Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by Saracene on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:32 pm

@ZioRen wrote:Rey giving herself the last name Skywalker doesn't work for me either, and I maintain that it's rather weird if Reylo is a go. I WAS a proponent of Skywalker coming to mean something beyond the family, a term for a new generation of Force users with certain ideals, but that's not the same as taking on someone's last name as your own when you didn't have that strong of a relationship with the name's bearer at all. Maybe this "Rey Skywalker" thing will come off as sort of a mix of both? Like Kylo "Ren" in the sense of being attached to the Knights of Ren. But I'd want it to go beyond just her if that was the case.
@ZioRen

I’d be fine with that scenario as well, if, like you say, Skywalker becomes almost something like a title or job description.

I just don’t think it makes sense to go, “Rey chooses Skywalker name to avoid being defined by any single person” when your last name *is* about your relationships with other people? Whether it’s your parents’ name or the name of the person you’re married to. Even ST itself is affirming this with what’s happening with Ben and his rejection of his father’s name (and the name he chooses instead is not tied to any real person or family). Of course people in real life can change their last name for a reason other than marriage, but even then I don’t think they reach out for some big glittery famous name.
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:35 pm

@Saracene wrote:I’m not really worried about the leaks re: Ben’s permanent death.

But Rey choosing to define herself by the Skywalker name really doesn’t work for me at all. Taking on one of the most famous names in the galaxy that carries so much history and weight strikes me as an act of incredible arrogance. It’s not just there for any random person to adopt, just because it’s currently without use.
@Saracene


It really depends on which side you had chosen at the start, I've seen plenty of people on Reddit said they're cool with the idea of Rey taking the Skywalker legacy and adopting the last name. So if you're from the part of the fandom that deems Kylo is unworthy/ Kylo isn't a Skywalker etc. then that leak is a nice ending pale if you're a Kylo/Reylo's fan, then...
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Post by Saracene on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 6:02 pm

@OrionStars wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I’m not really worried about the leaks re: Ben’s permanent death.

But Rey choosing to define herself by the Skywalker name really doesn’t work for me at all. Taking on one of the most famous names in the galaxy that carries so much history and weight strikes me as an act of incredible arrogance. It’s not just there for any random person to adopt, just because it’s currently without use.
@Saracene


It really depends on which side you had chosen at the start, I've seen plenty of people on Reddit said they're cool with the idea of Rey taking the Skywalker legacy and adopting the last name. So if you're from the part of the fandom that deems Kylo is unworthy/ Kylo isn't a Skywalker etc. then that leak is a nice ending pale if you're a Kylo/Reylo's fan, then...
@OrionStars

Well I think that plenty of people just like the idea of the Skywalker name living on and probably won't care if the movie builds up to it organically or not.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 6:09 pm

Then there is this.... So is this an appropriate description for Rey Palpy?

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 33 Tumblr_puxuucBGme1y8hadgo1_1280
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Post by Gemini on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 6:15 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I’m not really worried about the leaks re: Ben’s permanent death.

But Rey choosing to define herself by the Skywalker name really doesn’t work for me at all. Taking on one of the most famous names in the galaxy that carries so much history and weight strikes me as an act of incredible arrogance. It’s not just there for any random person to adopt, just because it’s currently without use.
@Saracene


It really depends on which side you had chosen at the start, I've seen plenty of people on Reddit said they're cool with the idea of Rey taking the Skywalker legacy and adopting the last name. So if you're from the part of the fandom that deems Kylo is unworthy/ Kylo isn't a Skywalker etc. then that leak is a nice ending pale if you're a Kylo/Reylo's fan, then...
@OrionStars

Well I think that plenty of people just like the idea of the Skywalker name living on and probably won't care if the movie builds up to it organically or not.
@Saracene

Mate, I think a lot of fanboys will be happy with that ending for sure even if it doesnt actually get there in a satisfying way. Ive seen people commenting that they love Rey Skywalker (her taking on the name) already. It seems more popular than the reaction to Rey Palpatine...not good :/
.

I'm still not 100% on how I feel about the taking on the name thing. I mean, its fitting with the the title of the movie but that's the only way I'm actually seeing it fit?


@spacebaby45678 wrote:Then there is this.... So is this an appropriate description for Rey Palpy?

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 33 Tumblr_puxuucBGme1y8hadgo1_1280
@spacebaby45678

Descendant of light........ning?

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Post by OrionStars on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 6:52 pm

@nonesuch wrote:I'm pretty puzzled by all the doom-saying on here, tbh. It seems encouraging to me so far, especially when you take into account the more recent information.

The more recent leaks that have come out point towards Kylo being resurrected at the climax of the film, likely thanks to Rey and her healing powers. The one leaker who has pushed the idea of permanent death for Kylo is Jedi Paxis (which he stated while adding the caveat that his knowledge of that part of the film is fuzzy), and even he has since come out to support Jason's information about Rey's healing abilities.

Giving Rey a dark side ancestry increases her affinity with Kylo, since both their journeys will then be about overcoming and atoning for the evil of their grandfathers. It's not about a Palpatine ending up the victor as a Skywalker loses. It's about a Palpatine and a Skywalker, united through compassion, coming together to defeat the greatest evil through love. Kylo will most likely give his life to save Rey and the galaxy. That sacrifice will then be recognised and rewarded through his resurrection. In short, selfless love will prevail (see: "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love.").

