Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker

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Post by snufkin on Tue 25 Jun - 20:35

My guess is that Ben visiting the Oracle is going to be awfully similar to the plotline JJ wrote for the final season of Felicity (learning that she and her Ben are fated to be together).

Take this with a grain of salt because it's non-movie content. But I noticed these quotes from the Han Solo series when he returns to Leia after doing a mission for the Rebel Alliance and they're snarking at each other, but he still won't leave her. Comes close to the themes they've covered in Solo and TFA about deciding who you are and could easily be about Rey and Ben, besides Han and his going back and forth about his feelings for Leia and later being a father

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Post by AhsokaTano on Thu 27 Jun - 13:40

Hey all - just had some more thoughts after re-watching John Carter and Toy story 3. Possible foreshadowing in the imagery and wording just like we are seeing in latest Disney films .Star Wars seems to have been influenced by John Carter anyway ( the books ) and also Flash Gordon ( as we know ) some imagery and descriptions from John Carter below .

Ok where do I start ? John Carter is about 30 years old And 6ft 2inches , Black hair , eyes that appear to change colours from gold , grey etc ( colours are significant because they are telling you the state of his soul and mood I believe ) he has been through resurrections and cannot remember his past although he remembers a wife and child . He is a collector of antiquities and is aristocratic and writes journals . Similar to someone we know so far??? ...John Carter appears in the 19th century . Moreover he has a device like Luke’s /kylo’s compass ( loki’s Locket in marvel’s agent of Asgard comic ) and this device helps him to astral project to Mars ( where most of the story takes place ). There are even more echoes to Star Wars - the leaders on mars are called Jeddak and Jeddara and John jumps like a Jedi on Mars and calls for his “ sword “. He also cries out at one point on the desert plains saying he deserves more and deserves his gold ( gold I believe being a metaphor for the soul if its following marvel tradition and us being made of Star stuff )after what he’s gone through ( like he’s crying out to someone ? Or being?). Yes I know we are meant to think he’s a world weary war veteran and that’s what he’s talking about but I think there’s more going on here because it’s almost like John Carter has been displaced ?( Maybe through the world between worlds and that it’s the Polly and Diggory effect of the magician’s nephew where Ben/Loki or whoever he really is doesn’t remember all the details or who he is because that’s what the world between worlds does to Polly and Diggory when they enter it ?) That he was somewhere else before and now he’s in 1880s New York and doesn’t remember his past clearly. Just flashbacks. He also states at one point to Powell “ you will finish what you started “ which is an inversion of kylo’s statement and Matal Shang ( representing the darkness who empowers the villain ) says this at one point “We serve the Goddess, and she has chosen you to receive this weapon [Blue matrix arm band which looks like the beginning of the infinity gauntlet of Thanos and Mozenrath from Aladdin cartoons )]. Do as we command and you will rule all of Barsoom, with none to defy you and nothing to stand in your way.” Again echoeing kylo and his “ nothing will stand in our way “ but an inversion of it .

Moreover John Carter’s mausoleum ( where he goes to astral project ) says in it “ inter mundos “ which means between worlds . Yep! World between worlds ? Sounds like it to me . See picture below . Plus when John looks from Mars to earth what does he see ? Look below - he sees the sun and the moon which looks like the twin suns of tatooine in how they are positioned and same from Anch - to . Very very interesting. Foreshadowing? Part of a larger plan? I don’t know . So what made me go back to watching John Carter for clues ? X men’s Wolverine .Wolverine was born in the 1880s , again had several resurrections and was able to come back in a cave 3 days later thanks to a woman called .... Persephone who healed him but also she was able to heal him because he has an adamantine skeleton . So many parallels . Again wolverine remembers a wife and child from the past and that his son was brainwashed which is interesting . Again it’s like he’s a man displaced trying to figure out who he is .

