Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by vaderito on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 4:45 pm

yes. though OT never held any magic to me. I'm a PT girl.
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Post by Moonjump05 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 4:46 pm

@vaderito wrote:so hubby has the conference call with shareholders and it looks like they are not moving out of OT era as far as D+ goes.  they're focusing on TV: Mandalorian, Obiwan series, and the 'prequel to Rogue One' (obv Cassian series).Mando series could lead to other characters in the series moving in their own direction (could mean their own series?).

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/disneys-bob-iger-teases-mandalorian-falcon-winter-soldier-wandavision-dates-1276326

"During an earnings call, Iger revealed The Mandalorian will return in October and will run beyond season two, "including the possibility of infusing it with more characters and taking those characters in their own direction in terms of series."
@vaderito

OT is safe, the PT is too reviled except for TCW which is already coming and what would they do with the ST?  The BFG are dull, the great evil is gone and they can't milk the nostalgia


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm

I liked them all, the entire saga. Until now.
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Post by californiagirl on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 5:45 pm

The only thing to come out of the call is that the shows are still on, since there had been rumors they weren't, and that Mando comes back in October, probably so it can be done before one of the new Marvel shows comes out in December. He claimed the ST didn't do well in China because it takes knowing a bunch of other movies and their legacies to understand. Except the ST did have new characters, tons of them, they just weren't done justice in the end. And TROS only works if you essentially don't care about the new or even really the old characters.
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Post by OrionStars on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 9:14 pm

@californiagirl wrote:The only thing to come out of the call is that the shows are still on, since there had been rumors they weren't, and that Mando comes back in October, probably so it can be done before one of the new Marvel shows comes out in December. He claimed the ST didn't do well in China because it takes knowing a bunch of other movies and their legacies to understand. Except the ST did have new characters, tons of them, they just weren't done justice in the end. And TROS only works if you essentially don't care about the new or even really the old characters.
@californiagirl


That's not true now. I know Western tabloids have always tried to simplify sith and spread fake news for clickbait, but the truth is after TFA got released, SW franchise was widely known in China, people started to marathon the franchise plus they had been facilitated to access all SW films for free on the internet (they could also watch Mandalorian for free without paying Disney streaming service). They loved OT, PT and gave those film high ratings, but that was when the problem started, people soon realized that Disney SW films were soulless snore-fest with dull, uncreative contents just for quick cash grabs, Disney's SW characters were badly written, some people felt offended by the way Disney treated the Chinese actors (veteran actor Jiang Wen had to carry a ridiculous 'trash bin' on his back in RO1), some criticized Finn's appearance and character arc because they expected to see Hollywood handsome actor like Micheal B Jordan played the main male hero with a better arc, some found Rey annoying and Mary Sue with weird costume (the way she wrongly wrapped that sheet cloth on her meant bad luck and funeral attendance in Asian culture), uncle  Poe with a grumpy, uncharismatic attitude certainly couldn't make anything better...etc...

Reylo/Kylo also had a passionate female-dominated fandom there but they already realized that they got baited for nothing by Disney's sponsored advertisements about Reylo/ Kylo on Chinese social media so things already went downhill after TROS

Anw, TROS is having the lowest rating now, even lower than TPM, such an irony

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 1:50 am

It all boils down to two things.
They have erased the heart and soul of the franchise, the Skywalker/Solo family. This doesn't just damage the ST, it's completely destroyed the entire saga. I'll never see SW in the same light now, what's the point of the heroes destroying Sidious - he came back in the rotting flesh and killed off their heir. Luke's nephew, Han and Leia's son, Padme and Anakin's grandson. He won. The film even says it 'the last Skywalker fell'.
Rey..... isn't interesting. She was up until this. But the stark fact is, by turning her into Uber woman they took away her human frailty and turned her into an ideal. The perfect woman. The perfect Jedi. The perfect daughter.

What astonishes me, is they really have no idea of what they've done, do they? They've c****** all over a forty two year old saga, all to push the childhood dream of its writer and director. The Story of the Twins. Anakin and Padme are forgotten, apart from one of them being used as a two minute voiceover to help uberwoman. Han Solo is discarded - he was Luke's best friend, the love of Leia's life, but, to quote Kylo, 'he has no place in this story'.

No, it's all about the Twins, the pure notion of the Jedi, and promotes the notion of 'no attachments'.....the Jedi must not fall in love, or have children, because it's a sin.
You can simply choose the most worthy and sanctified person, make them your heir and give them your name. And she has to be a Princess, of course - a nobody could NEVER be bestowed with the Great Title of Skywalker.

Meanwhile the REAL heir is discarded because he was conceived the natural way.

The whole thing makes me want to vomit.
Problem is....Han Solo and Kylo/Ben were the most popular characters in the saga. Who cares about uberwoman? Not this fan. And judging by the box office receipts, I'm not the only one.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 5:07 am

They wanted the trio to continue beyond IX. But the trio flopped because characters were random. you never make a trio random. there's a structure behind trios. It's like a triangle there you have a top point and 2 points at the bottom that support the top. There's never equality in a trio for one is always who the story is about with 2 supporting him/her. That's why it's important that support has specific meaning. Take these examples:

Neo is the top. He's the One. But he cannot reach his potential without knowledge (Morpheus) and belief in himself (Trinity). That's why this trio is a mentor/knowledge/teaching and a love interest/emotion/faith in one you love.

