Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Page 34 of 40 Previous  1 ... 18 ... 33, 34, 35 ... 40  Next

Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:19 am

@DeeBee wrote:For me, I don't trust MSW or Jedi Paxis.. and so why stress about what they say.
Even if a leak is true, I might think:
'Huh? Rey takes on the Skywalker name? that sounds dumb!'
But... I also know that out of context things just sound dumb... bom  
Had I heard a leak that Kylo is Supreme Leader at the end of TLJ saying he will destroy Rey?!  - I would have thought it was super duper dumb, but in context it's actually a fabulous story..
This says to me: I'll enjoy the lead up to the movie if I leave critique till once the movie has been released..
For all we know Rey is pretending to be a  skywalker.. for all we know she isn't alone - she's surrounded by force ghosts added in later by CGI. Who knows!! The future is always in motion haaaa.
Sure, there's fun to be had in exploring ideas, but we don't know what will be in the movie, so why stress. At least that's how I'm seeing it -MSW and Jedi Paxis can say what they like they are not an authority to me. [YMMV-I understand others will not see it the same way I do]
I'm starting to play with the idea of going spoiler free for the lead up. [sticking to trailers, canon, toys info]
Oh my goodness.. I never thought I would type that! Shocked  haaaa!! Razz
Hey - less than 100 days till the movie is released!!!! cheers cheers  cheers
@DeeBee

Hi, unfortunately I don't write well in English, but if I knew how to write well I would write everything you wrote.

I totally agree with you.

A few weeks ago there were some losses that made me so depressed that I decided to get away from this fandom. As in the old days, when I was a very carefree single, I used the saying: "thought casts thought away ... even if they weren't really thoughts ..." So I read the book "The Cruel Prince" and found a new Fandom.

But as we say "The first love is never forgotten" and I came back here to read about REYLO.

I'm really lucky to have met you. This fandom is a safe haven, where even the leaks are analyzed and reviewed with the eyes of hope.

In the end I came back here, because I missed your thoughts.

Thank you all for being here.

I don't know if SW will disappoint me. I think I saw a hypothetical, powerful interpretation for this saga. A key to understanding that will also echo in future generations. SW will be compared to myths of Hercules and Achilles.

The message they can give is this:
Light and darkness follow each other, but everything exists until it lives in balance. The hands of opposites must come together because the balance depends on everyone.

This means that there is no religion, race, species, sex, belonging, culture, ideology or planet that can makes the difference.

The only chance to bring peace and live together is protect each other.

This is the only hope. For this reason, if SW ends up with Rey or Ben separated from death, just to please a fandom, they would give up the bigger message of hope of our age.

And I think that world, whole world, really needs to unite beyond globalization, and lower walls and ideologies, the world really needs union and hope ... without judgments and without borders.
giaciak2
giaciak2
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 581
Likes : 1471
Date d'inscription : 2018-01-10
Localisation : Rome

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Saracene on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:27 am

@nickandnora I don't have an inherent problem with Rey Palpatine either, and in the context of RotS as its own thing I think it could provide some very interesting dramatic possibilities. I get why many people really loved the Rey Nobody reveal and what it means thematically, but in terms of generating further drama in the last film it's basically a dead end. I think it's also good for Rey to have a personal connection to the wider story, which is something she's been sorely lacking so far.

I just think there's chance that, once you look back at the trilogy, Rey's family story could come off as the writers taking whatever direction/message they think suits each individual film, rather than one coherent thread. I mean, Luke's story in the OT is really very simple and effective:

ANH - Luke learns that his father was a great Jedi knight, and resolves to be a Jedi just like him.
ESB - Luke discovers, to his shock and dismay, that his father is actually the second most evil man in the galaxy.
RotJ - Luke redeems his father.

By comparison, the ST is more like a series of self-contained stories:

TFA - Rey is a girl waiting for her family, who in the end comes to terms with the fact that they'll never be back, and leaves Jakku.
TLJ - Rey learns that her parents were nobody, which for some reason is her worst fear despite her never caring about who her parents were before.
RotS - TBC of course, but if Rey learns that she's Palpatine's granddaughter that's pretty much guaranted to be the biggest thing in the film, so the focus is off her parents altogether.

Saracene
Saracene
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2226
Likes : 14218
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 39
Localisation : Melbourne

http://yggdrasille.com

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Gemini on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:40 am

@Night Huntress wrote:Am I the only one feeling that if Rey indeed turns out to be a Palpatine, her adopting the Skywalker name being really...tasteless?

Palpatine, the one evil man basically responsible for destroying the entire Skywalker family, and now his heir is adopting that name because...she feels like it?

Of course Rey is not responsible for Palpatines actions, but still I would feel really really uncomfortable if that's what they're doing.

Even if they won't make her blood related to Palpatine- it's just so lame...

No matter how I try to make it work it just doesn't.

It would be different if Rey's relationship with Luke in TLJ had been more of a father/daughter dynamic, but with Luke now gone I doubt they'll have so much screen time in TROS to built that strong of a bond to justify her suddenly feeling like she "earned" that name.
@Night Huntress

I agree. I feel the same about the overall message of Rey Palpatine.



On another note

This ending seems bittersweet as well. Which will most likely be divisive again its a risk. A  big risk. At this point in the saga , is such a risk needed?

These spoilers just seem to not be matching up with other media which has literally just come out and previous films. There is no ground work in TFA or TLJ for rey palpatine. Nothing points to it what so ever. Its left field. When a twist like that happens, you are supposed to look back and be like...of course! Look it was there all along.