Even Rey Skywalker makes sense to me, tbh. It would be about giving Rey a moment of prevailing self-determination. She is not defined by her ancestry. She is not defined by her relationship to any single person in her life. Instead she chooses to define herself in relation to the qualities evoked by the Skywalker name, including the struggles as well as the great victories. And that's why she chooses to use that name as her own. I think there's something beautiful in that, and hopefully that will come through powerfully in the film itself.

People really just need to take a deep breath and wait to see how all this is executed. Everyone's free to think whatever they like about the leaks, but imo it's not fair to pre-judge the film on the basis of such patchy information.
@nonesuch


I agree, with you, Rey Palpatine chooses to be a part of the Skywalker family and continues to live as a Skywalker so their legacy can keep going on can send a positive message to some extent. No, actually, for me, Rey Palpatine has already sent a positive message. You can say the same with the relationship between Luke and his absent father Vader in OT. But in the long term, basically Rey will be Shmi 2.0, one day they will use her to spawn another stronger, healthier, more powerful Vader in flesh and blood, Anakin won't just be a force ghost anymore. The sequel will become a reboot of a reboot to the entire saga. I know what Hollywood studios are willing to do to secure their business. For example, three years ago, Kevin Feige said he absolutely had no plan for Blade in MCU at least for the next 5 years, but bam, 3 years later, they suddenly brought Blade back, they even invited AA winner Mahershala Ali to play Blade, lol. I'm certainly not one of those dudebros who want to see Rey become a broodmare for them to create a more powerful Vader but if the leak is true, with the death of Ben Solo and the rise of Rey Palpatine Skywalker then the new Vader is inevitable in the future.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:00 pm

@OrionStars wrote:
@nonesuch wrote:I'm pretty puzzled by all the doom-saying on here, tbh. It seems encouraging to me so far, especially when you take into account the more recent information.

The more recent leaks that have come out point towards Kylo being resurrected at the climax of the film, likely thanks to Rey and her healing powers. The one leaker who has pushed the idea of permanent death for Kylo is Jedi Paxis (which he stated while adding the caveat that his knowledge of that part of the film is fuzzy), and even he has since come out to support Jason's information about Rey's healing abilities.

Giving Rey a dark side ancestry increases her affinity with Kylo, since both their journeys will then be about overcoming and atoning for the evil of their grandfathers. It's not about a Palpatine ending up the victor as a Skywalker loses. It's about a Palpatine and a Skywalker, united through compassion, coming together to defeat the greatest evil through love. Kylo will most likely give his life to save Rey and the galaxy. That sacrifice will then be recognised and rewarded through his resurrection. In short, selfless love will prevail (see: "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love.").

Even Rey Skywalker makes sense to me, tbh. It would be about giving Rey a moment of prevailing self-determination. She is not defined by her ancestry. She is not defined by her relationship to any single person in her life. Instead she chooses to define herself in relation to the qualities evoked by the Skywalker name, including the struggles as well as the great victories. And that's why she chooses to use that name as her own. I think there's something beautiful in that, and hopefully that will come through powerfully in the film itself.

People really just need to take a deep breath and wait to see how all this is executed. Everyone's free to think whatever they like about the leaks, but imo it's not fair to pre-judge the film on the basis of such patchy information.
@nonesuch


I agree, with you, Rey Palpatine chooses to be a part of the Skywalker family and continues to live as a Skywalker so their legacy can keep going on can send a positive message to some extent. No, actually, for me, Rey Palpatine has already sent a positive message. You can say the same with the relationship between Luke and his absent father Vader in OT. But in the long term, basically Rey will be Shmi 2.0, one day they will use her to spawn another stronger, healthier, more powerful Vader in flesh and blood, Anakin won't just be a force ghost anymore. The sequel will become a reboot of a reboot to the entire saga. I know what Hollywood studios are willing to do to secure their business. For example, three years ago, Kevin Feige said he absolutely had no plan for Blade in MCU at least for the next 5 years, but bam, 3 years later, they suddenly brought Blade back, they even invited AA winner Mahershala Ali to play Blade, lol. I'm certainly not one of those dudebros who want to see Rey become a broodmare for them to create a more powerful Vader but if the leak is true, with the death of Ben Solo and the rise of Rey Palpatine Skywalker then the new Vader is inevitable in the future.
@OrionStars

What you have to say is compelling. So Rey Nobody Palpy Skywalker SHMI 2.0 does not need Ben's genetic DNA to carry on the line?
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:19 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@nonesuch wrote:I'm pretty puzzled by all the doom-saying on here, tbh. It seems encouraging to me so far, especially when you take into account the more recent information.

The more recent leaks that have come out point towards Kylo being resurrected at the climax of the film, likely thanks to Rey and her healing powers. The one leaker who has pushed the idea of permanent death for Kylo is Jedi Paxis (which he stated while adding the caveat that his knowledge of that part of the film is fuzzy), and even he has since come out to support Jason's information about Rey's healing abilities.

