Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by vaderito on Sun 10 Nov - 7:25

@OrionStars wrote:@MaddieDove

Personally, I think the idea of Rey taking the last name is really absurd, unearned and forced. Even fanboys can't accept it. In the context of the story, there isn't any absolute solution that could solve all the problems that will be stirred up by Rey "Skywalker"

@OrionStars

That all stands but TROS clearly builds up to that and what fanboys (including us) think is not LFL concern. They make movies for masses and masses are much easier dazzled by twists (Rey is Emperor's granddaughter! Rey takes Skywalker name!) than minority that are fans. Take Reddit, for example. Reddit was in love with the Oracle and LFL removed it from the movie cause they deemed it confusing to the audience. So fanboys (including us) loving something didn't keep it in the movie, and fanboys (including us) hating something didn't take that out of the movie.

The leak is real. It isn't just footage and stills that prove it. It's the flow of the story. There's an organic flow especially in everything that leads up to Rey Palpatine reveal (aggressive training, hereditary force lightning, Sith dagger killing the parents, Dark Rey vision) and RRS (Leia's saber, Leia's death, Ben's death, Rey using 2 Skywalker sabers, Rey merging 2 Skywalker sabers into an Ultimate Skywalker Saber). It makes sense. Skywalkers are dead but their spirit lives in Rey. Yes, it's bad and cheesy af but it's obviously thought out and it flows. Bad things flow too. It makes narrative sense regardless of narrative being bad.
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Post by rawpowah on Sun 10 Nov - 7:28

My interest in this movie has evaporated almost completely. I hope Adam gets some good scenes at least.
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Post by rey09 on Sun 10 Nov - 7:45

Someone said a good point about how in the leaks, her parents died to protect her or something like that and then for her to take the skywalker name is a slap in the face for them. But even if her parents didn't matter, it still will never make sense, literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bad things can't flow, it's just bad.

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Post by rawpowah on Sun 10 Nov - 7:58

@Moonlight13 wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:@Moonlight13 What's the name of the drama? I'd like to watch it.
@rawpowah
It's called "Ashes of love" or "Heavy Sweetness, Ash-like Frost". It's available on Netflix and on YouTube. I totally recommend it. Smile
Here's the trailer (it contains spoilers!):
@Moonlight13

Thank you! I've been looking for a good drama for a while Smile
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 10 Nov - 8:04

This forum has become such a bummer.  I understand it's a way to protect expectations, yet...sigh...

Not going to even bother debating because there is no use, yet I only hope you're all (those leaning towards the negative) proven wrong because this forum has become a bummer. lol

(My personal feelings have not changed, if anyone is curious. And I'll clarify, if ??, just had to toss in my 2 pennies Very Happy Smile Razz)
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Post by californiagirl on Sun 10 Nov - 8:09

There's almost a confidence in how not confident people are. Since when did Twitter look like a beacon of hope and positivity in comparison? That's saying something honestly.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 10 Nov - 8:21

@californiagirl wrote:There's almost a confidence in how not confident people are. Since when did Twitter look like a beacon of hope and positivity in comparison? That's saying something honestly.
@californiagirl

Truly! It used to be the reverse! This was my oasis. Very Happy Smile

Plus, how this forum started. I'm not an OG Reylo, yet I'm aware about what occurred, and this forum's history. A lot of ironic sad....

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Post by Lovely_Rose on Sun 10 Nov - 8:41

I actually agree. Somehow it's become all too easy to put down positive expectations here. Not everyone is pessimistic about reylo, and the negativity shouldn't be forced down other user's throats.

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Post by nickandnora on Sun 10 Nov - 8:50

@rey09 wrote:Someone said a good point about how in the leaks, her parents died to protect her or something like that and then for her to take the skywalker name is a slap in the face for them. But even if her parents didn't matter, it still will never make sense, literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bad things can't flow, it's just bad.
@rey09

Possible she doesn't even know their names. If they were in hiding, or if they were ALWAYS in hiding, it's possible they don't even HAVE names.

Rey Skywalker works if Ben is alive (and especially if he is back to just being Ben Solo). And I think he is.

