The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing

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Post by Geralt_Riv on Sat 23 Nov - 20:44

@Saracene wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:As for how explicit Rey and Kylo's dynamic will be, it's obvious based on the imagery that we're running full force on the romantic drama. I really don't see how one can misread this. We've barely seen anything but what we have seen involves incredibly overt imagery and suggestive dialogue. The framing of Rey standing at the hangar edge and Ben watching her with both of them totally still is completely transparent. The leaks were written through multi anti telephones and are still coming across clearly to me. The necklace, sneaking into his room, the healing, the reconciliation, Ben's face all the time, Ben pulling what is essentially a "run after the girl to tell her I love her" moment from a romantic comedy climax, Rey's expression, etc.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thing is, I don’t think that you can convey an explicit romantic drama with imagery and framing alone, especially in something like SW. Millions of people, not antis but just your average GA, will see the same imagery and it won’t occur to them to interpret the dynamic as romantic. Unless it’s something like a kiss or verbal confession, or an outside character commenting, we’ll just be in the same ambiguous land where it’s the matter of personal reading and interpretation and the whole romantic aspect can be dismissed.
@Saracene

The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Giphy

I agree 100%.
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Post by nickandnora on Sat 23 Nov - 21:27

@Saracene wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:As for how explicit Rey and Kylo's dynamic will be, it's obvious based on the imagery that we're running full force on the romantic drama. I really don't see how one can misread this. We've barely seen anything but what we have seen involves incredibly overt imagery and suggestive dialogue. The framing of Rey standing at the hangar edge and Ben watching her with both of them totally still is completely transparent. The leaks were written through multi anti telephones and are still coming across clearly to me. The necklace, sneaking into his room, the healing, the reconciliation, Ben's face all the time, Ben pulling what is essentially a "run after the girl to tell her I love her" moment from a romantic comedy climax, Rey's expression, etc.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thing is, I don’t think that you can convey an explicit romantic drama with imagery and framing alone, especially in something like SW. Millions of people, not antis but just your average GA, will see the same imagery and it won’t occur to them to interpret the dynamic as romantic. Unless it’s something like a kiss or verbal confession, or an outside character commenting, we’ll just be in the same ambiguous land where it’s the matter of personal reading and interpretation and the whole romantic aspect can be dismissed.
@Saracene

I think maybe what @FrolickingFizzgig means is that based on what they HAVE showed of the film in promotions or trailers so far, the imagery and framing is telling us that in all likelihood it WILL become explicit. Otherwise it's romantic imagery for the sake of romantic imagery... and that's it.

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Post by californiagirl on Sat 23 Nov - 21:41

Even if Daisy doesn't love Reylo, that doesn't necessarily means she hates it either. There's more than a binary here.

Even though JJ often changes things or takes suggestions from actors, it's only up to a point. Mark and Oscar have both been pretty open about not getting everything they want in TROS. Probably because what they want is either not set up properly, doesn't make sense in the story, or is additional baggage that takes away focus from higher priority characters and stories. If Daisy had a really bad idea, I don't think they'd roll with it either.
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Post by Gemini on Sat 23 Nov - 21:59

@Moonlight13

Hey, which one says the "final battle for freedom" because that's what's on the poster/s and book (battle on the tractor beam) the final battle to free Ben solo from the dark side?


Last edited by Gemini on Sat 23 Nov - 22:00; edited 1 time in total
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 23 Nov - 21:59

@nickandnora wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:As for how explicit Rey and Kylo's dynamic will be, it's obvious based on the imagery that we're running full force on the romantic drama. I really don't see how one can misread this. We've barely seen anything but what we have seen involves incredibly overt imagery and suggestive dialogue. The framing of Rey standing at the hangar edge and Ben watching her with both of them totally still is completely transparent. The leaks were written through multi anti telephones and are still coming across clearly to me. The necklace, sneaking into his room, the healing, the reconciliation, Ben's face all the time, Ben pulling what is essentially a "run after the girl to tell her I love her" moment from a romantic comedy climax, Rey's expression, etc.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thing is, I don’t think that you can convey an explicit romantic drama with imagery and framing alone, especially in something like SW. Millions of people, not antis but just your average GA, will see the same imagery and it won’t occur to them to interpret the dynamic as romantic. Unless it’s something like a kiss or verbal confession, or an outside character commenting, we’ll just be in the same ambiguous land where it’s the matter of personal reading and interpretation and the whole romantic aspect can be dismissed.
@Saracene

