Fan Reception of the Sequel Trilogy

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Post by snufkin on Fri 15 Feb 2019, 11:23 pm

One of the folks whose childhood was  the OT and getting re-interested as an adult makes me think how lucky I was to be a kid, ignorant of fandom culture and especially one that's built up a 40 year cargo cult of world building and "is it canon?" Not a secret around these parts, but I'm a huge fan of Kasdan's writing, especially having been taken to nearly every movie (yes even Body Heat) as a kid by the older teenaged cinephile siblings who were babysitting me during that time. The best parts of the ST (and Solo is an appendix story) is that the original characters are allowed to age, fail, and confront their lives against the idealism of their youth. Which is the entire premise of The Big Chill -- I just re-watched that again, for the first time as an adult, and it's a bookend to the OT3 characters in the ST, coming to terms with who they were as young and idealistic versus where life took them. Luke is definitely a bit like William Hurt's character, the promising star who burned out and is now rebelling.  I also think it's f**king brilliant that the whole Ache-to part of the story was really about two people, Rey and Luke, who were carrying around a secret shame about a personal family betrayal, where it comes out through being forced to interact with somebody who's their exact parallel. Luke did to Ben as his adult caretaker what Rey's parents did to her. The Force is part of the larger picture, but it's a story about family relationships and trauma being confronted and reconciled (which is also what I always said the Force Back is ultimately about, what happened to these two families).

So personally, I loved how Kasdan was able to bring these characters full circle.  And hearing the Story Group admit, 2 years after we'd discussed it here, that he was behind the Interogation Scene and setting up the Force Bond/they've seen each other's deepest vulnerabilities, was thrilling. I always knew he had to have written it.  And what they've done with those two characters and their relationship has been brilliant, which brought me back into following Star Wars. Or at least the ST. The reason why the OT worked and was so iconic was when you had people like Gloria Katz, Kasdan, Marcia Lucas, Leigh Brackett, and Gary Kurtz giving their input. The fact that you have multiple talented people (both Rian Johnson & JJ were favorites of mine and another reason why my interest re-sparked) involved. And Solo isn't a stand alone or a pre-quel, it's an appendix about how his experiences as a young man determine his actions in TFA
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 17 Feb 2019, 3:04 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@fuhry wrote:@spacebaby45678 As a fellow Rey Kenobi enthusiast, I was also disappointed in the film for other reasons, especially because I don't think that TLJ closed the door on RK completely.  

Here's my take after some time has passed:

I think that Rian didn't fully accept what J.J. had left him.  He wanted to create new secondary characters so he marginalized the ones from TFA (Hux, Phasma, Maz).  Maz was such a wonderful character and her cameo in TLJ was a bummer.  I thought there was great potential for development of a rivalry/hatred between Finn and Phasma and he short-armed that.  J.J. left him a huge mystery box in Rey's origin and the way he handled it was almost resentful.  Holdo seemed like a character that was created by Rian so he could find a part for Laura Dern.

I actually liked the way he handled the Reylo part, and I actually liked the Canto Bight sequence, although I felt like it was a little implausible jammed into the middle of the chasedown.  I seem to be the only person in the world that didn't mind the Leia Poppins part.  I also didn't mind the portrayal of Luke as disgruntled and demoralized.  

But I think Rian jammed too much story into too little space and that affected pacing and character development.   It also made Luke's arc from angry old man to savior less convincing.   I feel that the movie had some similarities to ROTJ in feel.  A little too goofy for my tastes, with some great dramatic moments thrown in.  So I don't think it was terrible.  But I loved Rey in TFA, she just seemed like part of the scenery in TLJ.  And while I thought Han's sendoff was brilliant in TFA, I found Luke's sendoff lacking.

All that said, I don't think the ST story has been irreparably harmed .  I like where we find ourselves in the story.  I'm hoping J.J. gives me that magic feeling again.  Though I can't for the life of me fathom why they couldn't get Kasdan back on script duty.  
@fuhry

I agree completely with you on  Hux, Phasma & Maz... I am extremely disappointed in Hux, Domnhall nailed the FO speech and I consider it a classic and Disney uses it in it's Galactic Nights presentation. Now that speech and Hux have been undermined by his slapstick treatment by both Snoke & Kylo. JJ will probably kill him off in the first act of EP9. The Phasma Finn showdown should have come in EP9, it was one episode too early. Maz went from standing and fighting them to not caring. It is so strange. TLJ feels disjointed to me. Rian def had his own strong ideas and opinions on TFA, and his own personal likes and dislikes come through crystal clear.

Angry old man Luke is a major sticking point with me, and even as I understand that Skywalkers are moody and mutable ( watery) Luke was always an optimist. And, as he is representative of the Age of Pisces... Pisces is an age of FAITH. Faith is in essence OPTIMISM. That even RJ as he is writing this, throwing in a ton of Piscean imagery for Luke, Fishes, Fish Nuns & Vesica Pisces, he is ignoring. I can not reconcile, it does not compute with me. Luke shows a little faith in the end when he tells Leia no one is ever truly gone. Now how did he forget this and become a curmudgeon?  TLJ contradicts itself here and in other places. The only thing I can think is that RJ does not "get" the role "faith" i.e.[/b] "optimism" plays in Christianity/GFFA/Piscean Age? The main verse RJ should have kept as Luke's byline from the new testament ( as read at my own mother's funeral)

2 Timothy 4:7  

"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith"

Luke is everything in contradiction to the above verse. Unacceptable.

Ultimately, despite TLJ, I am optimistic that EP9 will deliver a satisfying end to the Saga because I am a died in the wool optimist as Luke should have stayed despite his failure with Kylo.

@spacebaby45678

From Time today, a quote from director  Guillermo Del Toro, it is a much better-worded statement of what I was trying to communicate.  

Optimism is radical. It is the hard choice, the brave choice. And it is, it seems to me, most needed now, in the face of despair—just as a car is most useful when you have a distance to close. Otherwise it is a large, unmovable object parked in the garage.

These days, the safest way for someone to appear intelligent is being skeptical by default. We seem sophisticated when we say “we don’t believe” and disingenuous when we say “we do.”

History and fable have both proven that nothing is ever entirely lost. David can take Goliath. A beach in Normandy can turn the tide of war. Bravery can topple the powerful. These facts are often seen as exceptional, but they are not. Every day, we all become the balance of our choices—choices between love and fear, belief or despair. No hope is ever too small.

Optimism is our instinct to inhale while suffocating. Our need to declare what “needs to be” in the face of what is. Optimism is not uncool; it is rebellious and daring and vital.


http://time.com/5520554/guillermo-del-toro-radical-optimism/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter&utm_campaign=time&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=socialflowtw

Fan Reception of the Sequel Trilogy - Page 2 200

I co-sign every word out of Del Toro and Lucas delivered this message of hope and optimism during one of America's darkest times.  Nihilism is not the language of Star Wars, it should never have been allowed to drop out of Luke's mouth but it is all spilled green milk now.  Looking forward to JJ righting the ship and ending this Saga on an up note of Love...

1 Corinthians 13:7
Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
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