The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Teo oswald on Tue 10 Apr 2018, 1:41 am

anti-hero indeed Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by nickandnora on Wed 11 Apr 2018, 4:17 pm

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I skimmed through the first few chapters of the TLJ novelization at the store the other day and saw something interesting in the chapter where Kylo is in Snoke's throneroom at the beginning. Kylo is thinking about his wounds, and he thinks about the one that Chewie gave him. He thinks to himself that it's a very serious wound and it would have been fatal if he hadn't used the Force to contain it (or something).

That's really, really interesting to me. I mentioned this months ago, but I do believe in that stomach wound we have a Chekhov's gun and the novelization kind of cements it; perhaps something will happen where Kylo is in a weakened state and whatever "spell" he has cast over the wound kind of comes undone and he ends up close to death because of it. Maybe this is what Rey has to save him from.

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by snufkin on Wed 11 Apr 2018, 10:07 pm

Forgot one more detail from the Art of book, the chapter about Leia is titled "The Unsinkable Leia Organa", nice shout out to the role Debbie Reynolds said she most identified with, The Unsinkable Molly Brown, and the song she sang from it, I Ain't Down Yet.

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by snufkin on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 11:25 am

My 3 week library loan is almost up for the Fry/Kogge novels and Art of book, so did one last speed read yesterday.

Finished a fast read of the Fry novel and one thing that I definitely noticed with the "being a hero versus being a leader" theme. the First Order is doomed. If Resistance 1.0 prior to decimation (thanks Poe) was a Cult of Personality, so is the First Order. Just a cult of multiple personalities, who all end up taking each other out. Fry makes a point of this by including exposition from Hux, Peavey, and Snoke's PoV sections. Imperial remnants retreated from Jakku to the Outer Rim/Unknown Regions, almost didn't survive (sounds like the Jamestown Colony), somehow Snoke became involved and helped them conquer the different planets in that region, while also taking out the existing leadership structure left over from Empires' End. And then at some point Hux takes out the last person, his father. But Hux is deluded in thinking he can be the best possible Supreme Leader because nobody respects him, especially officers like Peavey. Even without Ben taking out Snoke and then seizing power, it's going to be ugly on that side. Resistance? Eh, nearly everybody's dead and even if I think Poe's a s*** leader, they're obviously being set up as more cohesive. Though I still think Resistance 2.0 will be an underground/whisper network like Sanctuary in Logan's Run, the Human Project in Children of Men, and the Replicant Liberation Groups in Blade Runner/2049.

The Kogge Novel, when Luke blows up the hut he turns against Rey and there's a line about how she can't be trusted because she's "In League" with Kylo Ren! Which isn't in the Fry novel and certainly not in the movie other than Luke telling her to leave the island after he catches her in flagrante delicto with his nephew
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 12:03 pm

@snufkin wrote:My 3 week library loan is almost up for the Fry/Kogge novels and Art of book, so did one last speed read yesterday.

Finished a fast read of the Fry novel and one thing that I definitely noticed with the "being a hero versus being a leader" theme. the First Order is doomed. If Resistance 1.0 prior to decimation (thanks Poe) was a Cult of Personality, so is the First Order. Just a cult of multiple personalities, who all end up taking each other out. Fry makes a point of this by including exposition from Hux, Peavey, and Snoke's PoV sections. Imperial remnants retreated from Jakku to the Outer Rim/Unknown Regions, almost didn't survive (sounds like the Jamestown Colony), somehow Snoke became involved and helped them conquer the different planets in that region, while also taking out the existing leadership structure left over from Empires' End. And then at some point Hux takes out the last person, his father. But Hux is deluded in thinking he can be the best possible Supreme Leader because nobody respects him, especially officers like Peavey. Even without Ben taking out Snoke and then seizing power, it's going to be ugly on that side. Resistance? Eh, nearly everybody's dead and even if I think Poe's a s*** leader, they're obviously being set up as more cohesive. Though I still think Resistance 2.0 will be an underground/whisper network like Sanctuary in Logan's Run, the Human Project in Children of Men, and the Replicant Liberation Groups in Blade Runner/2049.