I think maybe what @FrolickingFizzgig means is that based on what they HAVE showed of the film in promotions or trailers so far, the imagery and framing is telling us that in all likelihood it WILL become explicit. Otherwise it's romantic imagery for the sake of romantic imagery... and that's it.
@nickandnora
Yes, this is what I meant.
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Post by loversinthestorm on Sat 23 Nov - 22:01

If Daisy really had the power to change reylo then that means reylo isn't the main focus of this trilogy / something planned since the beginning. It's as If john could sundely become the main protagonist just because he asked or Daisy could change the fact that Rey is force sensitive.

If it's really planned she can't change, and If it's not then It would never happen anyway.

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Post by Gemini on Sat 23 Nov - 22:05

@OrionStars wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig



You want an example? here is an example
http://news.mtime.com/2018/01/04/1577050-3.html#content

"The audience’s view of Kylo will change dramatically. Rey thinks that Kylo wants to redeem. She can understand him too, I am very happy that they have reached some understanding, but in the end, Kylo is a [censored], so I think...He is just lonely. I can understand what fans will think, but I don't support them as a CP."

“I don’t think in films you always need a romantic relationship and I think friendship can be romantic in their gestures and their intimacy and all of that."


Sorry for not sugarcoating Ridley's propaganda and what her holy trio is promoting right now. And even though I'm not sugarcoating it, it doesn't mean I took my anger out on her.
@OrionStars

I still think shes only talking about where they are at the start of the movie.

Like Special Cases thinks as well, the story is about Rey running and being a catalyst for change in Kylo and her love only comes when Ben returns. That doesnt mean she doesnt have feelings for kylo whilst he is still dark. I think she does but she will keep fighting the clear temptation.  It always just reminds me of Spuffy lol. Buffy gave in to dark spike but she wouldn't allow herself to fall into the dark. He had to change before she finally allowed herself to accept her love for him.
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Post by special_cases on Sat 23 Nov - 23:10

Daisy could have asked to make focus on Rey being more hostile to Kylo since separation and asked to not include kiss because she is uncomfortable and because she wants to make it more "spiritual" from Rey. And JJ wouldn't say no to her in this case. Just a thought.
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Post by nickandnora on Sat 23 Nov - 23:27

@special_cases wrote:Daisy could have asked to make focus on Rey being more hostile to Kylo since separation and asked to not include kiss because she is uncomfortable and because she wants to make it more "spiritual" from Rey. And JJ wouldn't say no to her in this case. Just a thought.
@special_cases

Perhaps, though her phrasing of it made it seem more "extreme" and event oriented.

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sat 23 Nov - 23:33

@special_cases wrote:Daisy could have asked to make focus on Rey being more hostile to Kylo since separation and asked to not include kiss because she is uncomfortable and because she wants to make it more "spiritual" from Rey. And JJ wouldn't say no to her in this case. Just a thought.
@special_cases

Or no kiss until Ben is completely redeemed/Beauty and the Beast transformation. She didn't want a kiss when Ben is wavering with the Kylo persona..

...Or maybe she wanted Dark Rey - maybe Dark Rey's inclusion is because of Daisy.??

Or, maybe Dark Rey was a vision, versus real, or vice versa?

Could be a number of scenarios
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Post by MaddieDove on Sun 24 Nov - 0:51

@snufkin wrote:It will never cease to amaze me the lengths that supposed fans of the ST, which is centered around a young woman and is shouldered by a neophyte doing her first job ever and likely handling the intense scrutiny better than any of us ever could have managed at that age, will scrutinize, complain about, and criticize every single goddamn thing she does while simultaneously falling all over themselves to praise the slightest thing the male lead does. Who likely got a better contract deal than she did which includes not having to be the public face of the trilogy. If the ST world reflected our world where women can't win no matter what the f**k they do, especially if they're young and thrust into a public position, no wonder Rey goes dark. Because she likely gets the same amount of grief and sh*t talk from the galaxy in regards to her being the Last Jedi and public face of the Resistance.
@snufkin

This is a little bit unfair towards us reylo fans. The dissatisfaction with the development where the actors are/seem to be cold towards the aspects of the story we cherish is not necessarily gendered - Mark was critical and salty, and many of us disliked it equally. It's only natural.

