Predictions for The Rise of Skywalker

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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 2:36 pm

@unicorn wrote:
@fuhry wrote:Something occurred to me this weekend that I never thought of but which seems really obvious.  I was writing lyrics for this musical I'm working on and one of the lines was "First order of business split them in two", and I looked at the line...

I have spent some time wondering why the First Order was called the First Order.  At times, I thought it perhaps was meant to be a reference to the early Republic.  But then I imagined Palpatine saying "First Order of Business,  destabilize and weaken the New Republic".

How did I never see that?
@fuhry

I alwas thought it comes from the last aftermath book, when Rae Sloane says at the end "This will be our first order (to go to the unknown regions to rebuild the empire or so, I don´t remember exactly) . hmmm Question
@unicorn

I had forgotten about that. Yes, Hux senior and junior and Rae Sloane were to start a new empire in the UR. I wonder if we’ll get a connection between the aftermath book and the ST in TRoS or if we’ll have to wait for another book. The most obvious connection would be that Palps was in the UR with Snoke and he sent Snoke to regain the galaxy because he’s not fully recovered. Maybe too obvious. Also I can’t see Snoke serving anyone so if he was Palps’ puppet, he was not aware of it.

I want to know what happened to Rae Sloane. I would not be surprised if Armitage broke his promise and had her killed.
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Post by unicorn on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 3:33 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:

I had forgotten about that. Yes, Hux senior and junior and Rae Sloane were to start a new empire in the UR. I wonder if we’ll get a connection  Maybe too obvious. Also I can’t see Snoke serving anyone so if he was Palps’ puppet, he was not aware of it.

I want to know what happened to Rae Sloane. I would not be surprised if Armitage broke his promise and had her killed.

@SanghaRen

Maybe Palpatine was the man behind the curtain for everything, from the beginning.
I  don´t think Snoke was ever willingly his servant, but his puppet, this could be.

Yeah, I fear Rae Sloane is long dead. Hux probably found a way to get rid of her.   Crying or Very sad[/quote]
[/quote]
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 4:19 pm

@unicorn wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:

I had forgotten about that. Yes, Hux senior and junior and Rae Sloane were to start a new empire in the UR. I wonder if we’ll get a connection  Maybe too obvious. Also I can’t see Snoke serving anyone so if he was Palps’ puppet, he was not aware of it.

I want to know what happened to Rae Sloane. I would not be surprised if Armitage broke his promise and had her killed.

@SanghaRen

Maybe Palpatine was the man behind the curtain for everything, from the beginning.
I  don´t think Snoke was ever willingly his servant, but his puppet, this could be.

Yeah, I fear Rae Sloane is long dead. Hux probably found a way to get rid of her.   Crying or Very sad
[/quote][/quote]
@unicorn

I'm holding out hope. I will not be surprised if she is revealed to be Finn and Jannah's mother, and she is still alive (and also in Jannah's life). The who, what, when, where, how of the separation between Finn and Jannah (and how Rae acted and processed it) - I have no idea how to answer, yet I am feeling this plot tingle, so I decided to type it. Smile Very Happy Who knows, it could be the reason why Finn positively latched on and bonded with Rey (people talk about a baby bird with a mother bird) because of the similar name pronunciation. We shall see, huh? Smile
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Post by fuhry on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 4:54 pm

I'm thinking at this point that perhaps Palpatine did figure out how to do that force ghost/disappear thing, and that when Vader tossed him down the shaft, that's what he did, before he got to the bottom. This is thought of as a light-side skill, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's the communicating with the living part of it that is the light-side power, because it requires the connection of love.

Now, it's easy enough for a force powerful person to learn how to do what Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Yoda, Luke, and Anakin/Vader have done. But transforming back into the living world, now that's a trick no one has done.

What if what Palpatine, Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Yoda, Anakin/Vader and Luke have done is transport themselves to the World Between Worlds? Perhaps getting out of the World Between Worlds requires some sort of device. This is canon in Rebels.