It pointed to rey light side someone and then to rey random.

To me, it really feels as of each of these movies (when it comes to Rey) each push three totally different Reys. Shes like a slab of clay and they decide what to mould her into as they go along with no connection to what came before when it comes to her. No thought has been put into her. She really just is reactive because the plot needs it.

George R R Martin needs to be listened to more these days.

If you set something up to say the the Maid did it, and you lay the groundwork, you cant pull a left field and say the butler did it.  It means you have to retcon.

Arya's killing the NK was  not his choice imo, they decided to just pull a random twist with no ground work. Evidence is with d & d saying the decided on it only 2 years ago...it was a mess.


Last edited by Gemini on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:11 am; edited 4 times in total
Gemini
Gemini
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2508
Likes : 10455
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:46 am

@Saracene wrote:@nickandnora I don't have an inherent problem with Rey Palpatine either, and in the context of RotS as its own thing I think it could provide some very interesting dramatic possibilities. I get why many people really loved the Rey Nobody reveal and what it means thematically, but in terms of generating further drama in the last film it's basically a dead end. I think it's also good for Rey to have a personal connection to the wider story, which is something she's been sorely lacking so far.

I just think there's chance that, once you look back at the trilogy, Rey's family story could come off as the writers taking whatever direction/message they think suits each individual film, rather than one coherent thread. I mean, Luke's story in the OT is really very simple and effective:

ANH - Luke learns that his father was a great Jedi knight, and resolves to be a Jedi just like him.
ESB - Luke discovers, to his shock and dismay, that his father is actually the second most evil man in the galaxy.
RotJ - Luke redeems his father.

By comparison, the ST is more like a series of self-contained stories:

TFA - Rey is a girl waiting for her family, who in the end comes to terms with the fact that they'll never be back, and leaves Jakku.
TLJ - Rey learns that her parents were nobody, which for some reason is her worst fear despite her never caring about who her parents were before.
RotS - TBC of course, but if Rey learns that she's Palpatine's granddaughter that's pretty much guaranted to be the biggest thing in the film, so the focus is off her parents altogether.

@saracene

I could be wrong but I have another vision (no... sure I'm wrong...) :

Rey is the one who tells the story. For me she is the magnifying glass of BEN.

Let's try to see, through Rey's eyes, the story of Ben

TFA
- Rey, abandoned on Jakku and looking for a family, discovers that she has the strength, and in seeking help from the last Jedi but she discovers the Force is tied to Vader's nephew. (Rey = first half of the protagonist)
- Ben discovers that Vader was a powerful sith and wants to become like him (he is the opposite of Luke) - (Ben =second half of the protagonist)

TLJ
- Ben ( (Ben =second half of the protagonist) discovers that he cannot be like his grandfather, because he has too much of his father's heart, he saves Rey and his mother from the fury of the First Order, but also discovers the Dark side is taking away everything he loves, and he is, the one, with its choices, who is causing its own loss.
- Rey (Rey = first half of the protagonist) coached by Luke, discovers that it was Luke who caused Ben to fall. (Again the opposite of Luke)

TROS You wrote "RotJ - Luke redeems his father."
So if we want to hypothesize the opposite. I speak as absurd as in mathematics :-)
-Rey gives in to the dark side when she finds out who her family is. Ben, understands that in the Dark side there is only loss, and saves Rey.

Regardless of who they are and what they were, Rey and Ben join forces to destroy the evil side (not the dark side) and establish a new school that contemplates the Force in its unity.
giaciak2
giaciak2
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 581
Likes : 1471
Date d'inscription : 2018-01-10
Localisation : Rome

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Night Huntress on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:07 am

@Gemini

I totally agree.

Rey's character background and personality is set-up a bit like a slice of white bread...you can put on peanut butter, or cheese or salami. That's why so many completely contradicting theories about her background is even possible.

If they make her a Palpatine in TROS and claim that was the plan from the beginning I either call it BS or really bad writing and set-up.

You have to do foreshadowing properly to make the pay-off in the end believable and fulfilling.

A good example for this imo is Brandon Sanderson. If you reread his Mistborn trilogy you suddenly see all the foreshadowing and hints totally clear right before your nose but when first reading it you're so distracted that it went over your head. THAT is well thought out plot and good writing.

To be clear- we theorizing about leaks that may or may not be true. Everything official I have seen from TROS so far looks really promising and fantastic. Maybe that's why I'm so angry and negative about the latest leaks making doubt again...
Night Huntress
Night Huntress
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1861
Likes : 8981
Date d'inscription : 2017-08-24
Age : 37
Localisation : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Gemini on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:25 am

@Night Huntress wrote:@Gemini

I totally agree.

Rey's character background and personality is set-up a bit like a slice of white bread...you can put on peanut butter, or cheese or salami. That's why so many completely contradicting theories about her background is even possible.

If they make her a Palpatine in TROS and claim that was the plan from the beginning I either call it BS or really bad writing and set-up.

You have to do foreshadowing properly to make the pay-off in the end believable and fulfilling.

A good example for this imo is Brandon Sanderson. If you reread his Mistborn trilogy you suddenly see all the foreshadowing and hints totally clear right before your nose but when first reading it you're so distracted that it went over your head. THAT is well thought out plot and good writing.

To be clear- we theorizing about leaks that may or may not be true. Everything official I have seen from TROS so far looks really promising and fantastic. Maybe that's why I'm so angry and negative about the latest leaks making doubt again...
@Night Huntress

Fantastic points! I agree 100%

Ive been excited with the recent media and hopeful but the leaks just jar with it. They dont match with it and they dont match with the previous 2 films.

