Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by Saracene on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 8:39 pm

I think it would have been possible to keep Poe around in TLJ without damaging Finn’s arc if he was kept in a minor role same as TFA. Before TLJ the general expectation was that Finn would head the Resistance storyline and Rey would head the force storyline. Instead it elevated Poe to another lead, giving him his own character arc and introducing his own supporting character to interact with.
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Post by whisperingwillow on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 9:05 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:I just read very quickly the Snoke comics on my phone. I just could not wait to be at home tonight to read it. I love it. Probably should go in the novel thread, but I can't access it right now and there are very interesting bits and pieces in it. Nothing spoilery, but it does make you want to know more. And the drawing style is nice. I will put spoilers on my highlights, just for the people who want to read it first.

Spoiler:

- Snoke knows about Dagobah. How??
- When Ben expresses surprise at Snoke seemingly having respect for Luke, he answers that Luke has earned his respect and his fear (how??) and adds "If I had your uncle by my side instead of you, the galaxy would have been mine a long time ago." What a nasty piece of s***.
- Snoke is physically violent with Ben - which we knew even if we hadn't seen it -, he punches him in the face when he dares trying to discuss his order to leave the mask behind.
- Ben does strike down Luke in the cave but not his parents. He lashes out at a tree instead and destroys the cave (Rey can't go there, now). Snoke is happy because he shows anger and determination ("you won't need other apprentices" he tells Snoke after he tells him that he might have like to take other apprentices here), but that probably also showed him that Ben would still rather destroy something else as his parents hence the disguised order to kill Han in TFA.

The profile at the end is also playing with the audience "All of these things are a mystery. Perhaps they will always be." Hear the fans screaming (me included)?
@SanghaRen



Wow, they really did it, they chose to explore Ben's past in the comic instead of showing it on the big screen for the worldwide audience to see. Now we will have to watch the past of Poe (a supporting character in TFA) and his love interest in TROS, the final movie of Ben's family saga. Yeet.
@OrionStars
There's nothing in this comic that wasn't literally in TLJ or directly inferable from TLJ. I can't even call this exploring Ben's past, it's just a look deeper into his relationship with Snoke. There are multiple scenes in TLJ in which Snoke speaks to Ben exactly like this and way more detail on how Ben's history with Luke shaped his inability to walk away from Snoke. This is how abusers operate. It all ties together, really. As it should.

Poe's past and his relationship with Zorii is probably going to be largely comic relief with a touch of drama surrounding Poe's life before he joined the Resistance. In fact, knowing what we do about the Rey, Kylo and Palpatine side of things I wouldn't be surprised if the Resistance gang (+ the droids) had to support a lot of the levity in the script. That doesn't mean they'll only have comedy and action to play (I'm sure Finn will have more emotional resonance in his relationship with Jannah, another ex storm trooper), but the drama will have to be divided appropriately. John Williams did mention that there would be some comedy between Rey and Kylo so I guess we'll see what that means.
@FrolickingFizzgig


I wish we could have more of the relationship between Leia and her real son Ben Solo in TLJ, why she gave him up, why their family fell apart, etc, but no they forced us to see the relationship between Leia and her surrogate son Poe plus how he was struggling to take Leia's role instead, it already annoyed me in TLJ, a character who was supposed to die in TFA but the actor who played him was hot so yeahhh, the rest is history.
@OrionStars
I don't think it ever would have been the plan to explore Leia's past or relationship with Ben in TLJ because the writers entered the ST with the purpose of making a film about Han, a film about Luke and then a film about Leia. Leia's was meant to be the conclusion (and I believe it still will be based on what JJ and others have said).

I agree that not killing off Poe in TFA was a mistake, but not for the same reason as you. It damaged Finn's whole story the most, imo. He was meant to sort of take Poe's place as a Resistance hero climbing the ranks, but then Oscar asked to stick around so JJ extended his role. Finn ende up having what was unique about his story arc (Stormtrooper past/Resistance her) stripped away by pairing him up with Poe. Heck, Rian realized this too and made Rose to compensate, but Poe is always a step ahead of Finn so it feels as though Finn is often treading old water.
@FrolickingFizzgig

^^^ This. Poe isn't the reason Leia and Ben's story has yet to be told. That was (and I certain about this) one of the main points of episode 9. I don't believe it was ever LF's intention to not cover that in episode 9 but Carrie's death made it impossible for them to do the way they orginally wanted to. Had Carrie not died we could see Kylo and Leia's relationship play out on the screen and have no reason to be worried it wouldn't be addressed as Han and Kylo and Luke and Kylo were in 7 and 8.