ETA: For the negative naysayers on here, take it from me: there is a way for the leaks to be true (I think they are true) and for them to be missing the scenes that are the glue that hold the actual emotional narrative together. There are missing scenes. There are missing scenes. THERE ARE MISSING SCENES. (Again, for the 1000th time: How does Ben get to Palpatine and Rey at the end? What are Finn and Poe doing, at all, ever? What is Rose doing, EVER? There are scenes missing. There are scenes missing. THERE ARE SCENES MISSING. This is not insignificant. If there is one scene missing, there is more than one scene missing.)

Can we please stop dealing in Sith absolutes? The leaks are scenes that most likely exist. Now use them to speculate on the actual movie that's missing context and resolution.

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 10 Nov - 9:18

@nickandnora wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Someone said a good point about how in the leaks, her parents died to protect her or something like that and then for her to take the skywalker name is a slap in the face for them. But even if her parents didn't matter, it still will never make sense, literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bad things can't flow, it's just bad.
@rey09

Possible she doesn't even know their names. If they were in hiding, or if they were ALWAYS in hiding, it's possible they don't even HAVE names.

Rey Skywalker works if Ben is alive (and especially if he is back to just being Ben Solo). And I think he is.

ETA: For the negative naysayers on here, take it from me: there is a way for the leaks to be true (I think they are true) and for them to be missing the scenes that are the glue that hold the actual emotional narrative together. There are missing scenes. There are missing scenes. THERE ARE MISSING SCENES. (Again, for the 1000th time: How does Ben get to Palpatine and Rey at the end? What are Finn and Poe doing, at all, ever? What is Rose doing, EVER? There are scenes missing. There are scenes missing. THERE ARE SCENES MISSING. This is not insignificant. If there is one scene missing, there is more than one scene missing.)

Can we please stop dealing in Sith absolutes? The leaks are scenes that most likely exist. Now use them to speculate on the actual movie that's missing context and resolution.
@nickandnora

Thank you! I'm agnostic about the leaks, yet agnostic indicates I am aware there is an aspect of truth to them, yet as snufkin indicated, bias and hearsey are involved, which must also be considered.

On the aspect of truth, you communicated about it a lot better than I can. Again, thank you! With the leak discussion, I always gravitate to your posts, consider them more, because you keep all of this in mind. Very Happy Smile
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 10 Nov - 9:45

Eh, I don't think it's movie destroying in itself but I honestly think there is no context that wil make "Rey, Rey Skywalker" not sound like an out-of-touch way of trying to make fans happy even when it follows absolutely nothing (which, sadly, I can totally see JJ doing. Sometimes I get the sense all Star Wars writers want a specific payoff without putting in the proper buildup). The legacy goes beyond the name and carries throughout all of the Skywalker lineage, but the name itself at this point is only attached to Luke. Who Rey barely even liked. Who is dead now. All of this gets even weirder if she's a Palpatine. Even Rey taking on Leia's name would make much more sense, and that would look bizarre too.
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Post by Teo oswald on Sun 10 Nov - 9:52

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@MaddieDove wrote:
@special_cases wrote:How will you guys feel if this "Bond, Rey James Bond"  moment is in the film but then it's revealed that Ben is either alive but separated from Rey or Ben is Force Ghost who can take physical form and look like he is real?

I personally not against Rey taking the name but I'm against the execution of everything. It's a cheap legacy if you need last young Skywalker to die to make Rey finally golden girl of the dynasty. I mean, Ben felt to the dark side in first place because HE IS SKYWALKER. I'm pretty frustrated that I never see this point from anybody in production (directors, writers, actors) when they discuss Ben's fall or his relationship with parents. He was targeted because of his lineage. That's how REAL legacy affected his life. His parents were able to save the galaxy but weren't able to protect their own kid. This is the most obvious logical conclusion. If Ben just dies in the end of his journey, it means that REAL legacy of Skywalkers is destruction and death. But in great glory (lol). Anakin was a destroyer but was destroyed and took Padme with him. Leia and Luke were heroes but were destroyed by Skywalker's legacy. Leia lost a career and a family because of this. Luke lost family and his faith because of this. If the last generation aka Ben is a destroyer who get destroyed in the end - there is no way to spin this whole story as not a pure tragedy. I mean, they can make it a tragedy, that's not the point. But will they PRESENT it as a tragedy? Because I'm not getting that vibe here. The only "hopeful" thing about leaked end is that you can save the name, I guess? Legacy of Skywalkers won't magically change just because someone worthy will adopt the title. Skywalkers were destroyers who were saving what they were destroying and all of them, literally ALL Skywalkers, including Han, were tragically dying while doing this.
@special_cases

