Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by thescavenger on Tue 14 May 2019, 7:20 pm

@californiagirl wrote:John Williams already writing, and he loves TROS!

“Williams beams when he talks about watching an early cut of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, which will bring the nine-film space saga to an end this Christmas. He likes what he has seen “very much” and has so far written about 25 minutes of score in about a month.”

From https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/05/john-williams-liked-early-cut-of-the-rise-of-skywalker-very-much-already-wrote-25-minutes-of-the-films-score.html, which in turn came from The Times, you just need a subscription to see it there.
@californiagirl

Yeah right, that's 25 minutes of Across the Stars 2.0 for ya!
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Post by Lovely_Rose on Thu 16 May 2019, 2:17 am

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/bp51lk/msw_posts_new_artistic_depiction_of_knights_of_ren/

Art of what the Knights of Ren supposedly look like. Guessing that's Matt Smith in the middle. They're all men too apparently.

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Post by AhsokaTano on Thu 16 May 2019, 9:23 am

Thanks @Lovely_Rose
Yeah makes perfect sense as inversion of Padmé ‘s handmaidens and kylo holding on to his masculinity for dear life because he doesn’t want to move on. He’s clinging on to his soul for dear life and his essence and does not want to let in the feminine which can let him move on and be reborn. This film is gonna destroy me and Adam will be amazing. Gonna post something in predictions.
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Post by DarthRen on Thu 16 May 2019, 10:19 am

@Lovely_Rose wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/bp51lk/msw_posts_new_artistic_depiction_of_knights_of_ren/

Art of what the Knights of Ren supposedly look like. Guessing that's Matt Smith in the middle. They're all men too apparently.
@Lovely_Rose

Glad it's not a female harem for Kylo or whatever was that faf leak.

I like this sort of primitive, medieval style looks on them. Goes back to Kasdan and JJ referencing Akira Kurosawa Seven Samurai. I've always been against any of Knights of Ren to have a lightsaber or force powers to the extent of Kylo. They might know a few things but largely not that good at it. He is their leader as of now, so he should be above them in terms of skills and knowledge. Obviously, that might change if Palpatine + artifacts + possession comes into play.

Honestly, pretty hyped to see them in action, actually talking (unlike Praetorian Guards) and affecting the story in a meaningful way. They've been on some important missions and hoping their part is pretty good for TORS and it should be as JJ invented them.
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 16 May 2019, 11:31 am

@Lovely_Rose wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/bp51lk/msw_posts_new_artistic_depiction_of_knights_of_ren/

Art of what the Knights of Ren supposedly look like. Guessing that's Matt Smith in the middle. They're all men too apparently.
@Lovely_Rose

Thanks for sharing Lovely Rose!
I see Star Wars as having a bit of a history of pulling a surprise female character out of a hat - the character takes off their mask and... whooooo the audience is to be ShoCkEd!! Shocked
Leia did this in ROTJ, the bounty hunter in the Lando comic was a big character.. and there was the female storm trooper in the Phasma novel (just off the top of my head). So I would not be surprised if we are given vague information, and left to assume they are all male because they don't look female- only to find surprise(!) one of them is female. You know?
Until I am told explicitly they are all male or I see them with no masks, I'm going to be open to possibilities. I'll be happy with anything - except I wasn't keen on all female KOR. ick. but this may be just me and that's cool.

I loved the Praetorian guards and all the build up to learning more about them. Hopefully once the toys start being released we'll have fun putting the pieces together about the KOR!
Just a thought... hey Mods what do you think - can we maybe put the KOR thread in TROS section?
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 16 May 2019, 5:58 pm

I prefer an all male group as well, purely because Kylo has all the characteristics of the sexually frustrated!

Is it just me, or are they a bit creepy? I can see kids dressed like that on Halloween.
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Post by YeeRees on Thu 16 May 2019, 6:46 pm

I’m not excited in any way about the Knights of Ren. I do wish at least a couple of them were female. There doesn’t have to be any underlying sexual tension with Kylo (shipping happens regardless!)