Perhaps Palpatine's contingency plan was to have the remaining Empire forces flee to the unknown regions where he had hidden a great fleet, and a loyalist, Snoke (I think he may be the survived Grand Inquisitor), to wreak havoc with the fledgling new Jedi order, and to lay the foundation for Palpatine's return, while the Knights of Ren searched for the technology to allow escape from the world between worlds.

Is it possible that Kylo knows about this plan? If he did, wouldn't his defiance and killing of Snoke indicate that he no longer wanted to be a part of it? If that were true, why would he retain such hatred for Luke? No, I think Kylo is an unwitting pawn. And I think it is the discovery of this that turns him away from the FO, and back toward the light.

I'm not sure I really like this direction, but if they're going there, then it means that Obi-wan, Anakin, Luke, Yoda, and Qui-gon are not really dead. And they could all, theoretically, come back in a climactic scene.

Honestly, I think that's exactly what George Lucas would advise J.J. to do. He wanted to do something like that with Obi-wan in ROTJ, and crazy stuff like this happens throughout the Clone Wars and especially in Rebels.

Maybe Matt Smith is playing Qui-gon. Maybe his participation is unclear because they have been trying to get Liam Neeson to reprise the role, or to do it with CGI, and they're not sure it's going to look good enough.


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Post by Moonlight13 on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 4:05 pm

I've never heard this theory before Shocked  Shocked  Shocked. I find it weird but interesting Laughing, and I think it could be the only way to have even the antis rooting for Reylo lol! .
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Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:04 pm

@Moonlight13 wrote:I've never heard this theory before Shocked  Shocked  Shocked. I find it weird but interesting Laughing, and I think it could be the only way to have even the antis rooting for Reylo lol! .
@Moonlight13

This blew my mind. Wow.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:39 pm

@fuhry wrote:I'm thinking at this point that perhaps Palpatine did figure out how to do that force ghost/disappear thing, and that when Vader tossed him down the shaft, that's what he did, before he got to the bottom. This is thought of as a light-side skill, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's the communicating with the living part of it that is the light-side power, because it requires the connection of love.

Now, it's easy enough for a force powerful person to learn how to do what Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Yoda, Luke, and Anakin/Vader have done. But transforming back into the living world, now that's a trick no one has done.

What if what Palpatine, Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Yoda, Anakin/Vader and Luke have done is transport themselves to the World Between Worlds? Perhaps getting out of the World Between Worlds requires some sort of device. This is canon in Rebels.

Perhaps Palpatine's contingency plan was to have the remaining Empire forces flee to the unknown regions where he had hidden a great fleet, and a loyalist, Snoke (I think he may be the survived Grand Inquisitor), to wreak havoc with the fledgling new Jedi order, and to lay the foundation for Palpatine's return, while the Knights of Ren searched for the technology to allow escape from the world between worlds.

Is it possible that Kylo knows about this plan? If he did, wouldn't his defiance and killing of Snoke indicate that he no longer wanted to be a part of it? If that were true, why would he retain such hatred for Luke? No, I think Kylo is an unwitting pawn. And I think it is the discovery of this that turns him away from the FO, and back toward the light.

I'm not sure I really like this direction, but if they're going there, then it means that Obi-wan, Anakin, Luke, Yoda, and Qui-gon are not really dead. And they could all, theoretically, come back in a climactic scene.

Honestly, I think that's exactly what George Lucas would advise J.J. to do. He wanted to do something like that with Obi-wan in ROTJ, and crazy stuff like this happens throughout the Clone Wars and especially in Rebels.

Maybe Matt Smith is playing Qui-gon. Maybe his participation is unclear because they have been trying to get Liam Neeson to reprise the role, or to do it with CGI, and they're not sure it's going to look good enough.