I agree with this reasoning, and at this point, I hope that's why having Chris Terrio as co-writer can be a little reassuring. JJ's not so deep, but Terrio seems to be someone who has knowledge of classical narrative rules and hopefully would have caught all the repercussions and course corrected in the writing phase. Fingers crossed.
@MaddieDove

Do you remember Terrio's interview for Empire magazine, he said "Who is Rey? How can Rey become the spiritual heir to the Jedi? How can we give the most satisfying answer to that (...)"

plus the leaks. All of those things gave me the impression that they were assuming that if Rey takes the Skywalker last name, then she will become worthy of everything. I've got a bad feeling that they thought the legacy name was like Thor's hammer, not a person's last name anymore.
@OrionStars

I thought he didnt say it like that. Like shes the literal heir of the jedi. From what I can remember. He also said something that indicated she was not a spiritual heir. It was about who she is and what shes inherited.
@Gemini

When I read it... Chris is saying... does Rey have the strength and courage to carry on what she has inherited from the Jedi... but JJ is much more ambiguous

Regardless.. the name Skywalker is not necessarily emblematic of "jedi" the ultimate Jedi will always be Obi Wan..

The whole Reywalker BS even ins't about BEN.. it is about Rey as the actual protagonist.. if she is not a Skywalker.. she should get her own damn name.. create her own legend.. or find out what her actual name is. And yes I want a Reylo ending but no marrying Ben Solo to get a last name is some misogynistic BS too... General Organa.. Princess Organa is still listed as such on Star Wars web site.. no where do I see Mrs. Han Solo... Rolling Eyes

I said it years ago and all will say it again... if this is the ending of the ST.. JJ's mystery box.

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 7 Leslie-knope-trash-present
@spacebaby45678

watch the few seconds of this video.



@OrionStars

I will be honest, I just want Ben to survive and get a better life. Rey and Ridley can take whatever she wants, the legacy, the last name, but it has to be a fair trade, if she takes the legacy, then Ben has to be given a chance to survive. I'd rather take "no Reylo" than Ben's death. wrote:

Spoiler:
actually there is a video that talks about the leaks, and the fact that Ben Solo lives.
The old leaks of those people who put them online have been virtually updated . this is the video :



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Post by special_cases on Sun 10 Nov - 10:02

I sincerely don't understand what people who call out "the negativity" expect us to do? To not post? I personally don't post 80% things I want to say and I'm sure other Reylos are doing the same because we know that we will be called out. Accepting the possibility that leaks are true and that a lot of us won't get what we want is hardly a forced negativity. Actually, I don't see people here saying that Reylo isn't happening. Most discussions is about how we are supposedly not getting the execution of the story the way we want.

Maybe it will be news for someone here, and I don't want to sound harsh, but a lot of Reylos, including folks on this forum, had different expectations for TLJ and weren't happy with the movie just because Reylo happened. I am myself not happy with some vibe/tone nuances regarding Reylo and I never liked that Johnson executed Kylo's elitism in this manner. And I will never love "You're nothing" line and no context, which I perfectly aware of, will change it. But I still love TLJ and Reylo and Johnson.