Poe should have died in 7 as planned (I also believe they should kill him off in 9 by the 3rd act to give Finn his time to shine and lead) but they didn't and it hurt Finn's character in 8. It truly had no effect on Ben and Leia (because that story was planned for 9). It is unlucky that we now won't maybe be able to have all we wanted with that story in 9 but it isn't because of Poe and Leia.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 1:12 am

I think that with Leia gone Poe will step up as leader, and Finn will get his chance to shine.
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Post by californiagirl on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 1:40 am

The Resistance plot has Poe, Finn, Rose, now Jannah and possibly Zorii, it's possible Billie's role is beefed up, whatever role Leia has, and we don't even know what Dominic's character is. It will be interesting to see how the roles and arcs get divided up among all those people.

We see Rey with the others on the forest planet at the very beginning, and on Pasaana, which also seems very early on. But after that? We've already seen her alone with Kylo, and that starts probably a third to halfway though. They've outright said Rey feels out of place, and the cast doesn't even know what went down between Rey and Kylo, since there's scenes the supporting cast wasn't invited to.

Still, I doubt they'll go for the three-pronged plot like in TLJ. Having just two throughlines will be better for a final story that already has so many things to do.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:38 am

It's definitely an interesting contrast with who JJ recruited for the ST and how well the story did/didn't use them. Gwendolyn Christie is insanely charismatic. But her contributions were far more in the press tours than anything Phasma ever did on screen. Oscar Isaac managed to sweet talk JJ into not killing off Poe and same thing. Poe's a dud and stole away what should've been Finn's character arc - but Oscar's the Internet's boyfriend and coming from a family of old school fanboys. He's more than happy to play the decoy 3rd of the trio for SWCC and D23 than the actual 3rd trio member because the press/fans love him.

In regards to Rey Skywalker, yeah that's a little too 19th Century British literature for my taste. Rey adopting that last name makes it feel like her will they or won't they with Ben, it may as well be a little weird like he's marrying his family's ward. Not to mention how she doesn't really have much of a strong connection to Luke. She actually ended up disliking him whereas Han is the one who was kind and tried to mentor her. Even with the "too much of his father in him" theme they've been hitting at with the Solo name, the point felt like it was time for the story to move past that fixation. My assumption has been the "end of the Saga" is about ending the cycle started narratively in TPM with the separation of mother and son, the family elevation by the Jedi into heroes/legends because of the Chosen One prophecy, and the Emperor's first moves across the chess board in manipulating/eliminating various family members as opponents against his master plan. I can definitely see something like "takes the last name as the new title for Force wielders independent of affiliation with an elite group like the Jedi." Or gawd, Rey has no last name so she takes that one. But blech, it just feels like it opens up a can of worms if it's used for any other purpose than Ben's vow to finish what his grandfather (the first generation in the cycle) started.
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Post by Dar-ren19 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 4:09 am

@snufkin wrote:It's definitely an interesting contrast with who JJ recruited for the ST and how well the story did/didn't use them. Gwendolyn Christie is insanely charismatic. But her contributions were far more in the press tours than anything Phasma ever did on screen. Oscar Isaac managed to sweet talk JJ into not killing off Poe and same thing. Poe's a dud and stole away what should've been Finn's character arc - but Oscar's the Internet's boyfriend and coming from a family of old school fanboys. He's more than happy to play the decoy 3rd of the trio for SWCC and D23 than the actual 3rd trio member because the press/fans love him.

In regards to Rey Skywalker, yeah that's a little too 19th Century British literature for my taste. Rey adopting that last name makes it feel like her will they or won't they with Ben, it may as well be a little weird like he's marrying his family's ward. Not to mention how she doesn't really have much of a strong connection to Luke. She actually ended up disliking him whereas Han is the one who was kind and tried to mentor her. Even with the "too much of his father in him" theme they've been hitting at with the Solo name, the point felt like it was time for the story to move past that fixation. My assumption has been the "end of the Saga" is about ending the cycle started narratively in TPM with the separation of mother and son, the family elevation by the Jedi into heroes/legends because of the Chosen One prophecy, and the Emperor's first moves across the chess board in manipulating/eliminating various family members as opponents against his master plan. I can definitely see something like "takes the last name as the new title for Force wielders independent of affiliation with an elite group like the Jedi." Or gawd, Rey has no last name so she takes that one. But blech, it just feels like it opens up a can of worms if it's used for any other purpose than Ben's vow to finish what his grandfather (the first generation in the cycle) started.
@snufkin