The Kogge Novel, when Luke blows up the hut he turns against Rey and there's a line about how she can't be trusted because she's "In League" with Kylo Ren! Which isn't in the Fry novel and certainly not in the movie other than Luke telling her to leave the island after he catches her in flagrante delicto with his nephew
@snufkin

FWIW, I feel like the Rebellion symbol in TLJ was set up to be like the mockingjay symbol from the Hunger Games series. So yeah, I still think Resistance 2.0 is going to be an underground/grass roots movement like you're saying.

And that's SUPER interesting about Luke in the Kogge novel. I wonder if that was reviewed by the storygroup (since Fry's novel apparently was this time)...because that could be some really interesting foreshadowing for when the Force bond blows up in Rey's face in IX.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 12:22 pm

I’m still not all the way through Legends of Luke, but these passages are interesting to me so far, in relation to TLJ... Have these already been brought up? I don’t remember seeing much discussion about this book, but I had a hard time keeping up here back in December.

Long:
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by snufkin on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 3:48 pm

@ISeeAnIsland "Giving people a symbol/hope to carry forward" was the whole point of Broom Boi (not "Rey will become a Jedi Kindergarten teacher with a classroom full of adorable lisping moppets in IX" per current fan conspiracy theory) as the ultimate legacy of Luke's return. And the Resistance is down to the size of a church choir after Poe's shenanigans, so they have to be an underground movement in IX. The point in TLJ is that Nu Rebels and Nu Empire both got obliterated. Especially because Fry makes a point of explaining that the Supremacy is the de facto capital and munitions operation for the First Order and Holdo just wiped it out. That's on par with Hux destroying Hosnian Prime.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Tex on Tue 17 Apr 2018, 4:57 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Ugh, ew. It still creeps me out to know that the novelization's scene with Snoke wiping away Kylo's tear seems to have been originally filmed. I guess it must have been something Fry pulled from Rian's script.





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Also look at Adam's slumped shoulders there. He's kneeling like a kid would with some abusive authority figure,  and not like the adult soldier that he actually  is.
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Oh my lord, I had not seen this. It just gave me the heebee jeebees. Yuck, so creepy. It's one thing to read it in Fry's novelization, but to see it was filmed Shocked L-puke
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by LadyHa on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 10:47 am

@Lamiller1390 wrote:Okay so I just finished the audiobook novelization which was AMAZING and there were two parts of the book that really stood out to me towards the end. The scene that I am sure was cut from the movie where Rey is standing over an unconscious Kylo after the saber breaks and the ship is shredded from that Holdo Action.... and at the very end where she very clearly severs the tie with Kylo. The force bond... whatever.

So in the first scene where Rey has a little self-reflection after leaving the Supremecy and leaving Kylo on the ship.

"Rey had learned that the Force was not her instrument - that, in fact, it was the other way around. Just as Kylo was its instrument, despite his determination to bend it to his will. He would learn that one day, she sensed - the Force wasn't finished with him. ANd that meant that Kylo's life was not hers to take, whatever future she thought she saw ahead of him. Rey would wait, however difficult that would be to do as the First Order warship descended on Crait. She would wait, and the future would unfold as the Force willed."

So here it seems she's reached a higher level of understanding about the force, that she no longer needs to rely on the connection with Kylo to understand or use the force. She is now... one with the force. Something that seemed to happen during the throne room battle. She also seems to have a decent idea of it's future plans for Kylo and has resigned herself to be patient and wait.

This passage gave me the impression that she will wait for him to be ready to accept his role. Right now he's not ready but he will be at some point and she will be waiting for him. This also gave me the impression that waiting for him would be difficult for her... is that because of her feelings for him... or will it just be hard due to the fact that during that waiting period things might get worse before they get better...

In conjunction with that, we have that last scene.

"He stared at Rey. She stared back at him, her gaze level and unafraid. There was no hatred in her eyes, as there once had been. But there was no compassion, either. A moment later Rey severed the connection, leaving Kylo alone in the gloom with his father's dice resting in the palm of his upraised hand."
@Lamiller1390

I also listened to the audiobook. The narrator is an amazing mimic!  So entertaining.  Well, his Rose voice is a little silly-sounding to me, but I love how he intones all the other characters. I also like the insight into Rey's understanding of the Force after the Throne Room. It clarifies her actions a little -she now feels that both she and Kylo are instruments of the Force, not the other way around. I too interpreted those sections as Rey hasn't given up on Kylo; she just realizes that she can't "force" him to change for her.