And after experiencing pre-TLJ waiting period/marketing campaign, people have right to question creators' intentions and guard their expectations. When you already experienced that and then watched the actual movie, you already know how "established by fandom truths" and "only one reasonable" scenario got ignored by creators. People are not exaggerating that Rey's personal arc looks like a 100% priority for JJ. And he can have different wishes for her arc and as we already saw in TFA, JJ will sacrifice any meaningful emotional building to preferred outcome for great pacing ("Han is super important for Rey after one day of knowing", "Leia hugs Rey", "Rey and Finn are BFF without even spending a whole day together"). And when someone like JJ had a priority, then it's highly possible that everything else will be sacrificed for it if necessary. Remember what happened to Finn in TFA? Finn got an awesome intro based on Kasdan's idea and then JJ... lost inspiration. Rey was a priority. JJ got a storyline for Finn which let JJ create spectacular scene, like he loves, and then... boom, nothing makes sense but looks cool!
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Post by Teo oswald on Sun 10 Nov - 10:23

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Someone said a good point about how in the leaks, her parents died to protect her or something like that and then for her to take the skywalker name is a slap in the face for them. But even if her parents didn't matter, it still will never make sense, literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bad things can't flow, it's just bad.
@rey09

Possible she doesn't even know their names. If they were in hiding, or if they were ALWAYS in hiding, it's possible they don't even HAVE names.

Rey Skywalker works if Ben is alive (and especially if he is back to just being Ben Solo). And I think he is.

ETA: For the negative naysayers on here, take it from me: there is a way for the leaks to be true (I think they are true) and for them to be missing the scenes that are the glue that hold the actual emotional narrative together. There are missing scenes. There are missing scenes. THERE ARE MISSING SCENES. (Again, for the 1000th time: How does Ben get to Palpatine and Rey at the end? What are Finn and Poe doing, at all, ever? What is Rose doing, EVER? There are scenes missing. There are scenes missing. THERE ARE SCENES MISSING. This is not insignificant. If there is one scene missing, there is more than one scene missing.)

Can we please stop dealing in Sith absolutes? The leaks are scenes that most likely exist. Now use them to speculate on the actual movie that's missing context and resolution.
@nickandnora

Thank you! I'm agnostic about the leaks, yet agnostic indicates I am aware there is an aspect of truth to them, yet as snufkin indicated, bias and hearsey are involved, which must also be considered.

On the aspect of truth, you communicated about it a lot better than I can. Again, thank you! With the leak discussion, I always gravitate to your posts, consider them more, because you keep all of this in mind. Very Happy Smile
@SW_Heroine_Journey

I laughed when I read that they go on Tatooine.
Who told you that? Leia? for what reason?
  and then why?
I love to think that Ben is the one who wants to start a new life in the same place where it all started, with the woman he loves and with his new allies.
ok maybe i'm a little too optimistic but as long as i don't see the movie i'll support that Ben lives.
Then the fact that Rey becomes a Skywalker I will make myself a reason. We need to understand the film and then judge everything. Smile
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Post by nickandnora on Sun 10 Nov - 10:27

@special_cases

Hard not to make the planned protagonist's arc a priority though, don't you think? I guess it's a separate issue if you don't like how it's playing out in the execution, but I do get a little confused reading some of the critiques because (the way "we" tend to critique others for not understanding the obvious narrative), they sometimes seem to really be unaccepting of the fact that this is a heroine's journey, likely very akin to something like Jane Eyre (for instance), and that kind of needs to be understood first and foremost to accept everything else that follows. Connected to that, though many WANT Kylo to be the protagonist (because he's so interesting), he's really the heroine's foil, the same way Darcy, Rochester, or Mr. Thornton (etc.) are in all those classic heroines tales as well.

Finn and supporting characters become difficult to place because there's no 1:1 in the standard heroine's formula exactly, but it's almost useful to see someone like Finn like, I don't know, Jane Bennett or something, lol. But anyway, I recognize there is some narrative iffyness with Finn, but I think if he was actually a female character this would be resolved somewhat. That's kind of interesting to think about.

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 10 Nov - 10:31

@Teo oswald wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Someone said a good point about how in the leaks, her parents died to protect her or something like that and then for her to take the skywalker name is a slap in the face for them. But even if her parents didn't matter, it still will never make sense, literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bad things can't flow, it's just bad.
@rey09

Possible she doesn't even know their names. If they were in hiding, or if they were ALWAYS in hiding, it's possible they don't even HAVE names.

Rey Skywalker works if Ben is alive (and especially if he is back to just being Ben Solo). And I think he is.