I remember thinking  this was going to be an issue when I heard it was supposed to be 3 different directors, way back in 2015. That was a red flag.

Then, it was the information that LF told RJ, "hey you can do whatever you want, blank slate". Like, I was shocked. Big red flag that there was no definitive overall story between TFA and TLJ.

Finally. LF has hired D&D because they think random left field twists is what the audience want.

Lawd...
Gemini
Gemini
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2508
Likes : 10455
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Riri on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:16 am

More from MSW

More on the opening sequence of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
A source reached out after the last update and filled in exactly what the catalyst is that breaks up the opening scene described to me from Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. In case you didn’t see yesterday’s update yet, here is the meat of it (check the full article for a few random tidbits):

After the opening crawl, we pan from space. The camera moves towards a planet covered in trees. We see a blue lightsaber dueling a green lightsabers in the distance. Both of the lightsabers are held in hand by two Jedi with white helmets with visors covering their faces so we cannot immediately recognize if this is Rey with someone new. The two Jedi break from their duel and remove their helmets to reveal Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa looking exactly the age they did in Return of the Jedi on Endor’s moon. The movie begins with a flashback.

What to expect when you’re expecting.
I’m told the reason the training is halted in the opening scene because Return of the Jedi era Luke Skywalker realizes something has changed with his sister, Leia Organa. He questions Leia and she confides in Luke that’s she’s going to be a mother. This is the moment Luke Skywalker realizes Ben Solo is coming and the galaxy will never be the same again.


Report Ad

We then hear a voice-over shouting “Master Leia!” causing Rey to end Leia’s flashback and we are thrust into the post-Luke Skywalker era, far from General Leia Organa’s training with her brother all those years ago. Now, we are with Leia and Rey amongst the trees. Rey trains to become the Jedi that will face-off against the evil supreme leader that was once the child Leia carried during her training with Luke Skywalker.

A caveat worth noting.
About a month ago, there was filming being conducted in Black Park near Pinewood Studios. The location where Rey trains was used again and it makes sense that the additional content pertains to these sequences. For all we know, there’s been stuff added. However, it could just be a lot of minor performance changes or shot coverage for a better way to present the sequence. I do seem to remember first hearing of the flashback sequence and it being a secret location within Pinewood Studios itself.

What might it mean?
I like how the sequence expands on Leia’s character while also showing us one of the moments we always wanted to see after 1983 when we hoped “they” would make more Star Wars movies that continued the Skywalker story. If this rumor is accurate in the way I’ve heard it described, it sets the tone of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker hard and fast. This movie is about saving Ben Solo and bringing Rey into the fold.

https://makingstarwars.net/2019/09/more-details-on-the-rumored-opening-sequence-of-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker/

This is a very detailed account of the opening sequence

Riri
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 763
Likes : 5428
Date d'inscription : 2018-01-21

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by OrionStars on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:35 am

@Night Huntress wrote:Am I the only one feeling that if Rey indeed turns out to be a Palpatine, her adopting the Skywalker name being really...tasteless?

Palpatine, the one evil man basically responsible for destroying the entire Skywalker family, and now his heir is adopting that name because...she feels like it?

Of course Rey is not responsible for Palpatines actions, but still I would feel really really uncomfortable if that's what they're doing.

Even if they won't make her blood related to Palpatine- it's just so lame...

No matter how I try to make it work it just doesn't.

It would be different if Rey's relationship with Luke in TLJ had been more of a father/daughter dynamic, but with Luke now gone I doubt they'll have so much screen time in TROS to built that strong of a bond to justify her suddenly feeling like she "earned" that name.
@Night Huntress



I totally agree with you. If the rumor of Rey taking the legacy name is true, then it will be a forced fan-service, it's literally like they will just shove it down our throat and we will have to accept it because fan service is just fan service, there is no justifiable reason to explain fan service. I don't think this case is the same as Renperor because personally I believed Kylo could usurp Snoke's position, all he need was a strong motivation to have the strength to commit the deed, so I wasn't surprised when he actually became Renperor.  I've seen a pro-ReySky fan explained that he thought Jason's ending sounded hopeful like KK said because finally, the Skywalker can have a good, heroic person like Luke in OT to take charge of the family and carry on the legacy, he didn't care if she would convincingly earn the name or not because he just wanted the good guy to "win" and have it all while the stained one like Vader, Kylo should sacrifice themselves for the good guy and be gone forever.


Last edited by OrionStars on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
OrionStars
OrionStars
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 42
Likes : 177
Date d'inscription : 2018-11-09

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rey09 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:01 am

@Riri wrote:More from MSW

More on the opening sequence of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
A source reached out after the last update and filled in exactly what the catalyst is that breaks up the opening scene described to me from Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. In case you didn’t see yesterday’s update yet, here is the meat of it (check the full article for a few random tidbits):

After the opening crawl, we pan from space. The camera moves towards a planet covered in trees. We see a blue lightsaber dueling a green lightsabers in the distance. Both of the lightsabers are held in hand by two Jedi with white helmets with visors covering their faces so we cannot immediately recognize if this is Rey with someone new. The two Jedi break from their duel and remove their helmets to reveal Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa looking exactly the age they did in Return of the Jedi on Endor’s moon. The movie begins with a flashback.

