Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by giaciak2 on Tue 16 Apr - 9:09

@FrolickingFizzgig What does mean FAF? (I don't know this word... I'm sorry)


*

However, there are too many speculations about time travel. I have always thought that many speculations are put out voluntarily by the producer himself to see the fandom's reaction.

As much as I love complicated plots, it's a year that I read to understand something between what is canon or not. What would the person who only saw films at the cinema understand?

My hypothesis is that they have some leeway in rewinding the film to leave something open based on audience's responses. Moreover, they have profit if we love the film.

Disney does not make niche films, and must be sure that everyone likes the ending. I think the ending will be Reylo and Ben Solo will be redeemed because this argument is forbidden to the actors and because if I look around, after 4 years of solitude, I see Reylo tick like mushrooms after a rainy day ...
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Post by special_cases on Tue 16 Apr - 9:09

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So FAF. It has a lot of red-flags. The majority of the bullets are vague and meaningless: "there's a JJ level twist (in the crawl??... is the crawl even written yet?), "some" popular rumours are true (lol?), Snoke is dead (k?). It's also all worded and formatted in a really classic (fake) leak style, but the biggest red flag is the double-edged insistence that Rebels and the Legends timeline are going to flow into IX, LOL. And through inter-dimensional travel of all things. Plus Luke is Darth Bane? Who tf is Darth Bane? Nobody cares. How the heck do you explain this to the GA? They know who Palpatine is because he has been the major villain throughout more than half the franchise.

Yeah, this is getting a big FAF from me.
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The first leaker was answering questions. There are two leakers here.
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Post by Forsythia on Tue 16 Apr - 9:18

Sizzlestump

Anon

Another insider here, this is not a larp.
The crawl pretty much reveals that Palpatine is Anakin's father.
BUT.
It does so in a non-direct way, by stating that he lives through his ancestors, Leia and Kylo.
There's also a titbit plot about Leia refusing the Jedi training because she knew Palpatine lived inside her head in a way, it's like a DNA memory but with The Force.

Leia refuses Jedi training because of her ancestors, but then she sends her son to Jedi training? Makes total sense... Rolling Eyes
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Post by Teo oswald on Tue 16 Apr - 9:39

from us in Italy still nothing, maybe it will be l'ascesa degli Skywalker
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Post by special_cases on Tue 16 Apr - 9:56

@Forsythia wrote:
Sizzlestump

Anon

Another insider here, this is not a larp.
The crawl pretty much reveals that Palpatine is Anakin's father.
BUT.
It does so in a non-direct way, by stating that he lives through his ancestors, Leia and Kylo.
There's also a titbit plot about Leia refusing the Jedi training because she knew Palpatine lived inside her head in a way, it's like a DNA memory but with The Force.

Leia refuses Jedi training because of her ancestors, but then she sends her son to Jedi training? Makes total sense... Rolling Eyes
@Forsythia

Well, it seems that Leia send Ben to Luke like it was her last hope. Leia didn't have problems like Ben and maybe it was the one way available.

It's curious that both leaks mention Leia's training.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 16 Apr - 10:23

I would be half throwing popcorn /half so disappointed if that were the case. Because while Star Wars owes a huge thematic/narrative debt to Dune and the production design for Alejandro Jodorowsky's scrapped adaption did make it to the original film, that's straight up turning the Emperor into Baron Harkonnen, Leia into Lady Jessica (and the Dune character who influenced Leia is Princess Irulen, especially in the original film's novel adaptation) and Ben into both Paul and Alia. If I wanted that story, I can go re-read the novel or watch any of the adaptions.
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Post by LadyGaufrette on Tue 16 Apr - 10:47

In France Ascension has also a more religious meaning too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entering_heaven_alive
And more particularly, the Ascension of Jesus. I bring that up because Anakin already has been compared to Jesus with his birth by the Force, the concept similar to God in SW universe.