So far, it’s all looking very generic and it’s probable (for time and story reasons) we will never find out anything substantial about them in the movie. They might get more fleshed out in supplementary material but I don’t see much more use for them than the Pretorian guards in TLJ. If Matt Smith is one I suppose he will get a bit more characterisation. It’s not as if he means anything to the audience at this point so I’m not expecting much depth.

I guess Kylo’s relationships with the KoR will be much like the Rey, Finn, Poe trio. Much of the development will have taken place off screen and the actors will have to sell the emotional attachment instead of it being built up as part of the overall ST story.
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Post by californiagirl on Thu 16 May 2019, 7:37 pm

Rey, Finn, and Poe are the cuddly friendship trio (apparently), I have a hard time seeing that dynamic exactly replicated with the KOR, or Kylo wouldn't be nearly so isolated and unstable. The stuff that comes out this early, even in leaks, naturally would be probable and not that mind-blowing. The most important parts of TLJ, outside of the idea of the hut scene, remained a secret until the film opened.
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Post by DarthRen on Thu 16 May 2019, 8:58 pm

@YeeRees wrote:I’m not excited in any way about the Knights of Ren. I do wish at least a couple of them were female. There doesn’t have to be any underlying sexual tension with Kylo (shipping happens regardless!)

So far, it’s all looking very generic and it’s probable (for time and story reasons) we will never find out anything substantial about them in the movie. They might get more fleshed out in supplementary material but I don’t see much more use for them than the Pretorian guards in TLJ. If Matt Smith is one I suppose he will get a bit more characterisation. It’s not as if he means anything to the audience at this point so I’m not expecting much depth.

I guess Kylo’s relationships with the KoR will be much like the Rey, Finn, Poe trio. Much of the development will have taken place off screen and the actors will have to sell the emotional attachment instead of it being built up as part of the overall ST story.
@YeeRees

Actually, I can see the exact opposite of Kylo and Knights of Ren having a very intense dynamic. I can see them being very creepy not just going by their looks, almost the Dark Side obsessed fanatics just as unstable like Kylo or perhaps even more. Also very violent, practicing rituals. I suppose Matt Smith will be the one to rebel against Kylo or starts to question him. Especially if Kylo is meeting the Resistance or working with Rey.

Unlike Rey, Finn, and Poe who seems to be close but even they will have some difficulties as John Boyega alluded to. Might have something to do that Rey was working or perhaps force skyping with Kylo.

So far we know little about them but they are JJ's idea and I'm sure he'll give them some good scenes with Kylo and more. Kylo has to interact with them quite a bit for plot and logical purposes. Hux doesn't seem to be as much involved and other than him we have only Stormtroopers and officers of the First Order.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 16 May 2019, 9:43 pm

I don't doubt the KoR will be in the movie. Thought at this point they've been discussed/speculated about so much by both the filmmakers and fans that whatever happens, it'll be a letdown. Like I'd almost rather have them roll up in a post credits segment to be like "Hey guys, sorry we're late but we were doing a podcast with Mike Zeroh and lost track of time."

Otherwise I tend to go back to what's been discussed publicly by the filmmakers to get some clue. Remember how the joint WGA panel with JJ, Kasdan, and Arndt first brought them up?

Q: There’s a dream sequence in this movie that’s the first one in a Star Wars film. That supplies a little bit of a hint of her background. Did you experiment much with telling a lot more and then pulling back? Or was it always going to be that impressionistic?

Lawrence Kasdan: It was always impressionistic. That really has so much to do with J.J.’s wanting to see certain images, which we all found very powerful. And, you know, there’s just a touch of the Knights of Ren. I want to see the movie about the Knights of Ren. I don’t think I want to write it, but I do want to see it. Because they have great outfits, and they’re really cool. So you see a little bit of them in there. But J.J. worked that thing again and over and over and never stopped. It’s very much an expression of his, the impressionistic revelation of emotion that she’s going through. She’s mystified. She’s really mystified by what’s happening to her. And I thought J.J. captured that.

