TFA BTS Sneak Peaks Released!

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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 10:17 am

@Kalianah wrote:
@vaderito wrote:I just watched the Documentary.

JJ gravely says about Han Slaying:"It was necessary. TFA isn't just about the Force awakening in a young woman but also the DS awakening in the villain".

Ford said that Han had to make a sacrifice for emotional weight and to help realize great potential that AD's character has. Along those lines.

This is the main thing that gives me pause about all of the redemption stuff - not that it doesn't have LOADS of evidence, but that they might just be building a very complex villain that is tragic - in a way that I don't think we ever full got to experience with Anakin. Because Adam Driver can do some amazing stuff, he wants complexity and weight in his roles and he never would have signed on without it.

And the fact that JJ keeps emphasizing that it was the birth of a villain and a hero...I think it's basically for TFA alone and not indicative of their later roles, but a part of me does have to acknowledge that they could just be going full steam ahead on the complex villain and no redemption. Have the Solo legacy be a complete tragedy.

Yeah - and that would be pretty much the depressing Jacen Solo story all over again. I've said this several times before, but if they go this way with Kylo/Ben, I'm done with Star Wars and I'm not even kidding. I can't think of anything more pessimistic and gloomy than a trajectory of this kind... Way to suck out all the hope and magic out of the story.

Don't get me wrong, I've got my fair share of depressing and tragic stories that I love, but this context ain't it. No
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Post by BastilaBey on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 10:28 am

@Darth Dingbat I agree, Jacen's story - as depressing as it was - made sense for the EU. Those books are primarily marketed towards adult fans and have a darker feel. The films are built on hope and are essentially fairytales for children. I know ROTS had to end like it did to show how Anakin fell, but there's no set path they absolutely have to follow with Kylo. They could just show him descending into full on villainy over three films, but that just doesn't seem very interesting or rewarding.


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Post by CienaRee on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 10:40 am

I agree.ghe EU is filled with very complex story lines so having Jacen go full in dark wasn't something as tragic as it would be in the context of the SW movie.Plus Jacen left a legacy in his daughter Allana.He had the opportunity to live his life,fall in love,etc.Han and Leia also had one remain inning child Jaina.Now Anakin Solos's death was absolutely tragic and something that shouldn't have happened,he died so young which would be similar to what might happen sigh Kylo if they decide to kill him off.He never got the chance to live. A life that was free from a child abusers whspering in his ear.Not only that but Han and Leia's legacy would be completely destroyed.If they plan on going such a dark oath with Kylo the least they could have done was give Han and Leia more children(seriously I admire Leia for not going completly crazy after everything she's suffered)not that they could replace Kylo but at least the audience will have that to hold on.Imagine going back to re watch their love story knowing it would end in tragedy(it's enough already they had Kylo kill him).Kylo and Han/Leia deserve better than that.

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Post by Darth Rowan on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 10:45 am

@Kalianah wrote:
@vaderito wrote:I just watched the Documentary.

JJ gravely says about Han Slaying:"It was necessary. TFA isn't just about the Force awakening in a young woman but also the DS awakening in the villain".

This is the main thing that gives me pause about all of the redemption stuff - not that it doesn't have LOADS of evidence, but that they might just be building a very complex villain that is tragic - in a way that I don't think we ever full got to experience with Anakin. Because Adam Driver can do some amazing stuff, he wants complexity and weight in his roles and he never would have signed on without it.

And the fact that JJ keeps emphasizing that it was the birth of a villain and a hero...I think it's basically for TFA alone and not indicative of their later roles, but a part of me does have to acknowledge that they could just be going full steam ahead on the complex villain and no redemption. Have the Solo legacy be a complete tragedy.

@Kalianah, I completely agree. I am still hoping that there will be a redemption arc for Ren, but by no means is this a lock, imo. There is always a possibility that JJ's comments about "building a villain" could mean exactly that. And as you say, if you're going to have a charismatic, complex and tragic villain, you cast a guy like Adam Driver for that role. If you think about it, among the actors of his generation he is probably the one best equipped to be most effective at breaking our collective heart if it turns out that he's going to be THE villain of the ST.

A lot of us like to think that Adam Driver was spruced up and his already unique looks were enhanced in order to make him shippable and a clear romantic lead. I agree it's the more likely possibility, but then the obvious alternative is this: they could have made him as beautiful as possible in order to contrast the tragedy of his downfall if he does become further corrupted. And it would be that much more shocking if they disfigure him more later. I don't think this is likely, but it is certainly possible.

All of this said, I prefer to dwell on happier alternatives. XD
I do think that TFA has placed a burden on the ST to "do right" by Han, and especially by Leia. I do think that it is unlikely that either Finn or Rey is a Skywalker (a conversation for another thread) and we need at least one Skywalker for the ST and beyond. If Kylo is it, unlikely that he will just die in villainy. Because of all of this and more things we've discussed, I remain optimistic.

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Post by vaderito on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 11:03 am

Guys, as pointed out, movies are not EU, they are 4 quadrant and they are major franchise. This means they sell merchandise which is far more than EU books could ever hope to sell. EU was for die-hard fans. Movies are for everyone. Ben is the last Skywalker-Solo which Jacen wasn't. That should clue you in where they are going with the character. Also, his daddy is getting his own spin-off franchise, Young Han. You seriously think that they'll give Han a sour closure where he is killed by his raging lunatic of unrepentant son who later dies a miserable death? Think again.

The ending of Secrets of TFA has Ford say that SW movies are a family history. Cue family montage that goes in this order:

Falcon flies
Finn and Poe hug
Rey and Fin hug
Rey catches the saber
Finn lights the saber
X wings above water
Finn looks back (when leaving on Takodana)
Rey kisses Finn's forehead
Ben unmasks (for Han)
Maz holds Rey's hand
Chewie hugs Leia
Luke looks on
Han and Leia hug
Rey and BB8 walk into the sunset

"We'll see each other again. I believe that."

No Snoke, no Phasma, no Hux, no Storm Troopers. Only the family.


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Post by Kalianah on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 11:08 am

Well said, and I definitely agree with you - it's just that I have to look at the direct quotes and look at the two possible interpretations (if there aren't more) of them.

Ultimately, Star Wars is about hope and I highly doubt they would go down SUCH a dark path as to make Kylo Ren/Ben Solo completely irredeemable.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 02 Apr 2016, 11:12 am

They can say whatever they want but they included Ben in family montage while not a single bad guy or even bad guy ship made it. That means something.
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