However, this whole discussion started because there's no balance at all in terms of two performers of the couple being present in the marketing and promotion period. It's natural that we're craving to see the perspective of the other actor, and we are getting frustrated with every new announcement that fails to include Adam, and especially the last opportunity to see both of them together. I wouldn't care as much if Daisy doesn't discuss, endorse or tease reylo if there's Adam there to balance the things out. I wouldn't expect him to spoil the movie, or be all serious about reylo, or be reylo himself at all (they're there to sell the movie, not their own reading), but this whole pressure on Daisy could be lifted if only her, with Boyega, are not the only flavor we're being offered. And that's on Disney, not on us. I can easily imagine Daisy and Adam playing funny games in interviews, where Daisy would 'fake' play a hard to get and an 'anti', and Adam would joke about how the dark side would seduce her at the end... there's ton of fun and jokey stuff they could do in promotion, if only Adam is there. Domhnall Gleeson was so much fun, Gwendoline was awesome, there so much opportunity for pure fun in promotion this time around as well, to play around reylo, why not. If only... This way it seems sometimes reylos are lepers that don't deserve fun at all, but are expected to give their money and be happy about whatever scrap we're getting. While the antis and haters get Vader comics printed and canonized about crazy anonymous stalker girl enamoured with the villain. Yes, I'm still hurt by that.
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Post by Atenais on Sun 24 Nov - 1:11

@special_cases wrote:Daisy could have asked to make focus on Rey being more hostile to Kylo since separation and asked to not include kiss because she is uncomfortable and because she wants to make it more "spiritual" from Rey. And JJ wouldn't say no to her in this case. Just a thought.
@special_cases

Who wouldn't kiss Adam Driver??? *kidding, guys*
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Post by OrionStars on Sun 24 Nov - 1:37

@FrolickingFizzgig

From my point of view, I don't think the problem is about the translation, it's not that the Chinese reporter couldn't understand English and couldn't translate what Ridley said very well. The problem is some of us can't accept that Ridley could even say that and she didn't like the idea of shipping Reylo at all. To be clear, that interview was published after TLJ got the very first screening in China. The Chinese reporter asked a very simple question that did Ridley support Reylo to become a couple? because Reylo had a lot of fans in China since TFA and the young fans were all eager to hear the actress' opinion, and she crushed them and outrightly said "No", she even went far to the point that she deliberately kept criticizing Kylo so Mark had to immediately interrupt her and said "Nope!!! Kylo was misunderstood, he was a misguided young boiii" in order to stop Ridley from sh*tting on Kylo, discouraging Chinese Reylos who were just new fans of the franchise and killing the future of SW franchise in China.  Back in 2018 when that interview just got out, I remember hearing people excused that even if Ridley didn't like Reylo, that didn't matter because Ridley was just an actress who was hired to play Rey. But now everyone knows that Ridley could influence JJ  to change the plot point of TROS, so we have to use "bad translation" as an excuse of what Ridley told the international fans, huh?
Frankly, I don't have the intention of opposing Ridley's opinion and I'm fine with whatever she wants for Rey, but please, have mercy, just Rey only please, please don't turn Ben into a sacrificial lamb for Rey's glory, TROS marketing has seriously lower down my expectation, now I'm just a pathetic Ben's stan who is praying that JJ was kind enough to spare Ben Solo's life in TROS.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Sun 24 Nov - 2:05

@Gemini wrote:@Moonlight13

Hey, which one says the "final battle for freedom" because that's what's on the poster/s and book (battle on the tractor beam) the final battle to free Ben solo from the dark side?
@Gemini
The one from my country Smile (You can see it when you choose one of the options on the left):
https://www.cinemarkhoyts.com.ar/pelicula/STAR-WARS-EL-ASCENSO-DE-SKYWALKER
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Post by tukicarreno on Sun 24 Nov - 2:23

