Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 7:06 am

I rather like the idea of Palpatine starting out a decent man, if not a good one.
If you look at Star Wars, they've always tried to show some humanity in their villains.
Darth Vader started out as the hope of the Jedi. Unpleasant as Hux is, he started out life as an unwanted child. Phasma's background turned her into the ruthless self serving individual she became. It was even mentioned, albeit briefly, that Snoke once had the 'face of an angel'.
I remember reading years ago in the RotJ novelization, it wasn't the Emperor Luke despised but the 'darkness' in him. I do wish however, that if they show. 'human' traits in the bad guys we might also see less 'noble' traits in the Resistance.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 8:01 am

palpy is just a cackling villain to the point of silliness in ROTS... I can't take him seriously as anyone's grandpa or.. just the thought ol butt face palpy doing the deed is just... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Post by Armadeus on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 8:12 am

So... the Force creates a 'dyad'... why, exactly?

To defeat Palpatine? But according to these rumours, Palpatine wants to use the dyad to draw more power to himself... so the Force would have been better off not creating a dyad and just leaving the old guy to die. Sounds like the Force didn't really think things through.

Another argument is that it's trying to balance itself through the dyad, hence: Stronger together than they could ever be apart. But this JP guy says that Kylo is definitely dead at the end of TROS, so - if that's true - then that can't be the reason for a dyad either since the Force seems perfectly fine with only one of them. If they are stronger together, seems pretty dumb of the Force to let one of them die. The Force does have a will of it's own, after all.

Something about all this is off...


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 8:57 am

Off topic, but regarding ROTS some folks on YouTube recently were arguing that the PT is still miles better than TLJ.
Sigh....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Armadeus on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 9:16 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic, but regarding ROTS some folks on YouTube recently were arguing that the PT is still miles better than TLJ.
Sigh....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@motherofpearl1

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Who are these people? I would like to meet them.

ROTS is the only prequel film that can be considered 'good'. It's at least watchable.

TPM is a painfully OK movie... and that's only if you're a die-hard SW fan.

AOTC is a vacuum of quality. It's the absolute nadir of SW movies. Nothing about that movie works. The script is terrible, the Jedi are idiots, the romance is unwatchable. And it's boring. Holy crap, is this movie a snooze-fest. I need to stop because if I went on about how much I hate AOTC I'd never stop.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 10:01 am

@Armadeus wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic, but regarding ROTS some folks on YouTube recently were arguing that the PT is still miles better than TLJ.
Sigh....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@motherofpearl1

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Who are these people? I would like to meet them.

ROTS is the only prequel film that can be considered 'good'. It's at least watchable.

TPM is a painfully OK movie... and that's only if you're a die-hard SW fan.

AOTC is a vacuum of quality. It's the absolute nadir of SW movies. Nothing about that movie works. The script is terrible, the Jedi are idiots, the romance is unwatchable. And it's boring. Holy crap, is this movie a snooze-fest. I need to stop because if I went on about how much I hate AOTC I'd never stop.
@Armadeus
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Post by nana7marie on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 10:06 am

@Riri For me like a non-answer but agree with @Lovely_Rose that they won’t debunk or confirm anything anyway - unless it’s obvious and ridiculous which makes me think this one isn’t Razz
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 10:22 am

The Sun is behind Kylo

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Post by Armadeus on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 10:43 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Armadeus wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic, but regarding ROTS some folks on YouTube recently were arguing that the PT is still miles better than TLJ.
Sigh....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@motherofpearl1

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 2 Source

Who are these people? I would like to meet them.

ROTS is the only prequel film that can be considered 'good'. It's at least watchable.

TPM is a painfully OK movie... and that's only if you're a die-hard SW fan.