What to expect when you’re expecting.
I’m told the reason the training is halted in the opening scene because Return of the Jedi era Luke Skywalker realizes something has changed with his sister, Leia Organa. He questions Leia and she confides in Luke that’s she’s going to be a mother. This is the moment Luke Skywalker realizes Ben Solo is coming and the galaxy will never be the same again.


Report Ad

We then hear a voice-over shouting “Master Leia!” causing Rey to end Leia’s flashback and we are thrust into the post-Luke Skywalker era, far from General Leia Organa’s training with her brother all those years ago. Now, we are with Leia and Rey amongst the trees. Rey trains to become the Jedi that will face-off against the evil supreme leader that was once the child Leia carried during her training with Luke Skywalker.

A caveat worth noting.
About a month ago, there was filming being conducted in Black Park near Pinewood Studios. The location where Rey trains was used again and it makes sense that the additional content pertains to these sequences. For all we know, there’s been stuff added. However, it could just be a lot of minor performance changes or shot coverage for a better way to present the sequence. I do seem to remember first hearing of the flashback sequence and it being a secret location within Pinewood Studios itself.

What might it mean?
I like how the sequence expands on Leia’s character while also showing us one of the moments we always wanted to see after 1983 when we hoped “they” would make more Star Wars movies that continued the Skywalker story. If this rumor is accurate in the way I’ve heard it described, it sets the tone of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker hard and fast. This movie is about saving Ben Solo and bringing Rey into the fold.

https://makingstarwars.net/2019/09/more-details-on-the-rumored-opening-sequence-of-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker/

This is a very detailed account of the opening sequence
@Riri

Wow that is gonna be a beautiful and poignant opening if so!!

rey09
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1595
Likes : 7386
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-29

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rawpowah on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:39 am

Ben's fate is really going to make or break this saga.
rawpowah
rawpowah
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 938
Likes : 4698
Date d'inscription : 2017-11-18

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by californiagirl on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 1:06 pm

@Saracene The appeal of Rey no one is partly that the parent story gets minimal screentime in TROS. The emphasis is so much on what the parents did, not what she did. It seems kind of regressive, and a bit insulting to Rey herself. Like she personally has no story worth telling, or actions worth doing herself. People care more about what people who are likely dead and have never appeared on screen than about the main character herself. It's largely tedious and redundant at this point, like we keep getting dragged back to this thing that wasn't even really the biggest central conflict to begin with.

@rawpowah Ben's fate is one of the more sure things of the whole trilogy. It's everything else that's up in the air! Smile
californiagirl
californiagirl
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1621
Likes : 8120
Date d'inscription : 2017-11-12
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by snufkin on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 1:43 pm

Eh, not really sure what purpose this purported flashback scene fulfills beyond while also showing us one of the moments we always wanted to see after 1983 when we hoped “they” would make more Star Wars movies that continued the Skywalker story. The "we" and "us" in this statement is a very specific, very loud, very entitled, but very small part of the audience. Especially when LF is on record after R1 about the amount of labor/money spent on Zombie Tarkin.

If the story needs to put in writing on screen for the purpose of the overall story/arc that Luke wanted to train Leia, she considered it, but that motherhood and the New Republic were in far more dire need of her presence,  so she stayed an intuitive/non-aligned Force user, there are far more elegant ways of doing it. The point ultimately should be that Leia was somebody with extraordinary demands on her, both as a mother and a leader, and how that shapes the story, especially in showing her son's arc. As it stands, this "spoiler" reads like something a fanboy would write for a Screenwriting 101 assignment they'd at best get a C on.
snufkin
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 8190
Likes : 37754
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Lily Snape on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:53 pm

@OrionStars wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:Am I the only one feeling that if Rey indeed turns out to be a Palpatine, her adopting the Skywalker name being really...tasteless?

Palpatine, the one evil man basically responsible for destroying the entire Skywalker family, and now his heir is adopting that name because...she feels like it?

Of course Rey is not responsible for Palpatines actions, but still I would feel really really uncomfortable if that's what they're doing.

Even if they won't make her blood related to Palpatine- it's just so lame...

No matter how I try to make it work it just doesn't.

It would be different if Rey's relationship with Luke in TLJ had been more of a father/daughter dynamic, but with Luke now gone I doubt they'll have so much screen time in TROS to built that strong of a bond to justify her suddenly feeling like she "earned" that name.
@Night Huntress



I totally agree with you. If the rumor of Rey taking the legacy name is true, then it will be a forced fan-service, it's literally like they will just shove it down our throat and we will have to accept it because fan service is just fan service, there is no justifiable reason to explain fan service. I don't think this case is the same as Renperor because personally I believed Kylo could usurp Snoke's position, all he need was a strong motivation to have the strength to commit the deed, so I wasn't surprised when he actually became Renperor.  I've seen a pro-ReySky fan explained that he thought Jason's ending sounded hopeful like KK said because finally, the Skywalker can have a good, heroic person like Luke in OT to take charge of the family and carry on the legacy, he didn't care if she would convincingly earn the name or not because he just wanted the good guy to "win" and have it all while the stained one like Vader, Kylo should sacrifice themselves for the good guy and be gone forever.
@OrionStars

I think it should be Kylo, and that it would be totally appropriate and an actual good use of end-of-trilogy fan-service to have him tempted by Palpatine in some way (yep, like Luke was)— “You are no longer Ben Solo— arise, Kylo Ren” or something cheesy like that.  And then for Ben to refuse to reject his family by saying, “No, I am Ben Solo—  and I’m a Skywalker, like my mother, like my grandfather”— and then finish what Anakin started:  save the woman he loves and put an end to Palpatine.  And THAT, to me, would be an excellent rise of Skywalker.  