Another part that gives me chills is when Rey & Finn embrace.  Actually, Rey "fell into Finn's arms, sobbing and laughing at the same time. And held him tight." Rey & Finn are like 90% platonic, but the audiobook makes it sound kind of sexy - Especially because the scene changes right away to hearing Kylo's light saber sound and his husky jealous voice: "Rey", Kylo said, speaking her name like it was poison. "Your chosen one. Chosen over me." H-beating
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by tippytoo on Wed 16 May 2018, 11:24 pm

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I want to bring attention to the final scene in the Last Jedi novelization with Broom Boi (Temiri), his little girl-friend/crush Arashell Sar, and their cruel "boss" Bargwill Tomder. At first glance, the scene is a cute afterthought, thrown in for a lighthearted moment, but on second thought...

what if it's Jason Fry's subtle way of showing us Kylo Ren's thoughts about Rey during the Snoke scene? I think Jason Fry had mentioned on Twitter that he wasn't allowed to go into Kylo's inner thoughts for fear of giving too much away, but this children's scene could have been his way around that without being explicit. Here's a quote from the children's scene that can be directly paralleled with what we think is motivating Kylo:

"Temiri tried to keep his body between Bargwill and Arashell, hoping she'd notice what he was doing for her...Arashell didn't need his help anyway - she slipped nimbly past the stable keeper to safety."

Temiri thinks Arashell is capable, someone who doesn't need his help, but he chooses to give help anyway in hopes that she'll see how much he cares for her. Similarly, as of TLJ, Kylo sees Rey as an equal, someone who doesn't necessarily need his help, but he chooses to give help anyway against Snoke, and hopes his actions speak for his feelings.

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 17 May 2018, 10:06 am

@tippytoo wrote:I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I want to bring attention to the final scene in the Last Jedi novelization with Broom Boi (Temiri), his little girl-friend/crush Arashell Sar, and their cruel "boss" Bargwill Tomder. At first glance, the scene is a cute afterthought, thrown in for a lighthearted moment, but on second thought...

what if it's Jason Fry's subtle way of showing us Kylo Ren's thoughts about Rey during the Snoke scene? I think Jason Fry had mentioned on Twitter that he wasn't allowed to go into Kylo's inner thoughts for fear of giving too much away, but this children's scene could have been his way around that without being explicit. Here's a quote from the children's scene that can be directly paralleled with what we think is motivating Kylo:

"Temiri tried to keep his body between Bargwill and Arashell, hoping she'd notice what he was doing for her...Arashell didn't need his help anyway - she slipped nimbly past the stable keeper to safety."

Temiri thinks Arashell is capable, someone who doesn't need his help, but he chooses to give help anyway in hopes that she'll see how much he cares for her. Similarly, as of TLJ, Kylo sees Rey as an equal, someone who doesn't necessarily need his help, but he chooses to give help anyway against Snoke, and hopes his actions speak for his feelings.
@tippytoo

I must've skimmed the broomboi scene when I read it because I don't remember that part! Laughing Aww, I really hope you're right about an intentional parallel. Makes sense to me I love you
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 17 May 2018, 1:28 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@tippytoo wrote:I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I want to bring attention to the final scene in the Last Jedi novelization with Broom Boi (Temiri), his little girl-friend/crush Arashell Sar, and their cruel "boss" Bargwill Tomder. At first glance, the scene is a cute afterthought, thrown in for a lighthearted moment, but on second thought...

what if it's Jason Fry's subtle way of showing us Kylo Ren's thoughts about Rey during the Snoke scene? I think Jason Fry had mentioned on Twitter that he wasn't allowed to go into Kylo's inner thoughts for fear of giving too much away, but this children's scene could have been his way around that without being explicit. Here's a quote from the children's scene that can be directly paralleled with what we think is motivating Kylo:

"Temiri tried to keep his body between Bargwill and Arashell, hoping she'd notice what he was doing for her...Arashell didn't need his help anyway - she slipped nimbly past the stable keeper to safety."

