Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by ZioRen on Thu 28 Nov - 21:35

Even if the idea is that Ben isn't dead and will reappear one day, that's the kind of thing you show at the end as a cincher to get the audience excited. The radio silence is just...? Especially in a series where nobody has died just from falling down a pit. Han, who's a normie, doesn't count.

The only thing I can think is that it would echo Han's death, but that still feels weird when we're talking about a Force user as powerful as Kylo. If they think they can get away with that after Maul and Palps, I don't know who they're kidding. And if the idea is that they're keeping their options open, that's still a terribly anticlimactic way to end the "end of the Skywalker saga" movie.

Also, no matter what way you slice it, all the Skywalkers appearing to Rey while the actual Skywalker gets kicked down a pit feels...really odd. Sorry, but that's not Rey's family.  She didn't grow up crushed under the weight of its legacy for it to matter so much when it bolsters her for once. At the end of the SKYWALKER SAGA. It falls flat.


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Post by MaddieDove on Thu 28 Nov - 21:38

@AcrosstheStars
@Kylo Rey

You are both so, so right!
I'm getting physically sick just by reading about Kylo dying senselessly, can't imagine how I'd feel if I'm actually to witness all of this in cinema. Satisfying ending? Hope? I feel disturbed just by seeing Rey burning his ship. I'm tired of aggression, of all the fighting, of the wars part in star wars, of the marketing so heavily relying on lightsabers and them clashing. It's weapons and they hurt and kill, for Christ sake!
I don't need more footage focused on fighting. I don't need bitter-sweet ending. I don't need the idea that balance of the Force and peace in the galaxy need the sacrifice of Han's and Leia's son who f**** up, turns to the light, and loses his life. Just no. Sad
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Post by Atenais on Thu 28 Nov - 21:43

@AcrosstheStars wrote:(...) IMO Anakin is the one who visually needed to be in this the most (Luke and Leia aside) because of Kylo/Ben. Him lacking a connection to Rey is a fair and true point, absolutely. But you have his grandson talking to his helmet and thinking he’s communicated with him in TFA, the big scene with the helmet and pillar getting destroyed in TROS, and then Anakin only shows up as a voice after his lone grandchild is supposedly murdered by the man who ruined his life? That will make me livid as a huge fan of Anakin and Kylo/Ben. He is so critical to the Kylo story, and for him to show up for Rey audibly but never bother to help his grandson would be a horrible ending in my book. You can’t introduce that talking to “Vader” angle as critical to Kylo, then never have Anakin show up for a talk with his grandson or for anything with his grandson. But JJ has made it clear in the past that he has major disdain for how the PT handled Anakin (he felt it demystified Vader too much, and that it was tragic people related to Anakin and not Luke), so I have tried to prepare myself for this possibility. I will still be really upset though. No (...)
@AcrosstheStars

I couldn't agree more. It's inadmissible that we don't have a real closure to the Skywalker family.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rey's character very much, I like the actress, I think she is amazing in the movie, etc, etc. But we're talking about Skywalker saga. If this is the real end of Kylo, I will start to wish that Rey was really son of Luke, because it's horrible to think that the last Skywalker will die, without closure, really abandoned by all his family, and then, the descendant of their greatest enemy would take their surname. What a joke!

Even if I didn't care about Kylo, in my cards it would be inadmissible to let him die this way, and to let this family just disappear like that, like they were nothing.

@Kylo Rey wrote:I’m just really tired of bittersweet and depressing endings. Enough already. It doesn’t endear the audience and just pisses them off. If all this true, that title is gonna go down as one of the dumbest titles in movie history. We have to watch Anakin Skywalker’s bloodline murdered one by one, the last Skywalker unceremoniously dies?? while the protagonist is asleep and falls down a pit in a movie titled the RISE of Skywalker, Vader’s redemption in ROTJ, one of the best movie moments ever, is rendered useless. Palpatine succeeds in getting his revenge against the Skywalkers after he DIED (no, his descendant taking on the name is not an acceptable substitute). Might as well rename it the Palpatine saga.