@fuhry

Thanks to you I was reading up on Mother Talzin. It seems she taught Palpy her dark side after life secret magic something something.... , I have to go back and find where I saw it recently.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 6:42 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:
@Moonlight13 wrote:I've never heard this theory before Shocked  Shocked  Shocked. I find it weird but interesting Laughing, and I think it could be the only way to have even the antis rooting for Reylo lol! .
@Moonlight13

This blew my mind. Wow.
@Kylo Rey
Same here. If this happened, the antis will come out of the theatres with "I Love Reylo" T-shirts, because absolutely no one would want the other alternative. It would be hilarious.ROFL
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Post by 12 Parsnips on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 7:04 pm

@Moonlight13 wrote:I've never heard this theory before Shocked  Shocked  Shocked. I find it weird but interesting Laughing, and I think it could be the only way to have even the antis rooting for Reylo lol! .
@Moonlight13

I just finished listening to that... A really interesting way to look at things. I will have to revisit (and probably reinterpret) the leaks with this theory in mind!
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Post by snufkin on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 8:19 pm

I saw the summary of it and even if I've never been a big fan of either The Princess Bride or Stardust (sorry), one of my first thoughts after they made it public knowledge that the Emperor was coming back could easily be a scenario where it turned out Rey's parents had tried to hide her because some bad guys were after them to use her. So you get the Emperor as a Prince Huperdinck or Lamia type character





That said, I can't really think of how it'd be feasible to play out this type of scenario and do full justice to it when while also balancing the overarching themes from three trilogies within the confines of probably a 2 hour and 30 minute film. Or how characters like Ben and Leia (cobbled together from Carrie's scrapped TFA footage) are also carrying the weight of a family Saga on their shoulders. What I'm more curious about are the # of dialogue/theme motifs the writers have mined in the ST and Solo which point to the Emperor's full endgame, including playing warring sides in both trilogies against each other, the Contingency plan, and the beats about targeting Ben since childhood.

What I am reasonably confident that there's more to the story about Rey's abandonment and her parents' deaths which will be uncovered in the story. Something that reveals that they made the decision under duress because something sinister ties her family in with whatever the biggest bad that's been lurking in the shadows and now emerging. Which whatever role/form the Emperor takes, he'll be there to try and manipulate/tempt the Hell out of her insecurities over being abandoned/an orphan to achieve whatever endgame he's been playing at. That in turn will heighten the connect she has with Ben and finally force him (unlike what happened with Snoke being a secret) to choose his side.
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Post by 12 Parsnips on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 8:37 pm

@snufkin wrote:I saw the summary of it and even if I've never been a big fan of either The Princess Bride or Stardust (sorry), one of my first thoughts after they made it public knowledge that the Emperor was coming back could easily be a scenario where it turned out Rey's parents had tried to hide her because some bad guys were after them to use her. So you get the Emperor as a Prince Huperdinck or Lamia type character





That said, I can't really think of how it'd be feasible to play out this type of scenario and do full justice to it when while also balancing the overarching themes from three trilogies within the confines of probably a 2 hour and 30 minute film. Or how characters like Ben and Leia (cobbled together from Carrie's scrapped TFA footage) are also carrying the weight of a family Saga on their shoulders. What I'm more curious about are the # of dialogue/theme motifs the writers have mined in the ST and Solo which point to the Emperor's full endgame, including playing warring sides in both trilogies against each other, the Contingency plan, and the beats about targeting Ben since childhood.

What I am reasonably confident that there's more to the story about Rey's abandonment and her parents' deaths which will be uncovered in the story. Something that reveals that they made the decision under duress because something sinister ties her family in with whatever the biggest bad that's been lurking in the shadows and now emerging. Which whatever role/form the Emperor takes, he'll be there to try and manipulate/tempt the Hell out of her insecurities over being abandoned/an orphan to achieve whatever endgame he's been playing at. That in turn will heighten the connect she has with Ben and finally force him (unlike what happened with Snoke being a secret) to choose his side.
@snufkin

The Dark vs. Divine Union idea doesn't have much (if anything) to do with Rey's parentage though, so I don't think it would take extra time in that area. There's definitely plenty of potential manipulating and tempting though. affraid And heightening the connect with Ben. I love you
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Post by snufkin on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 8:57 pm

@12 Parsnips Not Rey's parentage per se as much as "there's something more to her" which we've seen Ben be intrigued/smitten by, Luke get freaked out, and Snoke want her outright dead. The 'raw untamed power' quality she and both Ben share. It's just a little too random that JJ mentions we'll get "more to" her backstory about being abandoned/lost and then along comes the most powerful, manipulative, and self-serving Force user in the entire galaxy. Who will yes, do whatever he can to control or disable that power via manipulation and temptation. I don't doubt that part and would suspect the most likely explanation is that her parents were trying to protect her from the Bad Guys, bad/tragic things happened, and now she's an adult facing against the same players. But I have a hard time swallowing that they can play out the full extent of this type of fairy tale trope of Dark Suitor within the confines of a 2 hours plus change movie when they've also threads and themes got 8 prior chapters plus Solo and characters like Leia, Rose, Finn or whatever's going on with the First Order. We don't even know what Richard E. Grant's character is doing.