So what brings me back to Toy story 3 - the incinerator incident . The toys are saved by the claw . Wolverine is known as the claw . What is wolverine ? Wolf man . Beast man . Who is the beast in Star Wars sequel trilogy who is going to save them all ? Now this is the interesting question because in Rise of Skywalker we have 3 beasts - Palpatine , kylo/Ben and we also have chewbacca who could count too .
I wonder if we are going to get something like Harry Potter - do you remember the prophecy that included both Neville and Harry as destroying Voldemort? And it came to pass because Neville killed Nagini ?

Anyway it seems we could have 3 claws or beasts if Disney are foreshadowing through their films for Rise of Skywalker . Maybe Palpatine or the rumoured dark acolyte working with Palpatine creates a super weapon or is about to unleash the beyond into Star Wars galaxy and they have to stop the darkness coming in ( maybe where grysks come in?)so maybe Ben and Rey fight Palpatine and in the meantime chewie and Lando in the falcon are dealing with the superweapon about to go off or the army of darkness ( grysks ) about to come through the beyond ? This would echo return of the Jedi where Luke and Vader and Palpatine are in conflict and Leia, Han , Lando , chewie are dealing with the superweapon . This would take things full circle too - the falcon going back to its original owner and the two remaining father figures ie Lando and chewie dying( yeah sad though ) to make way for the new generation. I don’t know . Maybe they manage to pull off a miracle , a little bit of magic like am hoping Rey and Ben will with Ben’s rumoured resurrection and survive it all. Maybe Rey and Kylo have lived countless lives expressed to us through cinema and film and books for i don’t know for how long and Rise of Skywalker is going to pull the biggest twist in the history of twists because after all am sure I read somewhere that Rise of Skywalker was going to have earth shattering twists that we would be talking about for years afterwards. All this world between worlds idea too would tie in too with whole Jesus taking on the sins of the world idea , that kylo and Rey had got lost maybe in the world between worlds going through time and space to ultimately be together and living through many incarnations like the mortis gods were supposed to have done before they find each other or they could tie all of it to the three days Jesus is meant to descend to hell and back ie hell being represented by world between worlds and time working like narnia where a lifetime in one world is like an hour or so in Star Wars galaxy ).
Anyway food for thought as always and take with pinch /grain of salt as always .

And talking of magic am going to leave you with this great quote from the Prestige film- a wonderful ( though very dark )film about illusions, magic and clones /creating avatars to fool the audience because who knows what the force is capable of . If Rey and Kylo have godlike powers and Luke could physically astral project for days on end( and John Carter even longer ) then am sure we will see wondrous magical things :

“Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called "The Pledge". The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man. He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course... it probably isn't. The second act is called "The Turn". The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call "The Prestige".The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... ... "The third stage is sometimes called the effect, or the prestige, and this is the product of magic.”



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Post by DeeBee on Sun 30 Jun - 7:16

@Starliteprism wrote:Prediction: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo visited the Oracle(leaked concept?) prior to TFA. Possibly at that point, he learned about "a girl" that would be a big part of his future. Maybe the Oracle will be a flashback and/or similar to when Rey had her forcevision?
@Starliteprism

hiya! I really like this idea Starliteprism! I hadn't thought of that but it makes a lot of sense.. that he could have visited the oracle before TFA - 'What girl?!' lol.
You got me thinking.. Maybe he visits the oracle twice: before TFA and then in TROS?
Visiting the oracle after TLJ makes sense to me, as I see him feeling lost and confused after TLJ. He has the SL title, has beaten Snoke, confronted Luke.. practically wiped out the resistance and the jedi.. but.. he's not feeling like a victor.. so what's the SL missing? tee hee..

Have we ever seen an oracle in canon before? we've seen lots of prophecy and visions..
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Post by AhsokaTano on Mon 1 Jul - 14:37

Would the Bendu in Rebels season 3 count as an oracle ?He certainly had oracle type qualities in some of things he said and Kanan went to him seeking help and wisdom . If that’s the case then I guess yoda could count as an oracle figure too? @DeeBee Smile
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Post by rey09 on Sat 6 Jul - 8:32

Has anyone seen Stranger Things season 3? There were some elements there that were perfect and exactly how I was hoping they would do in TROS.