Temiri thinks Arashell is capable, someone who doesn't need his help, but he chooses to give help anyway in hopes that she'll see how much he cares for her. Similarly, as of TLJ, Kylo sees Rey as an equal, someone who doesn't necessarily need his help, but he chooses to give help anyway against Snoke, and hopes his actions speak for his feelings.
@tippytoo

I must've skimmed the broomboi scene when I read it because I don't remember that part! Laughing Aww, I really hope you're right about an intentional parallel. Makes sense to me I love you
@Cowgirlsamurai

I haven't finished the novelization, but I know that I immediately thought that the three kids were supposed to symbolize the once innocent Rey, Finn and Ben.  BroomBoi is not Poe. Force sensitive BroomBoi is the stand-in for child Ben IMO. Damaged to a certain extent, but not yet ripped apart like Ben was with Luke and Snoke. I think the three kids represents a chance that the world for those three kids might be better than the one Ben, Rey and Finn grew up in, probably in large part due to the future actions of Ben, Rey and Finn.

So I think analysis of Protective-for-the-sake-of-Affection-and -not-dismissal-or-underestimation Broomboi is spot on.


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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 17 May 2018, 1:35 pm

@SoloSideCousin

Wow. The stable kids mean so much more to me now cheers If that was intentional by Rian, then he's brilliant, IMO. Either way, I love it Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by californiagirl on Thu 31 May 2018, 1:16 am

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 11:05 am

[Mod note: moved to Shakespeare thread]
Hey all , didn’t know where to post this :


Can’t wait - will probably have more revelations like the force awakens one did . Still remember rey’s glorious line to kylo “ come kylo Ren and feel the light of rey “. The whole play was glorious to be honest and can’t wait for this one .  Smile


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TLJ Shakespeare

Post by californiagirl on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm

@AhsokaTano wrote:Hey all , didn’t know where to post this :


Can’t wait - will probably have more revelations like the force awakens one did . Still remember rey’s glorious line to kylo “ come kylo Ren and feel the light of rey “. The whole play was glorious to be honest and can’t wait for this one .  Smile
@AhsokaTano

There's this thread http://www.reyloskyforum.net/t730-the-last-jedi-and-the-shakespeare-novelizations. There's a couple of comics-related things in there too, though most of the comic stuff ended up here. It's kind of the place for Various Print Adaptations of The Last Jedi.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 12:36 pm

@ californiagirl @ Darth Rowan
Thanks for putting post in right thread - wasn’t sure where to put it .Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by EchoBase on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 2:49 pm

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 3:38 pm

@EchoBase

Leia: "I sense within my son, my boy, my Ben....O son, hear me - thy mother calls to thee."

Kylo: "Her sorrow and her love in equal measure...Can I set fire upon the woman who did give me life, did raise me as a child?... I shall not do it, cannot. Thus, I fail."  Cry  Cry

First Reylo ForceBond

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by rawpowah on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 3:42 pm

"Mine anger smoulders fiercely, whilst the man is full of academic interest” Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 3:55 pm

I don’t understand what is this ?
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by MrsWindu on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 4:18 pm

@Kylo Rey Ohhh boy I would love to see this performed some day. It brings a smile to my face to hear phrases like ‘strange unbidden apparition’ and ‘All I can see is thou, and thou alone..’ I must pre-order this book in a trice
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by rawpowah on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 5:09 pm

@giaciak2 wrote:I don’t understand what is this ?
@giaciak2

Shakespeare adaptations of the movie.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by giaciak2 on Wed 27 Jun 2018, 4:42 am

Oh Thank you very much for your answer <3 @rawpowah

Excuse my ignorance. But is this book official? How do some users have it?

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by AhsokaTano on Wed 27 Jun 2018, 5:07 am

@giaciak2
As far as I know all the Shakespeare Star Wars saga plays are official since they work off the script and build on it like the novels but obviously don’t precede the films (there are hidden Easter eggs in there too). It’s not released till 9th/10th July but excerpts have been released . The force awakens one was amazing . The language was beautiful, witty ,emotional and funny (like Shakespeare)and you had soliloquys/monologues as to what the characters were feeling including Kylo so you got different points of view . I definitely plan to read it as it builds on what we know and am keen to see what more it reveals .
You should be able to get it on amazon.
Here is a bit of info :
http://www.quirkbooks.com/book/william-shakespeares-jedi-last#

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/William_Shakespeare%27s_Jedi_the_Last
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