Agreed with all you wrote here. Besides, why does she need a last name? I still don't get that... wierdass paternalistic custom that shouldn't be even part of the picture. Rey... the name itself is complete. It needs no other.
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Post by Gemini on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:42 am

https://www.starwars.com/news/age-of-resistance-rey-rose-preview



So this is quite exciting, I've always felt and said since 2015/16 that Reys connection and unspoken bond with with Leia is hope, her only hope with Ben.

It's good to see it officially said.

Imo the unspoken bonds in TFA were always (I've said loads in the past but I'll recap)

Leia knew Rey was the only hope to save Ben and find Luke and return him to the fight, that's what the hug was about and that's why she sent Rey to get Luke  and didnt go herself.

Han, Rey was the daughter he never had/ han was the father rey never had. More recently I think there are connections to Qira.

Luke, Rey was the herald and his call to adventure as well as him being her teacher.

Kylo it was romantic and a deep and a saviour. A  deep connection, one which probably has a bigger explanation.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:47 am

So let me get the new spoilers from JW & MSW and or Jedi Praxis correct, someone please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

The Saga ends Rey nobody is really a Palpatine who takes on the name Skywalker and Ben Solo is no where to be found or DEAD?

Is that correct?
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:57 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:So let me get the new spoilers from JW & MSW and or Jedi Praxis correct, someone please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

The Saga ends Rey nobody is really a Palpatine who takes on the name Skywalker and Ben Solo is no where to be found or DEAD?

Is that correct?
@spacebaby45678


Yeah, it's true, all of it, and don't forget that resistance friends will show up on Tatooine (?!) for a group selfie under the binary suns at the end because it's pottery, it's rhythm, ehehehe
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Post by Lovely_Rose on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:59 am

JediPraxis insists on all that while MSW is backing up everything but Ben staying dead.
Something is definitely off about that narrative. It feels almost insulting to the Skywalkers if Ben is dead but Rey inherits the name as a Palpatine? Nothing against Rey personally at all but it just seems somewhat cruel to Anakin, Padme, etc. I don’t want Rey to replace Ben but to be beside him / be a part of his legacy.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:04 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:So let me get the new spoilers from JW & MSW and or Jedi Praxis correct, someone please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

The Saga ends Rey nobody is really a Palpatine who takes on the name Skywalker and Ben Solo is no where to be found or DEAD?

Is that correct?
@spacebaby45678


Yeah, it's true, all of it, and don't forget that resistance friends will show up on Tatooine (?!) for a group selfie under the binary suns at the end because it's pottery, it's rhythm, ehehehe
@OrionStars

So hold up... According to Jason Ward where is Ben Solo when Rey is on Tatooine declaring herself a Skywalker I am unclear on that
I don't see anywhere Jason has said there is a Reylo happy ending..

Please correct me if I am wrong
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:22 am

Literally no one knows anything concrete about the third act (even if they claim they do, the gaps in the leaks for the final act are a mile wide). They haven't said there's a "Reylo happy ending" because they don't know. I doubt they even know the real ending.

JediPaxis either has a source that is very arrogant, or he is very arrogant himself to claim that his information is not inaccurate or incomplete (to be fair, he does clarify that it could be missing things and lack context when pressed, but he still gives off an air of certainty that is annoying, especially considering he's put his information together in the most nonsensical way when comparing leakers).

I'm not claiming grand conspiracy or being fed false information or anything like that. I'm claiming that there must be scenes that were closed/tight set and on a need to know basis. For example, most of the big, leaked Rey and Kylo scenes appear to be larger set pieces that involve fights or some other kind of action. There are very few leaks of smaller, intimate scenes (that I'm aware of). This doesn't tell me there is a lack of those scenes; it tells me that one of their sources is probably involved in stunt coordination or something similar and haven't seen any more minor intimate scenes. They wouldn't have a reason to. Just like John Boyega said he hasn't seen a lot of the scenes involving Rey and Kylo.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:23 am

Okay, why are they giving Kylo such a sympathetic back story if they're just going to kill him off?
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:25 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:So let me get the new spoilers from JW & MSW and or Jedi Praxis correct, someone please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

The Saga ends Rey nobody is really a Palpatine who takes on the name Skywalker and Ben Solo is no where to be found or DEAD?