The KoR caught attention from film nerds (like me) because Kasdan kept mentioning one of the core influences on the Saga films, Akira Kurosawa. Which the Force Back references a direct shot from Seven Samurai

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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 23 1525880598337568429

Also Kasdan talked a lot about Kurosawa's characters/themes and being part of the cinematic influences on the Saga:

Oh yeah. All the movies of Akira Kurosawa have influenced me throughout my career. That’s because he was sort of the Shakespeare of cinema. He did comedies, he did action films, he did Shakespearean drama and all of life is contained in each one of his films. Seven Samurai may be the greatest film ever made, it’s a personal drama, it’s an action picture. So when J.J. and I were working, we kept referring to that. And then we would talk about the great American movies that we loved and things that had influenced the first Star Wars which was Howard Hawks and John Ford. Flash Gordon. When George made A New Hope, he was influenced very much by Kurosawa and by Flash Gordon and by The Wizard of Oz. I think that all those movies, you could feel them in A New Hope. And everything that’s in A New Hope has come down through the movies to this day.”

Kurosawa once said the heroes are the ones that are still changing and the villains are locked and petrified into what they are

After TFA came out and he's ostensibly walked away from further involvement other than the Executive Producer credit, JJ shared Kasdan's desire to see the KoR expanded on in a film. Which at the time, most of us figured that translated to "there's too much ground to cover in the narrative, so they're not going to play a critical role in the ST."

J.J. Abrams Would Like to See a Knights of Ren ‘Star Wars’ Spin-Off

I gotta say Kathy Kennedy, who’s running it all, she seems to be pushing all the right buttons. There isn’t something that I’d love to see—I guess the one thing I would say is there’s a Knights of Ren story that I think would be pretty cool to tell.

I'm not sure if anybody outside of fanboys were hoping/expecting to see the KoR turn up on the Supremacy, but they weren't in the story because Rian has publicly said (who knows what was going to be in Trevorrow's version of IX) the logic of the Throne Room scene meant that Kylo would've have to kill them all. And whatever the past history/alliances Kylo has with that group wasn't going to be explored in TLJ, the Praetorian Guard were instead in that scene.

Rian Johnson Didn't Want the Knights of Ren in The Last Jedi Because He Would've Murdered Them

I guess I could’ve used them in place of the Praetorian guards but then it would feel like wasting them because all those guards had to die. And if Kylo had some kind of connection to them it would’ve added a complication that wouldn’t have helped the scene… Truth is, I just didn’t see a place for them in the movie.

tl:dr - they're coming back in the next movie because JJ clearly was excited about the concept, they have some role to play in Kylo's backstory, and could easily be a group like the Handmaidens of Naboo in the PT. Maybe they're the other students who revolted against Luke or maybe they're affiliated with whatever Snoke/The Emperor were up to. But they were already foreshadowed in the Force Back as a critical moment between Rey and Ben and cool designs = sizzle to sell audiences on and action figures for collectors.  I will eat my hat if Kasdan didn't have input on who they are and what role they play in the story which very heavily has to do with Seven Samurai, which were a group of Ronin (no master) samurai who band together with a group of villagers against an overwhelming force of bad guys (if you've seen The Magnificent Seven, that's an English language/Western remake). I'd be curious with Lando's re-introduction, especially as a 'morally grey but comes through when it counts' character who's Ben's godfather, if that's the direction we'll see the KoR play in the story.
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Post by nana7marie on Thu 16 May 2019, 10:17 pm

