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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 10:51 pm

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:It's what will happen in the future that intrigues me.
I went to see this film purely for Kylo. But if they make any more SW films, Kylo of course won't be in them. Will the Golden Trio or Rey alone draw in audiences?

I wonder.

@motherofpearl1

If there were trio movie plans, the weak box office killed the plans. The next best place would be Disney+, yet we know the actors (2 of the three, maybe all of them?) indicated it was beneath them (sigh/rolls eyes), so all of it may have been cancelled (or indefinitely postponed) - which may be an explanation for what happened (the topic of our recent discussion).
Adam apparently ruled out returning as Kylo Ren in another film, but what he actually said was he ruled out of returning in a prequel, which I agree with - I want the character alive, not some tiresome flashback.
Which makes me wonder if he was disappointed in the ending as well?😁
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 11:15 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:It's what will happen in the future that intrigues me.
I went to see this film purely for Kylo. But if they make any more SW films, Kylo of course won't be in them. Will the Golden Trio or Rey alone draw in audiences?

I wonder.

@motherofpearl1

If there were trio movie plans, the weak box office killed the plans. The next best place would be Disney+, yet we know the actors (2 of the three, maybe all of them?) indicated it was beneath them (sigh/rolls eyes), so all of it may have been cancelled (or indefinitely postponed) - which may be an explanation for what happened (the topic of our recent discussion).
Adam apparently ruled out returning as Kylo Ren in another film, but what he actually said was he ruled out of returning in a prequel, which I agree with - I want the character alive, not some tiresome flashback.
Which makes me wonder if he was disappointed in the ending as well?😁
@motherofpearl1

The recent drama Wink I was referring to was J.B. I think one of the reason he felt mean is because of the box office being below expectations. He was quite certain it would soar past TLJ, which is why he felt emboldened to roll his eyes at Disney+. Now...he knows he shot himself in the foot. That's for the trio.

Yes! Audiences want Ben. I do feel Adam will return for the correct director and script. He cares about the character Ben Solo, but a return will need to be a perfect storm, and although rare - they do happen! Very Happy Smile
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 2:48 am

The good thing is, he likes playing Kylo.
Hugh Jackman also liked playing Wolverine, because the role made his career. He starred in four X Men films, had cameos in two more, and also appeared in three solo films, the last of which received a great deall of critical acclaim. When the actor actually likes the character its a great help.

Ironically, he's the only ST character I'm interested in seeing again - I like Daisy but unfortunately TROS has damaged her character terribly for me, purely because she was turned into an ideal rather than a person.
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Post by thescavenger on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 3:19 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:The good thing is, he likes playing Kylo.
Hugh Jackman also liked playing Wolverine, because the role made his career. He starred in four X Men films, had cameos in two more, and also appeared in three solo films, the last of which received a great deall of critical acclaim. When the actor actually likes the character its a great help.

Ironically, he's the only ST character I'm interested in seeing again - I like Daisy but unfortunately TROS has damaged her character terribly for me, purely because she was turned into an ideal rather than a person.
@motherofpearl1

Oh, absolutely. I can see Adam coming back for a 'Logan' kind of film for his character ('Ben'?), one that strips down to character exploration rather than a traditional SW film. I'd give it a few years time, mid- to long-term future. There's so much more to be mined from Ben's story. On the other hand, I can only see Rey as a secondary character, if it is to happen. Actually, the more I think about it, the more intrigued I am.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 4:16 am

And there's the rub.

The problem is, they've failed to sell Rey as a solo character. And it's not because she's a woman.
Look at Ellen Ripley in the Aliens franchise. Sigourney Weaver went from sole survivor to the star of the franchise. And it was because she's not only a fine actress but an amazing character. Daisy's a good actress, but maybe it's because she lacks experience, or maybe because of how her character is written, but the simple fact is the entire ST is at its best whenever Adam's on screen. Because Adam isn't a good actor, he's a phenomenal actor. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren - I actually love both of them - is possibly the best SW character to date. Rey is at her best when she's interacting with him.

They have made a huge mistake in killing him off. And not just because I'm a fan of the character but because he could easily carry a TV series, a series of films, or a comic book by himself. Once he bowed out I lost interest in the ST.
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Post by Kessel on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 9:12 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:And there's the rub.