Spoiler:
I loved How Eleven went into Billy's memories, back to his childhood and you really empathize for him, and then Eleven comes back to this memory at the the crucial moment with Billy and it helps him snap out. It was so beautiful and literally exactly what I want to happen with Kylo and Rey. The force can give on unlimited power and abilities esp for them but they rarely show anything cinematic aside from levitating thing and mind tricks. I think it's such a no brainer narrative technique and it's annoying they haven't done this before but it's still not too late! And actually the memories that we see is the major way the audience starts feelings bad for him and understands why billy is the way he is, and ultimately helps him in his redemption arc. It is the formula - show their past trauma and have the character take a major selfless act.

Also the last 10 min I cried my butt off when you hear Hopper's note, so touching, and was hoping Leia had something like that for Ben. I know we have been hoping Leia had a note for him or something from that book about her. It would be the right way for him to get closure.

I felt just having these kinds of moments lent to a lot pathos to this season.
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Post by Teo oswald on Sun 7 Jul - 11:00

Daisy Ridley Teases Rey's Epic Lightsaber Battle With Kylo Ren in Star Wars 9

We have a great fight. A great fight. And I was really happy that the Vanity Fair pictures did show a bit of it. It’s a great fight. Like I’ve become such a better fighter and they made the lightsabers lighter, so it actually looks like we’re swinging light and not like heavy, heavy [swords] wrote:

This fight, we did, it was November, we had water being thrown at us, and I got a great deal of respect because I did not, I was 'I’m not gonna complain about the cold, I’m just not gonna do it (laughs)—so it was like a real thing of stamina. It feels really epic, and it felt epic even at the time. Imagine, we had the waves like this, and they're gonna make the waves bigger, and one can only imagine what it’s gonna look like." wrote:

really guys can't wait to see this last episode !!
of one thing I'm sure: the battles with the lightsabers are exciting, both those of the old trilogy, and these.
Whatever happens, I'm sure it will be, as they said "epic"!!!!

original link : https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-daisy-ridley-lightsaber-battle-rey-kylo-ren/
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Post by AhsokaTano on Sun 7 Jul - 15:49

Ok just had thought what if Ben is brought back in spirit but like the Emperor ie in another host body ? So his soul would be in another body ? How would people feel about this ? Am not saying this is going to happen but if the Emperor could do it then maybe this is a point - we are luminous beings and our body is what houses the soul but that soul goes on . Anyway just one of my random thoughts . This may be a way to give reylos , FinnRey’s ( although Rose would have to die if they did finnrey which I wouldn’t be happy about ) or ReyPoe’s all a share of the shipping plot OR they could even have Jannah harbour Ben’s soul and give us a ReyJannah ? Am not saying this is going to happen but with the introduction of spirit /soul hopping that they’ve seemed to introduced with the Emperor the possibilities are endless as to how they could bring Ben back . Sith , they could even have Ben live in Rey either born again as a child or literally as part of Rey , her darkside . Her literal shadow . This is getting weird even for me now . Lol! I’d rather they didn’t go there but just saying they’ve now opened up a can of worms with spirit transfer essence that could go anywhere . Here’s hoping they keep it simple ie Ben’s soul in Ben’s body - full body and soul resurrection( if the MSW rumours are true about resurrection).
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Post by giaciak2 on Sun 7 Jul - 16:10

My hope is that Rey will open a portal and do what Vader wanted for Padme in the comic released in December. Vader wanted to bring her back but she didn't recognize him because he had become Vader.
Ezra also brought Ahsoka back.
It will be repetitive but it would be nice if Rey went back in time and took Ben before he did anything foolish.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 7 Jul - 16:19