@californiagirl wrote:Rey, Finn, and Poe are the cuddly friendship trio (apparently), I have a hard time seeing that dynamic exactly replicated with the KOR, or Kylo wouldn't be nearly so isolated and unstable. The stuff that comes out this early, even in leaks, naturally would be probable and not that mind-blowing. The most important parts of TLJ, outside of the idea of the hut scene, remained a secret until the film opened.
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Post by YeeRees on Thu 16 May 2019, 10:39 pm

I didn’t mean that the whole back story needed to be shown or that Kylo’s relationship with the KoR would mirror Rey’s with Finn, Poe, and the Resistance. My problem with it all is that we are heading into the 3rd part of a trilogy where many key characters with key relationships have barely or never interacted on screen. Outside of the dynamics established in TFA and TLJ, most importantly Rey and Kylo, much of the tension, stakes and emotion will hinge on inferred connections that will be left to exposition or supplementary materials. Maybe it won’t matter or we won’t care if the main relationships have a satisfactory payoff. But I can’t help feeling it’s part of the dissatisfaction some fans feel when it seems large and important chunks of the story have been skirted over or left out all together. I’m all for show don’t tell but we’ve neither been shown nor told a lot of things which have led to many headcanons and incorrect assumptions being made which will inevitably lead to disappointment when they don’t happen.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Thu 16 May 2019, 10:52 pm

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Post by DeeBee on Fri 17 May 2019, 12:50 am

@AhsokaTano wrote:Thanks @Lovely_Rose
Yeah makes perfect sense as inversion of Padmé ‘s handmaidens and kylo holding on to his masculinity for dear life because he doesn’t want to move on. He’s clinging on to his soul for dear life and his essence and does not want to let in the feminine which can let him move on and be reborn. This film is gonna destroy me and Adam will be amazing. Gonna post something in predictions.
@AhsokaTano

@snufkin wrote: ... - they're coming back in the next movie because JJ clearly was excited about the concept, they have some role to play in Kylo's backstory, and could easily be a group like the Handmaidens of Naboo in the PT. Maybe they're the other students who revolted against Luke or maybe they're affiliated with whatever Snoke/The Emperor were up to. But they were already foreshadowed in the Force Back as a critical moment between Rey and Ben and cool designs = sizzle to sell audiences on and action figures for collectors...
@snufkin

This idea of the KOR being a version of Padme's handmaidens is really interesting! I hadn't thought of that.. and it makes sense given the recent release of Queen's Shadow. Even if there is one or two females in the KOR.
I see the most interesting contrast as not being about gender but about which side of the light you follow. Padme's handmaidens were loyal and selfless- as was Padme. They were basically aligned with the light. If the KOR are aligned with the dark (and we know they are dark side force users already), they are going to be a very different group with very different values! Can you imagine?! They are going to be disloyal, and selfish- seeking their own power.. They may worship Vader and maybe worship Kylo Ren as a result but I don't think there will be any genuine connection between any of them - including with their leader. But.. Kylo/Ben is ultimately alone.
LOL I think 'team of dark side users' is an oxymoron- you know? teamwork isn't really in their vocabulary for long if at all..lol.

The vibe that they are rabid, fanatical and unpredictable is kinda cool. I'd be up for that! this is a good contrast to the disciplined and cool Praetorian guards too.

It's possible some KOR may turn back to the light, as their leader does.. which could be even more interesting- and open up opportunity for that KOR who turn back to the light and live to have their own comic book series beyond TROS! lol.

I don't know why but I really enjoy all the possibilities the KOR can bring to this story, they really spark my interest! But regardless of that I don't think we'll get much of their back story and I don't think we really need it for TROS to make sense.. but YMMV.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 17 May 2019, 2:14 am

@DeeBee Depending on how deep they want to bring the story back to TPM, the KoR could have some callback to the Handmaidens. Whether or not it's "We are brave, your highness" or something else remains to be seen. But we know that during the writing sprint Kasdan and JJ did for TFA (which included getting input from Carrie and Harrison), Kasdan said they talked extensively about The Seven Samurai. Which is a story about a group of rag-tag warriors who are driven by morality and honor to ally with a rural community against the larger bigger bad. I've thought ever since I heard Kasdan and JJ talk about this movie, that would be the direction for the KoR. Which we'll see. It could be my other idea after JJ talked at length about filming in the same location as Lawrence of Arabia, which is another film about disparate groups banding together to take on a larger occupying power*. KoR could play in there too since we know thanks to the Databank that Kylo's job title is warlord.