And what about “I will finish what you started”?? a line JJ wrote himself? Ben Solo takes no part in helping take down the monster who tormented his family for generations. Oh, and Luke and Leia are fine with helping a random girl but failing to show up for their son/nephew, who has been newly redeemed. And then they smile at her at the end, no mention or sign they care about their son who is rotting somewhere in a pit. Wow.

It’s astonishing and actually comical how tone deaf this all is. It’s like they put in all this effort for Kylo, got bloody Harrison Ford to come back for his fictional son for god’s sake, and then it’s like they just completely gave up at the end.
@Kylo Rey

Yes and yes!

As a woman myself I find amazing the fact that we have an heroin in the new trilogy. But as a fan, I find awful that the last Skywalker will have no hand in taking down the villain that destroyed his entire family.

I believe we still don't have the whole scenery of the movie, so I'll keep hoping that the leaks are incomplete.


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Post by special_cases on Thu 28 Nov - 21:48

@nickandnora 😂😂😂 This is hilarious that Palpy will take their power away and then decide to "choose" apprentice. This is the proof that sources are seeing or hearing something but they really can't understand it.

I think MSW got some new info and perhaps is sitting on it, waiting to publish new stuff every week before release. You know, clicks, clicks, clicks! He is also waiting for more people to see bits and pieces or the final cut but he needs to return attention to himself early because everybody already forgot about him after JP dropped his masterpiece.

I want to remind one more time. MSW said that they SAW Luke's death scene and reported bizarre entangled reading on this that was useless without context. More like, their source knew someone who saw it, sent them screenshots and tiny clips, and this telephone game turned to be absolutely pointless because all of them were unable to understand the meaning of the scene.
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Post by Gemini on Thu 28 Nov - 22:03

Anyone notice how "leaks" keep dropping every time a new trailer drops and the trailer always matches?

JJ has only just completed the true final cut of the film 2 days ago. Smart man

Daisy said the answer is unexpected. Palpatine is probably something people would suspect based off the original teaser trailer onwards.


"This is what JJ did with cloverfield:
According to film theorist Dan North, “Traditional publicity campaigns rely on the carefully timed release of authoritative information from a central source to a mass audience. Viral campaigns, in contrast, depend on relinquishing control: releasing key pieces of information in carefully chosen places, in the hope and expectation that it will spread organically through the target audience, as a virus spreads from person to person.” The “release of authoritative information” could still describe most marketing campaigns: studios carefully time the release of a series of teasers and trailers, each revealing more information than the last, in order to drum up the desired interest from audiences."

I think hes dropping false/partially true leaks, yet the trailers are carefully revealing more and more things that dont match certain parts of those leaks.

The marketing is not suggesting rey palpatine/kylo dead at all.


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Post by reylo1992 on Thu 28 Nov - 22:06

@Atenais wrote:
@AcrosstheStars wrote:(...) IMO Anakin is the one who visually needed to be in this the most (Luke and Leia aside) because of Kylo/Ben. Him lacking a connection to Rey is a fair and true point, absolutely. But you have his grandson talking to his helmet and thinking he’s communicated with him in TFA, the big scene with the helmet and pillar getting destroyed in TROS, and then Anakin only shows up as a voice after his lone grandchild is supposedly murdered by the man who ruined his life? That will make me livid as a huge fan of Anakin and Kylo/Ben. He is so critical to the Kylo story, and for him to show up for Rey audibly but never bother to help his grandson would be a horrible ending in my book. You can’t introduce that talking to “Vader” angle as critical to Kylo, then never have Anakin show up for a talk with his grandson or for anything with his grandson. But JJ has made it clear in the past that he has major disdain for how the PT handled Anakin (he felt it demystified Vader too much, and that it was tragic people related to Anakin and not Luke), so I have tried to prepare myself for this possibility. I will still be really upset though. No (...)
@AcrosstheStars

I couldn't agree more. It's inadmissible that we don't have a real closure to the Skywalker family.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rey's character very much, I like the actress, I think she is amazing in the movie, etc, etc. But we're talking about Skywalker saga. If this is the real end of Kylo, I will start to wish that Rey was really son of Luke, because it's horrible to think that the last Skywalker will die, without closure, really abandoned by all his family, and then, the descendant of their greatest enemy would take their surname. What a joke!