@AhsokaTano wrote:Ok just had thought what if Ben is brought back in spirit but like the Emperor ie in another host body ? So his soul would be in another body ? How would people feel about this ? Am not saying this is going to happen but if the Emperor could do it then maybe this is a point - we are luminous beings and our body is what houses the soul but that soul goes on . Anyway just one of my random thoughts . This may be a way to give reylos , FinnRey’s ( although Rose would have to die if they did finnrey which I wouldn’t be happy about ) or ReyPoe’s all a share of the shipping plot OR they could even have Jannah harbour Ben’s soul and give us a ReyJannah ? Am not saying this is going to happen but with the introduction of spirit /soul hopping that they’ve seemed to introduced with the Emperor the possibilities are endless as to how they could bring Ben back . Sith , they could even have Ben live in Rey either born again as a child or literally as part of Rey , her darkside . Her literal shadow . This is getting weird even for me now . Lol! I’d rather they didn’t go there but just saying they’ve now opened up a can of worms with spirit transfer essence that could go anywhere . Here’s hoping they keep it simple ie Ben’s soul in Ben’s body - full body and soul resurrection( if the MSW rumours are true about resurrection).
@AhsokaTano

I am open-minded, with the requirement that the storytelling is excellent, and as a film - TROS is an amazing film.

Now that I have said that, because you are asking, the one I would prefer, if Ben stays dead, is that Rey dies as well. Or, they both transform; however, they are beyond Force ghosts and become immortal Force Wielder beings - the most powerful ever (the Ones/the Mortis Gods would pale in comparison). So, if that is the story direction that is my wish list outcome; however, I am open-minded.
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Post by AhsokaTano on Sun 7 Jul - 20:32

@giaciak2
@SW_Heroine_Journey
Am open minded but admit would prefer they end up together as they are now (even if it means they both die and maybe end up in Mortis , the ethereal realm balancing the force forever in the incarnation they are now ) rather than transferring their souls into different bodies ( like film Avatar I guess ). However if they do it well am up for anything. I even got excited when I thought skrull husband and wife team Soren and Talos with their daughter ( Spider-Man far from home and captain marvel )were incarnations of Rey and kylo because not only does he have similar lines to Kylo but also because their reunion after a long time apart was emotional and sweet (and they are not even human) . So as long as it’s done well am up for it . Smile
I did like the idea of using time travel /world between worlds as a way to bring Ben back like in the Vader comics with lord momin but it seems that may be ruled out now after Daisy Ridley’s recent comments in an interview ( when she was promoting Orphelia in the US) when she said basically there’s no time travel . So am looking at alternatives now if Ben really does die - how goes he get resurrected?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1612188001

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Do you think she’s ruling out time travel because that or World between worlds would be the easiest way of solving the resurrection issue ( if Rey doesn’t bring Ben back like in Beauty and the Beast ) . Anyway food for thought - we’ve got SDCC soon Smile
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Post by AhsokaTano on Sat 13 Jul - 20:18

Hey all - So today have been thinking about how they could Pull off Ben/kylo’s resurrection ( assuming resurrection is on the cards for Ben/kylo )without time travel or world between worlds ( which no doubt would be the easiest way to do it ) and without healing from Rey ( Beauty and the Beast style )but requiring Rey’s assistance to be in on the plan( or not ).

Ok so this film is code named trixie and kylo is an anagram of Loki ( the ultimate trickster and master magician ) and we are assuming too that Rey and Kylo being god like in powers will discover new things they can do with the force right ?Lets not underestimate this because we could find out that through the force they are able to shapeshift or body swap . We just don’t know what they are capable of . What we do know is that the son and the daughter on mortis were capable of doing this with their godlike powers .
Even if kylo isn’t actually Loki himself the fact that there are so many indicators pointing to Loki’s abilities and what he could do ( I believe anyway ) through his name ie Kylo’s name is an anagram of Loki and the film is code named trixie ( which Loki calls himself) is I think hinting at things to come.
I have hope and believe they are going to Pull the biggest twist /trick before our eyes but in a satisfying way that doesn’t go against the grain of Star Wars .

So what else could they do ? I started thinking about the most famous resurrection in history ie Jesus and how some people believe Jesus really died and how others that somebody took his place or it appeared that he died when he didn’t . What if both versions are true ? What if it was Jesus and also wasn’t ?what if Kylo/Ben dies but doesn’t ? This is how it could be possible...