The other thing is that TBH so many people went down elaborate rabbit holes like this prior to TLJ with theories and while it was fun/educational, the actual story went for Occam's Razor in terms of explaining things. Rey's parents abandoned her and she's been lying to herself/others about it, Luke had a moment of weakness the way he almost killed his father and contemplating killing Ben, which led to the entire house of cards coming down, Ben didn't follow Rey to the island with the KoR but they connected/became close using the Force Bond, et cetera. The Emperor will absolutely try to tempt/manipulate/destroy Rey because she's a threat to his scheme. The same way Ben is. But personally I find too much speculation gets into the weeds and people start imagining a scenario which solves a puzzle in their minds but that's far too elaborate to actually work on screen.
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Post by Lily Snape on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 11:05 pm

@snufkin wrote:@12 Parsnips Not Rey's parentage per se as much as "there's something more to her" which we've seen Ben be intrigued/smitten by, Luke get freaked out, and Snoke want her outright dead. The 'raw untamed power' quality she and both Ben share. It's just a little too random that JJ mentions we'll get "more to" her backstory about being abandoned/lost and then along comes the most powerful, manipulative, and self-serving Force user in the entire galaxy. Who will yes, do whatever he can to control or disable that power via manipulation and temptation. I don't doubt that part and would suspect the most likely explanation is that her parents were trying to protect her from the Bad Guys, bad/tragic things happened, and now she's an adult facing against the same players. But I have a hard time swallowing that they can play out the full extent of this type of fairy tale trope of Dark Suitor within the confines of a 2 hours plus change movie when they've also threads and themes got 8 prior chapters plus Solo and characters like Leia, Rose, Finn or whatever's going on with the First Order. We don't even know what Richard E. Grant's character is doing.

The other thing is that TBH so many people went down elaborate rabbit holes like this prior to TLJ with theories and while it was fun/educational, the actual story went for Occam's Razor in terms of explaining things. Rey's parents abandoned her and she's been lying to herself/others about it, Luke had a moment of weakness the way he almost killed his father and contemplating killing Ben, which led to the entire house of cards coming down, Ben didn't follow Rey to the island with the KoR but they connected/became close using the Force Bond, et cetera. The Emperor will absolutely try to tempt/manipulate/destroy Rey because she's a threat to his scheme. The same way Ben is. But personally I find too much speculation gets into the weeds and people start imagining a scenario which solves a puzzle in their minds but that's far too elaborate to actually work on screen.
@snufkin

YES.  THIS EXACTLY.  The books and comics and even the cartoon TV shows get complex and go off into other realms and spiritualities and so forth— I’m not sure about time travel, but maybe that too, I’m sure someone knows— but in the cinematic universe of the GFFA, things stay pretty simple.  There were no flashbacks until TFA— the weirdest stuff we got was Luke in the cave.  No big backstory for Vader being Luke’s father— it was all very simple, and the big question was whether Vader was lying.  Not who the mother was, how Vader didn’t know about this child when he had presumably knocked someone up, how old little Luke had been when he disappeared from Anakin Skywalker’s life, whether Anakin had known he had a child but thought he had died, whether Luke’s mother had died or had given him to Owen and Beru to protect him... just “No, I am your father.”

And as you said, there are too many characters for them to get into gory detail about the Palpatine lineage and how it leads to Rey or whatever.  It’s going to be simple— either her parents really were deadbeats who sold her for drinking money, or they were trying to protect her from something or someone, but I doubt there will be manipulated midichlorians, resurrections, virgin births a la Shmi Skywalker... I think it’s going to stay pretty linear.  The prequels got a lot of bad press for being too complex, and I doubt they’ll go that way here.


