Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

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Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Saracene on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:28 am

@californiagirl Well to be fair, there's nuance and ambiguity, and there's just plain obscuring of your character's motivations and emotions. With Rey, I think Rian veered towards the latter way too often. You can make things ambiguous, sure, but you also need to give the audience something solid or otherwise they simply won't be aware of the ambiguity in other instances. In TLJ, I think it all comes down to the fact that the audience never gets to find out Rey's vision. It's what motivates her most drastic action in the film, but it's left unexplained.

I don't know if it "backfired" though, I think they're very deliberately keeping things coy and obscured with Rey, to basically avoid two years of social justice hell.


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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:33 am

@Saracene wrote: What did Rey learn exactly through her failure to save Ben? The next movie might fill this in, but TLJ sure didn't.
@Saracene

Well, we do see her sad by the end - but it's very subtle and I agree...it wouldn't have hurt if they have shown her to be more..aware of the consequences of her impulsive decisions.

TLJ left us with the feeling all "wrong doing" was on Kylo's part- and I strongly disagree. Of course he was an a** after Rey left- I won't ever excuse his behavior on Crait. But "Rey of sunshine" hadn't really helped with her "oh, let's go to the Supremacy and force the guy who was groomed and abused by this creepy, manipulative monster since childhood into action and risking her and his life in the process."

What she did was completely reckless- and to be frank- very stupid. Kylo/Ben wasn't ready...he murdered his father only days ago still suffering the repercussions. If she had payed more attention it was clear from their Force Skype sessions that it won't be that simple.

I truly hope IX will show us Rey suffering some consequences for her mistakes.
I know you are skeptical (so am I) but maybe we will be surprised. Who knows Nope
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Saracene on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:00 am

@Night Huntress wrote:TLJ left us with the feeling all "wrong doing" was on Kylo's part- and I strongly disagree. Of course he was an a** after Rey left- I won't ever excuse his behavior on Crait. But "Rey of sunshine" hadn't really helped with her "oh, let's go to the Supremacy and force the guy who was groomed and abused by this creepy, manipulative monster since childhood into action and risking her and his life in the process."
@Night Huntress

Well to be fair, Rey wouldn't have had any knowledge of Kylo's past or dynamic with Snoke at all - that's just viewer knowledge. Characters don't get a bird's eye view of other characters. The only information she'd have is Luke briefly mentioning Snoke corrupting Ben's heart.

Plus, Rey thought she had the safety net of the vision she saw, and believed that as long as she went to Ben the future would work out, because she's seen it. She didn't rush to Supremacy just because.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by californiagirl on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:13 am

@Saracene By backfired I meant the more general sense that the Rey-Kylo dynamic is more than Rey good, defeats bad Kylo. Many viewers believe the opportunity to have any other kind of interaction beyond the most simplistic good v. evil is gone. It's clearly not what Rian intended his viewers to come away with, as I recall him saying he hoped the audience would come away knowing who to root for. Obviously the Resistance, but he means Kylo too. But now he's Supreme Leader and he tried to destroy Rey's pals, so that's all over now to a good chunk of the viewership.

I think Rian overestimated the audience's ability both for storytelling/character development and empathy. Many just see Kylo as the toxically masculine fascist that feminist warrior Rey will defeat and it will all be grand and empowering.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Saracene on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:37 am

@californiagirl I think I remember Rian saying that he hoped people would come away from TLJ thinking, I want to see more of this (Rey/Kylo) dynamic. So yeah I agree, it seems that most people instead came away from TLJ thinking, well this dynamic is over now.

I guess a lot of it is because we're in uncharted waters as far as redemption stories in SW go, and there isn't an easy formula to turn to. Like, at most people can speculate that maybe Kylo will have a last-minute turnaround in Episode IX, Vader-style. Even though TLJ very knowingly played with Vader-style redemption and subverted it instead.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Riri on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:42 am

I believe this is the cover of TLJ comic issue 5. Issue 2 is released today.


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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by thescavenger on Wed 23 May 2018, 2:25 am

@Riri wrote:I believe this is the cover of TLJ comic issue 5. Issue 2 is released today.

@Riri

Love this! They're almost portrayed as one person
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 23 May 2018, 4:29 am

@Saracene wrote:
Well to be fair, Rey wouldn't have had any knowledge of Kylo's past or dynamic with Snoke at all - that's just viewer knowledge. Characters don't get a bird's eye view of other characters. The only information she'd have is Luke briefly mentioning Snoke corrupting Ben's heart.