AOTC is a vacuum of quality. It's the absolute nadir of SW movies. Nothing about that movie works. The script is terrible, the Jedi are idiots, the romance is unwatchable. And it's boring. Holy crap, is this movie a snooze-fest. I need to stop because if I went on about how much I hate AOTC I'd never stop.
@Armadeus
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@spacebaby45678

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Post by californiagirl on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 12:36 pm

@OrionStars Only a very small, think lower single digits percentage, of audiences follow spoilers. I really don't think the "leaks" are affecting anyone beyond the tiny, hardcore fandom. I've even seen some big fans choose not to follow spoilers for TROS from the getgo.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 12:50 pm

@Armadeus I wasn't bothering with Star Wars by the time AotC came out and then when an acquaintance saw it and told me, a) it's really bad and b) it uses the 'kills the hero's mom' plot point, I really didn't bother with it. At least not until I found this place after seeing TFA and several said they suspected the ST would at least reference parts of the PT. Which I agree with beyond certain relationship parallels/inverses - my guess for TRoS is that it'll borrow from the plot structure in showing the Emperor playing a long con of pitting sides against each other in each trilogy as way of weakening groups that'd otherwise oppose his power grabs.

Otherwise, I'd have to say trying to sit through this sober, when I've at least made it through David Lynch's Dune or the adaption of Cloud Atlas by watching them when I was sick and high on cold meds, it wasn't easy. I feel like there's a certain amount of defensiveness and childhood nostalgia for diehard SW fans whose entry point was the PT in defending it. But good lord is it terrible on its own merits. At least if the plan is for TRoS to borrow some of the more promising elements for the stage it sets for the finale, the time I spent sitting through it gritting my teeth wasn't a complete waste.
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Post by fuhry on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 1:14 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Armadeus I wasn't bothering with Star Wars by the time AotC came out and then when an acquaintance saw it and told me, a) it's really bad and b) it uses the 'kills the hero's mom' plot point, I really didn't bother with it. At least not until I found this place after seeing TFA and several said they suspected the ST would at least reference parts of the PT. Which I agree with beyond certain relationship parallels/inverses - my guess for TRoS is that it'll borrow from the plot structure in showing the Emperor playing a long con of pitting sides against each other in each trilogy as way of weakening groups that'd otherwise oppose his power grabs.

Otherwise, I'd have to say trying to sit through this sober, when I've at least made it through David Lynch's Dune or the adaption of Cloud Atlas by watching them when I was sick and high on cold meds, it wasn't easy. I feel like there's a certain amount of defensiveness and childhood nostalgia for diehard SW fans whose entry point was the PT in defending it. But good lord is it terrible on its own merits. At least if the plan is for TRoS to borrow some of the more promising elements for the stage it sets for the finale, the time I spent sitting through it gritting my teeth wasn't a complete waste.
@snufkin

I think that when it comes down to it, the most awful part of the Prequels is the dialogue. Lucas wrote the scripts, and IMO he is a terrible dialogue writer. Also they use CGI that doesn't look good. Lawrence Kasdan on the other hand, is a terrific writer of dialogue. The stories of the PT movies are not bad, especially the last one. With better dialogue, I don't think they'd be half bad.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 1:31 pm

I agree with you there.
Hayden was actually great, but he was given awful dialogue.
If he turns up in TROS, I wonder what material they'll give him.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 1:31 pm

I was a full adult woman when I saw the PT, had already graduated uni and birthed two children. I have no childhood nostalgia for the PT. I still think IMHO that AOTC is a better movie than TLJ. It has absolutely nothing to do with my spurned expectations for Rey Kenobi. In order for me to really judge TLJ it is going to take watching TROS, that will be my true and final measure of what happened in TLJ.


But for now, my dislike for TLJ is simple, I don't like RJ's style of filming. His camera angles, ( these angles are there in Knives Out Trailer) his pacing, his dialogue, the meta commentary, the tokenism, canto bight, the acting in the canto bight arc is a cringy as anything in AOTC. I am not here to cheer lead any actors, LF does not pay my bills. And, I can be critical because I am not an online troll or bully. I hate both Leia's and Holdo's arc in TLJ, both of their behavior was problematic as leaders. You don't deal with toxic masculinity with condensation and violence. That is more of what is good for the goose is good for the gander when what really needs to change is inter-relational dynamics. Yes, I hate Luke's arc because it was more about his inner pain than Rey's journey.

The thematic content about sexual awakening is the same in both AOTC and TLJ. tons of D's and V's in the monster Arena and even a thigh grab... haha!!! There is almost no scene more epic than when Anakin leaves Padme to go find his mother, the cinematography, the shadow play, where you can feel Darth Vader coming, the music that JW conducted. Perfectly acted by Hayden. That scene is untouchable to me.