Giving Rey a dark side ancestry increases her affinity with Kylo, since both their journeys will then be about overcoming and atoning for the evil of their grandfathers. It's not about a Palpatine ending up the victor as a Skywalker loses. It's about a Palpatine and a Skywalker, united through compassion, coming together to defeat the greatest evil through love. Kylo will most likely give his life to save Rey and the galaxy. That sacrifice will then be recognised and rewarded through his resurrection. In short, selfless love will prevail (see: "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love.").

Even Rey Skywalker makes sense to me, tbh. It would be about giving Rey a moment of prevailing self-determination. She is not defined by her ancestry. She is not defined by her relationship to any single person in her life. Instead she chooses to define herself in relation to the qualities evoked by the Skywalker name, including the struggles as well as the great victories. And that's why she chooses to use that name as her own. I think there's something beautiful in that, and hopefully that will come through powerfully in the film itself.

People really just need to take a deep breath and wait to see how all this is executed. Everyone's free to think whatever they like about the leaks, but imo it's not fair to pre-judge the film on the basis of such patchy information.
@nonesuch


I agree, with you, Rey Palpatine chooses to be a part of the Skywalker family and continues to live as a Skywalker so their legacy can keep going on can send a positive message to some extent. No, actually, for me, Rey Palpatine has already sent a positive message. You can say the same with the relationship between Luke and his absent father Vader in OT. But in the long term, basically Rey will be Shmi 2.0, one day they will use her to spawn another stronger, healthier, more powerful Vader in flesh and blood, Anakin won't just be a force ghost anymore. The sequel will become a reboot of a reboot to the entire saga. I know what Hollywood studios are willing to do to secure their business. For example, three years ago, Kevin Feige said he absolutely had no plan for Blade in MCU at least for the next 5 years, but bam, 3 years later, they suddenly brought Blade back, they even invited AA winner Mahershala Ali to play Blade, lol. I'm certainly not one of those dudebros who want to see Rey become a broodmare for them to create a more powerful Vader but if the leak is true, with the death of Ben Solo and the rise of Rey Palpatine Skywalker then the new Vader is inevitable in the future.
@OrionStars

What you have to say is compelling. So Rey Nobody Palpy Skywalker SHMI 2.0 does not need Ben's genetic DNA to carry on the line?
@spacebaby45678

Yep, according to the leaker, Vader's bloodline is extinct with the death of Ben. Rey Palpatine will adopt the Skywalker name and start another matriarchal Skywalker family just like Shmi, but this time we will have a force-sensitive Shmi who possesses all the power of Darth Sidious's bloodline.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:32 pm

@OrionStars wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@nonesuch wrote:I'm pretty puzzled by all the doom-saying on here, tbh. It seems encouraging to me so far, especially when you take into account the more recent information.

The more recent leaks that have come out point towards Kylo being resurrected at the climax of the film, likely thanks to Rey and her healing powers. The one leaker who has pushed the idea of permanent death for Kylo is Jedi Paxis (which he stated while adding the caveat that his knowledge of that part of the film is fuzzy), and even he has since come out to support Jason's information about Rey's healing abilities.

Giving Rey a dark side ancestry increases her affinity with Kylo, since both their journeys will then be about overcoming and atoning for the evil of their grandfathers. It's not about a Palpatine ending up the victor as a Skywalker loses. It's about a Palpatine and a Skywalker, united through compassion, coming together to defeat the greatest evil through love. Kylo will most likely give his life to save Rey and the galaxy. That sacrifice will then be recognised and rewarded through his resurrection. In short, selfless love will prevail (see: "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love.").

Even Rey Skywalker makes sense to me, tbh. It would be about giving Rey a moment of prevailing self-determination. She is not defined by her ancestry. She is not defined by her relationship to any single person in her life. Instead she chooses to define herself in relation to the qualities evoked by the Skywalker name, including the struggles as well as the great victories. And that's why she chooses to use that name as her own. I think there's something beautiful in that, and hopefully that will come through powerfully in the film itself.

People really just need to take a deep breath and wait to see how all this is executed. Everyone's free to think whatever they like about the leaks, but imo it's not fair to pre-judge the film on the basis of such patchy information.
@nonesuch


I agree, with you, Rey Palpatine chooses to be a part of the Skywalker family and continues to live as a Skywalker so their legacy can keep going on can send a positive message to some extent. No, actually, for me, Rey Palpatine has already sent a positive message. You can say the same with the relationship between Luke and his absent father Vader in OT. But in the long term, basically Rey will be Shmi 2.0, one day they will use her to spawn another stronger, healthier, more powerful Vader in flesh and blood, Anakin won't just be a force ghost anymore. The sequel will become a reboot of a reboot to the entire saga. I know what Hollywood studios are willing to do to secure their business. For example, three years ago, Kevin Feige said he absolutely had no plan for Blade in MCU at least for the next 5 years, but bam, 3 years later, they suddenly brought Blade back, they even invited AA winner Mahershala Ali to play Blade, lol. I'm certainly not one of those dudebros who want to see Rey become a broodmare for them to create a more powerful Vader but if the leak is true, with the death of Ben Solo and the rise of Rey Palpatine Skywalker then the new Vader is inevitable in the future.
@OrionStars