ETA: For the negative naysayers on here, take it from me: there is a way for the leaks to be true (I think they are true) and for them to be missing the scenes that are the glue that hold the actual emotional narrative together. There are missing scenes. There are missing scenes. THERE ARE MISSING SCENES. (Again, for the 1000th time: How does Ben get to Palpatine and Rey at the end? What are Finn and Poe doing, at all, ever? What is Rose doing, EVER? There are scenes missing. There are scenes missing. THERE ARE SCENES MISSING. This is not insignificant. If there is one scene missing, there is more than one scene missing.)

Can we please stop dealing in Sith absolutes? The leaks are scenes that most likely exist. Now use them to speculate on the actual movie that's missing context and resolution.
@nickandnora

Thank you! I'm agnostic about the leaks, yet agnostic indicates I am aware there is an aspect of truth to them, yet as snufkin indicated, bias and hearsey are involved, which must also be considered.

On the aspect of truth, you communicated about it a lot better than I can. Again, thank you! With the leak discussion, I always gravitate to your posts, consider them more, because you keep all of this in mind. Very Happy Smile
@SW_Heroine_Journey

I laughed when I read that they go on Tatooine.
Who told you that? Leia? for what reason?
  and then why?
I love to think that Ben is the one who wants to start a new life in the same place where it all started, with the woman he loves and with his new allies.
ok maybe i'm a little too optimistic but as long as i don't see the movie i'll support that Ben lives.
Then the fact that Rey becomes a Skywalker I will make myself a reason. We need to understand the film and then judge everything. Smile
@Teo oswald

I just cannot see Rey wanting to live on a desert planet. (I reside in the desert, yes...there is a diversity of life, and culture in the desert - it can be beautiful, so I am not dissing deserts. lol) However, for Rey...herself, considering her history, what I know of her character, I just cannot see her being happy on a desert planet, regardless of how her story ends. Which is why I dismiss anything that indicates that, which either shows I have a great understanding of Rey, or I'm stubborn - we shall see. Haha! Very Happy Smile

As for Rey Skywalker, I think of the Titanic scene (Dawson, Rose Dawson), yet there will be a HEA Very Happy Smile

Now, if the desert planets transform due to healing of the GFFA, that's thematically different, yet that to me indicates Ben is there too.
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Post by MaddieDove on Sun 10 Nov - 11:07

@nickandnora wrote:@special_cases

Hard not to make the planned protagonist's arc a priority though, don't you think? I guess it's a separate issue if you don't like how it's playing out in the execution, but I do get a little confused reading some of the critiques because (the way "we" tend to critique others for not understanding the obvious narrative), they sometimes seem to really be unaccepting of the fact that this is a heroine's journey, likely very akin to something like Jane Eyre (for instance), and that kind of needs to be understood first and foremost to accept everything else that follows. Connected to that, though many WANT Kylo to be the protagonist (because he's so interesting), he's really the heroine's foil, the same way Darcy, Rochester, or Mr. Thornton (etc.) are in all those classic heroines tales as well.

Finn and supporting characters become difficult to place because there's no 1:1 in the standard heroine's formula exactly, but it's almost useful to see someone like Finn like, I don't know, Jane Bennett or something, lol. But anyway, I recognize there is some narrative iffyness with Finn, but I think if he was actually a female character this would be resolved somewhat. That's kind of interesting to think about.
@nickandnora

I get that there's a heroine's journey and I absolute expect that it's followed through, however, I prefer to see the story as a romance, as a dance of two arcs being completed but intertwined. For me, this is a kind of a female fantasy where the love interest is changed before him and the female protagonist unite. My understanding is that Kylo has an arc of his own, he and Rey meet at the critical point, both are catalysts for each other, but then they separately go through other developments. And, hopefully, they will meet again, after both are changed.

Darcy's journey was also a character arc, he was not static nor wasted. Rochester was somewhat more mysterious, and his change was brought about by external forces (the fire, his wife's death, loss of limb and sight). That's why I like Wide Sargasso Sea which provided more material regarding Rochester. If only the heroine's journey is prioritized, this is more like the case of Moana. (Well, I shipped Moana and Maui and read some fanfiction, old dirty hag as I am, lol.)