Why can't people be free to like what they like? Isn't that what Reylo's ask of the general Star Wars fandom? Femgaze and all of that? Then why is it not equally as toxic for judging people who don't like what others like? Pot call kettle black much? No one should tell a Reylo they need help because they are shipping an abusive relationship and on the flip side no one should tell a person they are uneducated or stupid or suffering from childish nostalgia for their taste either. As humans we should allow each other to be free critical independent thinkers. We can do better.


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Post by Armadeus on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 2:30 pm

@spacebaby4567

Agree to disagree

Personally, I think TLJ is a good movie. Not a flawless movie - don't get me started on its pacing issues - but far from a bad one. I like what Johnson does with his camera, I like the dialogue - it's corny in just the way SW dialogue should be corny. I do agree that the Resistance plotline is the weakest aspect of the film, though... but I would watch it a hundred times if the alternative were to sit through AOTC.

But you're right: live and let live.

Lord knows there's plenty of stuff I love that most other people would find dumb, so... who am I to judge?
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 3:27 pm

@Armadeus wrote:@spacebaby4567

Agree to disagree

Personally, I think TLJ is a good movie. Not a flawless movie - don't get me started on its pacing issues - but far from a bad one. I like what Johnson does with his camera, I like the dialogue - it's corny in just the way SW dialogue should be corny. I do agree that the Resistance plotline is the weakest aspect of the film, though... but I would watch it a hundred times if the alternative were to sit through AOTC.

But you're right: live and let live.

Lord knows there's plenty of stuff I love that most other people would find dumb, so... who am I to judge?
@Armadeus
afro


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Post by Saracene on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 4:40 pm

“Force dyad” frankly sounds to me like a niche concept concocted by a SW lore-obsessed fan, rather than something that is likely to appear in a crowd-pleasing summer blockbuster. The ST so far has stayed away from this sort of nerdy force stuff (remember all the speculation about how TLJ was going to reveal something mind-blowing about the force that would change our perception forever etc.?)

Re: Rian Johnson, personally I like his style and think that TLJ is half of a great movie at least, but I can also see how his style can fundamentally rub some people the wrong way. As for AotC... I don't think it's any good but I'd happily watch it over Rogue One any day. That movie is the nadir of the franchise as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 7:47 pm

@fuhry Supposedly we came this close to having Carrie Fisher script doctor the PT the way Gloria Katz did the original movie. Or having Irving Kershner return as a director. The entire premise, especially remembering Obi-Wan's Camelot monologue to Luke had so much premise. I have read that Tom Stoppard wrote the opera house scene in RotS, which shows. As Harrison Ford said, "you can type this s__t, George, but you sure can't say it."

From what details we have so far about TRoS and knowing that the Emperor's back, my best guess is that TLJ's ending set up a conflict like the Old Republic versus the Seperatists, now the Resistance versus the First Order. Which again, he's lurking in the background hoping to weaken both sides so he can step in to take over w/out anybody to oppose him. All of JJ's comments at SWCC and Vanity Fair about filming at Wadi Ruum in the footsteps of David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia aren't about nostalgia but about how this time around the different sides will have to forge alliances against a larger mutual enemy (and we get some kind of LS/DS relationship which ditches picnics and "I hate sand" for the glorious tension/dialogue of Lawrence and Ali's antagonists to confidants relationship).
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Post by MaddieDove on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 8:32 pm