I’m biased because I was a kid in a theater cheering when Luke refused to kill his father, and when Anakin Skywalker returned and saved his son and pitched Sheev down that shaft.  But there have to be some callbacks in the last of nine films, and this would be a damned good one.


Last edited by Lily Snape on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
Lily Snape
Lily Snape
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 553
Likes : 2910
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-31

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:31 pm

Excellent theory from pacificwanderer on tumblr about the source of the leaks (my bias, I label it dudebro fanfic) with MSW and JP

She has ask and answers embedded within this, so the link is below, if you wish to follow the tumblr format Smile Very Happy

"I’m going out on a limb here (not really lol) and am gonna say that I think the recent bout of “leaks” are actually speculation based on “toy leaks,” that is, the short phrases on the backs of packaging and nothing more (as in, sure, they’re leaks, but not “plot” leaks from some mole in DLF). Hence, the reason the “leaks” are all over the place and shift around everytime confirmed information (trailers, etc) gets released.

Many retailers get product for major releases weeks in advance (I know because I used to work at one lol), so if they have endcap resets coming up, they’ll get a whole big product display for a specific endcap. If they want displays around the store, they’ll send bulkouts with product. DLF has huge sections in major retailers, so the square footage they need to cover with product is insane. I can only imagine what gets shipped early to them (and I suspect staff who don’t have overnight crews end up doing a hell of a lot of setup prior to their major releases).

Case in point, Walmarts were selling TRoS toys up until a few days ago because they were mistakenly marked for sale (they’re not supposed to be out till Force Friday in October). Once they caught on, they shifted the skus back to whatever bucket they should have been in (and customers weren’t allowed to buy them after that point).

Anyways, makes a whole shitton of sense now that I think about it and is another great reason why you should always take “plot leaks” with a grain of salt because, for the most part, they’re just speculation masquerading as “leaks.” Contrary to popular belief, most people aren’t willing to lose their jobs to get internet points with random strangers. But taking a quick peek at the back of a retail box? That’s more believable (though can still get people fired, so be careful toy leakers).

Remember when MSW spoiled all the Reylo scenes in the Last Jedi? Oh wait… *checks notes* they didn’t report on… any of them?

Remember also how they had no idea about Dark Rey, or Palpatine, and seem to conveniently forgotten half of the cast this time around SO FUNNY how that happens.

Not that I believe MSW but I like this new update from them: “If this rumor is accurate in the way I’ve heard it described, it sets the tone of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker hard and fast. This movie is about saving Ben Solo and bringing Rey into the fold.”

So, they’ve gone from “there’s something between them, but it’s not love” for tlj (which was wrong, by the way lol there’s totally love between them if you’re not looking to miss it), to she’s gonna kill him, to he’s gonna try to kill her, to she’s going to save him and also become a part of his family? Sounds like backtracking after the latest comic got released and it was revealed that Ben was, indeed, abused by Snoke (WHOEVER COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING, Oh wait. The entirety of the Reylo fandom).

The idea or the “leak” that has Ben personally telling Rey that she is a Palpatine after what he said in TLJ is so stupid and nonsensical. Like if Kylo really wanted her by his side in TLJ then he should have said that her heritage is of the Sith or the Dark Side and that’s what comvinces her to follow that “destiny” or something. JJ did said that IX is not gonna retcon what happened in TLJ so I find this leaks hard to believe but who knows what the hell happens in IX. Anything can happen.

It’s nonsensical to believe that any dialogue at all has made its way out lol. Set descriptions, I could get. But actual dialogue? LOL GTFO. But you’re right, how much more convincing would it be to be all “YOU’RE EVIL, JUST LIKE ME! LET’S BE EVIL TOGETHER!” I mean, that’d be a conversation I’d wanna try first lol.

MSW: “…I do seem to remember first hearing of the flashback sequence [Leia and Luke training] and it being a secret location within Pinewood Studios itself.” A ‘secret location’?! If it was so “secretive” then how the f**** do you know about this?! Also how the hell do you know the context of the scene already when we know they are still editing the film and the script was too guarded?! How the hell do you know what the characters are talking about?!

All of the above, and honestly, how much do they really have of Carrie? I know some resistance scenes were cut out with her, and maybe some Maz stuff, but training Rey? When she herself didn’t want to train to be a Jedi? Really??? Iirc, Luke offered to train her and she was like nah? I’ll have to check on that. Leia’s connection with the Force has always been instinctual in the movies, so… It’s more believable that 3PO could train her lol what with all the s*** he’s seen/helping her read the Jedi texts. Yeah, super secret, SO SECRET that random dude bros on the iternet found out about it!!!

It’s funny how half the fandom thinks Rey is Luke’s daughter because of MSW and no one is paying attention to to the fact that Disney/Lucasfilm have been defending Rey Nobody *and* they have allowed multiple people from the cast and crew to joke about Rey and Kylo being sexually attracted to one another. And then there is John Williams who shows Reylo scenes on the screen when he performs Han and Leia’s love theme live in front of thousands of attendees who aren’t even into shipping, lol.

Lol people still believe that? Man, it’s 2019. Reylo is real.

Do you think it’s possible for Ben to have a convincing redemption if he he were to bring Palpatine back? I was already a bit disappointed that the Sithtroopers respond to him and the Knights of Ren but if he intentionally brings Sheev back it just seems like it’ll be more difficult to convince the audience that he’s worthy of redemption? I would like this movie to focus on him making good decisions for once, instead of bad ones until a last minute good one like Vader.