* My guess is that it ties in with the "there's always a bigger fish/everybody works for somebody" themes which Solo loops back to from TPM with the introduction of Crimson Dawn (which has a motif in the score for Solo soundtrack that includes Snoke's theme) and the Five Syndicates. The scene in the bar with Enfys Nest when she tells the story of how Crimson Dawn and her group, the Cloud-Riders, both came to be - tell me that's not what's going to happen in TROS. It wouldn't even surprise me if it turned out that Snoke was originally affiliated with Crimson Dawn or one of the Five Syndicates (and thus the order for Ben to kill him goes back to the debts he owed Jabba & stealing the coaxium from Dryden Vos).
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Post by AhsokaTano on Sat 18 May 2019, 4:46 pm

Ok everyone am gonna post this here because I think this definitely means Reylo is happening - : this is the new book crash of fate by Zoraida Cordova publishers summary :- this could be kylo and Rey instead of Izzy and Jules :
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 23 0700b610
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 23 78c2de10
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 23 315c8610
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarscanon/comments/bq3xpe/full_publishers_summary_for_a_crash_of_fate_young/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

Don’t be put off by the they knew each other as kids - it’s because this series ( as well as marvel ) is going to redefine ( I believe ) what it means to be a soulmate and the journey of the soul . I’ve posted some observations last 3 days in predictions thread . Some are ramblings , some earth shaking shocking revelations and just things I’ve found . It might not be where they are headed and just guessing but when I saw this summary I smiled because well you’ll see . Be prepared to cry lots though . It’s gonna be beautiful but painful and bittersweet.
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Post by rawpowah on Sat 18 May 2019, 6:26 pm

Ummm... I think those names are what they are. They're not placeholders for Reylo or proof of anything imo. It's basically a YA novel with a new couple (just like Lost Stars centered on a new couple).
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Post by AhsokaTano on Sat 18 May 2019, 6:38 pm

@rawpowah
I didn’t mean they were placeholders for Rey and Kylo Smile just that I think the conflict will play out something like this ie they are soulmates though they try to deny it , they are drawn to and attracted to each other , he’ll probably end up on the run as smuggler or something similar ( maybe initially) and they’ll both leave what they know to be together though the conflict will be there because it means leaving everything behind . Like lost stars novel reminded us of love on opposite sides but ended with one of them in prison , I think here we are getting something along the lines of exile but it won’t be exile because it’s something they ‘ve chosen because they can’t stay where they are . That in the end the pull towards each other is too great to just keep calm and carry on .
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Post by californiagirl on Sun 19 May 2019, 11:09 pm

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Post by Socialnole on Wed 22 May 2019, 2:48 pm

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Post by rawpowah on Wed 22 May 2019, 2:49 pm

omg

He looks like a prince.
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Post by SheLitAFire on Wed 22 May 2019, 2:59 pm

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 23 Fb_img10
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 23 Fb_img11
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Post by SkyStar on Wed 22 May 2019, 3:17 pm

Haha that MF pic is recycling pro - just switching different resistance characters in every photo shoot.
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Post by tukicarreno on Wed 22 May 2019, 3:18 pm

@Socialnole

OMG. He does look like a Prince! I need this cover now! So exciting! Very Happy Laughing
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Post by olyer on Wed 22 May 2019, 3:52 pm

Can we talk about this?
"Vanity Fair can exclusively confirm that, yes, those are the Knights of Ren that Kylo is mowing down in The Rise of Skywalker trailer."
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