The problem is, they've failed to sell Rey as a solo character. And it's not because she's a woman.
Look at Ellen Ripley in the Aliens franchise. Sigourney Weaver went from sole survivor to the star of the franchise. And it was because she's not only a fine actress but an amazing character. Daisy's a good actress, but maybe it's because she lacks experience, or maybe because of how her character is written, but the simple fact is the entire ST is at its best whenever Adam's on screen. Because Adam isn't a good actor, he's a phenomenal actor. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren - I actually love both of them - is possibly the best SW character to date. Rey is at her best when she's interacting with him.

They have made a huge mistake in killing him off. And not just because I'm a fan of the character but because he could easily carry a TV series, a series of films, or a comic book by himself. Once he bowed out I lost interest in the ST.
@motherofpearl1

I agree. It’s a shame because there was so much potential for new types of stories if Ben had lived after redemption. I don’t think we’ve seen a real exploration of a character like that in Star Wars before. They really limited the amount of stories they can tell about him now.

As it is, he only lived for thirty years, which is a tragedy.

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Post by Geralt_Riv on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 10:12 am

@Kessel wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:And there's the rub.

The problem is, they've failed to sell Rey as a solo character. And it's not because she's a woman.
Look at Ellen Ripley in the Aliens franchise. Sigourney Weaver went from sole survivor to the star of the franchise. And it was because she's not only a fine actress but an amazing character. Daisy's a good actress, but maybe it's because she lacks experience, or maybe because of how her character is written, but the simple fact is the entire ST is at its best whenever Adam's on screen. Because Adam isn't a good actor, he's a phenomenal actor. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren - I actually love both of them - is possibly the best SW character to date. Rey is at her best when she's interacting with him.

They have made a huge mistake in killing him off. And not just because I'm a fan of the character but because he could easily carry a TV series, a series of films, or a comic book by himself. Once he bowed out I lost interest in the ST.
@motherofpearl1

I agree. It’s a shame because there was so much potential for new types of stories if Ben had lived after redemption. I don’t think we’ve seen a real exploration of a character like that in Star Wars before. They really limited the amount of stories they can tell about him now.

As it is, he only lived for thirty years, which is a tragedy.
@Kessel
There were in the old EU. Kyp Durron for example. He killed millions of people and he came back to the light and lived as a Jedi.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 10:41 am

I suspect that is too intense, thought provoking and challenging for the movers and shakers at the mouse. TLJ was, which was why they retconned it.

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Post by Kessel on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 10:51 am

@Geralt_Riv wrote:
@Kessel wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:And there's the rub.

The problem is, they've failed to sell Rey as a solo character. And it's not because she's a woman.
Look at Ellen Ripley in the Aliens franchise. Sigourney Weaver went from sole survivor to the star of the franchise. And it was because she's not only a fine actress but an amazing character. Daisy's a good actress, but maybe it's because she lacks experience, or maybe because of how her character is written, but the simple fact is the entire ST is at its best whenever Adam's on screen. Because Adam isn't a good actor, he's a phenomenal actor. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren - I actually love both of them - is possibly the best SW character to date. Rey is at her best when she's interacting with him.

They have made a huge mistake in killing him off. And not just because I'm a fan of the character but because he could easily carry a TV series, a series of films, or a comic book by himself. Once he bowed out I lost interest in the ST.
@motherofpearl1

I agree. It’s a shame because there was so much potential for new types of stories if Ben had lived after redemption. I don’t think we’ve seen a real exploration of a character like that in Star Wars before. They really limited the amount of stories they can tell about him now.

As it is, he only lived for thirty years, which is a tragedy.
@Kessel
There were in the old EU. Kyp Durron for example. He killed millions of people and he came back to the light and lived as a Jedi.
@Geralt_Riv

I’m not familiar with the EU so I didn’t know that, but his name sounds familiar. Revan from KOTOR was the closest thing I knew, but I was only going by the sagas.

I just briefly looked up Kyp and his story sounds really interesting. I might check it out. It makes me even more upset that Ben Solo was killed off right after his redemption.

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 12:13 pm

@Geralt_Riv wrote:
@Kessel wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:And there's the rub.

The problem is, they've failed to sell Rey as a solo character. And it's not because she's a woman.
Look at Ellen Ripley in the Aliens franchise. Sigourney Weaver went from sole survivor to the star of the franchise. And it was because she's not only a fine actress but an amazing character. Daisy's a good actress, but maybe it's because she lacks experience, or maybe because of how her character is written, but the simple fact is the entire ST is at its best whenever Adam's on screen. Because Adam isn't a good actor, he's a phenomenal actor. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren - I actually love both of them - is possibly the best SW character to date. Rey is at her best when she's interacting with him.