In SW case, knowing that Kylo's character was carefully designed and planned from the start, with all those talks with Adam prior to committing to the trilogy, I believe the case is more of dual protagonists, just as Johnson said. It would be disappointing to leaving him being only a supporting character and a function in a story, more than the protagonist himself, without in any sense wanting to take anything from Rey's journey and the role in the trilogy.
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Post by nickandnora on Sun 10 Nov - 11:29

In SW case, knowing that Kylo's character was carefully designed and planned from the start, with all those talks with Adam prior to committing to the trilogy, I believe the case is more of dual protagonists, just as Johnson said. It would be disappointing to leaving him being only a supporting character and a function in a story, more than the protagonist himself, without in any sense wanting to take anything from Rey's journey and the role in the trilogy.
Oh, well I somewhat agree. But be comforted by the fact that it looks like there's a lot going on with him in terms of screentime and screentime WITH REY in the leaks, it's just likely that any motivation and sense of context for him is completely wrong (not to mention I suspect there are absent scenes for him at the end). I think there's a good arc in there that someone has completely misinterpreted. I just think it's also important to recognize what his function might have been at the outset of the story in relation to the other heroine journeys that we know of so people aren't clouding up their expectations thinking he's something he's never been, if that makes sense.

ETA: It goes without saying that none of this is an exact science either, but there still is somewhat of a formula I would think.

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Post by special_cases on Sun 10 Nov - 12:13

@nickandnora I get what you're saying but my point was about JJ's approach to priorities.

And the most critical thing: ST doesn't have a simple structure like Jane Eyre. Star Wars is a multigenerational saga about battle between light and dark through one family, Skywalkers. If JJ wants Rey to be Palpatine, then it will become a multigenerational saga about light/dark battle between a Skywalker and a Palpatine. But one way or another, Saga is a story where a protagonist isn't obligated to be a main character. Luke was a protagonist in OT, Luke was pushing story's goal but the story was about Vader. ST is somewhat similar, even with more complicated structure, and the catch here is that we still don't know for sure what is the story's goal here. Because we have still Skywalkers' story going on and Rey's arc isn't Skywalkers' story, right? So it makes sense to question how tastefully they will tie all these complicated threads together and it's a big big question if the resolution of Rey's arc is an answer to resolution of Skywalkers' story...

In "Anna Karenina" Anna is protagonist while Levin is the main character. That's why the story continues after Anya's death but the story called "Anna Karenina", Anya has more scenes and focus than Levin but it's still Kostya's journey and he is getting a story goal in the end; while Anna was pushing the story's goal but became a tragic figure. A reader gets an impression that the resolution of Anna's story will be a story's goal and Kostya and Kitty romance feels like sideline storyline. It's an example of structure, not about substance; and example how story's goal can be misjudged or hidden until the climax. TLJ's narrative was unique because it really dived into complicated characters' roles in the story and didn't run away from complicated structure like TFA did. It has technically five acts and don't afraid to treat Rey as protagonist while Kylo and Luke as main characters. I heard a lot of criticism about "plotlines" or "Kylo is stealing Rey's spot"  in TLJ but what people really criticise is unusual for this format characters' roles and "bloated" narrative as a result. While Lucas himself complicated a story and gave Vader a fragmental Hero's Journey in OT and then made him a main character.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 10 Nov - 13:00

Hello friends. It's been a while! I've been following this stuff from a distance. Just want to add my two cents that I firmly believe there's significantly more narrative evidence that the twist is Ben lives than there is evidence that "never to be seen again" is the final say - in fact, there is no evidence that it's the final say. Simply put, I buy "never to be seen again" as much as I buy the source's genius interpretation that Palpatine's ultimate plan is to... give his granddaughter his empire and the galaxy. No, the irony that the source is clearly falling for Palpatine's ruse in multiple places is not lost on me. In fact, I kinda love it. And in this franchise and when the villain of this very film survived a similar fall 30 years later, hehe.

I do not wish to disrespect anybody's right to be concerned or manage expectations, but while I certainly believe there is a lot of truth to the leaks, I can also see that they're being directed through a biased filter from someone who has a lot but not all of the information. We are lacking the payoff and closure for almost every character arc and act 3 is holier than Swiss cheese.