Is that correct?
@spacebaby45678


Yeah, it's true, all of it, and don't forget that resistance friends will show up on Tatooine (?!) for a group selfie under the binary suns at the end because it's pottery, it's rhythm, ehehehe
@OrionStars

So hold up... According to Jason Ward  where is Ben Solo when Rey is on Tatooine declaring herself a Skywalker I am unclear on that
I don't see anywhere Jason has said there is a Reylo happy ending..

Please correct me if I am wrong
@spacebaby45678

According to JediPraxis, there is no happy ending for Reylo and Kylo, Kylo meets his permanent dead, Vader's lineage is gone with Kylo. Jason Ward still doesn't know if JP's ending is the actual ending for the Skywalker family, but he has spoiled a more terrible ending, Rey Palpatine will declare herself as Rey Skywalker. Basically, she will become Shmi 2.0 and soon she will start another Skywalker family which one day will have another Vader if LFL wants to milk Vader more. The situation sounds hopeful (for the future business of LFL) like KK said because the Skywalker will be their slaves forever in one way or another.
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Post by Gemini on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:29 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Okay, why are they giving Kylo such a sympathetic back story if they're just going to kill him off?
@motherofpearl1

Why is rey supposed to be the only  hope if a palpatine wins and kylo is stone cold dead?

I smell BS
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:37 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:So let me get the new spoilers from JW & MSW and or Jedi Praxis correct, someone please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

The Saga ends Rey nobody is really a Palpatine who takes on the name Skywalker and Ben Solo is no where to be found or DEAD?

Is that correct?
@spacebaby45678


Yeah, it's true, all of it, and don't forget that resistance friends will show up on Tatooine (?!) for a group selfie under the binary suns at the end because it's pottery, it's rhythm, ehehehe
@OrionStars

So hold up... According to Jason Ward  where is Ben Solo when Rey is on Tatooine declaring herself a Skywalker I am unclear on that
I don't see anywhere Jason has said there is a Reylo happy ending..

Please correct me if I am wrong
@spacebaby45678

According to JediPraxis, there is no happy ending for Reylo and Kylo, Kylo meets his permanent dead, Vader's lineage is gone with Kylo. Jason Ward still doesn't know if JP's ending is the actual ending for the Skywalker family, but he has spoiled a more terrible ending, Rey Palpatine will declare herself as Rey Skywalker. Basically, she will become Shmi 2.0 and soon she will start another Skywalker family which one day will have another Vader if LFL wants to milk Vader more. The situation sounds hopeful (for the future business of LFL) like KK said because the Skywalker will be their slaves forever in one way or another.
@OrionStars

I can't see Rey married to Ben Solo taking the Skywalker name wouldn't she just be Rey Solo? Palpatine always was a liar and this ending makes Rey a liar, an IMPOSTER...kill off all the Skywalkers and have his progeny take their place and the name they have made for themselves Palpy's ultimate revenge... Endgame... he won. Close credits...

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 31 Giphy

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:38 am

The new dudebro fanfic/rumors end with "about Ben’s return and Rey’s new last name."

And? lol dudebros are always so close. Um...how can Rey get a new last name, and Ben return all at once? Huh? huh?!!! haha lol
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:43 am

So Rey only gets a proper last name when she marries Ben, or when she links herself to the Skywalkers?

Both options are paternalistic
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:49 am

Three things ....
Why would Rey take the name Skywalker when she had less of a bond with Luke than with Han?
Why all this 'yin and yang' imagery if Rey ends up alone?
And finally....Force lightning is a dark side power. Snoke used it, Palpatine used it. So if Rey uses it....it shows seriously dark Rey talents. Even Kylo hasn't thrown Force lightning. Yet.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:09 am

@Gemini wrote:https://www.starwars.com/news/age-of-resistance-rey-rose-preview



So this is quite exciting, I've always felt and said since 2015/16 that Reys connection and unspoken bond with with Leia is hope, her only hope with Ben.

It's good to see it officially said.

Imo the unspoken bonds in TFA were always (I've said loads in the past but I'll recap)

Leia knew Rey was the only hope to save Ben and find Luke and return him to the fight, that's what the hug was about and that's why she sent Rey to get Luke  and didnt go herself.