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:As for how explicit Rey and Kylo's dynamic will be, it's obvious based on the imagery that we're running full force on the romantic drama. I really don't see how one can misread this. We've barely seen anything but what we have seen involves incredibly overt imagery and suggestive dialogue. The framing of Rey standing at the hangar edge and Ben watching her with both of them totally still is completely transparent. The leaks were written through multi anti telephones and are still coming across clearly to me. The necklace, sneaking into his room, the healing, the reconciliation, Ben's face all the time, Ben pulling what is essentially a "run after the girl to tell her I love her" moment from a romantic comedy climax, Rey's expression, etc.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Thing is, I don’t think that you can convey an explicit romantic drama with imagery and framing alone, especially in something like SW. Millions of people, not antis but just your average GA, will see the same imagery and it won’t occur to them to interpret the dynamic as romantic. Unless it’s something like a kiss or verbal confession, or an outside character commenting, we’ll just be in the same ambiguous land where it’s the matter of personal reading and interpretation and the whole romantic aspect can be dismissed.
@Saracene

I think maybe what @FrolickingFizzgig means is that based on what they HAVE showed of the film in promotions or trailers so far, the imagery and framing is telling us that in all likelihood it WILL become explicit. Otherwise it's romantic imagery for the sake of romantic imagery... and that's it.
@nickandnora
Yes, this is what I meant.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Exactly! Totally agree with @FrolickingFizzgig
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Post by californiagirl on Sun 24 Nov - 2:46

I really, really don't think Daisy has the power to change the plot of TROS. Certain dialogue, certain details, sure. We are really overestimating actors' power over a story, even with a director as receptive as JJ. He recently said there weren't as many rewrites or reshoots as TFA, which says a lot. And throws the leakers "all these main parts of the story could change because of reshoots" even further into question.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 24 Nov - 3:52

What she  says doesn't change anything anyway. I remember her revealing she went to Rian Johnson's office saying "we need to talk" after reading the scenario. Obviously, there were certain things that raised question in her mind but anyway she signed a contract to carry on her role so she is not the one to decide in which direction it should go or not. Depending on what is really behind the connection between Kylo and Rey and what exactly means the idea of "two sides of the same protagonist", things can go in different directions. IMO that was definitely no coincidence that Williams left clues of romance in the music. Now when TFA was on projet, it was in 2013-2015 before the beginning of the Me Too era. So it's clear that Rey's role and how her journey will end wil get scrutiny. The political context shouldn't be undermined. To be honest, that worries me a little in regard to what they plan for her heroin journey.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 24 Nov - 4:07

@reylo1992 wrote:What she  says doesn't change anything anyway. I remember her revealing she went to Rian Johnson's office saying "we need to talk" after reading the scenario. Obviously, there were certain things that raised question in her mind but anyway she signed a contract to carry on her role so she is not the one to decide in which direction it should go or not. Depending on what is really behind the connection between Kylo and Rey and what exactly means the idea of "two sides of the same protagonist", things can go in different directions. IMO that was definitely no coincidence that Williams left clues of romance in the music. Now when TFA was on projet, it was in 2013-2015 before the beginning of the Me Too era. So it's clear that Rey's role and how her journey will end wil get scrutiny. The political context shouldn't be undermined. To be honest, that worries me a little in regard to what they plan for her heroin journey.
@reylo1992

JJ mentioned though that his aim was to create a conclusion for the Skywalker Saga that makes sense 100 years from now. That tells me, that although perhaps he wishes to be progressive in mindset, he's not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater (or use the saying of your preference).

"It’s not to say I still don’t feel like a good story forces you to ask a question. But an ending needs to be, by definition, conclusive. I keep imagining a kid watching these nine movies a hundred years from now, so there needs to be a sense of inevitability and continuity to it."

More of the quote, same paragraph "But again, if you’re not having fun, if you’re not at least trying to be delightful, you’re doomed. So there are things in the movie that, I think, might be crazy — but are some of my favorite things. And whether people accept them is up to them."