There’s nothing that’s going to happen to the Emperor that’s going to happen by accident. Period. He’s had plans working in the background the entire time, so if he comes back, it’s because he wants to come back, not because some accident on Ben’s part made it happen. Honestly, don’t pay attention to leaks that are basically rephrasing box text that says “yeah, kylo should be the most powerful person in the galaxy, but really he’s just f****ing around like always, looking for answers to Force questions when he should be focusing on taking over the galaxy” which says to me that he never really did want to take over the galaxy. At all. He has it all, literally, and he’s still not finding what he wants. Which means he still has some exploring to do. Makes sense to me given how sad he looked at the end ot TLJ. These “leaks” also don’t really take into account that we’ve seen Kylo on that desert planet, like why is he there? What’s going on? Honestly, we know a whole lot of nothing about this movie and I’m sure the “leaks” will shift (again, just like they did last time) once the actual trailer gets dropped. Try not to worry about it Smile

Hey so I’m kinda confused right now about some supposed “leaks”? Apparently its been “confirmed” by Lucasfilms that Kylo himself is resurrecting Palpatine? I saw some Reylos on twitter saying that Kylo was going to uncover secrets of the dark side and that it would lead to Palps being resurrected. I don’t really keep up with leaks or extra material like comics so I’m kinda lost here. Do you know any thing about this? It just doesn’t make sense to me why Kylo would do any of what was said?

It absolutely was not confirmed that he brings back palpatine, some box text on the back of his black series figure says, “As Supreme Leader of the First Order, Kylo Ren wields more power than ever before. Nevertheless, Ren continues to search for secrets of the Force from the depths of the dark side.” So, secrets from the Force, doesn’t say s*** about palpatine but they’re jumping to conclusions because it “confirms” (in their mind) recent “leaks” (which I actually think are rephrased speculation based on TOY leaks) that speculate he’s looking for Palpatine. Why he’d trade one a** master for another is beyond me given that he wanted to burn it all down at the end of TLJ. I’m gonna wait till I see the trailer/read more comics/official sources of info, before bothering with this sort of thing. These “leakers” didn’t say s*** about Palps returning before his laugh at the end of the first teaser, so they didn’t know s*** about it and are only speculating NOW. The only person I saw predict Palp’s return was Wayward Jedi, which was speculation proven to be right.

Cheers all!"

https://pacificwanderer.tumblr.com/post/187692709438/whole-bunch-of-anons-about-leaks-etc-so-dont
SW_Heroine_Journey
SW_Heroine_Journey
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1076
Likes : 3216
Date d'inscription : 2018-05-23
Age : 46

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SkyStar on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 7:19 am

I don’t think that Rey taking Skywalker name would be impossible but I also find it quite cheesy and a bit of a slap in the face for Ben who wasn’t “worthy” for the mighty Luke Skywalker legacy.
SkyStar
SkyStar
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1407
Likes : 6515
Date d'inscription : 2017-02-01

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by OrionStars on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 7:31 am

@SkyStar wrote:I don’t think that Rey taking Skywalker name would be impossible but I also find it quite cheesy and a bit of a slap in the face for Ben who wasn’t “worthy” for the mighty Luke Skywalker legacy.
@SkyStar


I think it's already a slap in the face when the leakers said Ben isn't the one who finishes Palpy while Rey has all the aid of the universe to do it, it means he wouldn't be able to finish what Vader started so half of his character arc is pointless.
Besides, isn't JJ a cheesy writer?


Last edited by OrionStars on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
OrionStars
OrionStars
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 42
Likes : 177
Date d'inscription : 2018-11-09

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by loversinthestorm on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 7:34 am

There's a Lot of stuff I don't like in the leaks including her taking a last name from someone she did not have a great relationship with but I don't think that has nothing to do with Ben. Skywalker is not his name (It wasnt even a name his mother used). From a real life perspective I wouldnt care at all If someone took my uncle's last name. He himself taking his mother maiden name would feel more like a rejection of his father

loversinthestorm
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 125
Likes : 504
Date d'inscription : 2018-01-10
Localisation : Brazil

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 9:35 am

there are things that don't come back to me. let's go back to the stormy sea.
 everything in that scene is screaming at us in the face "the duel of the fate",
 and this is precisely why I don't think so.
rey doesn't have the armband on her arm. it might look like bullshit but that's exactly where I started
in the speech I am about to make. I don't think the scene is at the end of the film
but right at the beginning. In Indiana Jones there was this tendency to start the film
while a mission was ending,
now why not start the movie with Rey and the others who come to the wreck of the black death on the planet of Endor? Rey meets kylo
and probably she is defeated by him, which is why she runs away and understands that she must
become even stronger and that's where the real story begins. She must become stronger and then build a weapon suitable for her
and so she leaves for Pasana, Ilum, in search of kyber crystals. why am I talking about kyber crystals?