Han, Rey was the daughter he never had/ han was the father rey never had. More recently I think there are connections to Qira.

Luke, Rey was the herald and his call to adventure as well as him being her teacher.

Kylo it was romantic and a deep and a saviour. A  deep connection, one which probably has a bigger explanation.
@Gemini

“The whole idea there I think is that they have a special connection that they don’t even know about. There was an earlier idea at one point that Leia knows who [Rey] is. And we sort of took that out because it didn’t make any sense.” – Maryann Brandon.. TFA film editor


I remember you saying this back in the day.. 2017?
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Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:21 am

Well, here’s an actual legit merch leak. New info on Rey and Kylo from the the black of Black Series boxes:

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 31 1d744a10

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/d37fnf/new_info_on_rey_and_kylo_from_back_of_black/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

So instead of sitting around on his throne (which I didn’t expect from Kylo tbh, he’s a man of action), he’s searching for some weird force stuff. There’s that Oracle leak that I keep coming back to as well. Does this lend credence to Kylo accidentally unleashing Palpatine? And Dark Rey may be a vision, but it certainly seems like it’s going to be an undercurrent of her entire arc in TROS.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:56 am

So ....double bladed sabre on Sith warrior.
Wow....what if Rey uses it in a fight, and that's actually what was shown in the trailer, not a vision?
She did use Kylo's red sabre I TLJ after all.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:05 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:So ....double bladed sabre on Sith warrior.
Wow....what if Rey uses it in a fight, and that's actually what was shown in the trailer, not a vision?
She did use Kylo's red sabre I TLJ after all.
@motherofpearl1
Apparently they've attached lightsabers to costumes that didn't come with them before so it doesn't necessarily mean anything yet.
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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 31 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by OrionStars on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:08 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Okay, why are they giving Kylo such a sympathetic back story if they're just going to kill him off?
@motherofpearl1

To be fair, they gave Hux a sympathetic childhood too. That's why I hate to see them cover the story of Ben in the comic, nobody cares about what happened in those comics except the fans, even Domhnall Gleeson didn't read the comic of his own character and didn't know they gave his character a last name in the comic. I can't believe I had spent a lot of money just to see Ben for like ...15 minutes in TLJ, then I had to endure watching Poe's childish rebellion behind female elders' back and Finn's freeing alien horse so the horse can be captured again in a more glorious way. God, I was such a desperate Ben's fan.

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:So let me get the new spoilers from JW & MSW and or Jedi Praxis correct, someone please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

The Saga ends Rey nobody is really a Palpatine who takes on the name Skywalker and Ben Solo is no where to be found or DEAD?

Is that correct?
@spacebaby45678


Yeah, it's true, all of it, and don't forget that resistance friends will show up on Tatooine (?!) for a group selfie under the binary suns at the end because it's pottery, it's rhythm, ehehehe
@OrionStars

So hold up... According to Jason Ward  where is Ben Solo when Rey is on Tatooine declaring herself a Skywalker I am unclear on that
I don't see anywhere Jason has said there is a Reylo happy ending..

Please correct me if I am wrong
@spacebaby45678

According to JediPraxis, there is no happy ending for Reylo and Kylo, Kylo meets his permanent dead, Vader's lineage is gone with Kylo. Jason Ward still doesn't know if JP's ending is the actual ending for the Skywalker family, but he has spoiled a more terrible ending, Rey Palpatine will declare herself as Rey Skywalker. Basically, she will become Shmi 2.0 and soon she will start another Skywalker family which one day will have another Vader if LFL wants to milk Vader more. The situation sounds hopeful (for the future business of LFL) like KK said because the Skywalker will be their slaves forever in one way or another.
@OrionStars

I can't see Rey married to Ben Solo taking the Skywalker name wouldn't she just be Rey Solo? Palpatine always was a liar and this ending makes Rey a liar, an IMPOSTER...kill off all the Skywalkers and have his progeny take their place and the name they have made for themselves    Palpy's ultimate revenge... Endgame... he won. Close credits...

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 31 Giphy


That ending is definitely ironic and horrible but as the other posters said, JJ could easily do it without any proper reasons because he's the crowd-pleaser, he wants to appease everyone and every part of the fandom, so that kind of ending isn't impossible for JJ tho.
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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 31 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rawpowah on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:16 am

So Palpatine wins, huh. Mess.
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