Last edited by Lily Snape on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo. It’s Beru.)
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Post by snufkin on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:02 pm

@Lily Snape wrote:
YES.  THIS EXACTLY.  The books and comics and even the cartoon TV shows get complex and go off into other realms and spiritualities and so forth— I’m not sure about time travel, but maybe that too, I’m sure someone knows— but in the cinematic universe of the GFFA, things stay pretty simple.  There were no flashbacks until TFA— the weirdest stuff we got was Luke in the cave.  No big backstory for Vader being Luke’s father— it was all very simple, and the big question was whether Vader was lying.  Not who the mother was, how Vader didn’t know about this child when he had presumably knocked someone up, how old little Luke had been when he disappeared from Anakin Skywalker’s life, whether Anakin had known he had a child but thought he had died, whether Luke’s mother had died or had given him to Owen and Beru to protect him... just “No, I am your father.”

And as you said, there are too many characters for them to get into gory detail about the Palpatine lineage and how it leads to Rey or whatever.  It’s going to be simple— either her parents really were deadbeats who sold her for drinking money, or they were trying to protect her from something or someone, but I doubt there will be manipulated midichlorians, resurrections, virgin births a la Shmi Skywalker... I think it’s going to stay pretty linear.  The prequels got a lot of bad press for being too complex, and I doubt they’ll go that way here.

@Lily Snape

I try to not be a killjoy because I know people here and elsewhere love the speculation aspect. Especially when it gets into tropes you see in mythology, fairy tales, or Star Wars EU. But these movies are more like silent films with how much of the narrative is carried by the score, the cinematography/editing, and the actor's faces. If I do speculate, it's based on following the writers, the previous film's characters/plots/themes, and the larger cinematic influences on the Saga. I don't doubt that the ST is setting up a scenario where the Emperor wants/needs something out of Rey to finally accomplish his dastardly plans and that it's also set up Ben's "too much of his father's heart in him" arc as a complicated/morally dark character to end up at her side to offer support/protection. But beyond that, I'm pretty skeptical that we can predict that Matt Smith is a surprise cameo as a crucial character based on a handful of conflicting trade press/newspaper articles when we don't even know still what Richard E. Grant is doing.
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Post by AhsokaTano Yesterday at 7:47 am

Ok this is going to be a prediction influenced by the new marvel/Disney Loki novel released few weeks ago ( where I am so far ) and what I believe to be huge foreshadowing for TROS just like Aladdin , toy story and lion king were .

Firstly I have to say the Loki novel so far is like a reylo fiction . Seriously his relationship with Amora the sorceress ( who teaches Loki magic tricks )the passion and his feelings regarding her are just wow! (or as Loki calls her the enchantress ). She has him like a quivering , trembling mess .She calls him trickster and he calls her enchantress. He’s completely bewitched by her but why am I mentioning this ? Because they are parted by Odin ( the father figure ) and she is banished to earth but lo and behold I’ve just got to the part in the novel where Loki on a mission on earth has just found her and it’s just wow with the emotions .

Loki can’t believe that “across the realms “he has found her . It Made me think of across the stars ( Padme and Anakin ), across the universe that Dominic Monaghan hinted at in a tweet ( reylo ?). Anyway am posting some excerpts below of the novel and would recommend it if you like Loki but also because I honestly think Disney are foreshadowing themes and ideas for TROS through their other works . Loki is very human in this and it’s very funny in parts too - it’s his story after all. Love the relationship with his mother in this and how Frigga teaches him magic ( what I always wanted between Ben and leia Sad sob ! )and the discussions about magic could be discussions about the force to be honest . Moreover there are collectors in this like there are in Star Wars but here they are archaeologists.

Finally the biggest possible foreshadowing theme I’ve also found in the novel is Loki and the sleepers . People who seem dead but aren’t - like they are waiting to rise . You cannot tell me this is coincidence on Disney’s part . Moreover and I nearly cried reading this Loki not only later resurrects himself ( as we know from the marvel films ) but he can “ awaken “ the sleepers . Like Jesus awakening Lazarus. He can resurrect others before the huge miracle /magic of resurrecting himself .