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/j-j-abrams-secrets-skywalker-130057745.html
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Post by nickandnora on Sun 24 Nov - 5:19

I think Daisy insinuating that she got something changed due to her wishes with J.J. is "problematic" in a nuanced way that we're not actually discussing. The question is if (and this is a big if) it's something like "J.J. wanted Reylo to kiss and I didn't want that and he eventually agreed with me" then WHY on earth would you want to put that on yourself, make that public? That's huge, to be the person who decided how literally the biggest relationship on film in recent memory would go, when you weren't even the one writing it? If Daisy ever admits this in public (like, admits specifically what it was she got changed) she's sillier than I would have ever thought possible, because she's going to have a reputation in the industry for a) being extremely difficult, b) being prideful for being extremely difficult, as well as just painting a target on her back for passionate fans who are out to get her.

Thing is, even though I'm into the idea of Reylo, if I step back and objectively look at the thing, I recognize there are multiple ways that it could play out at the end. Do you make them kiss passionately? Just embrace? Leave each other with a promise and hope for the future? Make it ambiguous enough to let the audience decide? Insinuate with words, looks, gestures...? Even though I WANT them to kiss, if I was directing and writing the story, would I actually be resolute that was the best course of action? Truthfully, no I wouldn't. I mention the North and South kiss (which was so well done and super hot), but if I'm being honest there are a lot of other onscreen kisses that are probably the *least* hot part of an onscreen romance. This is all to say that striking the right balance is probably extremely difficult and complicated even for J.J. who is the one doing the story. For Daisy to say (for instance) that it's all on her whatever the decision was (if it was in fact something important, which is up for debate anyway) is really undercutting the nuance of film making. Sure, I would have less respect for J.J. if it came out he let his actors make the decisions for him, but at the same time is that really the truth? Or is that just the story we would be getting from people thinking in oversimplified manners (ie. "I told him a thing, and he agreed; that was all ME!")

And this, in a nutshell is why I hate watching celebrity interviews and am kind if skeptical of interviews in general, lol.

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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 24 Nov - 5:48

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:What she  says doesn't change anything anyway. I remember her revealing she went to Rian Johnson's office saying "we need to talk" after reading the scenario. Obviously, there were certain things that raised question in her mind but anyway she signed a contract to carry on her role so she is not the one to decide in which direction it should go or not. Depending on what is really behind the connection between Kylo and Rey and what exactly means the idea of "two sides of the same protagonist", things can go in different directions. IMO that was definitely no coincidence that Williams left clues of romance in the music. Now when TFA was on projet, it was in 2013-2015 before the beginning of the Me Too era. So it's clear that Rey's role and how her journey will end wil get scrutiny. The political context shouldn't be undermined. To be honest, that worries me a little in regard to what they plan for her heroin journey.
@reylo1992

JJ mentioned though that his aim was to create a conclusion for the Skywalker Saga that makes sense 100 years from now.  That tells me, that although perhaps he wishes to be progressive in mindset, he's not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater (or use the saying of your preference).

"It’s not to say I still don’t feel like a good story forces you to ask a question. But an ending needs to be, by definition, conclusive. I keep imagining a kid watching these nine movies a hundred years from now, so there needs to be a sense of inevitability and continuity to it."

More of the quote, same paragraph "But again, if you’re not having fun, if you’re not at least trying to be delightful, you’re doomed. So there are things in the movie that, I think, might be crazy — but are some of my favorite things. And whether people accept them is up to them."

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/j-j-abrams-secrets-skywalker-130057745.html
@SW_Heroine_Journey

I must admit I was relieved when I learned that J.J. was the one who would wrap the franchise because I felt that there was a lot of coherence and potential behind TFA, which is needed for TROS, especially after TLJ. Not that I don't like this movie but I remember coming out from the theaters the first time feeling pretty frustrated  by so few questions answered in more than 2 hours. It can be fruastrating too to hear so many people including in your own entourage saying that TFA was too much like ANH, Rey is Luke's daughter, etc... It was funny but also weird to realize in the theaters that so many people didn't get the Reylo vibe until the chest scene or even during the hand touch. From my own experience, people have a hard time believing in the potential of that trilogy, which can be frustrating when you see/feel how TFA sets the potential for a really powerful narrative. And frankly, I was out of arguments after TLJ because it felt like potential was there but time was wasted with a lot of stuff that didn't  make sense beyond these Reylo scenes that are gold. And I was like: "Oh, ok...One movie of 2 hours left to wrap an entire franchise with so many unanswered questions. Gonna be challenging".