P.S. Palpatine being right that "your coming together will be your undoing" is the most amusing thing to me. I know there's a lot of stress and whatnot going around, but sometimes you just have to laugh at the more outlandish suggestions.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 10 Nov - 13:26

@nickandnora wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Someone said a good point about how in the leaks, her parents died to protect her or something like that and then for her to take the skywalker name is a slap in the face for them. But even if her parents didn't matter, it still will never make sense, literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bad things can't flow, it's just bad.
@rey09

Possible she doesn't even know their names. If they were in hiding, or if they were ALWAYS in hiding, it's possible they don't even HAVE names.

Rey Skywalker works if Ben is alive (and especially if he is back to just being Ben Solo). And I think he is.

ETA: For the negative naysayers on here, take it from me: there is a way for the leaks to be true (I think they are true) and for them to be missing the scenes that are the glue that hold the actual emotional narrative together. There are missing scenes. There are missing scenes. THERE ARE MISSING SCENES. (Again, for the 1000th time: How does Ben get to Palpatine and Rey at the end? What are Finn and Poe doing, at all, ever? What is Rose doing, EVER? There are scenes missing. There are scenes missing. THERE ARE SCENES MISSING. This is not insignificant. If there is one scene missing, there is more than one scene missing.)

Can we please stop dealing in Sith absolutes? The leaks are scenes that most likely exist. Now use them to speculate on the actual movie that's missing context and resolution.

@nickandnora
I'll also echo that chant.

THERE ARE MISSING SCENES.

THERE ARE MISSING SCENES.

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Post by Saracene on Sun 10 Nov - 13:36

Even if Ben lives, I’m going to find Rey Skywalker hard to swallow and it will sour the movie for me big time, because above everything else I hate it when the story feels forced and contrived. Apart from the transparent commercial calculation of keeping a lucrative name alive, it smacks of a clumsy last-ditch effort to justify Rey’s central role in what they’ve now decided is the conclusion of the Skywalker saga. “Look, Rey is a Skywalker after all, she says so, so it must be true!” Unfortunately, as others pointed out, it sounds 100% like something JJ would do, because rushing to an outcome without any real effort to earn it or build up to it is one of his major failings as a storyteller.

Honestly, in retrospect I might be wishing that the whole story was different and they just made Rey Luke’s or Leia and Han’s daughter to start with (while Kylo was an unrelated dark sider and the whole thing was basically like the Lion King sequel lol). Then at least the movies wouldn’t have to reconcile trying to continue a family saga and telling the story of an unrelated protagonist.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 10 Nov - 13:45

@Saracene wrote:Even if Ben lives, I’m going to find Rey Skywalker hard to swallow and it will sour the movie for me big time, because above everything else I hate it when the story feels forced and contrived. Apart from the transparent commercial calculation of keeping a lucrative name alive, it smacks of a clumsy last-ditch effort to justify Rey’s central role in what they’ve now decided is the conclusion of the Skywalker saga. “Look, Rey is a Skywalker after all, she says so, so it must be true!” Unfortunately, as others pointed out, it sounds 100% like something JJ would do, because rushing to an outcome without any real effort to earn it or build up to it is one of his major failings as a storyteller.

Honestly, in retrospect I might be wishing that the whole story was different and they just made Rey Luke’s or Leia and Han’s daughter to start with (while Kylo was an unrelated dark sider and the whole thing was basically like the Lion King sequel lol). Then at least the movies wouldn’t have to reconcile trying to continue a family saga and telling the story of an unrelated protagonist.
@Saracene
I'll get flack for it but I have no problem with Rey as the spiritual successor of the Jedi/Skywalkers... IF Ben lives. In fact, I would go as far as to say I like it under the right circumstances. I think at the end of all things Rey and Ben have been on contrasting and opposite journeys. Ben has to let go of his obsession with legacy and inheritance that crippled him and destroyed his life; Rey has to find a place in "all this", and it's one she chooses. Ben concluding as only himself, as Ben Solo, and Rey taking on the legacy and freeing him from his burden is a great conclusion to me, but without the missing scenes - the glue, if you will - it's not coming across the way I feel it will in the film.