After 35 years of watching SW films, nowadays I can mostly rewatch them only in segments, except TESB, TFA and TLJ (I skip the Kanjiklub episode, though).
AOTC holds my interest much more than TPM for shallow reasons - I like Obi-Wan and his mission to Camino is delightful to watch, Bail Organa and Jango Fett are introduced and I like both actors, while I don't care for Natalie Portman and can't stand poor Jake Lloyd on screen. Story and dialogues are often corny and flawed in almost all the movies, so I guess what matters to me is purely cinematic magic, energy and style, with additional bonus of the particular actors' charisma. Which boils down to subjective preferences on a visceral level, what works for someone doesn't have to work for someone else. I can understand that men react better to war/action (R1) than to the promise of an epic romance of galactic proportions (TFA, TLJ) than me, and when you are not buying into the kind of narrative, your brain easily gets bored and is looking for flaws in execution or story design. These are complicated films, crammed with so many aspects that should work together (slapstick humor and cuteness for children, mild horror, action sequences, visual effects, magic/technobable, lore, world building, emotions, chemistry, relationships, symbolism, dramatization and story beats, SW tradition, politics, style, aliens and alien worlds, political correctness, genre conventions, references, call backs, pressure for originality, meta comments...), without literary template (like HP, TGOT), so I think we are lucky even to have what we got. Flawed juggling acts of movies. With John Williams as the MVP. There is no point of judging each other for what we do or don't like.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 1:20 am

Thing I like about this forum..... you're actually allowed to dislike what others like without getting verbally abused for it!

Another forum I used to regularly visit got some pretty nasty comments from someone and decided to increase the censorship. Fair enough but whenever someone responsed to a snotty or spiteful comment made to them.....they got themselves banned as well as the person who'd jeered at them! In short, you couldn't stick up for yourself! One day I jokingly insulted a fictional character...I stress fictional, not a real life character.....and was not only banned for three weeks but got told off by them as well. I was genuinely baffled as not only did the character not exist, but some time later another poster said exactly the same thing......and wasn't banned.

I despise online trolls. But there's such a thing as reasonable debate. I also get tired of people giving me grief because I like/dislike something they like/dislike. It reminds me of how when I was at school I got bullied and told I was 'stupid' simply because I didn't like some TV programme or film everyone else thought was cool.
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Post by DeeBee on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 2:49 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:The Sun is behind Kylo

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 2 EE6OFo_XsAE0Bxd?format=png&name=900x900
@spacebaby45678

Hello, sorry maybe I've missed this. What is this from? Can someone direct me to the source? thanks!
Looks like it's not the whole image as that seems to be Rey's lightsaber in the top left corner.. hmm!

edited to add: - thanks for sharing spacebaby45678
Okay, I found what this is.. and I'll post some close up images for us to explore
found what it is here: https://twitter.com/sleemo_/status/1175137809247744000
[thank you sleemo!]
and so here is the link to the german amazon page: https://www.amazon.de/Undercover-SWDD8023-Stormtrooper-Adventskalender-%C3%9Cberraschungen/dp/B07NVXTZRX

Looks like it's an advent calendar. lol. and there are a bunch of random stationery merch that is included..
So here's the full advent calendar image:
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 2 Tros_a10
and here is the full image of all the merch that comes with it:
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 2 Advent10
and here are these random items in more close up:
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 2 Advent11
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 2 Advent12
I might return some other time to comment on it. enjoy! Find anything in all this?!
sunny


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Post by SkyStar on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:26 am

New detailed leaks from JP on reddit - I now cannot hear anyone over the sound of Rey stabbing Kylo and then healing him. Why. So bad.


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Post by ZioRen on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:29 am

If those leaks are true, here are my thoughts:

1. This may as well be Act 1 Kylo and Rey with how little their development, and the development of their connection, seems to matter.

2. Rey is acting rather self-righteous about "not falling to the dark like bad old Kylo" considering how vicious she gets in this movie. Stabbing a guy though the chest when he's reeling from his own mother dying, as you sense his mother dying too and know she loves her son and probably would be very upset with this, is quite a thing. You don't get to heal someone after that sort of very dark side action and then scold him about how much better you are. I get that it's supposed to evoke Han's death and show how she's different because she doesn't let him die, but still. That went WAY too far for her to make that kind of declaration.

3. Kylo looks pathetic the whole time and his "redemption" is lame. Hux gets more heroic moments for whatever reason.

4. There's no room for Reylo here.

5. If Rey heals Kylo from death in Act 2, that lessens the chance that she does the same in the climax. The drama of it has now been wasted because it already happened earlier in the movie.

Summed up: I hate this.
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Post by whisperingwillow on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:38 am

I’m not sure what to say about the leaks. At all.

According to these leaks Rey has no feelings towards Kylo except Anger and Hate.
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Post by Birdwoman on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

According to this leak the character development is Rey running around stabbing Kylo and gloating?

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