What you have to say is compelling. So Rey Nobody Palpy Skywalker SHMI 2.0 does not need Ben's genetic DNA to carry on the line?
@spacebaby45678

Yep, according to the leaker, Vader's bloodline is extinct with the death of Ben. Rey Palpatine will adopt the Skywalker name and start another matriarchal Skywalker family just like Shmi, but this time we will have a force-sensitive Shmi who possesses all the power of Darth Sidious's bloodline.
@OrionStars

Yeah, I think this is the ending and makes total sense when compared to DR's comments about the title and the final lines of the movie


"It wasn’t what I was expecting but I would agree it represents a lot of things... I think it will be one of those things and it will be the last few lines of the film and people will be like, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah.'"
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:34 pm

I have relatively little problem with Rey adopting the Skywalker name. Though Ben has the blood of a Skywalker, he's always been associated with the name "Solo" and was never going to identify himself by the Skywalker moniker anyway.

I also have little inherent issue with Rey as a Palpatine. My problem is moreso with how hamfisted it (might) be to retroactively explain what was going on there with Ben's vision and Rey's parents being nobody. At the very least the leakers are making it *sound* pretty hamfisted. I'm really more of a fan of elegant solutions, story resolutions which make you say, "Ahhhh, yes of course!" and the leaks aren't exactly making it sound like that. It makes far more sense to me if Palpatine has basically looked into the hearts of both of these powerful characters, examined both their deepest fears and greatest desires and is saying *just* the right sequence of things to manipulate them to his own end. But that's not because of a problem I have with "Rey Palpatine" persay, moreso the execution.

But again, I'm really questioning this because J.J. tends to like elegant and simplistic (maybe to a fault). While one can argue it's the richer film, TLJ was far more convoluted that TFA. There's many reasons that TFA made so much dang money, and ease of rewatch due to straightforward storytelling is one of them. Now I know J.J. needs to be more innovative this go around, but his style isn't usually so all over the darn place the way these leaks suggest. Time will tell I suppose.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:42 pm

I can see Chris Terrio writing Rey Palpatine tho, he wrote Batman v. Dark Superman Laughing
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Post by Mana on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:48 pm

Well, Rey was pretty upset when she had to accept that her parents were 'nobody'....perhaps she's a snob :'D
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:50 pm

Rey's elevated sense of self is def a Palpy trait.
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Post by Saracene on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:55 pm

@nickandnora wrote:I also have little inherent issue with Rey as a Palpatine. My problem is moreso with how hamfisted it (might) be to retroactively explain what was going on there with Ben's vision and Rey's parents being nobody.
@nickandnora

I actually think it would be very easy to line up the two, by explaining that Rey's parents were indeed lowly junk traders as seen in Ben's vision, but one of them had a famous parent that they may not have even been aware of. I also doubt that any of her parents actually went by the name Palpatine, because that sort of thing tends to attract attention, so Rey would really be a Palpatine by blood rather than an official name that her parents had.

I think that Rey is bound to continue the Skywalker legacy in a sense of their significance to the force/Jedi. I don't see it as a slight to Ben because I don't think that embracing his mighty Skywalker blood and going back to being a Jedi is what his story is building up to. His Skywalker legacy has been portrayed mostly as a terrible burden that screwed up his life and robbed him of a chance to decide what he wants for himself. But the Skywalker saga is also a family saga and IMO Rey can't carry on that family aspect by just adopting the name.
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:57 pm

Can I just say that I keep coming back to and going over that leak that has Rey burying the lightsaber on Tatooine (or is it more than one lightsaber? I don't remember). It's such an odd, odd detail that I kind of weirdly believe mainly because it's so strange and specific. But I have to wonder if it has some kind of significance - as in maybe magical, force significance - with some kind of outcome the leakers aren't privvy to. Because again, it's a detail that kind of sticks out in a major way.

This is sort of assuming the binary sunset is not the actual last scene of the film, which as I've stated, I don't believe it is.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:11 pm

@nickandnora wrote:I have relatively little problem with Rey adopting the Skywalker name. Though Ben has the blood of a Skywalker, he's always been associated with the name "Solo" and was never going to identify himself by the Skywalker moniker anyway.

I also have little inherent issue with Rey as a Palpatine. My problem is moreso with how hamfisted it (might) be to retroactively explain what was going on there with Ben's vision and Rey's parents being nobody. At the very least the leakers are making it *sound* pretty hamfisted. I'm really more of a fan of elegant solutions, story resolutions which make you say, "Ahhhh, yes of course!" and the leaks aren't exactly making it sound like that. It makes far more sense to me if Palpatine has basically looked into the hearts of both of these powerful characters, examined both their deepest fears and greatest desires and is saying *just* the right sequence of things to manipulate them to his own end. But that's not because of a problem I have with "Rey Palpatine" persay, moreso the execution.