Harry is the top. He's the bridge between Muggle and wizard worlds. For him to reach his potential, he needs to be in touch with both sides. Ron the wizard-born wizard is his wizard side (magic), Hermione the Muggle-born witch is his Muggle side (learning). There's a reason why those 2 members of the trio are exactly this.

TFA was never structured as a trio and therefore ST was never structured as a trio. Rey has always been self-sufficient. While Harry wasn't all that without his friends, Hermione's brains and knowledge, on one side, and Ron's emotional/family support on the other, Rey never needed anyone. That's a death knell to any trio if your top doesn't need support because he/she is self-reliant. So what do Finn and Poe represent? Nothing. What benefit Rey has from them? None. It's a bust.

BTW, if you look at chronology of events, CT script had a lot of Rose because he was fired before TLJ came out. So her treatment was not adjusted to backlash. They announced that CT was let go on Sep 5 2017 which is 3 months before TLJ release.

https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/colin-trevorrow-will-no-longer-direct-star-wars-episode-ix.html

So you now understand why she was minimized in JJ script. It was written after TLJ came out and therefore influenced by TLJ reception. They can't deny that. CT didn't have Rose as a major character out of the goodness of his heart but because they expected big things from her. JJ cut her down because she proved unpopular (and make no mistake CT would have too if he remained aboard).
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Post by Mila95 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:38 am

That makes a lot of sense on what makes trios work. Even with the OT trio you have Luke as the main and Leia being the one to motivate him to get into the adventure with her message and representing the resistance side of the story and Han as the more street smart, cynical type.PT trio with Anakin in the center and Padme representing love and passion while Obi Wan represents the duty and rules of the jedi order. Or Pirates of the Caribbean where you have Elizabeth in the middle with Will representing the noble hero and Jack the morally grey pirate.and she struggles between being attracted to both, not just romantically but more in the sense of who she really is herself. Basically you need them affecting each other, having thematic significance and having distinctive personalities. The ST trio lacks all that. They're so similar that Rian thought Poe and Finn sound the same in terms of lines and didn't challenge each other which TROS proved to be painfully true. Finn and Rey kinda affect each other but more Rey for Finn as the motivation to not leave in TFA. Poe and Rey literally don't affect each other in the slightest bit. It's kinda baffling that, considering how much they were putting on this aspect in TROS, no one thought to look at what makes those dynamics work and then adjust as much as possible to have them resemble that tho it was already pretty late to start building it up.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:49 am

Unpopular with the toxics of course.
I've noticed that both on YouTube and CBR, TLJ haters are singing this film's praises. Which is to be expected as it's been created for them, along with Abrams and Terrio.
The test of time however, will prove that despite it's flaws TLJ was a masterpiece. And TROS a poorly written plotless mess.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 7:55 am

I knew that the trio would sound like one character just from watching TFA. Then Rian came to the same conclusion when he started writing Finn and Poe. Then TROS proved that they are, as one eloquent geek put it, "eager beaver Luke in ANH split in 3".

Obi Wan (intelect) and Padme (emotion) is what caused an explosive reaction in Anakin. That's why those 2 characters were part of the trio. They supported him on his way to the Dark Side. You create a goal for your main character, where he/she is going, and then surround him/her with people who make that happe/help him/her get there for better or worse. Finn and Poe had no such impact on Rey.

P.S. comic books keep putting a more interesting content than the movies:

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-rise-of-kylo-ren-3-preview
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Post by reylo1992 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 9:21 am

@reylo1992 You were so optimist in your first view of the movie. Now, that you had time to think about the movie, you understand why we didn't like it from the beginning. This movie does dirty with all characters and let us, the viewers, with several unresolved questions.[/quote]

@Atenais

That doesn't negate the fact that I was able to enjoy my time in the theaters, which definitely wasn't the case for TLJ. One of the reasons  why I have been away after TLJ is that I realized that digging too much into TFA made me unable to enjoy TLJ for what it was. I came in the theaters with a specific reading grid and thus was unable to see the good in what was proposed by Rian. Thus, I came out from the theaters feeling dizzy because the ending of the movie really took me out of the confort zone: having Kylo say "You're nothing" to Rey, having him taking the command of the FO in full rage mode, firing like crazy on Luke, ordering to kill all people in the base, then ending up stupidly fooled, etc...