I am a fan from the Prequels generation, began by watching ROTS by accident and that's how I got interested in the franchise. That remains my favorite of all because I found it's the most powerful narrative to link the six movies. However, I have always felt that the ending of the franchise with ROTJ wasn't satisfying because I didn't feel like Anakin/Darth Vader's throwing the Big Bad into a pit as a result of 1 minute of flipping was something worth of redemption or defined as a Chosen One moment. In general, the entire franchise gives the impression of a wasted potential when it comes to the Skywalkers. Where TLJ gave me some bad vibe is that I came out from the theaters not feeling very respected as a viewer because it looked like Lucasfilm spent 2 hours mocking the fans for speculating too much or having specific expectations. Even the way Kathleen Kennedy described the title The Rise of Skywalker as provocation gave me a little pause.

Meanwhile, they make sure that everybody knows in the movies and interviews to put Rey high on a pedestal while bringing Ben always more down. I remember my brother being already annoyed by the childish behavior in TFA and literally facepalming in embarassment during the Luke vs. Kylo fight. I believe that J.J. has a powerful narrative to give profoundly satisfying answers to these questions but I remain careful based on my experience with TLJ. For me, TROS definitely has potential to be the greatest movie of the franchise because it has potential to fix things onnce and for all. But it also can also be a massive waste if executed poorly because it's this movie that will confirm or not  the potential of the sequel trilogy. I'm really excited to discover the narrative they chose to go with. The only thing I really care about is a coherent story that deals properly with the original narrative of the Chosen One and the struggles of Skywalker family, while making sure that the answers are reletable for random viewers who spend few/no time watching Star Wars series outside of the Skywalker franchise and have no clue how the characters from these series are supposed to fit in this specific story.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 24 Nov - 6:04

@nickandnora
People have so many different ideas about how they want the conclusion to play out that it's not hard to imagine the amount of thought that had to go into crafting it. Even within the Reylo fandom I've encountered a hundred ideas of what people want out of this dynamic. Personally, I would be most pleased with a finale that highlights the power of selfless and unconditional love, not just romance. Romance is not love. I want the conclusion to make me ecstatic and hopeful and believe in human nature, and I do believe the bones of that are visible in the incomplete picture we currently have. I imagine some would even argue that my ideal conclusion isn't even explicit Reylo as I'm much more a fan of the "hope for the future" theme.

I think much of the fixation on a highly specific outcome for Rey and Ben has actually come from being repeatedly told nothing could ever happen by the anti crowd. Being talked over and called amoral and all kinds of other horrible things takes its toll. I completely understand how hurt and gaslighted Reylos have been over the past four years because I've been here since the beginning. Wanting to be right and to stick it to the nastiest part of the fandom is certainly a desire I empathize with, but I do think it has clouded the playing field in a way.
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Post by rey09 on Sun 24 Nov - 6:47

@special_cases wrote:Daisy could have asked to make focus on Rey being more hostile to Kylo since separation and asked to not include kiss because she is uncomfortable and because she wants to make it more "spiritual" from Rey. And JJ wouldn't say no to her in this case. Just a thought.
@special_cases

Really don't get where this kind of speculation is coming from. We'll never know about everyone's true thoughts until after the movie. Daisy has said both positive and negative things over the years. Also kissing really isn't a big deal? It'd be pretty petty of her as an actress to ask to not kiss if she were directed to.

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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 24 Nov - 7:15

@nickandnora wrote:I think Daisy insinuating that she got something changed due to her wishes with J.J. is "problematic" in a nuanced way that we're not actually discussing. The question is if (and this is a big if) it's something like "J.J. wanted Reylo to kiss and I didn't want that and he eventually agreed with me" then WHY on earth would you want to put that on yourself, make that public? That's huge, to be the person who decided how literally the biggest relationship on film in recent memory would go, when you weren't even the one writing it? If Daisy ever admits this in public (like, admits specifically what it was she got changed) she's sillier than I would have ever thought possible, because she's going to have a reputation in the industry for a) being extremely difficult, b) being prideful for being extremely difficult, as well as just painting a target on her back for passionate fans who are out to get her.