This title makes me believe there will be a double meaning like with RoTJ and concern both Kylo and Anakin.
Kylo's rise will be him becoming an ally/hero in the story and finding again the root of his Skywalker family.
Anakin's rise would be him finally completing his purpose with the final death of Palpatine, and reach a superior plane in the Force to find peace.
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 16 Apr - 11:21

Something about the word 'ascension' makes me think even more that 'Skywalker' will come to mean more than just a family name.
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Post by rawpowah on Tue 16 Apr - 11:23

It's Ascension in my country as well. But that's pretty much the only suitable translation for "rise".
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 16 Apr - 11:24

@snufkin wrote:I would be half throwing popcorn /half so disappointed if that were the case. Because while Star Wars owes a huge thematic/narrative debt to Dune and the production design for Alejandro Jodorowsky's scrapped adaption did make it to the original film, that's straight up turning the Emperor into Baron Harkonnen, Leia into Lady Jessica (and the Dune character who influenced Leia is Princess Irulen, especially in the original film's novel adaptation) and Ben into both Paul and Alia. If I wanted that story, I can go re-read the novel or watch any of the adaptions.
@snufkin

As a Dunie myself, I always thought this element existed in GFFA especially after the opera scene with Anakin and Palpy. The script for ROTS was written with Palpy saying I am your father... but later redacted by GL but all the visuals and symbols remain intact. So it is sub-textual. However, with new spoiler from Master & Apprentice I think LF is cleaning this old scenario up and going back to the old fashioned Virgin Birth.

And now to add to this complication why would they make Rey connected to or related to Palpatine in anyway? It will again be a Alia/Paul but just with Rey this time and then if Rey & Ben have children what has changed?
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Post by californiagirl on Tue 16 Apr - 11:38

98% of the audience doesn't know who Darth Bane is. Most of what's written about him is in Legends, only alluded to a little in current canon. They probably don't remember Plagueis, who never appeared onscreen because he was dead long ago, and was only briefly invoked in one movie. Palpatine at least people remember, though not directly mentioning him for two movies is a little odd.

I just hope it doesn't rely on canon homework for the audience, but more on the other movies he's been in that people have actually seen, because at the end of the day, SW is meant for the broadest possible audience. JJ, KK, the cast, and all the advertising has emphasized the whole 9-part saga and how they all tie in to TROS. There's no need to drag even more sources into the mix.

I do wonder what JJ meant in that clip when he said there's more to Rey's background, but it is certainly not that she's a Skywalker or Solo... until she marries into it.  Smile Nor do I think she's a virgin birth. Maybe he's alluding to force things/her force parallels with Kylo.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Tue 16 Apr - 11:39

@rawpowah wrote:It's Ascension in my country as well. But that's pretty much the only suitable translation for "rise".
@rawpowah
Same. I haven't seen anything here, but I have a hard time thinking of another word to translate "rise" apart from "ascenso" (=ascension), but it doesn't fit very well in my opinion  Laughing . It will probably be "El Ascenso de Skywalker"
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Post by SkyStar on Tue 16 Apr - 11:55

@special_cases dunno, the first one seems possible, but then it says that the images look like Thor Ragnarok when now they seem to have western vibes.

I think I am allergic to leaks like"the end of the movie will be controversial because it's not actually an ending" etc. "you guys won't believe this" "its something very JJ" "there is an emotional scene where...". Its like its written by the same person all over again. Maybe it is.

And the last leak is the most unbelievable - my mind shuts up at Bane etc. IMO SW movies just aren't Marvel in that they aren't based in the comics but other way around. I think TLJ was clear with it. Maybe developing characters in print before movies makes them more flashed out, but it seems that SW sticks to creating new characters or featuring the ones that movie only audiences are familiar with.
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Post by special_cases on Tue 16 Apr - 12:20

@SkyStar wrote:@special_cases dunno, the first one seems possible, but then it says that the images look like Thor Ragnarok when now they seem to have western vibes.