This has got to be huge foreshadowing just like we had with Aladdin and the lion king . I cannot wait to get a novel about kylo /Ben and hear his point of view regarding Rey( hope it’s like Loki’s). Remember kylo says in TFA “ it is you “ in the snow fight in the novel like he’s known her all his life . Like she is part of him .I love you

Loki and Amora /Enchantress:

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Loki and the sleepers ( the magical case he is sent to investigate by Odin in 19th century London ) :
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Loki and his mother and magic :

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How Frigga and Odin balance each other:
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And finally the warriors that Loki finds in the British museum with their swords - swords exchanged in marriage instead of rings or necklaces because that’s the way of the warrior . Have mentioned this before :

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Very interesting stuff everyone and Frigga like Luke can project herself somewhere else ( Loki learns this too eventually). Noticed too the sleepers and police have dogs just like in the story of the seven sleepers of Ephesus who were awakened after hundreds of years .
I don’t think this stuff is coincidence. Disney are giving us lots of food for thought throughout all their works . Smile
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Post by AhsokaTano Today at 4:01 am

Hey all , Ok I found something major in the Disney Loki book by Mackenzi Lee but before I post it just wanted to say the scene between Loki and Amora at her stage show and she’s dressed as a medium reminded me of a similar scene you have in Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte . Yes Jane Eyre . Where Rochester dresses up as a medium to find out Jane’s feelings . Then it got me thinking about the festival and the necklace leaks . What if the alien is someone on the pay of the first order or it’s even Kylo himself - a prince in disguise ? The necklace has a tracking device and that’s why kylo snatches it back but maybe he does it seductively ?
Anyway see the scene below with Loki and Amora as fortune teller - across the realms they find each other .

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I could see a scene similar to that playing out where it’s in duplicity like in Jane Eyre but it reveals their feelings .

Anyway the big possible spoiler in this book that may be relevant to TROS ( I personally think so ) is that Amora is like a magic “ vampire “. She is the one who is keeping the sleepers dead . In essence to feed her magic she lives off the energy of others . And Loki doesn’t know what to do . He wants to help her because he loves her and find another way .
I could totally see this tapping into TROS - if Rey and Kylo are like a dyad for the force are their powers being amplified off the life force of everyone else ? In essence like vampires ? Or is this the dark side only ? Maybe it’s both sides ? Maybe this is what it does ? For some to have the level of force powers that Kylo and Rey have , it takes from the life force of others . This is probably what Luke meant when he said the force did not belong to the Jedi . It should in essence belong to everyone. If so is this where Finn comes in ? We are told we are going to be given earth shattering twists in this film . Maybe both kylo and Rey have to die or be exiled or lose their powers in some way if it is feeding into life force of everyone.
Why am I bringing this up if it’s in a new Loki novel published by Disney /marvel because two things - foreshadowing on Disney’s part for TROS and this is not new - in the comics we have seen this theme come up again and again - the vampiric nature of the force if you wield and manipulate it because it has to take that energy from elsewhere . Moreover like the sleepers in the Loki novel we have sleepers in Star Wars ie those drawn to Baatu gathering there and also the grysks and what they were doing there before with the kids in hibernation chambers ( sleepers again )and I guess you could even tap into that with the awakening theme . Maybe the three awakened - Rey , Ben and Finn will take down the sorceror together ?
Anyway here are the excerpts about what Amora is doing . Am expecting all manner of duplicity , trickery and illusion in TROS on a bigger scale than phantom
Menace - as the indigo chakra illusion will pervade this film until the real reality is revealed . Will talk more about Star Wars and chakras in the ST trilogy and tarot section . In meantime too as if to reinforce this view of sorcery , illusions and tricks look at that image of kylo below from Age of Resistance comic he looks like a magician /sorceror in his meditation .


Amora magic vampire feeding off energy of others and causing the sleepers :
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Kylo meditating in Age of Resistance comic :
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Loki Novel am referring to in my references:
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AhsokaTano
AhsokaTano
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

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Date d'inscription : 2017-12-13
Localisation : London UK

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