There are several ways this could happen (probably more that I haven’t thought of ):

1) Kylo uses a clone of himself so it is kylo technically who dies but also not original kylo and this also would be a cool scene if we see the Sith troopers unmask and they are Ben . Ben/kylo talked about a clone army in TFA and we are told in the MSW article that these “Sith troopers answer to kylo directly and are part of an important narrative plot point “.

2) A shape shifter changeling alien takes kylo’s place though I think this is less likely . In the Star Wars comics lately there have been a lot of plots involving shapeshifters with Luke , leia , Han and the mon calamari .

3) kylo force projects himself and is not really there ( like Luke but Kylo and Rey are god like level so will be able to maintain the illusion) so when the time comes Palpatine thinks he’s won but he hasn’t . Remember how MSW said there was a twist to the resurrection..

4) kylo uses a changeling device to morph into someone else ( obi wan did this in the clone wars when he pretended to be a criminal in the underworld and he physically morphed into this Person like he’d taken polyjuice potion in Harry Potter ). Moreover What’s interesting about how this happened is obi wan under cover called himself Ben .

4) Ben dies and resurrects but in someone else’s body ie his soul inhabits Finn’s body . Maz Kanata says she sees the same eyes in different people . Maybe she’s referring to this and fact she singles Finn out could refer to him eventually harbouring Ben’s soul . It would also give one explanation for Kylo/Ben’s interest in him.

5) Ben is reborn via Rey as a child and Finn is the surrogate father like Joseph was to Mary in the biblical story . Again this would offer one explanation why Ben is interested in him as his potential father .
If this is about survival and Ben knows what is coming through force visions then he might know Finn’s role already.

6) Finn sacrifices his life for Ben’s though don’t know how this would work . He tries to sacrifice his life in TLJ in a very emotional scene because he’s adamant he won’t let the first order win . Imagine if he finds out that Palpatine is behind it all and an even bigger threat? I wouldn’t be very happy though if this scenario played out and only way it would work would be if Rose had already died and the promise would be that Rey and kylo with their powers could bring them both back . Anyway am reaching here I know with my speculation lol.

So why am I mentioning Finn so much ? It’s because I believe he’s pivotal in whatever plan they have orchestrated and I don’t just mean the stormtrooper rebellion ( if that happens).
Finn in the TFA art concept book was supposed to have been called Sam at one point . Incidentally both Sam and Simon mean “ God hears , listens “ and as we know Simon of Cyrene carried the cross of Christ and helped Jesus . So what could this mean ? Somehow he’s going to be integral to Ben and Rey .

At the end of the day we know in Star Wars it’s the Han’s and Finn’s of This world that make the difference . They support the chosen ones - whether it’s Sam supporting Frodo to Mordor or Heimdell guarding the gates of Asgard or Han supporting Luke and Leia , I believe Finn will be the same .
Maybe Finn’s role will be to aid Kylo and Rey’s escape into exile or maybe help them in some other way -I don’t know.

Just some thoughts I thought I’d share .Of course they could just do it traditional Beauty and the Beast style if they are going for resurrection( which they probably will as it’s the most straight forward choice ), Smile

Ps/Am editing to add this - this is the episode in clone wars where obi wan fakes his own death and morphs into another person with a changeling device and is under cover( they call it here facial nanotechnology). . The Jedi have this tech . I just wonder if they’ll use something like this in Rise of Skywalker. If someone is going to have the ability and know how it’s probably Ben as who knows what interesting artefacts , tech and info he has access to . Remember in Star Wars they like unmasking and disguises a lot in the whole saga . Maybe Ben will end up being the alien king Prana after all( a Prince in disguise as Belle tells us in beauty and the beast and he does look very beast like with his horns ) or whoever the criminal underworld king is Lol! Just kidding . This episode isn’t talked about much but it could end up being important and it’s first time we hear Obi Wan referred to as Ben . Check out the story if you can .

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Deception
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Post by guardienne on Mon 15 Jul - 20:03



for yer pleasure Lolilol
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 16 Jul - 15:23

@guardienne wrote:

for yer pleasure Lolilol
@guardienne

Watched the whole thing last night, and while it is full of snark I think that they are taking their predictions seriously.