But again, I'm really questioning this because J.J. tends to like elegant and simplistic (maybe to a fault). While one can argue it's the richer film, TLJ was far more convoluted that TFA. There's many reasons that TFA made so much dang money, and ease of rewatch due to straightforward storytelling is one of them. Now I know J.J. needs to be more innovative this go around, but his style isn't usually so all over the darn place the way these leaks suggest. Time will tell I suppose.
@nickandnora
It's worth keeping in mind that what we're hearing is not a first-hand account of the film as viewed in its entirety by an intelligent human, it's an account based on set workers describing scenes and actors out-of-context and with their own biases. That information is sometimes passed through several hands before it lands with the leakers themselves, who have to parse meaning from it - something Star Wars leakers are, in my opinion, embarrassingly bad at. Whenever I'm unsure of how something sounds from a reliable source I go back to the post-premiere descriptions of TLJ, which were written first-hand by people who had just seen the film. The first leak in particular omitted character arcs, failed to mention Rey and Kylo's force bond or anything beyond "Kylo kills Snoke and becomes the biggest baddest evil in the galaxy". Like, that's not how it happened at all. If people can describe an actual film so badly then imagine how they can botch describing sequences from story boards, concept art or sets. Even TFA's leaks (which were based on an actual shooting script) had critical errors, such as Kylo just killing Han in cold blood and Rey and Finn fighting Kylo together at the same time in the woods.

There's no way around a "from a certain point of view" answer, but I think I knew that when I heard JJ say he was delving deeper into the story of Rey's background. The most basic narrative isn't changing - Rey's parents were junkers who sold her. The big change here is that Rey's parents apparently did love her and sold her for her protection, and were promptly murdered by some wacky dagger by a currently unknown perpetrator (possibly Ochi, the informant Rey and the gang seek out on Pasaana). It's her grandparent who is, apparently, the important one.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:20 pm

@Dar-ren19 The ironic thing is that when you look at all of the characters between 8 movies, Skywalker was a family line started by a woman. But since that's likely not going to be addressed in TRoS and we know 40+ years' of institutional fan culture associates the name w/one male family member, yeah not crazy about the idea of Rey adopting it. I get the logic behind why it's in the title as the summation of a story about 3 generations of a family whose lives were altered/changed by a situation that will likely be addressed/returned to in the final chapter. But there's so much baggage around that name which one of the few prominent female characters already got thrown her way, without knowing the actual thinking behind it, it just comes off like more "gotta get her into Boy's Club" BS.
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:28 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I have relatively little problem with Rey adopting the Skywalker name. Though Ben has the blood of a Skywalker, he's always been associated with the name "Solo" and was never going to identify himself by the Skywalker moniker anyway.

I also have little inherent issue with Rey as a Palpatine. My problem is moreso with how hamfisted it (might) be to retroactively explain what was going on there with Ben's vision and Rey's parents being nobody. At the very least the leakers are making it *sound* pretty hamfisted. I'm really more of a fan of elegant solutions, story resolutions which make you say, "Ahhhh, yes of course!" and the leaks aren't exactly making it sound like that. It makes far more sense to me if Palpatine has basically looked into the hearts of both of these powerful characters, examined both their deepest fears and greatest desires and is saying *just* the right sequence of things to manipulate them to his own end. But that's not because of a problem I have with "Rey Palpatine" persay, moreso the execution.

But again, I'm really questioning this because J.J. tends to like elegant and simplistic (maybe to a fault). While one can argue it's the richer film, TLJ was far more convoluted that TFA. There's many reasons that TFA made so much dang money, and ease of rewatch due to straightforward storytelling is one of them. Now I know J.J. needs to be more innovative this go around, but his style isn't usually so all over the darn place the way these leaks suggest. Time will tell I suppose.
@nickandnora
It's worth keeping in mind that what we're hearing is not a first-hand account of the film as viewed in its entirety by an intelligent human, it's an account based on set workers describing scenes and actors out-of-context and with their own biases. That information is sometimes passed through several hands before it lands with the leakers themselves, who have to parse meaning from it - something Star Wars leakers are, in my opinion, embarrassingly bad at. Whenever I'm unsure of how something sounds from a reliable source I go back to the post-premiere descriptions of TLJ, which were written first-hand by people who had just seen the film. The first leak in particular omitted character arcs, failed to mention Rey and Kylo's force bond or anything beyond "Kylo kills Snoke and becomes the biggest baddest evil in the galaxy". Like, that's not how it happened at all. If people can describe an actual film so badly then imagine how they can botch describing sequences from story boards, concept art or sets. Even TFA's leaks (which were based on an actual shooting script) had critical errors, such as Kylo just killing Han in cold blood and Rey and Finn fighting Kylo together at the same time in the woods.

There's no way around a "from a certain point of view" answer, but I think I knew that when I heard JJ say he was delving deeper into the story of Rey's background. The most basic narrative isn't changing - Rey's parents were junkers who sold her. The big change here is that Rey's parents apparently did love her and sold her for her protection, and were promptly murdered by some wacky dagger by a currently unknown perpetrator (possibly Ochi, the informant Rey and the gang seek out on Pasaana). It's her grandparent who is, apparently, the important one.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah... it's just not my thing, lol (not even when an intelligent individual such as yourself explains it). It's not the kind of storytelling I enjoy, which I recognize is personal bias. Don't get me wrong, I said months before filming that I thought there might have been something more to what Kylo was telling Rey, it's just that the actual reading of this specifically doesn't do it for me. It's both kind of trite and kind of convoluted to my ears. But that's just what it reads like *now* and I certainly will keep an open mind if and when this is the story that makes it on the screen.