I think I am allergic to leaks like"the end of the movie will be controversial because it's not actually an ending" etc. "you guys won't believe this" "its something very JJ" "there is an emotional scene where...". Its like its written by the same person all over again. Maybe it is.

And the last leak is the most unbelievable - my mind shuts up at Bane etc. IMO SW movies just aren't Marvel in that they aren't based in the comics but other way around. I think TLJ was clear with it. Maybe developing characters in print before movies makes them more flashed out, but it seems that SW sticks to creating new characters or featuring the ones that movie only audiences are familiar with.
@SkyStar

The thing with Bane can be misdirection. But the thing with Palpatine that Ian is very downplaying his role in the film. Like he is trying to hint that he won't be there for long. I find it strange because JJ said that there is the greatest evil. Anyway, it's hard to tell on this stage.

When I was researcing Darth Bane, I found that his apprentice was called Zannah and her nickname was "Rain". LOL
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Post by Atenais on Tue 16 Apr - 13:42

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:So FAF. It has a lot of red-flags. The majority of the bullets are vague and meaningless: "there's a JJ level twist (in the crawl??... is the crawl even written yet?), "some" popular rumours are true (lol?), Snoke is dead (k?). It's also all worded and formatted in a really classic (fake) leak style, but the biggest red flag is the double-edged insistence that Rebels and the Legends timeline are going to flow into IX, LOL. And through inter-dimensional travel of all things. Plus Luke is Darth Bane? Who tf is Darth Bane? Nobody cares. How the heck do you explain this to the GA? They know who Palpatine is because he has been the major villain throughout more than half the franchise.

Yeah, this is getting a big FAF from me.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm with you. It's too confusing a plot to us, who keep analyzing the story consistently, imagine to GA.
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 16 Apr - 13:54

I really don't know why some fans think this movie is going to delve so much into expanded universe stuff. It's for a general audience, and they're not going to bog down the storyline trying to explain a bunch of little-known characters, stories, and concepts. Palpatine is straightforward, we remember him, and if we don't it wouldn't take too much time to remind us of who he is. Everything else is getting way too complicated. Some of the big themes of adjacent materials are likely going to come into play, but not in nitty gritty specifics.
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Post by nana7marie on Tue 16 Apr - 14:15

Okay guys, there’re a lot of messages I wanna reply to, both ancient lol! and recent ones, so it’ll take a while but I just wanted to post a few things I believe haven’t been shared here yet or at least I don’t remember seeing them despite having read the whole thread.
1. Nothin new for us but Leia 99% dies in TRoS
In this interview with IGN Oscar Isaac says:
He takes those [lessons] on. Where we start in Episode IX is, they’re decimated, there isn’t much of a Resistance to even lead, so I think what they’re trying to do is find allies, find anybody they can that can help them, help their cause - it just feels like it’s totally lost. As the film goes on, I think you start to see him really grapple with not only the lack of leadership - I mean, Leia is gone - but also, how do you be a leader when there doesn’t seem to be anybody to lead?
Whereas in this one with Extra TV he mentions the characters are mourning together:

2. Regarding the opening scene from the teaser, where Rey watches Kylo’s ship approaching and jumps onto/towards it, Daisy Ridley said in an interview shared on Twitter:
[...] in that moment was really hard because the glare was so bright that I was trying to give emotion and I was also trying to not do that [squints eyes] like ‘where is he coming from?’ [...]
I mean for me and I’m sure for you too it’s obvious Rey’s emotional in that scene but it’s nice to hear it from the actress portraying the character Very Happy
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Post by snufkin on Tue 16 Apr - 14:17

@spacebaby45678 The funny thing is that one of the first 'grownup books' I read was the original ADF tie-in novel after seeing the original movie. Then years later when I finally read Dune and they have the 'notes' from Princess Irulen my first thought was, "this is ilke Star Wars and the in-universe narration/notes from Princess Leia in the tie-in novel." Which is how I realized that Dune was a central influence and that part of the inspiration for Leia was Princess Irulen, diplomat/spy/scholar. Which guess you could say that's also Leia because she chose that instead of becoming a Jedi, which is like being a Bene Gesserit.  And I agree, there's not going to be a deep dive into the expanded universe and lore in the movie. But they're going to sell the crap out of books and comics which dig into it because people will buy it.