Half in the bag prediction 1. time travel.  
 a. MF has it's dish back

       I agree it is unusual, the question is.. did it happen because of time travel or because Lando fixes his ship?
 b. the skywalker saber fixed.

                 I think Rey fixes the saber and not because of time travel. However, DR says that is not the end of the story about the saber or sabers so we shall see.

Half in the bag Prediction 2.  Rise of Skywalker is Luke doing a Gandalf the White.

            Now this one I could see happening however, I still say that Kylo is the new Phoenix. However, the only person called "Skywalker" throughout the ST has been Luke himself.... so???? Which is it? Why not BOTH?

Half in the bag Prediction 3.

  It is Kylo who wants something the Emperor had or the Emperor is promising Kylo god like force powers or some combination thereof...
I just don't' buy this one.

Kylo is too far gone to be redeemed and he must die. .


I don't think either of these things is going to happen




I think there where more predictions but those are the ones that popped out to me.
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Post by giaciak2 on Tue 16 Jul - 17:14

@AhsokaTano @guardienne @spacebaby45678

I was thinking...

Kylo - who has the heart of his father. He could eventually cheat (a bit like he did with Snoke), and make Palpatine believe he fell into his trap and instead played dirty dice like his father.

Maybe his grandfather really spoke to him through the mask and led him to a big trick to kill Palpatine forever.
A deception so big that he has to pretend to be obscure, kills his father and Luke.
So great to die himself to save the Galaxy all (and Rey).

But, then he could resurrect with help of Luke and Anakin, perhaps combining the forces of all dead Jedi before him. All united in the Force through Rey.

Then come back, thanks to the strength of all Jedi masters, maybe finding themselves (Ben and Rey) in Tatooine where Shmi arrived first...

Or

I could be crazy... (No this is sure)

I always think about image of Kylo with cloak in the wind, they showed it in the trailer. Kylo has Mr Darcy's face so ...
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Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 16 Jul - 20:08

That’s interesting.- past and future splitting to combine too . I love this @giaciak2 and hope you are Right - Anakin guiding kylo ,Kylo having the heart of his father and using the mischievous side of him ), all the force ghosts combined helping to resurrect Ben and then going back full circle to Tattooine Smile

Talking of Darcy somebody has been tweeting the following tweets below however ( and it’s been mentioned by someone too online ) what if instead of Jannah witnessing Ben and Rey’s reunion is that she is Ben resurrected ?

. Look at the way Jannah is framed -like Darcy . I remember Maz saying to Finn you see the same eyes in different people. Eyes are the window to the soul . Is there a twist to Ben ‘s resurrection and this is it ? If they are moving towards a more feminine world and the force is female as Lucasfilm keep telling us then are they doing away with the men altogether? Really hope not . Much as I would have no issue with it ( Ben resurrected in different body but would have if they killed all the men)I know it would alienate at least half the audience of Star Wars forever ie the men and that would be very harsh . We know Rey and kylo are soulmates . Let them stay in their current bodies Lucasfilm or if they do go down this route then let them be shapeshifters as then Ben can morph back to Adam driver Ben. Smile
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 5758e110
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 5d562b10
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 Fa8a6010Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 Fbface10
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 E088e410
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 2193c710

Love is love right ? In all its forms but I do think if Star Wars suddenly goes down this route in the final Skywalker saga the TLJ backlash will be nothing compared to this . Just hope Lucasfilm know what they are doing . I know I have a vivid imagination but part of me thinks if I say what’s on my mind then it preps me for everything. Lol!
Take with pinch of salt . Doesn’t mean this will happen and it’s unlikely because if Ben is going down the Jesus route it’s full body and soul resurrection as he was ( just occurred to me ). In other words he’s probably done one better than Palpatine who could only transfer his spirit ( what I believe anyway ). But maybe Ben will be changed ie will be able maybe to manipulate matter if he has been through death . And as a vergence in the force just like the world between worlds is- that realm be May open to him and Rey - any world in time and space . Just love throwing ideas out there even if am
Completely wrong lol . Smile