They have made a huge mistake in killing him off. And not just because I'm a fan of the character but because he could easily carry a TV series, a series of films, or a comic book by himself. Once he bowed out I lost interest in the ST.
@motherofpearl1

I agree. It’s a shame because there was so much potential for new types of stories if Ben had lived after redemption. I don’t think we’ve seen a real exploration of a character like that in Star Wars before. They really limited the amount of stories they can tell about him now.

As it is, he only lived for thirty years, which is a tragedy.
@Kessel
There were in the old EU. Kyp Durron for example. He killed millions of people and he came back to the light and lived as a Jedi.
@Geralt_Riv

This causes me to wonder why old EU dudebros had such a problem with Ben...unless..I think I know - he killed Han Solo, which is so sigh. (We know with Donna's review, the old EU feminist-antis have issues because - clutches pearls - abuse! more sigh)
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Post by Geralt_Riv on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 1:05 pm

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@Geralt_Riv wrote:
@Kessel wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:And there's the rub.

The problem is, they've failed to sell Rey as a solo character. And it's not because she's a woman.
Look at Ellen Ripley in the Aliens franchise. Sigourney Weaver went from sole survivor to the star of the franchise. And it was because she's not only a fine actress but an amazing character. Daisy's a good actress, but maybe it's because she lacks experience, or maybe because of how her character is written, but the simple fact is the entire ST is at its best whenever Adam's on screen. Because Adam isn't a good actor, he's a phenomenal actor. And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren - I actually love both of them - is possibly the best SW character to date. Rey is at her best when she's interacting with him.

They have made a huge mistake in killing him off. And not just because I'm a fan of the character but because he could easily carry a TV series, a series of films, or a comic book by himself. Once he bowed out I lost interest in the ST.
@motherofpearl1

I agree. It’s a shame because there was so much potential for new types of stories if Ben had lived after redemption. I don’t think we’ve seen a real exploration of a character like that in Star Wars before. They really limited the amount of stories they can tell about him now.

As it is, he only lived for thirty years, which is a tragedy.
@Kessel
There were in the old EU. Kyp Durron for example. He killed millions of people and he came back to the light and lived as a Jedi.
@Geralt_Riv

This causes me to wonder why old EU dudebros had such a problem with Ben...unless..I think I know - he killed Han Solo, which is so sigh.  (We know with Donna's review, the old EU feminist-antis have issues because - clutches pearls - abuse! more sigh)
@SW_Heroine_Journey
Killing Han is the problem they have. Kyp was Han's friend and it was Han who convinced him to come back to the light.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 1:19 pm

Just as he did with his son.
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Post by Geralt_Riv on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 1:22 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Just as he did with his son.
@motherofpearl1
Yes. Smile
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 1:25 pm

I wonder what these antis have actually realise Han could have lived on through his grandchildren.

No chance of that now, eh?
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Post by rey09 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 3:30 pm

Using han's murder is super dumb because the movie goes out of its way to address that by showing Han accepting and loving his son no matter what.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 3:37 pm

What currently is irritating me is although there's a longer cut of the film, JJ keeps insisting that Kylo was always going to get killed off.

If this is the case, how come they botch his death scene so much it looks like an afterthought.
How could JJ have Rey weeping over Han, but not the man who'd died for her?
Why'd she go to Tattooine of all places?
And why no FG of Ben/Kylo?

Sorry JJ, your explanations don't cut the mustard!
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Post by rey09 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 4:25 pm

Nice visual by RT

TROS Box Office Thread - Page 4 Screen39

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 12:38 pm

Per Scott Mendelson, it was Christmas week, where the GA took their time to see the movie the first time, which saved TRoS from flopping.

Christmas Saved ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ From Box Office Disaster

"Whether due to J.J. Abrams’ determination to make the Star Wars trilogy he had in his head when he walked away after The Force Awakens or due to Disney and/or Lucasfilm believing the online hecklers, The Rise of Skywalker turned out to be both an oddly poor movie in terms of the fundamentals (a lack of buzzy action sequences, a lack of contemplative character beats, a movie that feels taped together in post-production, several core narrative elements that are vague enough to require post-release explanation, etc.) and a film that feels like an olive branch to the very angriest of Last Jedi detractors. The Rise of Skywalker looks like a franchise undone by listening to The Internet."

"However, give-or-take Kevin Feige using the media smack down of Age of Ultron to remove power from Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter (and thus allow Feige to report directly to Disney), Marvel didn’t panic with Age of Ultron. Conversely, Rise of Skywalker may have ruined Star Wars by listening to the Internet. And the only reason it’s not a genuine box office flop is because the Christmas break kept it from completely collapsing after opening weekend."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/08/christmas-saved-star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-from-box-office-disaster/#3558244b553a
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Post by OrionStars on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 6:04 pm

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Per Scott Mendelson, it was Christmas week, where the GA took their time to see the movie the first time, which saved TRoS from flopping.

Christmas Saved ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ From Box Office Disaster

"Whether due to J.J. Abrams’ determination to make the Star Wars trilogy he had in his head when he walked away after The Force Awakens or due to Disney and/or Lucasfilm believing the online hecklers, The Rise of Skywalker turned out to be both an oddly poor movie in terms of the fundamentals (a lack of buzzy action sequences, a lack of contemplative character beats, a movie that feels taped together in post-production, several core narrative elements that are vague enough to require post-release explanation, etc.) and a film that feels like an olive branch to the very angriest of Last Jedi detractors. The Rise of Skywalker looks like a franchise undone by listening to The Internet."

"However, give-or-take Kevin Feige using the media smack down of Age of Ultron to remove power from Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter (and thus allow Feige to report directly to Disney), Marvel didn’t panic with Age of Ultron. Conversely, Rise of Skywalker may have ruined Star Wars by listening to the Internet. And the only reason it’s not a genuine box office flop is because the Christmas break kept it from completely collapsing after opening weekend."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/08/christmas-saved-star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-from-box-office-disaster/#3558244b553a
@SW_Heroine_Journey

Who is gonna be "Kevin Feige of LFL" in this case?  Dave Filoni? Jon Favreau? Kevin Feige himself? IYF
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 6:11 pm

@OrionStars wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Per Scott Mendelson, it was Christmas week, where the GA took their time to see the movie the first time, which saved TRoS from flopping.

Christmas Saved ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ From Box Office Disaster

"Whether due to J.J. Abrams’ determination to make the Star Wars trilogy he had in his head when he walked away after The Force Awakens or due to Disney and/or Lucasfilm believing the online hecklers, The Rise of Skywalker turned out to be both an oddly poor movie in terms of the fundamentals (a lack of buzzy action sequences, a lack of contemplative character beats, a movie that feels taped together in post-production, several core narrative elements that are vague enough to require post-release explanation, etc.) and a film that feels like an olive branch to the very angriest of Last Jedi detractors. The Rise of Skywalker looks like a franchise undone by listening to The Internet."

"However, give-or-take Kevin Feige using the media smack down of Age of Ultron to remove power from Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter (and thus allow Feige to report directly to Disney), Marvel didn’t panic with Age of Ultron. Conversely, Rise of Skywalker may have ruined Star Wars by listening to the Internet. And the only reason it’s not a genuine box office flop is because the Christmas break kept it from completely collapsing after opening weekend."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/08/christmas-saved-star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-from-box-office-disaster/#3558244b553a
@SW_Heroine_Journey

Who is gonna be "Kevin Feige of LFL" in this case?  Dave Filoni? Jon Favreau? Kevin Feige himself? IYF
@OrionStars

LOL. Maybe all three?

I love diversity - for those of different genders and/or ethnicity to be in charge, and originally was thrilled KK was in charge of LF, yet that was meh. Back to three white guys who hopefully will step aside for POC/WOC someday.

Fortunately, 2 out of the 3 understand mythical/Campbell storytelling. I think that Feige actually may understand it (I think some are too hard on him, but it's popular to be SW vs Marvel at times).

Very Happy Smile
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Post by Atenais on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 6:27 pm

The sad thing about the [relative] fail of the ST is that it's the first SW trilogy having a female as a protagonist, so, this trilogy could have had a great positive impact.
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Post by MaddieDove on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 7:20 pm

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Per Scott Mendelson, it was Christmas week, where the GA took their time to see the movie the first time, which saved TRoS from flopping.

Christmas Saved ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ From Box Office Disaster

"Whether due to J.J. Abrams’ determination to make the Star Wars trilogy he had in his head when he walked away after The Force Awakens or due to Disney and/or Lucasfilm believing the online hecklers, The Rise of Skywalker turned out to be both an oddly poor movie in terms of the fundamentals (a lack of buzzy action sequences, a lack of contemplative character beats, a movie that feels taped together in post-production, several core narrative elements that are vague enough to require post-release explanation, etc.) and a film that feels like an olive branch to the very angriest of Last Jedi detractors. The Rise of Skywalker looks like a franchise undone by listening to The Internet."

"However, give-or-take Kevin Feige using the media smack down of Age of Ultron to remove power from Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter (and thus allow Feige to report directly to Disney), Marvel didn’t panic with Age of Ultron. Conversely, Rise of Skywalker may have ruined Star Wars by listening to the Internet. And the only reason it’s not a genuine box office flop is because the Christmas break kept it from completely collapsing after opening weekend."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/08/christmas-saved-star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-from-box-office-disaster/#3558244b553a
@SW_Heroine_Journey

Who is gonna be "Kevin Feige of LFL" in this case?  Dave Filoni? Jon Favreau? Kevin Feige himself? IYF
@OrionStars

LOL. Maybe all three?  

I love diversity - for those of different genders and/or ethnicity to be in charge, and originally was thrilled KK was in charge of LF, yet that was meh.  Back to three white guys who hopefully will step aside for POC/WOC someday.

Fortunately, 2 out of the 3 understand mythical/Campbell storytelling.  I think that Feige actually may understand it (I think some are too hard on him, but it's popular to be SW vs Marvel at times).

Very Happy Smile
@SW_Heroine_Journey

The sad thing is I don't care anymore.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 08 Jan 2020, 7:25 pm

@MaddieDove wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Per Scott Mendelson, it was Christmas week, where the GA took their time to see the movie the first time, which saved TRoS from flopping.

Christmas Saved ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ From Box Office Disaster

"Whether due to J.J. Abrams’ determination to make the Star Wars trilogy he had in his head when he walked away after The Force Awakens or due to Disney and/or Lucasfilm believing the online hecklers, The Rise of Skywalker turned out to be both an oddly poor movie in terms of the fundamentals (a lack of buzzy action sequences, a lack of contemplative character beats, a movie that feels taped together in post-production, several core narrative elements that are vague enough to require post-release explanation, etc.) and a film that feels like an olive branch to the very angriest of Last Jedi detractors. The Rise of Skywalker looks like a franchise undone by listening to The Internet."

"However, give-or-take Kevin Feige using the media smack down of Age of Ultron to remove power from Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter (and thus allow Feige to report directly to Disney), Marvel didn’t panic with Age of Ultron. Conversely, Rise of Skywalker may have ruined Star Wars by listening to the Internet. And the only reason it’s not a genuine box office flop is because the Christmas break kept it from completely collapsing after opening weekend."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/08/christmas-saved-star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-from-box-office-disaster/#3558244b553a
@SW_Heroine_Journey

Who is gonna be "Kevin Feige of LFL" in this case?  Dave Filoni? Jon Favreau? Kevin Feige himself? IYF
@OrionStars

LOL. Maybe all three?  

I love diversity - for those of different genders and/or ethnicity to be in charge, and originally was thrilled KK was in charge of LF, yet that was meh.  Back to three white guys who hopefully will step aside for POC/WOC someday.

Fortunately, 2 out of the 3 understand mythical/Campbell storytelling.  I think that Feige actually may understand it (I think some are too hard on him, but it's popular to be SW vs Marvel at times).

Very Happy Smile
@SW_Heroine_Journey

The sad thing is I don't care anymore.
@MaddieDove

I'm kinda the same way. Specifically, I've decided, regardless of franchise or studio (so this includes Wonder Woman), to approach enjoying things project by project. I'm no longer crossing dates off of a calendar excited, or theorizing ahead of time. I'm very much in the present with what I choose to enjoy.
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TROS Box Office Thread - Page 4 Empty Re: TROS Box Office Thread

Post by special_cases on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 5:37 am

Looks like it has all chances to hit 1b in the end of this weekend ( it had surpisingly great last weekend). But domesting numbers are embarrassing< and in the best case scenario the total will be 1.2b - which I'm still not sure about.

Some guy was shouting at me on Twitter that TROS will get 1b last week and that it will leave TLJ BO behind by this date and now I see that he blocked me LOL. All these people are reading Deadline or even Scott and refuse to do basic math in their own head. How it can be bigger than TLJ if it had lowest OW and weak legs?
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Post by Atenais on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 8:16 am

@MaddieDove wrote:The sad thing is I don't care anymore.
@MaddieDove

This too. XD
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