Otherwise dunno how/if they'll tie Rey into it. We did used to joke about how Kylo probably thinks she's the Chani to his Paul Atreides. It's going to be even moreconfusing now that Oscar Isaac is playing Duke Leto in the new adaption. As for Rey, maybe they can do something about how her parents scavenged a piece of junk on Jakku which was tied to the Observatory and the Imperial Remnants Contingency Plan. Which they have no idea what it is and its connection to the bad guys, but that's why they gave her to Unkar and ended up dead? It'd at least be something of a softening to the blow about being sold for drinking money and tie it together with the history Jakku has with the Empire and Galactic Civil War.
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Post by californiagirl on Tue 16 Apr - 14:29

This movie sounds more like they're after a McGuffin, not that they already have it and other people are chasing them for it. Wasn't the mcguffin supposed to change over the course of the story? It doesn't sound as straightforward as a map to a person.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 16 Apr - 14:54

@snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 The funny thing is that one of the first 'grownup books' I read was the original ADF tie-in novel after seeing the original movie. Then years later when I finally read Dune and they have the 'notes' from Princess Irulen my first thought was, "this is ilke Star Wars and the in-universe narration/notes from Princess Leia in the tie-in novel." Which is how I realized that Dune was a central influence and that part of the inspiration for Leia was Princess Irulen, diplomat/spy/scholar. Which guess you could say that's also Leia because she chose that instead of becoming a Jedi, which is like being a Bene Gesserit.  And I agree, there's not going to be a deep dive into the expanded universe and lore in the movie. But they're going to sell the crap out of books and comics which dig into it because people will buy it.

Otherwise dunno how/if they'll tie Rey into it. We did used to joke about how Kylo probably thinks she's the Chani to his Paul Atreides. It's going to be even moreconfusing now that Oscar Isaac is playing Duke Leto in the new adaption. As for Rey, maybe they can do something about how her parents scavenged a piece of junk on Jakku which was tied to the Observatory and the Imperial Remnants Contingency Plan. Which they have no idea what it is and its connection to the bad guys, but that's why they gave her to Unkar and ended up dead? It'd at least be something of a softening to the blow about being sold for drinking money and tie it together with the history Jakku has with the Empire and Galactic Civil War.
@snufkin

Yes, I am still of the opinion that Kylo had visions of Rey before hand just like Paul did Chani. And it is because of Kylo's parallels with Paul that I always thought he would be Renperor... Aha! Even Leia's name is a shortened Alia they are pronounced the same. .

To me it is clear. The Skywalkers are tied to Palpatine in an intimate (Baron Harkonnen) way thus consequently tying Rey to Palpatine is redundant unless Rey herself is a Skywalker (of course she isnt' Evil or Very Mad ) However, Paul marries Princess Irulan daughter of the Emperor and Chani is concubine
So maybe that is the way it goes, but I don't think so. The Saga is about the Skywalkers but it is also about the Twin Hero's described by Jung and in that way, it is Obi Wan who is the original twin hero to Anakin and it is alluded to his unusual connection to the living force in Master & Apprentice. We are getting closer to the ultimate answer so again we shall see.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 16 Apr - 15:06

@spacebaby45678 Yeah I wouldn't like it if they did a full Chani to Rey (I doubt it) because what Lady Jessica says to Chani about Paul's marriage is some straight up misogynistic s**t. Plus Leia would never talk this way about any woman or stand by a situation which devalued Rey. It's probably why I've always sympathized with Irulen the most, because people (other women!) are so terrible to her when she's one of the smartest characters,

See that princess standing there, so haughty and confident. They say she has pretensions of a literary nature. Let us hope she finds solace in such things; she'll have little else ... Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine — never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine—history will call us wives.