Below is from Star Wars website about the force :
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 8c2e5010
Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker - Page 10 E0505210


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Post by guardienne on Tue 16 Jul - 20:56

@spacebaby45678 i think you probably nailed it Lolilol

i can totally see them doing a gandalf the white thing. i can also see why people are saying kylo needs to die. i'm not sure i can see any redeeming features in him at the moment. i'm not sure carrying rey bridal style is enough of one.

i think any time travel plot would be daft. but hey. i watched and enjoyed endgame all the same.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 16 Jul - 22:19

@guardienne wrote:@spacebaby45678 i think you probably nailed it Lolilol

i can totally see them doing a gandalf the white thing. i can also see why people are saying kylo needs to die. i'm not sure i can see any redeeming features in him at the moment. i'm not sure carrying rey bridal style is enough of one.

i think any time travel plot would be daft. but hey. i watched and enjoyed endgame all the same.
@guardienne


I don't think the world between worlds is time travel per se, but more like the astral plane where time does not exist. A slight difference for sure.
As far as Kylo's redeeming qualities and I agree with you he ended TLJ in a regression, which I am not sure why that was done but oh well we can't cry over spilled green milk. However, I am still one who is holding out on we the "audience" not having the full story on Kylo and his reasons for being a dark warrior but not a sith. I find that really interesting, and I think JJ is not done with Kylo' or Rey's backstories, we are bound to learn more about both, and the "reason" their destinies are entangled.

I don't think their destinies are entangled just for him to die at the end. I know many have sloganed for "Bendemption" but I am more like Half in the bag, Kylo is going to have a come to Jesus moment if you know what I mean, self realization, repentance and then atonement, it is the only way to sell his "rising" to the audience.
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Post by Saracene on Tue 16 Jul - 23:26

Lol “Kylo’s too far gone to be redeemed” is the trick the ST has pulled twice now. But I’ve already gathered that the RLM crew aren’t as perceptive as I once thought.
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Post by MaddieDove on Wed 17 Jul - 2:48

As if no one ever read a traditional story from folklore where the third time is lucky, after two failures. I was raised on Slavic fairy tales and it's practically the rule.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 17 Jul - 4:59

@MaddieDove wrote:As if no one ever read a traditional story from folklore where the third time is lucky, after two failures. I was raised on Slavic fairy tales and it's practically the rule.
@MaddieDove

The ST has definitely revealed who has not enjoyed (or ignored) what they learned in Liberal Arts/Humanties studies. Very Happy Smile
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Post by snufkin on Wed 17 Jul - 16:10

Anybody who expects (or wants) “he’s gonna go full evil and die,” might as well pencil in the month of December to be disappointed and angry. Oh and probably also pencil in some time in January to rant about stupid the filmmakers are. Though to be honest there are probably better uses of their time, especially after 3 movies loaded with hints and outright anvils getting dropped on the audience’s head.
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Post by guardienne on Wed 17 Jul - 19:07

i think there's going to be anger mostly for time-wasting because nothing at all was told that's not been told before. i think that's how RLM hit the nail on the head. they can't stop making these but they are also too scared to actually say anything new beyond, love redeems anything and everything.

kylo will come to jesus and convert to the right side and that will then have been the story of another set of movies, how novel. someone will say that the force has been balanced now. the rebels will triumph. they will overthrow palpatine whether he is corporeal or not. at this point i'm not sue i actively *want* to see it and that makes me rather sad.

@spacebaby45678

yeah, i agree the spirit plane is different from time travel. it may be interesting to see if only for them having to create something like that. i don't know. tbh i kinda want the movie to be over already so i can let this story go.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Wed 17 Jul - 21:22

@guardienne wrote:i think there's going to be anger mostly for time-wasting because nothing at all was told that's not been told before. i think that's how RLM hit the nail on the head. they can't stop making these but they are also too scared to actually say anything new beyond, love redeems anything and everything.

kylo will come to jesus and convert to the right side and that will then have been the story of another set of movies, how novel. someone will say that the force has been balanced now. the rebels will triumph. they will overthrow palpatine whether he is corporeal or not. at this point i'm not sue i actively *want* to see it and that makes me rather sad.

@spacebaby45678

yeah, i agree the spirit plane is different from time travel. it may be interesting to see if only for them having to create something like that. i don't know. tbh i kinda want the movie to be over already so i can let this story go.

@guardienne

Yes, I get you on that. That is the thing with Soaps, they have you hooked and emotionally invested in a family saga, their like family to us and we can't let go until the story ends.

Here is the problem with never-ending stories ( shout out to ST3) they really are the same story over and over again especially if it is based on mythology. Sometimes the names and locations are different but ultimately they are the same archetypes/people with the same problems. If we buy into ring theory then the ST should in some way be a mirror image of what came before, so that even though it is familiar, there should be a fresh angle or new take on an old problem that we are looking at. I believe that is what George was aiming for in the PT. Luke and Anakin are mirror images but everything else has changed, the environments, the other supporting characters, the politics, the aliens. So that at least it feels fresh. Where JJ got off to a bad start was by recreating the rebellion/resistance vs. the FO/Empire. Now it just all feels like the same story.


However, I was hoping for that ultimate twist the role reversal, of Rey Kenobi, if it had been revealed as such at the end of EP7 then we could have had Luke exiled depressed wake up from that and be inspired to be a proper mentor. That would have been fresh and new. We also had the opportunity to have this story with a female protagonist be a love story a romance which would have also been novel but for some reason again we had a third act regression by RJ that has put many off of giving Kylo another chance so much so that even RLM can't see it but again what are the options when this is a 9th and final episode of a 40 year saga?

Maybe that is why RJ went full subversion in EP8, he destroyed the story threads so that EP9 could try to do a tiny reboot. Maybe? Here is hoping!

I am an optimist and will stay that way until proven otherwise.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 17 Jul - 21:28

@snufkin wrote:Anybody who expects (or wants) “he’s gonna go full evil and die,” might as well pencil in the month of December to be disappointed and angry. Oh and probably also pencil in some time in January to rant about stupid the filmmakers are. Though to be honest there are probably better uses of their time, especially after 3 movies loaded with hints and outright anvils getting dropped on the audience’s head.
@snufkin

Indeed! So silly to expect or want evil and die, considering the narrative direction!

Moreover, the teaser trailer mentions "This Christmas" versus "This December" (or the end of the year). No way is a movie with Christmas as the marketing day target highlighting -evil and die -as the prevailing theme. (I say this as an agnostic, yet it's true!) Very Happy Smile
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Post by guardienne on Wed 17 Jul - 22:26

@spacebaby45678 i don't know if rey kenobi would have made it fresh and new. i reckon my thoughts on this have shifted over time (like the sands, or something) and i'm no longer sure what i think constitutes fresh and interesting. i'm old and what do i know.

i don't know if it's about 'evil and die' as @SW_Heroine_Journey points out, it's just about how a story needs to absolutely also make me believe in a person's goodness. like, you know, that they are aiming to do good deep down, and i'm not sure i get that about kylo at this point. and seeing as we've had two movies with him in them already, movies were he's being all vulnerable and murderous, i'm not sure the narratives supports redeemability. i don't think vulnerability in itself is enough. rey has decided it is, and i suppose that's supposed to sell the concept to me but it didn't. there's not much else the movie can now do but show him do a selfless act and i guess that's just pretty repetitive. hence me saying they haven't found a way of saying anything new or radical or fresh or anything. it's just a better done versio of ROTJ and quite honestly back when i saw the TFA trailer that was my thought, oh, they're just going to repeat all of the things and now they do. more fool me, really.

@spacebaby45678

i think the PT, for my money, was a radical and not amazingly well-told experiment, but i love its political boldness actually. i wish the new movies had any of that kind of idea going but instead they are just playing it the safest way humanly possible. rebels = good, dark side = bad. lest we get confused.
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