 I am convinced that the dark Rey we see in the trailer is not the Rey converted to the dark side
for a very simple reason, first of all we agree that it is a vision
 second for lack of time
you can't make a transformation like that in a single movie. for Anakin it took three films.
I repeat , for me it is a vision, we have seen something similar in the sixth season of clone wars where yoda faces a version of himself (I think)
also the lightsaber that you see, a lightsaber with that design, which was created on purpose, I don't think it is used only in the vision . according to me , Rey will build a double-lightsaber, does it make sense since from the beginning what was the favorite weapon used by Rey? her stick.
Teo oswald
Teo oswald
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 777
Likes : 3262
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 28
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by AhsokaTano on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 10:24 am

@Teo oswald
I’d forgotten about dark side yoda where he meets his shadow self but good point about that Smile This could be something we see with Rey . Also I feel there’s something “ off “ about these leaks from Jedi praxis , MSW and Bespin bulletin . A lot of it is too fan servicey and just doesn’t feel right . They are still doing reshoots , in Scotland now . I don’t think the leakers have it all right . I think they may have fragments or they are rumours or bits of marketing but that’s all.
And I like your idea about the Death Star episode possibly being near the beginning . It could be . We just don’t know . Everyone is assuming it’s at the end and big fight and possession but is it possible we are all being duped ? Deliberately. To hide the real secrets . I think that’s very possible .
AhsokaTano
AhsokaTano
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1112
Likes : 3764
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-13
Localisation : London UK

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 2:05 pm

@AhsokaTano

another thing I was thinking is the figure of kylo. Now mine are just assumptions, so take them as such. we know that Rey and Kylo are our two protagonists, to whom the public is most important
but by reasoning on this saga I have theorized that the character of kylo Ren is the most central one. Now I'm not saying that Rey comes later, absolutely not, for me they are of equal importance, the two go hand in hand, but Kylo is the character that embodies the Skywalker, he is the Skywalker and it is here that the figure of palpatine enters game, This is what binds Palpatine and that justifies his presence in this last episode that concludes the Skywalker saga.let's return to that first montage of the teaser that was released at d23, a sequence of images that tell us up to this point
but that tell us above all the story of the Skywalkers, and when we hear the voice "a thousand generations live in you now, this is your battle, your journey has come to an end (something like that), you are not referring to Rey but to Kylo Ren, why
 it is in him that the generations of Jedi and Sith live, and it is no coincidence that when we hear the voice of Palpatine, when he says "your journey" the teaser shows us Kylo Ren, because between the two (Rey and Kylo ) Kylo is undoubtedly the one who had the most troubled journey between the two sides of the force.Now why do I say that the generations of jedi and Sith live in kylo?
the answer lies in "Vader's comics" issue 25 , which talks about Anakin's real father alias Palpatine. which means that Palpatine is Kylo Ren's great-grandfather. I don't know if Palpatine will come back to life physically (in my heart I hope so, a little yes) but he can leverage Kylo using his influence because we know that kylo is obsessed with his grandfather. and therefore, having the teacher who taught everything to the person he idolized in my opinion will carry weight.
Teo oswald
Teo oswald
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 777
Likes : 3262
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 28
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Moonlight13 on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

@Teo oswald wrote:@AhsokaTano

another thing I was thinking is the figure of kylo. Now mine are just assumptions, so take them as such. we know that Rey and Kylo are our two protagonists, to whom the public is most important
but by reasoning on this saga I have theorized that the character of kylo Ren is the most central one. Now I'm not saying that Rey comes later, absolutely not, for me they are of equal importance, the two go hand in hand, but Kylo is the character that embodies the Skywalker, he is the Skywalker and it is here that the figure of palpatine enters game, This is what binds Palpatine and that justifies his presence in this last episode that concludes the Skywalker saga.let's return to that first montage of the teaser that was released at d23, a sequence of images that tell us up to this point
but that tell us above all the story of the Skywalkers, and when we hear the voice "a thousand generations live in you now, this is your battle, your journey has come to an end (something like that), you are not referring to Rey but to Kylo Ren, why
 it is in him that the generations of Jedi and Sith live, and it is no coincidence that when we hear the voice of Palpatine, when he says "your journey" the teaser shows us Kylo Ren, because between the two (Rey and Kylo ) Kylo is undoubtedly the one who had the most troubled journey between the two sides of the force.Now why do I say that the generations of jedi and Sith live in kylo?
the answer lies in "Vader's comics" issue 25 , which talks about Anakin's real father  alias Palpatine.  which means that Palpatine is Kylo Ren's great-grandfather. I don't know if Palpatine will come back to life physically (in my heart I hope so, a little yes) but he can leverage Kylo using his influence because we know that kylo is obsessed with his grandfather. and therefore, having the teacher who taught everything to the person he idolized in my opinion will carry weight.
@Teo oswald
Matt Martin (who worked on that comic) has already clarified several times that the comic didn't mean to imply Palpatine was Anakin's father (He said that misinterpretation keeps him up at night Laughing ). He even pointed out that Shmi was already pregnant before Palpatine showed up. You can see it here:
https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1076902958330142720
https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1172251266124320768
Moonlight13
Moonlight13
Moderator

Messages : 985
Likes : 4764
Date d'inscription : 2017-06-15
Age : 25
Localisation : Argentina

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 2:38 pm

@Moonlight13

oh, I wasn't aware of this huge detail. Thanks for letting me know Smile
This changes a part of what I said.
but also in episode III when Palpatine speaks of Darth Plagueis to the possibility of creating life.
There is a possibility that life can be created through force, through the dark side. Obviously I'm not talking to Palpatine, from Twitter I understand that there was a misinterpretation. Smile
Teo oswald
Teo oswald
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 777
Likes : 3262
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 28
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 2:54 pm

tumblr source
forceiswithreylo

She said this : SO THIS WAS IN MY INTRO TO FILM TEXTBOOK
This author said REYLO RIGHTS .