I also forget about this Irulen quote in looking up the other one, which fits the ST theme:

If history teaches us anything, it is simply this: every revolution carries within it the seeds of its own destruction. And empires that rise, will one day fall.

RE: the MacGuffin, I am placing my bet that both Lando and the remnants of the Death Star he took out appearing in the trailer is not a coincidence. That final shot (which is stunning IMO) is the result of his heroics in the previous war. Same Death Star where the Emperor faced off against Luke and Vader chose love over power and made his return to the Light. But MacGuffin is always a pretext - the bad guys spent 2 movies chasing after Rey for a map when we know the point was for her to meet/get to know Ben and for the threads of a broken family to mend/come back together.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 16 Apr - 15:22

@snufkin wrote:@spacebaby45678 Yeah I wouldn't like it if they did a full Chani to Rey (I doubt it) because what Lady Jessica says to Chani about Paul's marriage is some straight up misogynistic s**t. Plus Leia would never talk this way about any woman or stand by a situation which devalued Rey

See that princess standing there, so haughty and confident. They say she has pretensions of a literary nature. Let us hope she finds solace in such things; she'll have little else ... Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine — never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine—history will call us wives.

I did forget about this quote in looking up the other one (because the above quote is #1 why my sympathies are always with Irulen) and forget about this line from Irulen, which fits the ST theme:

If history teaches us anything, it is simply this: every revolution carries within it the seeds of its own destruction. And empires that rise, will one day fall.

RE: the MacGuffin, I am placing my bet that both Lando and the remnants of the Death Star he took out appearing in the trailer is not a coincidence. That final shot is the result of his heroics in the previous war. Same Death Star where the Emperor faced off against Luke and Vader chose love over power and made his return to the Light.
@snufkin

Well Jessica had to stick up for the home team, but it her Harkonnen blood that she does not know that she has that ends with the right mix to birth the Kwisatz Haderach, if a Kenobi had a child with a Skywalker, that child would be the GFFA equivelant of the Kwisatz Haderach. Combining the feminine/masculine/darkness/light and able to control it.

By the way if the parallels don't end there, right now Denis, and crew including Josh Brolin & Jason Mamoa are out in the same location as TROS in Jordan shooting Dune Bawawah! I have faith that Denis will pull this through
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Post by snufkin on Tue 16 Apr - 15:35

@spacebaby45678 LOL it's the same location as Lawrence of Arabia and it just occurred to me that the opening shot in the teaser very much matches Prince Ali's introduction on horseback from the horizon. E.G., the antagonistic character Lawrence initially despise for his brutality but eventually becomes his ally/trusted confidante. It suddenly hit me the plot of that movie (which JJ mentioned outright in the Celebration panel) is about a disparate group of warring factions coming together to face a mutual threat.
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Post by Teo oswald on Tue 16 Apr - 15:49

interesting titles do you notice something? Smile

Star wars revenge of the sith

Star wars return of the Jedi

Star wars the rise of Skywalker

a new order? a new academy? who knows
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Post by special_cases on Tue 16 Apr - 15:58

@ZioRen wrote:I really don't know why some fans think this movie is going to delve so much into expanded universe stuff. It's for a general audience, and they're not going to bog down the storyline trying to explain a bunch of little-known characters, stories, and concepts. Palpatine is straightforward, we remember him, and if we don't it wouldn't take too much time to remind us of who he is. Everything else is getting way too complicated. Some of the big themes of adjacent materials are likely going to come into play, but not in nitty gritty specifics.
@ZioRen

If you're talking about leak I found (I'm not sure) then it doesn't have a lot of delving into explanded universe. It's just has a new character. I don't think it implies that there will a lot of exposition. I doubt 50% of that leak is real but it's pretty much laconic summary of villains and MacGuffin plot.
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