Even if I didn't care about Kylo, in my cards it would be inadmissible to let him die this way, and to let this family just disappear like that, like they were nothing.

@Kylo Rey wrote:I’m just really tired of bittersweet and depressing endings. Enough already. It doesn’t endear the audience and just pisses them off. If all this true, that title is gonna go down as one of the dumbest titles in movie history. We have to watch Anakin Skywalker’s bloodline murdered one by one, the last Skywalker unceremoniously dies?? while the protagonist is asleep and falls down a pit in a movie titled the RISE of Skywalker, Vader’s redemption in ROTJ, one of the best movie moments ever, is rendered useless. Palpatine succeeds in getting his revenge against the Skywalkers after he DIED (no, his descendant taking on the name is not an acceptable substitute). Might as well rename it the Palpatine saga.

And what about “I will finish what you started”?? a line JJ wrote himself? Ben Solo takes no part in helping take down the monster who tormented his family for generations. Oh, and Luke and Leia are fine with helping a random girl but failing to show up for their son/nephew, who has been newly redeemed. And then they smile at her at the end, no mention or sign they care about their son who is rotting somewhere in a pit. Wow.

It’s astonishing and actually comical how tone deaf this all is. It’s like they put in all this effort for Kylo, got bloody Harrison Ford to come back for his fictional son for god’s sake, and then it’s like they just completely gave up at the end.
@Kylo Rey

Yes and yes!

As a woman myself I find amazing the fact that we have an heroin in the new trilogy. But as fan, I find awful that the last Skywalker will have no hand in taking down the villain that destroyed his entire family.

I believe we still don't have the whole scenery of the movie, so I'll keep hoping that the leaks are incomplete.
@Atenais

Yeah. I agree with @KyloRey that the most problematic point in that scenario is that Ben is supposed to be the one who kick the a** of the Big Bad who made his life and his family's a tragedy for decades. Otherwise, it's like Dimitri would have killed Rasputine although Anastasia was the one who lost her family because of him. Unless the unexpected answer about Rey's power has nothing to do with lineage but with Ben himself and that in one way or another he takes part in beating the Big Bad through her.
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 28 Nov - 22:12

Well if Rey is a Palpatine, or at least if Palpatine was responsible for murdering her parents, then he would be her Big Bad too. And let's be real, it was very much necessary for her fight with Palps to be personal. Otherwise, it'd fall EXTREMELY flat. That doesn't bother me; the idea of all the Skywalkers appearing to her while Kylo gets shunted does. It adds to why I don't and will probably never like "Rey, Rey Skywalker," which I've talked about here a buncha times.

In case anyone takes this the wrong way: I'm just saying why this leaked storyline doesn't feel like it holds water. Not that I've given up and am being cynical or whatever.

As for the pit ending, I could be okay with this person's idea on Reddit: "I'd take like we can faintly hear the FB sound effect kick in on tatooine, like that's subtle enough for people to notice it and also for it to confirm he's still alive."

I mean, it'd still be pretty lame imo but I can imagine that noise popping in and Rey breaking out into a smile and the movie ending on that note.


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Post by Gemini on Thu 28 Nov - 22:17

@ZioRen wrote:Well if Rey is a Palpatine, or at least if Palpatine was responsible for murdering her parents, then he would be her Big Bad too. And let's be real, it was very much necessary for her fight with Palps to be personal. Otherwise, it'd fall EXTREMELY flat. That doesn't bother me; the idea of all the Skywalkers appearing to her while Kylo gets shunted does.

In case anyone takes this the wrong way: I'm just saying why this leaked storyline doesn't feel like it holds water. Not that I've given up and am being cynical or whatever.
@ZioRen

It has never felt right to me. It's not matching the themes set up since TFA. KK said (cant remember exact words) the 1st act/movie is set up. 2nd act movie is where the worst Sith happens..act 3 is the climax/payoff etc

Anyhow. I'm still prepared for Rey palpatine. After all Rey Random was also true according to leaks..so.

Not sure.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 28 Nov - 22:27

@Gemini

I will trade Rey Trash Nobody Palpatine Skywalker for one Rey Kenobi...

Occam's razor

Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor or Ocham's razor: Latin: novacula Occami; or law of parsimony: Latin: lex parsimoniae) is the problem-solving principle that states "Entities should not be multiplied without necessity



I think I figured something out.. Rey on Achto in front of Kylo's crashed Tie... I bet this is after she jumps it and slices it in the desert... and the scene then changes..

That is my guess...Crack????? Maybe....
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Post by Gemini on Thu 28 Nov - 22:39

Kylo wont stay down the pit. Pit in SW basically means I'm not dead, I'll be back. Hold my blue milk.

"Nevah 2 be seen" means you dont see him "die"...characters can always come back if you dint see them die. Trope.
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Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 28 Nov - 22:50

Either show him dead or show him alive ffs. None of this wishy washy crap. It’s the ending of a nine part saga. You’re telling me the guy who could stop blaster bolts in his first appearance gets taken out with a force push????

Literally the only reason I can think of for leaving his fate so vague and ambiguous is to create a sequel hook.
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Post by reylo1992 on Thu 28 Nov - 22:52

From another thread about the reason why I believe this is happening in the ending of the movie:  
@reylo1992 wrote:Frankly people the more we're getting closer to the release date, the more my guts tell me that the Truth behind Reylo is actually that Ben and Rey are meant to become one single person in the end. Don't ask me why and how exactly it could happen but I feel like this scene has no place in that story other than in the very ending because why would Rey go back to Ach-To just to burn the Whisperer and then fly away to confront Palpatine or anywhere (with which ship by the way?). I would expect Kylo to burn his own ship and let the past die, yet Rey is doing it although Kylo definity goes to Palpatine flying this ship. To me, that look in her eyes screams "Let the past die". So IMO Rey will fly away with Kylo's ship after defeating Palpatine while everybody believes her to be dead.  Is Rey actually Ben in the end of the movie because she and Kylo were two sides of the same person from the beginning, does Ben lives within her in some way, is Ben dead for good inside of the Whisperer or does she think he is dead but he will join her on Ach-To in the very end, that's the opened question in my mind now. I don't think Ben would be able to have a peaceful life unless he lives in a retreated place where nobody can find him. I guess there is a reason why Rey would return on that island where Luke couldn't be found for years. I'm prepared for bittersweet ending anyway.

Rey's costume and face expression contrast so strongly with this moment, she looks kinda dead inside :
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 4 Ekfrlz11
More important, Rey really looks like a nun letting go of her past life to take the orders. Looks like she is preparing for an hermit life on Achch-To by the side of the Caretakers:
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 4 Ekej6f10
But we know that the Caretakers also wait for their males to come back to them so who knows maybe Ben will show up during the monthly celebration. That would be the perfect reverse for Anidala sunny
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Post by Saracene on Thu 28 Nov - 23:01

Provided that there's more to Ben's ending, I'm fine with the force ghosts appearing to Rey if it's more about Rey receiving help from the previous generations of the Jedi, rather than family as such. I don't think it's a slight against Ben; even if he survives I sincerely doubt that his path in life will have to do with the Jedi.
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Post by AcrosstheStars on Thu 28 Nov - 23:05

@reylo1992 wrote:From another thread about the reason why I believe this is happening in the ending of the movie:  
@reylo1992 wrote:Frankly people the more we're getting closer to the release date, the more my guts tell me that the Truth behind Reylo is actually that Ben and Rey are meant to become one single person in the end. Don't ask me why and how exactly it could happen but I feel like this scene has no place in that story other than in the very ending because why would Rey go back to Ach-To just to burn the Whisperer and then fly away to confront Palpatine or anywhere (with which ship by the way?). I would expect Kylo to burn his own ship and let the past die, yet Rey is doing it although Kylo definity goes to Palpatine flying this ship. To me, that look in her eyes screams "Let the past die". So IMO Rey will fly away with Kylo's ship after defeating Palpatine while everybody believes her to be dead.  Is Rey actually Ben in the end of the movie because she and Kylo were two sides of the same person from the beginning, does Ben lives within her in some way, is Ben dead for good inside of the Whisperer or does she think he is dead but he will join her on Ach-To in the very end, that's the opened question in my mind now. I don't think Ben would be able to have a peaceful life unless he lives in a retreated place where nobody can find him. I guess there is a reason why Rey would return on that island where Luke couldn't be found for years. I'm prepared for bittersweet ending anyway.

Rey's costume and face expression contrast so strongly with this moment, she looks kinda dead inside :
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 4 Ekfrlz11
More important, Rey really looks like a nun letting go of her past life to take the orders. Looks like she is preparing for an hermit life on Achch-To by the side of the Caretakers:
Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 4 Ekej6f10
But we know that the Caretakers also wait for their males to come back to them so who knows maybe Ben will show up during the monthly celebration. That would be the perfect reverse for Anidala sunny
@reylo1992

That’s a very creative way to end it for sure! Too creepy for me though.

If you believe the leaks have the gist of the plot save for the end (I do), the scene of Kylo walking on Exogol in the trailer is from the beginning of the film when he first finds and threatens Palpatine. Then Rey steals his ship after the DSII fight and crashes it at Ach-To so she can’t leave and hurt anyone/turn dark. Luke raises his old X-Wing to get her to Exogol. The leaks still don’t explain how Ben gets to Exogol for the finale. JP said he was finally told it’s via an Imperial Tie he finds on Exogol, but even he doubts that because those ships don’t have hyperdrive.

How he gets off Exogol is IMO the most important info we need, because of the possibility of it being a Force Bond (thus, he survives the “fall”).
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Post by special_cases on Thu 28 Nov - 23:08

I don't think it will make sense to Rey end as a nun but it's a nice plot bit closer to the end if she is running away after she tried to kill the man she loves and discovered how fear can corrupt a person and push her to the Dark Side. @snufkin comparison to Black Narcissus was spot on, just from this short visionary in TV spots you can feel the similar vibe.

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Post by ZioRen on Thu 28 Nov - 23:11

I also really like that severely hurting Kylo is what Rey considers her lowest point. I mean, it all still sounds rather intense but it's great romantic drama!
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Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 28 Nov - 23:12

TROS Kylo is unbelievably hot. He’s got me feeling some type of way. And that calmness and confidence radiating from him in all the promo, phew. At least he’ll look pretty before he goes tumbling down that pit Laughing
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 28 Nov - 23:13

@Kylo Rey wrote:TROS Kylo is unbelievably hot. He’s got me feeling some type of way. And that calmness and confidence radiating from him in all the promo, phew. At least he’ll look pretty before he goes tumbling down that pit Laughing
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I can't wait until we have 1000 blurry gifs and then eventually, finally, 1000 HD gifs!
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Post by Atenais on Thu 28 Nov - 23:18

@Kylo Rey wrote:TROS Kylo is unbelievably hot. He’s got me feeling some type of way. And that calmness and confidence radiating from him in all the promo, phew. At least he’ll look pretty before he goes tumbling down that pit Laughing
@Kylo Rey

THIS. lol!
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Post by nana7marie on Thu 28 Nov - 23:27

@Kylo Rey wrote:TROS Kylo is unbelievably hot. He’s got me feeling some type of way. And that calmness and confidence radiating from him in all the promo, phew. At least he’ll look pretty before he goes tumbling down that pit Laughing
@Kylo Rey

Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Post by AcrosstheStars on Thu 28 Nov - 23:33

That JJ quote I was thinking of has really been nagging at me, so I started rereading everything to find it. It was in the Uproxx article posted Monday.

Q: By the end of this movie will we have a better sense of who Snoke was? Or is that another story for another time?

A: I will say, without giving anything away, knowing this movie is an ending is, for me infinitely more challenging than a beginning. We knew we needed to provide answers. And while there may be some things that aren’t entirely demystified by the end of it, we wanted to make sure people left feeling that they were satisfied. So I hope, on a number of issues, people will leave and feel like that it’s a true ending and not an advertising ploy. We really are bringing it to an end.

https://uproxx.com/movies/jj-abrams-interview-the-rise-of-skywalker-star-wars/

I know sometimes in the past he has lied, and Disney in general has people lie (Ewan confirmed he had to lie for four years about his project), but this definitely doesn’t jive with no definite ending for Ben. Open ending is the definition of an advertising ploy in case they do a 4th trilogy later or standalone Ben movie.
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Post by Atenais on Thu 28 Nov - 23:35

I will try to make a video with all the scenes of Kylo and Rey we have till now. Could you help me with the timeline?

1. Kylo in the red forest;
2. Kylo walking on Exogol;
3. The teapot scene is when he finds Palps?
4. TIE and Rey running in the desert;
5. Kylo's room with Vader helmet;
6. Rey in the village;
7. Throne room;
8. DSII duel;
9. Dark Rey;
10. Rey steals his ship;
11. Ship crashes at Ach-To;
12. Rey at Palps throne;
13. Kylo shows;
14. Rey in blue smiles.

It seems right?
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Post by special_cases on Thu 28 Nov - 23:54

I wonder how Rey is setting up that ship on fire. Via lighting like Yoda did in TLJ? Hm, that was a tree so lighting worked but this is a ship...

Omg, Yoda's lighting. Rey is doing lighting in this movie. Daisy said that Yoda is her favourite character. Baby Yoda in Mandalorian that is prequel to ST. Omg, I cracked it, forget old Palpy,. "Cool and surprising". Rey is from Yoda species! Someone obviously changed her look to hide her among human species. I'm kidding, of course, sorry for sithposting.


Last edited by special_cases on Fri 29 Nov - 0:38; edited 1 time in total
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Post by AcrosstheStars on Thu 28 Nov - 23:57

@Atenais wrote:I will try to make a video with all the scenes of Kylo and Rey we have till now. Could you help me with the timeline?

1. Kylo in the red forest;
2. Kylo walking on Exogol;
3. The teapot scene is when he finds Palps?
4. TIE and Rey running in the desert;
5. Kylo's room with Vader helmet;
6. Rey in the village;
7. Throne room;
8. DSII duel;
9. Dark Rey;
10. Rey steals his ship;
11. Ship crashes at Ach-To;
12. Rey at Palps throne;
13. Kylo shows;
14. Rey in blue smiles.

It seems right?
@Atenais

I think so. 5 and 6 may be switched, and ditto for 8 and 9. I don’t think we can say for sure at this point of the order of those, but they’re definitely occurring within the same timeframe that we have.
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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 4 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by OrionStars on Fri 29 Nov - 0:03

@special_cases wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:@rey09  yeah, the leaker had the information of the incoming merchandise of Frozen 2 so he leaked everything, the storybook was even posted on the internet, but miraculously, even though he leaked the ending, he left out the most important part of what really happened to Elsa and Elsa/Anna's relationship at the end of Frozen 2. Now I don't know whether the leaker intentionally did it or he didn't know or Disney didn't include the most important part of the ending in Frozen 2 merchandise.

Coincidentally, at the same time when the plot of Frozen 2 was leaked and caused chaos among the fandom of Frozen, our Temiriblagg1 made an apology thread, in which he said that the merchandise was leaked by ...Disney themselves  on purpose to test the fans' reaction. Maybe it could explain something.
@OrionStars

I don't how much we can trust anything Temiriblagg1 says after everything he did. He obviously aligned himself with ReySky gang to make impression that ReySky is happening. Also ReySkys are sitting on some leaked additional material (visual books and novels) and purposefully don't share it. I'm 100% sure that they will get some Visual Dictionary first and there will be something like "Rey Skywalker" and they will frame it like there is big reveal from Luke.

About new info from MSW: Yeah, Yeah, of course, Ben dies when Rey is taking a nap. She then defeats Palpy, looks around - no Ben Solo in sight. "Welp, what can I do", she will think. "Time to celebrate I guess"
@special_cases

I agree. With everything Temiriblagg1 had done, he is unreliable. But thankfully, Frozen 2 was released before TROS, so if we look back, we will have a clear picture that Frozen fandom had to go through hell because they didn't have a single tiny plot detail that could change everything. And the Frozen 2 leaker was like "yeah Elsa is [censored], the Arendelle sisters are [censored] forevahh, that's the ending, s*ck it, boooo". It sounds similar to our case, doesn't it? But the Frozen fandom already got their happy ending after 1 month of suffering. I don't know if we can have our happy ending just like them but we can hope. sunny


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