But believe me, I do know that these leaks are like a 6th hand account from the worst sources turned storytellers ever, so I'm not too worried about it.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:48 pm

@nickandnora wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I have relatively little problem with Rey adopting the Skywalker name. Though Ben has the blood of a Skywalker, he's always been associated with the name "Solo" and was never going to identify himself by the Skywalker moniker anyway.

I also have little inherent issue with Rey as a Palpatine. My problem is moreso with how hamfisted it (might) be to retroactively explain what was going on there with Ben's vision and Rey's parents being nobody. At the very least the leakers are making it *sound* pretty hamfisted. I'm really more of a fan of elegant solutions, story resolutions which make you say, "Ahhhh, yes of course!" and the leaks aren't exactly making it sound like that. It makes far more sense to me if Palpatine has basically looked into the hearts of both of these powerful characters, examined both their deepest fears and greatest desires and is saying *just* the right sequence of things to manipulate them to his own end. But that's not because of a problem I have with "Rey Palpatine" persay, moreso the execution.

But again, I'm really questioning this because J.J. tends to like elegant and simplistic (maybe to a fault). While one can argue it's the richer film, TLJ was far more convoluted that TFA. There's many reasons that TFA made so much dang money, and ease of rewatch due to straightforward storytelling is one of them. Now I know J.J. needs to be more innovative this go around, but his style isn't usually so all over the darn place the way these leaks suggest. Time will tell I suppose.
@nickandnora
It's worth keeping in mind that what we're hearing is not a first-hand account of the film as viewed in its entirety by an intelligent human, it's an account based on set workers describing scenes and actors out-of-context and with their own biases. That information is sometimes passed through several hands before it lands with the leakers themselves, who have to parse meaning from it - something Star Wars leakers are, in my opinion, embarrassingly bad at. Whenever I'm unsure of how something sounds from a reliable source I go back to the post-premiere descriptions of TLJ, which were written first-hand by people who had just seen the film. The first leak in particular omitted character arcs, failed to mention Rey and Kylo's force bond or anything beyond "Kylo kills Snoke and becomes the biggest baddest evil in the galaxy". Like, that's not how it happened at all. If people can describe an actual film so badly then imagine how they can botch describing sequences from story boards, concept art or sets. Even TFA's leaks (which were based on an actual shooting script) had critical errors, such as Kylo just killing Han in cold blood and Rey and Finn fighting Kylo together at the same time in the woods.

There's no way around a "from a certain point of view" answer, but I think I knew that when I heard JJ say he was delving deeper into the story of Rey's background. The most basic narrative isn't changing - Rey's parents were junkers who sold her. The big change here is that Rey's parents apparently did love her and sold her for her protection, and were promptly murdered by some wacky dagger by a currently unknown perpetrator (possibly Ochi, the informant Rey and the gang seek out on Pasaana). It's her grandparent who is, apparently, the important one.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah... it's just not my thing, lol (not even when an intelligent individual such as yourself explains it). It's not the kind of storytelling I enjoy, which I recognize is personal bias. Don't get me wrong, I said months before filming that I thought there might have been something more to what Kylo was telling Rey, it's just that the actual reading of this specifically doesn't do it for me. It's both kind of trite and kind of convoluted to my ears. But that's just what it reads like *now* and I certainly will keep an open mind if and when this is the story that makes it on the screen.
@nickandnora
Yeah, I feel you. I kind of knew the story wasn't resolved in TLJ when Rian and others came out and said it might be expanded upon, but I did want it to be over and done with at first. Now, though? I'm not sure. I think it adds something to Rey's story arc that a lot of people were not anticipating. It means Rey is going to experience at least some dark side temptation, she'll pull out lightning in her rage and probably hurt Ben, she'll be drawn down the rabbit hole in search of knowledge, etc.

I don't dislike it, personally, but it all depends on execution. I imagine it'll come across better than I described it. Very Happy
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:13 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I have relatively little problem with Rey adopting the Skywalker name. Though Ben has the blood of a Skywalker, he's always been associated with the name "Solo" and was never going to identify himself by the Skywalker moniker anyway.

I also have little inherent issue with Rey as a Palpatine. My problem is moreso with how hamfisted it (might) be to retroactively explain what was going on there with Ben's vision and Rey's parents being nobody. At the very least the leakers are making it *sound* pretty hamfisted. I'm really more of a fan of elegant solutions, story resolutions which make you say, "Ahhhh, yes of course!" and the leaks aren't exactly making it sound like that. It makes far more sense to me if Palpatine has basically looked into the hearts of both of these powerful characters, examined both their deepest fears and greatest desires and is saying *just* the right sequence of things to manipulate them to his own end. But that's not because of a problem I have with "Rey Palpatine" persay, moreso the execution.