The memorial with the lightsabers is burying the past while taking a piece of it into the future in the kyber crystals. It's all about honouring the mentors. As for Ben, I don't think he will have a lightsaber. I don't think he'll want one. I've always been fond of Ben concluding the story as a peaceful nomad, and I do feel that's exactly where this is all going. He'll be in contact with Rey forever through the Force Bond and there's a beautiful story to be told about how he atones and experiencing life as a free soul, and it will be. This has always been Ben's archetype in my honest opinion.
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Post by nickandnora on Sun 10 Nov - 13:54

@Saracene wrote:Even if Ben lives, I’m going to find Rey Skywalker hard to swallow and it will sour the movie for me big time, because above everything else I hate it when the story feels forced and contrived. Apart from the transparent commercial calculation of keeping a lucrative name alive, it smacks of a clumsy last-ditch effort to justify Rey’s central role in what they’ve now decided is the conclusion of the Skywalker saga. “Look, Rey is a Skywalker after all, she says so, so it must be true!” Unfortunately, as others pointed out, it sounds 100% like something JJ would do, because rushing to an outcome without any real effort to earn it or build up to it is one of his major failings as a storyteller.

Honestly, in retrospect I might be wishing that the whole story was different and they just made Rey Luke’s or Leia and Han’s daughter to start with (while Kylo was an unrelated dark sider and the whole thing was basically like the Lion King sequel lol). Then at least the movies wouldn’t have to reconcile trying to continue a family saga and telling the story of an unrelated protagonist.
@Saracene

This isn't a response directly to your post, more of a continued response to the idea of "Rey Skywalker."

I can't remember exactly when it occurred to me, but I do think some people (not just here) *might* be missing something about authorial intent, especially if George Lucas was at all involved in this from the start:

George Lucas has three adopted children.

I can't say for SURE that any of the themes, messages, and character arcs of the ST have anything to do with this fact... but, I mean, think about it, think about the story so far, think about what the leaks are saying, and then decide if there isn't a deeply personal (and rather touching) message perhaps being portrayed in this story here connected to that.

Just some food for thought.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 10 Nov - 14:05

@nickandnora wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Even if Ben lives, I’m going to find Rey Skywalker hard to swallow and it will sour the movie for me big time, because above everything else I hate it when the story feels forced and contrived. Apart from the transparent commercial calculation of keeping a lucrative name alive, it smacks of a clumsy last-ditch effort to justify Rey’s central role in what they’ve now decided is the conclusion of the Skywalker saga. “Look, Rey is a Skywalker after all, she says so, so it must be true!” Unfortunately, as others pointed out, it sounds 100% like something JJ would do, because rushing to an outcome without any real effort to earn it or build up to it is one of his major failings as a storyteller.

Honestly, in retrospect I might be wishing that the whole story was different and they just made Rey Luke’s or Leia and Han’s daughter to start with (while Kylo was an unrelated dark sider and the whole thing was basically like the Lion King sequel lol). Then at least the movies wouldn’t have to reconcile trying to continue a family saga and telling the story of an unrelated protagonist.
@Saracene

This isn't a response directly to your post, more of a continued response to the idea of "Rey Skywalker."

I can't remember exactly when it occurred to me, but I do think some people (not just here) *might* be missing something about authorial intent, especially if George Lucas was at all involved in this from the start.

George Lucas has three adopted children.

I can't say for SURE that any of the themes, messages, and character arcs of the ST have anything to do with this fact... but, I mean, think about it, think about the story so far, think about what the leaks are saying, and then decide if there isn't a deeply personal (and rather touching) message perhaps being portrayed in this story here connected to that.

Just some food for thought.
@nickandnora
We do know he was at least contacted for input on the ending just like Rian.

Yeah, I totally think this is part of it. I've thought it was possible Rey would take Skywalker for a long, long time. There are old posts on this very forum where I've gone into detail about why I considered it a potential outcome.

On the Reylo front Rey and Ben are switching places in a sweet and satisfying way. Each has always had what the other needs. Ben was born into love and prestige but it left him broken, Rey was born into nothing (which remains true regardless of any potential link to Palpatine for dramatic contrast in the finale). They're doing a 180 from where they started, and I really love it, personally.

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