Thing is, even though I'm into the idea of Reylo, if I step back and objectively look at the thing, I recognize there are multiple ways that it could play out at the end. Do you make them kiss passionately? Just embrace? Leave each other with a promise and hope for the future? Make it ambiguous enough to let the audience decide? Insinuate with words, looks, gestures...? Even though I WANT them to kiss, if I was directing and writing the story, would I actually be resolute that was the best course of action? Truthfully, no I wouldn't. I mention the North and South kiss (which was so well done and super hot), but if I'm being honest there are a lot of other onscreen kisses that are probably the *least* hot part of an onscreen romance. This is all to say that striking the right balance is probably extremely difficult and complicated even for J.J. who is the one doing the story. For Daisy to say (for instance) that it's all on her whatever the decision was (if it was in fact something important, which is up for debate anyway) is really undercutting the nuance of film making. Sure, I would have less respect for J.J. if it came out he let his actors make the decisions for him, but at the same time is that really the truth? Or is that just the story we would be getting from people thinking in oversimplified manners (ie. "I told him a thing, and he agreed; that was all ME!")

And this, in a nutshell is why I hate watching celebrity interviews and am kind if skeptical of interviews in general, lol.
@nickandnora

Until Daisy gets out from the franchise, we won't know what it was anyway. She definitely doesn't have the same room for honesty as Mark to tell her opinion as freely as she wants. Now, she definitely went to see Rian Johnson because there was something in the scenario she needed to talk about and that maybe didn't go into the direction of the original scheme set by TFA. Given how the atmoshpere has become politically correct with MeToo, I am not so sure they will dare to go openly to that direction. Rey will definitely gets scrutiny given how her role in TFA was praised by critics for being a female role model to children. And from the few interview I saw; it's obvious Daisy is a little worried by how the relationship is perceived.

Being incolved these last months in a public issue closely related with the Me Too movement, I can confirm that everything related to abusive relationships/gender imbalance has become extremely political in Hollywood and that people in the industry seem complied to follow the movement for their career. So I guess that a young actress like Daisy can fear to be perceived in the industry as an actress who presents herself as feminist while not joining actions to words. Even for an entire crew, it's certainly a difficult issue to handle in this context. From what I see in the teasers/trailers, Kylo and Rey will fight in at least 4 different places, which is already a lot in 2 hours. There is also shots that suggest Kylo will continue to embrace his journey to darkness until the third act of the movie. That leaves questions marks to why and how he will go on redemption path and whether or not his action can compensate all past actions he did.

Another difficult thing to handle is that we have a franchise that turned around the idea that a Skywalker was the Chosen One for 40 years. In Lucasfilm, they wanted primarily a female character but didn't make her a Skywalker by blood while pushing the idea she is so important for the entire galaxy. Making her the true Chosen One will necessarily raise eyebrows because what was the point to tell Anakin's backstory if it's only to tell that the Skywalker are only there to be dysfonctional and her to fix their mess after 40 years? Making her the bearer of Kylo's light side would necessarily raise criticism because "But but  but, she got her power abilities from a man!". Making her the descendant of a lineage would raise criticism because she would be reduced to "daughter or granddaughter of". Making her a nobody would raise criticism because "she is too strong with the Force without no explanation". If she gets in a relationship with any man, there would be criticism because "But but but her journey shouldn't be about getting together with a man". So it's really complicated to handle because of many expectations toward Rey as female lead and many seem to think she is a poorly written character despite Daisy's amazing performances.

Now, let's keep in mind that barely two years ago, they were pushing Reylo much during promo in order to get the medias to finally understand they were going in this direction. Remember that article in which Adam and Daisy spent their time calling themselves besties and laughing for nothing?  Here again, is it coincidence that the medias didn't pick up the Reylo vibe until pretty late or were they voluntarily ignoring it? So now, I guess that one of the biggest spoiler the crew wanna avoid is how exactly the relationship will develop because I think that a lot of people can guess that Kylo will join force with her in the end. So maybe they simply don't wana push the Reylo thing because that's the key question everybody has in mind aside from people who still haven't got that Ben is the only Skywalker by blood. They definitely went back to the pure confrontational aspect of the relationship and what binds them aside from potential romantic feeling. Obviously, only one journalist back in April 2019 had got that that Ben is the Skywalker of the Sequels and asked the question about the title. By the way, I love J.J. and Daisy's answers:  