But again, I'm really questioning this because J.J. tends to like elegant and simplistic (maybe to a fault). While one can argue it's the richer film, TLJ was far more convoluted that TFA. There's many reasons that TFA made so much dang money, and ease of rewatch due to straightforward storytelling is one of them. Now I know J.J. needs to be more innovative this go around, but his style isn't usually so all over the darn place the way these leaks suggest. Time will tell I suppose.
@nickandnora
It's worth keeping in mind that what we're hearing is not a first-hand account of the film as viewed in its entirety by an intelligent human, it's an account based on set workers describing scenes and actors out-of-context and with their own biases. That information is sometimes passed through several hands before it lands with the leakers themselves, who have to parse meaning from it - something Star Wars leakers are, in my opinion, embarrassingly bad at. Whenever I'm unsure of how something sounds from a reliable source I go back to the post-premiere descriptions of TLJ, which were written first-hand by people who had just seen the film. The first leak in particular omitted character arcs, failed to mention Rey and Kylo's force bond or anything beyond "Kylo kills Snoke and becomes the biggest baddest evil in the galaxy". Like, that's not how it happened at all. If people can describe an actual film so badly then imagine how they can botch describing sequences from story boards, concept art or sets. Even TFA's leaks (which were based on an actual shooting script) had critical errors, such as Kylo just killing Han in cold blood and Rey and Finn fighting Kylo together at the same time in the woods.

There's no way around a "from a certain point of view" answer, but I think I knew that when I heard JJ say he was delving deeper into the story of Rey's background. The most basic narrative isn't changing - Rey's parents were junkers who sold her. The big change here is that Rey's parents apparently did love her and sold her for her protection, and were promptly murdered by some wacky dagger by a currently unknown perpetrator (possibly Ochi, the informant Rey and the gang seek out on Pasaana). It's her grandparent who is, apparently, the important one.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah... it's just not my thing, lol (not even when an intelligent individual such as yourself explains it). It's not the kind of storytelling I enjoy, which I recognize is personal bias. Don't get me wrong, I said months before filming that I thought there might have been something more to what Kylo was telling Rey, it's just that the actual reading of this specifically doesn't do it for me. It's both kind of trite and kind of convoluted to my ears. But that's just what it reads like *now* and I certainly will keep an open mind if and when this is the story that makes it on the screen.
@nickandnora
Yeah, I feel you. I kind of knew the story wasn't resolved in TLJ when Rian and others came out and said it might be expanded upon, but I did want it to be over and done with at first. Now, though? I'm not sure. I think it adds something to Rey's story arc that a lot of people were not anticipating. It means Rey is going to experience at least some dark side temptation, she'll pull out lightning in her rage and probably hurt Ben, she'll be drawn down the rabbit hole in search of knowledge, etc.

I don't dislike it, personally, but it all depends on execution. I imagine it'll come across better than I described it. Very Happy
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, again it's not any of the Palpatine stuff I have trouble with at all. It's that apparently the way they've decided to handle it is to show exactly what Ben told her in TLJ as literal and just show her the surrounding context of it which is the significant part. It's that part that I dislike.

Personally, what I would enjoy more is if Ben *completely* misinterpreted what he saw, not just partially. There was a line in the TLJ adaptation during that throne room scene when Ben was telling her her origins and in her head she says something like, "she knew the truth and it was the same as her deepest fear" and that has always been very poignant to me. Because what if that's actually all it was? Ben seeing and spitting back at her the worst possible scenario she envisioned for herself and framing it as a truth (not actually realizing what he was seeing wasn't real)? Maybe she got the idea from Plutt, or maybe it's something she just crafted in her own brain. The point is, it was the worst possible thing she could think to believe. And the in IX, if Ben somehow understood what he had seen/done (taken her deepest, darkest fear and used it against her), he could feel remorse for that and atone accordingly or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, that's still convoluted when you pair it with a Palpatine reveal, but on it's own I think it works and mirrors the essential theme regarding fear that runs through all nine films. But alas... I suppose not, lol.

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Post by snufkin on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:31 pm

It doesn't surprise me for a couple reasons, starting with my thinking after I first saw TFA that something bad/tragic happened to Rey's parents and she was in major denial about it. That said, the Disney era films have made a point of really showing two repeating themes:

1. Part of passing on what you have learned/being a parent means personal sacrifice and frequently literally actual sacrifice in the hopes of protecting/loving one's children. PT saw this for Shmi and Padme, OT was Owen/Beru (indirectly Bail/Breha) and Vader, and ST so far was Han. I guess technically you can talk about Obi-Wan and Luke's deaths also as sacrifices to protect/save others, though technically it's not their children. However, if the ST continues following that logic, especially for the central protagonist, whatever led Rey's parents to that pauper's grave in the Jakku desert was done to protect her.