Plus, Rey thought she had the safety net of the vision she saw, and believed that as long as she went to Ben the future would work out, because she's seen it. She didn't rush to Supremacy just because.
@Saracene

hm, I disagree- I mean you're right she didn't know a lot of the dynamic between Ben & Snoke. But she witnessed Ben killing his own father days ago. She didn't know his motive, but doesn't take much to figure it out. She knew he stayed with Snoke after what happened with Luke for years doing bad things- so, I don't know...

As a Reylo I'm totally on her side- and I think what she saw must be very powerful and must have gone way beyond what happened in the throne room and them fighting together- but still...as a rational thinking person. I can't help but think what she did was very naiv and rushed.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Irina de France on Wed 23 May 2018, 6:34 am

@californiagirl wrote:
@Saracene wrote:@californiagirl I think the problem is that, if a character fails but suffers no consequence, failure doesn't really register all that much.

I know that comparisons to Luke are well-beaten at this point, but if you compare Luke in ESB to Rey in TLJ, the difference is pretty stark. Both characters abandon their teachers to rashly act on their own and fail to do what they intended to do. Luke gets his hand chopped off and has to be rescued by his friends. Rey comes in whooping and cheering on the Falcon and saves the Resistance by lifting rocks. What did Rey learn exactly through her failure to save Ben? The next movie might fill this in, but TLJ sure didn't.
@Saracene

This is where Rian's whole "I trust the audience to handle ambiguity" thing, if genuine, really backfired. I have a hard time believing he would think that, no matter how adorable and optimistic he is, given how hyper-aware of SW fandom he his. As we are all painfully aware of, mainstream SW fans and nuance on any level can frequently be polar opposite realities.

This is why the IX predictions all revolve around plot points and characterizations a 4-year-old would make: Rey good heroic Resistance person, Kylo bad evil Supreme Leader First Order person, Rey shut door on bad guy, good Rey beat bad Kylo.... I'm always shocked that people think they are genuinely clever when they espouse ideas like this.
@californiagirl

Rian reminds me of a French lit teacher who at the beginning of the year is so very eager to teach people all about Racine and his messed-up characters but ends up realizing a bunch of 15-16 year olds just don't care.

And this is why I changed my career course, lol.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Kylo Rey on Wed 23 May 2018, 9:32 am

Rian liked this



and uh... this




Rian, your Reylo is showing! I think he wants them to make out almost as much as we do!
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by rawpowah on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:05 am

Our fandom has such great fanart and talented artists <3. It's stuff like this which makes it all worth it. Smile
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by AhsokaTano on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:21 am

@ Riri
@ thescavenger

I also found this on tumblr just now from TLJ comic:



Which reinforces same idea that they are like one person and whilst it kind of gave me dark crystal vibes it also made me think of this - “ for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh “ .
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by AhsokaTano on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:25 am

@ kylo Rey
Omg Rian ! Smile
Also yes please give us a scene like this in episode 9 and more !
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Piper Maru on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:28 am

@AhsokaTano wrote:@ Riri
@ thescavenger

I also found this on tumblr just now from TLJ comic:



Which reinforces same idea that they are like one person and whilst it kind of gave me dark crystal vibes it also made me think of this - “ for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh “ .
@AhsokaTano

Ok, this is kind of a big deal? Because we always talked about Rey and Kylo being "new versions" of the Prime Jedi, but this is the first piece of media to make that connection explicit.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by nana7marie on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:51 am

@AhsokaTano wrote:@ Riri
@ thescavenger

I also found this on tumblr just now from TLJ comic:



Which reinforces same idea that they are like one person and whilst it kind of gave me dark crystal vibes it also made me think of this -  “ for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh “ .
@AhsokaTano
Is the Prime Jedi mosaic actually a part of the comic or has somebody on tumblr just posted it in such a way? Cos if it’s in the comic, then it’s indeed the first time canon materials explicitly refer to Reylo as the Prime Jedi.
Also, this Bible quote fits here perfectly - both in terms of lovers becoming one as well as both sides of the Force being in balance (as represented by the Prime Jedi mosaic irrespectively of whether or not the connection is directly referenced).
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Kessel on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:53 am

@Piper Maru Yeah, I agree. It’s quite on the nose in its comparison of Rey and Kylo to the Prime Jedi who was the first Jedi. Seems to support the notion of Rey and Kylo perhaps being the first of something new again, not to mention having a connection.

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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Riri on Wed 23 May 2018, 11:18 am

The Prime Jedi symbol isn't part of the comic, someone just made the edit based on the panel.