Journalist: "The title of the film is the Rise of Skywalker. We know that there is only one Skywalker, Ben Solo"

J.J.: Keep on...
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Tenor10

Daisy: You're the first person who has said that. He is a Skywalker yes...
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Source10

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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 24 Nov - 8:42

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@nickandnora
People have so many different ideas about how they want the conclusion to play out that it's not hard to imagine the amount of thought that had to go into crafting it. Even within the Reylo fandom I've encountered a hundred ideas of what people want out of this dynamic. Personally, I would be most pleased with a finale that highlights the power of selfless and unconditional love, not just romance. Romance is not love. I want the conclusion to make me ecstatic and hopeful and believe in human nature, and I do believe the bones of that are visible in the incomplete picture we currently have. I imagine some would even argue that my ideal conclusion isn't even explicit Reylo as I'm much more a fan of the "hope for the future" theme.

I think much of the fixation on a highly specific outcome for Rey and Ben has actually come from being repeatedly told nothing could ever happen by the anti crowd. Being talked over and called amoral and all kinds of other horrible things takes its toll. I completely understand how hurt and gaslighted Reylos have been over the past four years because I've been here since the beginning. Wanting to be right and to stick it to the nastiest part of the fandom is certainly a desire I empathize with, but I do think it has clouded the playing field in a way.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Agree. Personally, I felt Reylo was a thing from the moment Kylo took off his mask to reveal a seductive guy who only got silky hair, obvious make-up and kissy lips in the presence of the Girl. Although I don't think it was coincidence that J.J. called Rey Cinderella and Williams introduced romantic hints in their music, it also could be that Reylo was not necessarily to become overtly romantic depending on how the story would evolve.

Many people didn't even get the Reylo vibe in TFA and Rian played on cliche to some degree in TLJ even if it definitely secured the relationship  as the focal point of the Sequel for the audience. Even people who didn't like TLJ recognize that the good part of it was the "Reylo" scenes whatever the idea behind was.

I think it depends very much what they mean with Kylo and Rey being like "two halves of a protagonist" and "two pieces coming together", knowing that Rey must be given a place that makes sense in that narrative without endangering the whole fundations of the original story. It definitely has the potential to be romantic but it seems clear that this isn't the  primary reason for the relationship to exist contrary to Anidala. Even if there are reference to Beauty and the Beast in the shot of Rey looking at the mask, the primary parallel regarding that mask is with Hamlet and the Lion King by extension. And speaking of that, the mirror scene in TLJ and the ROS concept art both allude strongly to the "remember who you are" scene from the Lion King.

Simba: "It's just my reflection"
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Hes-in11
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Captur10
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Captur11

Rafiki: "No. Look harder"
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 F91a9111
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Starwa12
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Giphy_11

The Lion King teaser and the Japanese TFA teaser

Rafiki : "Who are you?"
Simba: "I am nobody"
[...]
Simba: "I am Simba, son of Mufasa"

Maz   : "Who are you?"
Rey    : "I am no one"
[...]
Maz   : " Hope (Ben) is not lost today. It (He) is found"
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Captur12



Maz: "That lightsaber was Luke's and his father's before him. And now, it calls to you"
Kylo: "That lightsaber. It belongs to me"
Lawrence Kasdan: "The lightsaber flies into her hand because it belongs into her hand"
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Rey-li10

Kylo to Rey: "You have no place in this story. You come from nothing. You are nothing. But not to me"
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 6 Gy2njm10
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Post by Gemini on Sun 24 Nov - 8:51

@Moonlight13 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:@Moonlight13

Hey, which one says the "final battle for freedom" because that's what's on the poster/s and book (battle on the tractor beam) the final battle to free Ben solo from the dark side?
@Gemini
The one from my country Smile (You can see it when you choose one of the options on the left):
https://www.cinemarkhoyts.com.ar/pelicula/STAR-WARS-EL-ASCENSO-DE-SKYWALKER
@Moonlight13

Thank you much. Smile

Battle for freedom. Liking the description.
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