2. Also concerning lines of logic shown thus far in the new era films, but the writers have leaned hard between the ST and Solo in paralleling Han and Rey's coming-of-age stories. Both of them are obsessed with returning to the home worlds where they were abandoned/trapped as children because of the primary emotional relationship/attachment in their lives. We know that Rey was far enough gone in denial to believe that she had to wait for her parents to return for her because the actual truth was too painful. For Han, he felt responsible for Qi'ra being captured during their attempted escape from Lady Proxima and made it his sole purpose to return to Correlia to rescue her. Which when they're reunited on Vos' yacht, she tells him "I didn't [get out]" and spends the rest of the movie trying to get him to understand that it's too late, she's bound to Crimson Dawn and can't escape. She can go up, but she can't get out. It really takes meeting Leia for Han to start to learn how to listen to/understand a woman because he fails to grasp up until the end that she can be trapped there and survive but he would've been outright murdered. So given this specific parallel - how much they show Han wishing to return/rescue Qi'ra from a situation that will end up killing her and Rey wishing to return to a state where her parents were still alive and reunited with her - that makes me wonder if the parallel will extend to Rey's parents. That they were backed into a horrible situation the same way Qi'ra was and had to make the choice to let her go so that she could survive. It's possible that the other detail dropped in Solo, how Han's father lost his job, felt trapped in poverty in Correlia, and abandoned him might end up being the story for Rey's parents. Though that thread seems to be playing out more as part of Han's entire arc of feeling insecure about being a father until the moment he steps on to the bridge to confront Ben. My inclination is to think that it's more likely what will be mirrored with Rey's parents is Qi'ra's resigning herself to being trapped/doomed while her loved one is able to escape and be free.

Beyond that, we know thanks to Ben's snooping around in her head and sticking his foot in his mouth that being abandoned is Rey's biggest secret and source of shame. It's her "greatest weakness" in his words. If the Emperor, who's a master at manipulating other character's fears and desires, is going up against her, he'll take advantage of that. Whether or not the plot reveals, "No, Rey. I am your granddad" is irrelevant because it's not going to be a heart warming reunion. Especially when there's been enough details dropped between all 8 films & Solo to imply the theme about family has to do with the Emperor's beef with 3 generations and Ben's "too much of his father in him" struggle.
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Post by Night Huntress on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 1:53 am

Am I the only one feeling that if Rey indeed turns out to be a Palpatine, her adopting the Skywalker name being really...tasteless?

Palpatine, the one evil man basically responsible for destroying the entire Skywalker family, and now his heir is adopting that name because...she feels like it?

Of course Rey is not responsible for Palpatines actions, but still I would feel really really uncomfortable if that's what they're doing.

Even if they won't make her blood related to Palpatine- it's just so lame...

No matter how I try to make it work it just doesn't.

It would be different if Rey's relationship with Luke in TLJ had been more of a father/daughter dynamic, but with Luke now gone I doubt they'll have so much screen time in TROS to built that strong of a bond to justify her suddenly feeling like she "earned" that name.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:23 am

@Gemini wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:Well, here’s an actual legit merch leak. New info on Rey and Kylo from the the black of Black Series boxes:

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 33 1d744a10

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/d37fnf/new_info_on_rey_and_kylo_from_back_of_black/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

So instead of sitting around on his throne (which I didn’t expect from Kylo tbh, he’s a man of action), he’s searching for some weird force stuff. There’s that Oracle leak that I keep coming back to as well. Does this lend credence to Kylo accidentally unleashing Palpatine? And Dark Rey may be a vision, but it certainly seems like it’s going to be an undercurrent of her entire arc in TROS.
@Kylo Rey

This is interesting to me
Rey being concerned gives me pause

@rawpowah


Never mind this is ALREADY Anakin's story... never mind that in ROTS that Palpy basically tells him wink wink I am yo daddy with the egg and sperm dancing to operatic music


Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 33 Hqdefault



So Rey Palpy... we are doing that whole story AGAIN but this time it will be better

@spacebaby45678

Also the protagonist is related to the bad guy....again?
@Gemini

"Now, there’s a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it’s left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the midichlorians? It’s left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force." George Lucas
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Post by DeeBee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 3:19 am

For me, I don't trust MSW or Jedi Paxis.. and so why stress about what they say.
Even if a leak is true, I might think:
'Huh? Rey takes on the Skywalker name? that sounds dumb!'
But... I also know that out of context things just sound dumb... bom  
Had I heard a leak that Kylo is Supreme Leader at the end of TLJ saying he will destroy Rey?!  - I would have thought it was super duper dumb, but in context it's actually a fabulous story..
This says to me: I'll enjoy the lead up to the movie if I leave critique till once the movie has been released..
For all we know Rey is pretending to be a  skywalker.. for all we know she isn't alone - she's surrounded by force ghosts added in later by CGI. Who knows!! The future is always in motion haaaa.
Sure, there's fun to be had in exploring ideas, but we don't know what will be in the movie, so why stress. At least that's how I'm seeing it -MSW and Jedi Paxis can say what they like they are not an authority to me. [YMMV-I understand others will not see it the same way I do]
I'm starting to play with the idea of going spoiler free for the lead up. [sticking to trailers, canon, toys info]
Oh my goodness.. I never thought I would type that! Shocked  haaaa!! Razz
Hey - less than 100 days till the movie is released!!!! cheers cheers  cheers


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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:29 am

From the Aftermath Novel, Not only did Palpy have no relatives he never wanted a successor

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 33 Tumblr_pxrjkxOHKv1y8hadgo1_640
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