@nana7marie @AhsokaTano

The Reylo art that Rian liked is so flipping beautiful. Kind of reminds me of HanLeia in the ESB poster but just way more erotic.

I do wonder if they're going to continue down the erotic route for Reylo in IX, it'll definitely differentiate the sexually charged Reylo romance from the more innocent FinnRose romance.


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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by californiagirl on Wed 23 May 2018, 11:18 am

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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Riri on Wed 23 May 2018, 11:28 am

Nerdist rank the hottest Star Wars villains in this new article. Guess where our Supreme Leader is ranked Razz

https://nerdist.com/13-hottest-star-wars-villains-ranked/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=nerdist&utm_content=Ranking%20the%2013%20Hottest%20STAR%20WARS%20Villains%20of%20All%20Time

Ahh lots of content today!

Look at Luke's lightsaber!

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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Kylo Rey on Wed 23 May 2018, 11:38 am

@Riri

1. KYLO REN

Kylo Ren is one of the most dynamic characters in all of Star Wars. He simultaneously grapples with the intense pressure of his Skywalker and Solo genetics and the power of the Dark Side. Quite frankly, this level of internal conflict is intoxicating. The burden that accompanies feeling like you deserve to be a Chosen One, but constantly regretting your poor choices is appealing. He’s got a lot of issues, and he’s vulnerable: this is extremely hot.

Another aspect that makes Kylo the hottest Star Wars villain is how he mirrors Anakin. The possibility of a bad guy turning good is truly irresistible. Kylo can also monologue like no one’s business, and is extremely good at fighting, flying, using the Force, and teetering on the edge of existential despair for two full movies.

Kylo also has a killer combination of perfect hair and deep, soulful eyes. And he is swole. I mean, Rian Johnson said it best: Adam Driver looked good and he knew it. Kylo has a ripped bod and a soft spot for strong ladies. All I’m saying is if Kylo asked me to join him and rule the galaxy together, I would have said yes.

Kylo has a soft spot for the strong lady just like his daddy  Cool  That list really puts into perspective how low Star Wars is on the young, healthy (with all limbs attached), handsome villain. Anakin doesn't really count as he didn't start off as a villain and then suddenly slid into villainy in the space of one movie. Is it any wonder that the female fandom went gaga for Kylo?

Also, whaaaaat @ that Luke/Kylo thing.

Btw that Prime Jedi thing wan't actually in the comic but just an edit someone made on tumblr.


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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 23 May 2018, 11:38 am

@Riri wrote:Nerdist rank the hottest Star Wars villains in this new article. Guess where our Supreme Leader is ranked Razz

https://nerdist.com/13-hottest-star-wars-villains-ranked/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=nerdist&utm_content=Ranking%20the%2013%20Hottest%20STAR%20WARS%20Villains%20of%20All%20Time

Ahh lots of content today!

Look at Luke's lightsaber!
@Riri

Whoa! What the hell? Luke had a red crossguard saber at some point?!!! Where is this from? I don't know what the SW Annual is.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Kylo Rey on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:00 pm

Sleemo posted the next pages for context







This is so weird. Kylo models his saber on one his uncle found before he was even born, with an ancient design (which Luke destroyed). What a weird coincidence. I was under the impression that Kylo's lightsaber design was kind of rare. The comic gives the impression that the saber has some kind of weird, controlling mystical influence on Luke then he snapped out of it. This kind of lends credence to the theories that Snoke might have been reaching out and messing with Luke too. Interesting. And the first thing I thought of when seeing the saber crack was the lightsaber split in TLJ.
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by rawpowah on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:05 pm

Ok this red lightsaber thing is really messing with my head lol.

And of course Kylo should be #1 for hotness <3
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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by Kylo Rey on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:10 pm



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Re: Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Post by snufkin on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:14 pm

@Kessel wrote:@Piper Maru Yeah, I agree. It’s quite on the nose in its comparison of Rey and Kylo to the Prime Jedi who was the first Jedi. Seems to support the notion of Rey and Kylo perhaps being the first of something new again, not to mention having a connection.
@Kessel

His whole line is a meta statement about the two of them, “this is something new.” New way of being a Force user in that fictional universe, new way of depicting a LS and DS dynamic, new way for female lead, new way for a villain new way of doing a love story etc.

I’m the snob who doesn’t read Marvel or DC versus the more high brow and better drawn titles from Fantagraphics and Drawn & Quarterly. But the way that page blocks the scene showing each one in the others space and the split screen for the faces to PJ mosaic is excellent and very clear what it means.
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