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 8ec95eda6943f105258e322eac269e7b68810a43

Han and Leia divorced ? really? ...come on..
Teo oswald
Teo oswald
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 777
Likes : 3262
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 28
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 6:23 pm

@Moonlight13 wrote:
@Teo oswald wrote:@AhsokaTano

another thing I was thinking is the figure of kylo. Now mine are just assumptions, so take them as such. we know that Rey and Kylo are our two protagonists, to whom the public is most important
but by reasoning on this saga I have theorized that the character of kylo Ren is the most central one. Now I'm not saying that Rey comes later, absolutely not, for me they are of equal importance, the two go hand in hand, but Kylo is the character that embodies the Skywalker, he is the Skywalker and it is here that the figure of palpatine enters game, This is what binds Palpatine and that justifies his presence in this last episode that concludes the Skywalker saga.let's return to that first montage of the teaser that was released at d23, a sequence of images that tell us up to this point
but that tell us above all the story of the Skywalkers, and when we hear the voice "a thousand generations live in you now, this is your battle, your journey has come to an end (something like that), you are not referring to Rey but to Kylo Ren, why
 it is in him that the generations of Jedi and Sith live, and it is no coincidence that when we hear the voice of Palpatine, when he says "your journey" the teaser shows us Kylo Ren, because between the two (Rey and Kylo ) Kylo is undoubtedly the one who had the most troubled journey between the two sides of the force.Now why do I say that the generations of jedi and Sith live in kylo?
the answer lies in "Vader's comics" issue 25 , which talks about Anakin's real father  alias Palpatine.  which means that Palpatine is Kylo Ren's great-grandfather. I don't know if Palpatine will come back to life physically (in my heart I hope so, a little yes) but he can leverage Kylo using his influence because we know that kylo is obsessed with his grandfather. and therefore, having the teacher who taught everything to the person he idolized in my opinion will carry weight.
@Teo oswald
Matt Martin (who worked on that comic) has already clarified several times that the comic didn't mean to imply Palpatine was Anakin's father (He said that misinterpretation keeps him up at night Laughing ). He even pointed out that Shmi was already pregnant before Palpatine showed up. You can see it here:
https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1076902958330142720
https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1172251266124320768
@Moonlight13

I am more shocked that he thinks fan are misinterpreting his comic panel when it is commonly known what Palpy was implying in the Opera scene and what was in the original script. Does he not call Pabs on the office phone Laughing

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 EEU0Ba6UcAAI1aa?format=png&name=900x900


The maker says

Now, there’s a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it’s left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the midichlorians? It’s left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force." George Lucas

What was Matt tryna say? Is LF currently trying to make a parallel between Anakin and Kylo? That they where both influenced in utero? What is the point of this revisionism? Lort... LF...

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Tenor

spacebaby45678
spacebaby45678
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 3080
Likes : 7237
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 34 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by ZioRen on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 6:38 pm

More, err, leaks I guess. From MSW.

• Apparently C3PO getting his memory erased is one of the most emotional moments in the film, kind of feels as if C3PO is committing suicide with C3PO commenting that he’ll do anything for his friends before shutting down. Despite Threepio not dying, Jason says it feels like it could’ve been a good death as C3PO has been a coward all these years and in the final film he’s willing to pretty much die for his friends.

• Hearing that the movie has a lot of fake out death moments. One being when Rey Force Lightning’s a ship she believes Chewbacca to be on, messing up the ship.

• Originally MSW heard that Kylo was very involved in the Ochi’s tomb stuff, they even wondered if he’d be with our heroes and his wayfinder when the ground on Pasaana sucks them down and they find Ochi’s tomb. Now he’s thinking that’s not the case but wonders if Kylo is there in the catacombs anyway looking for our heroes.

• Thinks George Lucas did something on Mandalorian.

• Heard different versions of Leia’a death that has Luke and doesn’t have him.

• Heard Rey’s parents might show up as ghosts.

• Some sources told Jason they don’t explain how Palpatine is still alive but Jason doubts that.

• Jason thinks that some characters are going to get the Han Solo treatment in Return of the Jedi for example Poe reaches the end of his arc in The Last Jedi.

• Finn and Rose are a thing in the movie but throughout the film, Finn has something he wants to tell Rey but doesn’t get the chance to. Speculates it could be Finn wanting to know if he and Rey could be a thing with Jason hearing that info recently and a long time ago.

• Has tried to get confirmation that Finn and Jannah are related but has had no luck but thinks there is a link there. Jason theorises that he thinks there might be a moment where Rose gets jealous of Jannah with Finn revealing she’s his sister.

• Teases that he might put out more information about Finn next week.

• Thinks the Mando season two stuff is unique and different from season one in terms of the set, still Tatooine.

• Says R5-D4 is coming into Star Wars but won’t say what show as he proving a point.  

Fanboy "speculation," and I use that word in the weakest possible sense, is always such garbage. How do they manage to assume romantic dynamic everywhere but where it obviously is? At this point I just start thinking it's some "the womenz can't be right" nonsense.

I don't for one second believe J.J. is thick enough to let Finn come off as such a pathetic jerk. This would wreck his character. Don't even get me started on poor Rose.

As folks on Reddit pointed out, Finn keeping something from Rey is probably related to the other leak of Lando telling Finn and Poe something shocking.
ZioRen
ZioRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2789
Likes : 19034
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-27

Back to top Go down

Page 34 of 40 Previous  1 ... 18 ... 33, 34, 35 ... 40  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum