The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 24 Nov - 21:16

@Saracene wrote:
@special_cases wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig I agree that this doesn't make any sense storywise but there is reason I called it cynical opinion. There are some things in SW that never made sense to me storywise. I mean, Rey could find her belonging among her friends, after she balanced herself and faced her dark side struggles, and being spiritual heir of heroic Skywalkers, blah-blah-blah.
@special_cases

I think that TLJ kinda re-framed Rey’s search for belonging; in TFA she’s merely waiting for her parents and that’s pretty much her entire scope, but in TLJ it’s put like she wants to find her place “in all of this”, which IMO sounds more like wanting to find a purpose or something along these lines. JJ recently described her as a character who struggles with her place in the world. Finding a place in the world doesn’t always have to be about finding relationships and connections, though I’m in full agreement that this is what a girl like Rey would realistically care about the most... but then at this point she already has friends and people who care about her? I also really really doubt that, in the current climate, “finding belonging with a man” is the sort of ending they’d do for Rey. (As an aside, I’m really curious how Disney is going to “modernise” Little Mermaid; you can bet Ariel’s decisions are totally not going to be about a man).
@Saracene
I don't think she has to exclusively find belonging with a man and I really don't know why you would think that was in any way, shape or form the basis of my argument. It was about Rey and how, despite what you may believe, the writers are still emphasizing that relationships and connections are important. Have you heard KK wax about the Skywalker family and about love and the power of friendship? It's all they talk about, in fact. Rey finding her place in the world is not mutually exclusive from Rey having friendships and relationships. This has absolutely nothing to do do with Rey and Ben and I'm honestly rather frustrated that I of all people would be read as arguing that Rey's belonging should be with a man exclusively.

In a story that has also been all about the burdens of legacy and being your own individual I really doubt that the ending is exclusively going to be Rey attaching herself to a legacy ala Titanic with no other nuances or complexities at play.
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Post by Teo oswald on Sun 24 Nov - 21:37

@reylo1992 wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think Daisy insinuating that she got something changed due to her wishes with J.J. is "problematic" in a nuanced way that we're not actually discussing. The question is if (and this is a big if) it's something like "J.J. wanted Reylo to kiss and I didn't want that and he eventually agreed with me" then WHY on earth would you want to put that on yourself, make that public? That's huge, to be the person who decided how literally the biggest relationship on film in recent memory would go, when you weren't even the one writing it? If Daisy ever admits this in public (like, admits specifically what it was she got changed) she's sillier than I would have ever thought possible, because she's going to have a reputation in the industry for a) being extremely difficult, b) being prideful for being extremely difficult, as well as just painting a target on her back for passionate fans who are out to get her.

Thing is, even though I'm into the idea of Reylo, if I step back and objectively look at the thing, I recognize there are multiple ways that it could play out at the end. Do you make them kiss passionately? Just embrace? Leave each other with a promise and hope for the future? Make it ambiguous enough to let the audience decide? Insinuate with words, looks, gestures...? Even though I WANT them to kiss, if I was directing and writing the story, would I actually be resolute that was the best course of action? Truthfully, no I wouldn't. I mention the North and South kiss (which was so well done and super hot), but if I'm being honest there are a lot of other onscreen kisses that are probably the *least* hot part of an onscreen romance. This is all to say that striking the right balance is probably extremely difficult and complicated even for J.J. who is the one doing the story. For Daisy to say (for instance) that it's all on her whatever the decision was (if it was in fact something important, which is up for debate anyway) is really undercutting the nuance of film making. Sure, I would have less respect for J.J. if it came out he let his actors make the decisions for him, but at the same time is that really the truth? Or is that just the story we would be getting from people thinking in oversimplified manners (ie. "I told him a thing, and he agreed; that was all ME!")

And this, in a nutshell is why I hate watching celebrity interviews and am kind if skeptical of interviews in general, lol.
@nickandnora

Until Daisy gets out from the franchise, we won't know what it was anyway. She definitely doesn't have the same room for honesty as Mark to tell her opinion as freely as she wants. Now, she definitely went to see Rian Johnson because there was something in the scenario she needed to talk about and that maybe didn't go into the direction of the original scheme set by TFA. Given how the atmoshpere has become politically correct with MeToo, I am not so sure they will dare to go openly to that direction. Rey will definitely gets scrutiny given how her role in TFA was praised by critics for being a female role model to children. And from the few interview I saw; it's obvious Daisy is a little worried by how the relationship is perceived.

Being incolved these last months in a public issue closely related with the Me Too movement, I can confirm that everything related to abusive relationships/gender imbalance has become extremely political in Hollywood and that people in the industry seem complied to follow the movement for their career. So I guess that a young actress like Daisy can fear to be perceived in the industry as an actress who presents herself as feminist while not joining actions to words. Even for an entire crew, it's certainly a difficult issue to handle in this context. From what I see in the teasers/trailers, Kylo and Rey will fight in at least 4 different places, which is already a lot in 2 hours. There is also shots that suggest Kylo will continue to embrace his journey to darkness until the third act of the movie. That leaves questions marks to why and how he will go on redemption path and whether or not his action can compensate all past actions he did.

Another difficult thing to handle is that we have a franchise that turned around the idea that a Skywalker was the Chosen One for 40 years. In Lucasfilm, they wanted primarily a female character but didn't make her a Skywalker by blood while pushing the idea she is so important for the entire galaxy. Making her the true Chosen One will necessarily raise eyebrows because what was the point to tell Anakin's backstory if it's only to tell that the Skywalker are only there to be dysfonctional and her to fix their mess after 40 years? Making her the bearer of Kylo's light side would necessarily raise criticism because "But but  but, she got her power abilities from a man!". Making her the descendant of a lineage would raise criticism because she would be reduced to "daughter or granddaughter of". Making her a nobody would raise criticism because "she is too strong with the Force without no explanation". If she gets in a relationship with any man, there would be criticism because "But but but her journey shouldn't be about getting together with a man". So it's really complicated to handle because of many expectations toward Rey as female lead and many seem to think she is a poorly written character despite Daisy's amazing performances.

Now, let's keep in mind that barely two years ago, they were pushing Reylo much during promo in order to get the medias to finally understand they were going in this direction. Remember that article in which Adam and Daisy spent their time calling themselves besties and laughing for nothing?  Here again, is it coincidence that the medias didn't pick up the Reylo vibe until pretty late or were they voluntarily ignoring it? So now, I guess that one of the biggest spoiler the crew wanna avoid is how exactly the relationship will develop because I think that a lot of people can guess that Kylo will join force with her in the end. So maybe they simply don't wana push the Reylo thing because that's the key question everybody has in mind aside from people who still haven't got that Ben is the only Skywalker by blood. They definitely went back to the pure confrontational aspect of the relationship and what binds them aside from potential romantic feeling. Obviously, only one journalist back in April 2019 had got that that Ben is the Skywalker of the Sequels and asked the question about the title. By the way, I love J.J. and Daisy's answers:  

Journalist: "The title of the film is the Rise of Skywalker. We know that there is only one Skywalker, Ben Solo"

J.J.: Keep on...
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Tenor10

Daisy: You're the first person who has said that. He is a Skywalker yes...
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Source10

@reylo1992

I fully agree on everything you said
but there is one thing to say. fans know how things are going, even Pablo said in a twitter that kylo Ren is the Skywalker in this series, but the general public is not, so I think there will be some nice surprises in the cinema.

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Post by nickandnora on Sun 24 Nov - 21:54


@nickandnora

It's funny how we think differently. For me, as long as we have a Skywalker descendent, the story needs to be told. When I heard about the *THE END* for the first time I thought, "oh, no! No baby Reylo".
@Atenais

I have to say, I'm leaving out one really big detail about how I think this is also "the end" in spite of the fact that they may (or may not) present a Reylo descendant. So there's that.

And again, I really waffle on the Reylo kid anyway. For awhile I was really sure they would do the (future baby) thing, and now I'm more thinking they probably won't and leave it up to imagination. But the way I AM thinking about this film in any respect is that J.J. is saying it's an ending in spite of the fact that he's not going to kill off all the characters in one fell swoop, lol. You could argue that as long as Rey is alive (and she's clearly going to be) they could continue her story. But that's not what he's saying. So therefore, I think there's something about the way he's going to present this ending, whatever it is, that demonstrates the people in it, and even their descendants (because I'm sure some people will have babies, right?) are just kind of done and this will be a time of rebuilding and peace, and hopefully of trying to find some normalcy. What I was trying to say (and maybe not doing a great job of) is that if they DO present an older Reylo child I think they will insinuate they just had a very normal, loving upbringing that was probably devoid of much drama. In that sense, there's not much that you can do with that, you know?


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Post by Saracene on Sun 24 Nov - 22:41

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@special_cases wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig I agree that this doesn't make any sense storywise but there is reason I called it cynical opinion. There are some things in SW that never made sense to me storywise. I mean, Rey could find her belonging among her friends, after she balanced herself and faced her dark side struggles, and being spiritual heir of heroic Skywalkers, blah-blah-blah.
@special_cases

I think that TLJ kinda re-framed Rey’s search for belonging; in TFA she’s merely waiting for her parents and that’s pretty much her entire scope, but in TLJ it’s put like she wants to find her place “in all of this”, which IMO sounds more like wanting to find a purpose or something along these lines. JJ recently described her as a character who struggles with her place in the world. Finding a place in the world doesn’t always have to be about finding relationships and connections, though I’m in full agreement that this is what a girl like Rey would realistically care about the most... but then at this point she already has friends and people who care about her? I also really really doubt that, in the current climate, “finding belonging with a man” is the sort of ending they’d do for Rey. (As an aside, I’m really curious how Disney is going to “modernise” Little Mermaid; you can bet Ariel’s decisions are totally not going to be about a man).
@Saracene
I don't think she has to exclusively find belonging with a man and I really don't know why you would think that was in any way, shape or form the basis of my argument. It was about Rey and how, despite what you may believe, the writers are still emphasizing that relationships and connections are important. Have you heard KK wax about the Skywalker family and about love and the power of friendship? It's all they talk about, in fact. Rey finding her place in the world is not mutually exclusive from Rey having friendships and relationships. This has absolutely nothing to do do with Rey and Ben and I'm honestly rather frustrated that I of all people would be read as arguing that Rey's belonging should be with a man exclusively.

In a story that has also been all about the burdens of legacy and being your own individual I really doubt that the ending is exclusively going to be Rey attaching herself to a legacy ala Titanic with no other nuances or complexities at play.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Umm... I wasn't even replying to your post so I'm not sure why you think this was directed at your argument?
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Post by OrionStars on Sun 24 Nov - 23:11

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Post by californiagirl on Sun 24 Nov - 23:13

So.... that Rolling Stone cover is real.

The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Scree659
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 24 Nov - 23:28

@special_cases wrote:@reylo1992 Yeah, I totally agree with you that there is undeserved backlash regarding Rey as a character. Which doesn't reflect on Daisy, mostly because she is extremely cute both on the screen and in real life and because she is hot so a lot of fanboys are not invested to roast here like they are doing with Kelly who doesn't present herself with more typical for Hollywood look.

There was backlash regarding Anakin's character in AoTC as western audience wasn't ready to see legendary Vader as emotional teen who is allowed to cry and scream because he is in emotional pain, and as sentimental fool in love who is obviously has no idea how to woo lady he loves or impress and court her properly. Fanboys who have been dreaming about cold blooded killer machine Vader for decades were in pure rage for destroying their dreams.

Anakin's transformation was tightly tied with loss of external and internal feminine part of himself and he wasn't portrayed as "strongz man", but as complicated emotional person with a lot of struggles. So the nature of these backlashes is not that different: masculine energy and essence is perceived with respect, acceptance and proclaimed "cool" and feminine is accepted only in strictly fixed roles and archetypes and prohibited in heroic and epic characters. That's why female heroes are so often resemble more stereotypical male heroes and every tiny shift to feminine archetypes is perceived as "weaknesses" and "implies" sexism.

Thanks God, Rey isn't victim of this when it comes to creators' intentions but we will see how then conclude her emotional arc. I wouldn't put it behind JJ to close her arc as "she is so grown up and strong now that she is not afraid to be alone, she doesn't need to depend emotionally on anybody".

Excuse me my cynicism, but I can see JJ totally doing it and everybody will be estatic about it because it's strong message for short term legacy of this story. In long term it will feel flat and will have zero impact on future culture but JJ isn't famous for such vision. Unlike George who was totally ahead of time with Anakin.
@special_cases

Anakin's transformation was tightly tied with loss of external and internal feminine part of himself and he wasn't portrayed as "strongz man", but as complicated emotional person with a lot of struggles.

That's really an interesting insight. Coincidentally, I came across a twitter post today that pointed out that Kylo's journey in TROS will be to reconcile finally with his feminide side after initially rejecting it. I found that idea so cool that I made a screenshot. That makes sense in regard to that narrative of the need for balance between yin and yang, dark and light, male and female energy. Although I haven't read Da Vinci Code, I found the analysis pointing the parallels with that story really brillant and definitely pertinent with this idea of giving to female energy its due importance.
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Captur14

I can't agree more regarding undeserved backlash toward Rey. I will never stress enough how much Daisy deserves credit for her portrayal of that character. I remember of an article praising the character and the acting for portraying in such a natural way a female heroin displaying a wide range of abilities. That's exactly how I perceived it during the screening: it just felt natural. What I like very much about that character is this combination of rawness and softness in her that feels completely natural without becoming caricaturally masculine or feminine.  That's not something so easy to find in characters and that's even more rare in female characters. I think Rey is indeed the first female heroin I could reqlly identify with in regard to this rawness without having the impression to see a caricaturally bad*** and/or seductive female character. That fierce stance and expression below is my favorite shot of her.
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Giphy_12

To me, the fact that she embodies this raw power so well and has a wide range of abilities have never been an issue. She embodies any gifted person in real life who is good at cultivating his/her abilies and there is no reason that only males would fit that category. Where it potentially becomes an issue is when the character seem to fill from the beginning of her arc all the physical, emotional and spiritual requirements that makes her worthy to become the Chosen One. I remember an article stressing that TFA Rey embodied everything what Anakin should have been, precisely because she doesn't display the emotional immaturity and tantrums of a teen. And here is what was written in a recent article:
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Captur15

I believe that's the profound point of why Rey possibly trigger some defiance regarding her final character development. Because she is perceived from the beginning as the One worthy to finally bring balance to the Force, it leads to dismissive comment on the importance of Anakin Skywalker who was the center of that story: first trilogy was about the journey to darkness ; second trilogy about the journey into darkness. As I previous in previous posts, I always felt like it lacked a journey to redemption in that story and a real "Chosen One" moment for all the galaxy to witness. To some degree, that was part of the problem that led to Ben's fall, the fact that nobody except Luke witnessed Anakin killing the Emperor, which isn't the equivalent of bringing balance to the Force and/or saving the Galaxy.

Despite my own concern that female empowerment as political agenda might weight a little too much in certain decisions, that doesn't mean I don't trust the ability of J.J. to bring a coherent story that will answers all key questions left in a profoundly satisfying way. I am persuaded that the marketing definitely gives away these answers depending on the message conveyed and how we interpret it. As I wrote in the prediction thread, I trust the analysis of Rey Kenobis because they did a hell of a good job although I couldn't follow everything.   As far as I understand the entire arc of the franchise, this is what is needed to finally defeat the Big Bad and bring balance to the Force:
- A Kenobi (Rey)
- The light side of a Skywalker (Ben = Anakin)
- The dark side of a Skywalker (Kylo = Vader)

As I wrote in previous post, the fact that Rey is a Kenobi doesn't answer completely the question of why her connection with Kylo is so strong that they literally copy each other and it definitely doesn't explain where come that raw power so similar to his. For Kylo, that can be easily explained if we admit that he got the Force energy from Anakin/Vader while being a foetus. But that's definitely more complicated to explain any direct transfer of Force energy from Anakin/Vader to Rey.  If we admit that a Kenobi and a Skywalker are needed to bring balance, why didn't it work with Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader in the first place? Because the combination wasn't exactly the right one?
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Jdr05k11

Maybe I am reaching too much here but I find interesting that the cover shows three hands  as if these hands were meant to form the Trinity - described as an unique God embodied in three distinct persons - with both Rey's hands  and only one of Kylo's hands  bounce    

Combination in the Prequels ?   ==> Anakin (light side) & Vader (dark side) / Kenobi (light side)

Combination in the Sequels?      ==> Kylo (dark side) / Ben & Rey (light side) ?

EDIT:

Note how one of Rey's arm is perfectly aligned with Kylo's (Ben + Kylo? ) while the other is distinct (Rey?)


Last edited by reylo1992 on Sun 24 Nov - 23:43; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Atenais on Sun 24 Nov - 23:34

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Post by Kylo Rey on Sun 24 Nov - 23:42

@OrionStars

Beautiful cover. Adam looks fantastic. Snagged the spotlight for their Star Wars issue, you love to see it Laughing
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Post by Atenais on Mon 25 Nov - 2:24

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker | Special Look

Check out this special look at how Star Wars has impacted pop culture over 4 decades. See the conclusion to the saga, Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker in theaters December 20!



Source: starwars

Nice video, but I only saw Adam for 1 second.
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Post by Riri on Mon 25 Nov - 11:11

Adam interview from Empire
https://twitter.com/Dandy1138/status/1198910203544117251?s=20
"From my first meeting with JJ about Star Wars,he told me the overall arc for Kylo's character. He didn't know how the three movies would end at that point, but by the start of the third movie,he had explained a journey that was an exciting idea for me to think about. A testament to JJ and Chris Terrio's writing on this one, i think, is that how Kylo's journey has evolved isn't explained in text, but hopefully it's felt"

Chris Terrio:
"I love writing for this guy.Partly because I feel like his innter conflict is a relatable thing.
I find that most bullies are just sad, they're trying to fill a hole inside them. His temper tantrums and his inability to control himself, his joining the Knights of Ren and leading them -clearly this guy is looking for some meaning and connection
He's the son of two heroes...Clearly his having done what he did to his father is something that doesn't go away.His kill the past mantra is him not wanting to look back. it's too painful. That's part of what we explore in this movie"

Also this was written in the Empire article "IX picks up in interesting ways. Rey has been tempted by the darkside in many different ways, and Ren has been tempted by the light"

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Post by SkyStar on Mon 25 Nov - 11:35

Omg that rolling stone cover!!
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Post by Casper on Mon 25 Nov - 15:35

Hot damn!  We're getting some good sith now.

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Post by Gemini on Mon 25 Nov - 15:47

@Riri wrote:Adam interview from Empire
https://twitter.com/Dandy1138/status/1198910203544117251?s=20
"From my first meeting with JJ about Star Wars,he told me the overall arc for Kylo's character. He didn't know how the three movies would end at that point, but by the start of the third movie,he had explained a journey that was an exciting idea for me to think about. A testament to JJ and Chris Terrio's writing on this one, i think, is that how Kylo's journey has evolved isn't explained in text, but hopefully it's felt"

Chris Terrio:
"I love writing for this guy.Partly because I feel like his innter conflict is a relatable thing.
I find that most bullies are just sad, they're trying to fill a hole inside them. His temper tantrums and his inability to control himself, his joining the Knights of Ren and leading them -clearly this guy is looking for some meaning and connection

He's the son of two heroes...Clearly his having done what he did to his father is something that doesn't go away.His kill the past mantra is him not wanting to look back. it's too painful. That's part of what we explore in this movie"

Also this was written in the Empire article "IX picks up in interesting ways. Rey has been tempted by the darkside in many different ways, and Ren has been tempted by the light"


REEEEEEYYYYYYYY!

@Riri




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Post by special_cases on Mon 25 Nov - 16:01

I decided not to post anymore on the forum yesterday but Daisy finally said that word that I wanted to hear since the beginning of press tour, and of course it's from international feature, French. I think these quotes are legit, can't imagine why any magazine will make up something like this.

Daisy: “I'm really appreciative of the relationship between Rey and Kylo and what writers have managed to do, this kind of LOVE/hate relationship. As if something drew them towards each other despite their will.”

https://twitter.com/sleemo_/status/1198982172532760576?s=19

I can imagine that certain parts of fandom is basically like this right now because there is no way to going back after this
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Giphy
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 25 Nov - 16:19

@special_cases wrote:I decided not to post anymore on the forum yesterday but Daisy finally said that word that I wanted to hear since the beginning of press tour, and of course it's from international feature, French. I think these quotes are legit, can't imagine why any magazine will make up something like this.

Daisy: “I'm really appreciative of the relationship between Rey and Kylo and what writers have managed to do, this kind of LOVE/hate relationship. As if something drew them towards each other despite their will.”

https://twitter.com/sleemo_/status/1198982172532760576?s=19

I can imagine that certain parts of fandom is basically like this right now because there is no way to going back after this
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Giphy
@special_cases

Interesting that she was willing  to stress her appreciation of the relationship in the French/European press while acting rather withdrawn in front of the American press and taking into account the critics aimed at the "toxicity" of the relationship. It shows how much the current context related to "MeToo in Hollywood matters:
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Post by Atenais on Tue 26 Nov - 13:27

TROS promo in Times Square:

The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Tros_t10
The Rise of Skywalker: Marketing - Page 8 Tros_t11

It's so nice to see them promoted together. Video here.

Source: sadboykyIo
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Post by rawpowah on Tue 26 Nov - 17:55

Love the Rolling Stones cover.

The interviews abroad are so different and open from the US ones. I feel like I'm reading about two different movies Laughing
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Post by tukicarreno on Tue 26 Nov - 18:48

@rawpowah wrote:Love the Rolling Stones cover.

The interviews abroad are so different and open from the US ones. I feel like I'm reading about two different movies Laughing
@rawpowah


Right? I noticed that too. Heh. I am so glad we got those foreign interviews! Very Happy
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Post by SanghaRen on Tue 26 Nov - 20:02

You know, so much for the GA not knowing deep down Kylo and Rey are not related. I had a chat with a colleague today on TRoS and to annoy him I said I knew things. Like Rey is going to die - he likes Rey. He said “not without taking someone else with her”. “Can’t do, he’s the last Skywalker.” “No, they can still make her...”, me: “Ewww”, him: “Why? Wait, er” (pause to think), “you’re right, ewww” And then he said “so they’re getting married?” Laughing I find it hilarious how easy it can go from A to Z with the GA while fans are raging wars against each other.
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Post by Atenais on Wed 27 Nov - 15:13

I hope we can see the entire cast.

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Post by tukicarreno on Wed 27 Nov - 15:34

@Atenais wrote:I hope we can see the entire cast.

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@Atenais

If only Adam gets to go to this press conference. But I don't want to get my hopes up... He probably as usual won't be there. Sigh.. Neutral
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Post by Atenais on Wed 27 Nov - 23:51

Now it's confirmed, the Hollywood premiere of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker will be Monday, December 16, 2019. Now we know when we have to leave Internet (if we want to be spoiler-free).

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Post by tukicarreno on Thu 28 Nov - 3:09

@Atenais wrote:Now it's confirmed, the Hollywood premiere of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker will be Monday, December 16, 2019. Now we know when we have to leave Internet (if we want to be spoiler-free).

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@Atenais

Will Adam be there? Let's just hope and pray! Pls Adam at least go to one SW event! Crying or Very sad
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Post by Atenais on Thu 28 Nov - 3:53

Yes, he will be there. There's also an event where a fan can watch the movie with him (look more here).
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