That's when I had this painful realization that there wouldn't be any long-run redemption path, that getting a happily ever after wasn't ensured and that Reylo could be discarded given the current #MeToo context. It also made me realize that as much I care for this story, it wasn't worth to make me dizzy for the fate of a fiction and a fictional character just because my headcanons weren't validated. Rian was absolutely right to tweet that as a writer you can never provide a story that will satisfy what every person envisions in his mind. It's their responsibility as a writer to propose a good story but it's also my responsibility as a viewer not to let my personal headcanon dictates what a good story should be. That's probably what shielded me when I came back around November to « celebrate » the end of the road together. It's a strange feeling to come back after 1-2 years on a forum where you have fond memories and all you see are people in negative mode even before we get to see the movie .
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Let's face it: the simple idea of Rey Palpatine, Rey spending much time with Finn & Poe,  Rey stabbing Kylo, Ben being thrown in a pit upsetted people way before the movie was out because it endangered what we had envisioned for the outcome of this story since TFA. So based on what I experienced with TLJ, I decided to let go of that and enter the theaters without paying attention whether or not it validated any preconceived idea. And the fact  is : I was able to enjoy the movie for what it was despite its flaws during each viewing (which SW movie doesn’t have any flaw  btw ?), which was also the case of all GA people I personally know (while most of them weren’t particularly fond of TFA and TLJ). My POV on this movie has always been that it works pretty good as a standalone and could have been an amazing middle movie but that it provides an uncomplete story of the ST and an unsatisfying conclusion for the franchise as a whole. But contrary to many « Bendemptionists », it’s not « Ben’s death » that represents the « sin » of TROS because IMO it’s a headcanon to think that his survival was the only way to end the arc on a satisfying note.

What is canon is that the Skywalker story began with a slave boy named Anakin Skywalker who was believed by the Jedi to be the Chosen One, which made him the target of a Sith named Palpatine, which led to a long-run family drama, which hightlighted this battle between the dark side and the light side. But J.J. and Terrio obviously went along with the headcanon that this story began with ANH and thus applied their directing choices accordingly. From the moment you decide to skip the first act of the story, then I guess you don’t need to make Ben the reverse of Anakin (and Reylo the reverse of Anidala), to give him a big redemption moment and to acknowledge how tragic the fate of this family was from the beginning. There are good ideas in that movie but the way they are executed understandably ends up causing the opposite reaction of their initial goal because the messages sent to the viewer was thought in the context of 6 episodes instead of 9.

If you think in term of 6 episodes, it could have made sense to send the message that Luke (& Leia) was trying to come to term with his birth legacy in the OT and Rey shows that what matters the most in the end is the legacy you choose to be part of because there are stronger things than blood. But in the context of 9 episodes, it derails the initial intention, giving the feeling that Luke’s legacy as a Skywalker was only his own as if Anakin wasn’t the first Skywalker and that Rey steals that legacy as if Ben wasn’t the Skywalker descendant. That’s where the « sin » of TROS is in my mind. And beyond that, I have become harsher because of how the Star Wars crew now conveniently ignore specific parts of the story that they made canon. From the moment, you make Rey canonly kiss eagerly Ben moments after she canonly confessed « I wanted to take your hand », it’s cynical to canonly write on your website that the people she  canonly considers family are « Luke, Leia, Finn & Poe » as if Dude was never part of her world and the romance was just a headcanon imagined by crazy Reylos.
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Post by Mila95 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 10:11 am

From the comic it looks like Ben wasn't more than 10 years old when he was sent away. That's actually pretty awful, I was assuming he was at least 16-17.I don't think a kid that young should be so far away from his parents. And even tho Luke was his uncle it seems he was treated like everyone else considering he was calling him master so there was a certain distance there. Han and Leia really don't look great here. Han might have not being for it but it's not like he took Ben away either, he just let it happen. And it's even worse after TROS knowing that Leia apparently can train jedi, just not her own kid.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 11:34 am

Once again, TROS painting Leia as someone who cared more about Rey than Ben. Even her sacrificing her life to reach her son....
Could easily be seen as an attempt to save Rey, not Ben.

TFA and TLJ established Han and Leia as not good parents. I'm sure they loved Ben but they just weren't cut out to have kids. Leia always put her 'cause' first, whether it was saving the galaxy or rebuilding the Republic. Han for the most part put himself first (which was why his sacrifice in TFA was so powerful.). This didn't make them bad people, just had parents. A lot of real life famous people were like that - Queen Victoria was considered a great Queen, yet was by all accounts a terrible mother. As for Luke I said myself that his mistake was by being Ben's master when he should have been his uncle, at least when he realised something was wrong. I saw the OT as people scarred by the past - unlike Luke, Han and Leia never saw Anakin redeemed, just their enemy Darth Vader. So whenever there was some incident when Ben misbehaved or threw a tantrum they'd automatically see it not as a normal kid growing up but as it being 'Vader in him.'
The thing that annoys me is how the dudebros moaned that TLJ 'disrespected' Luke - yet TROS actually depicted Luke and Leia as deadbeats who happily threw away the boy who was their flesh and blood to replace him with a'worthy' daughter. I'm genuinely astonished JJ did this after establishing Leia's continuing love for her child and the need to 'have him back' in TFA.
I can't help but wonder how if Kylo killing Han was just a ploy to give the OT a reason to forget Ben, and happily shower their love and affection on Rey. Ironically the dudebros who whined about Luke in TLJ seem to love TROS, judging by what I've seen on YouTube and CBR forums. I wonder if they even realize that TROS makes Luke and Leia not just a failure at raising a child....but vile people.
Han is the only one who emerges with dignity.
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 11:35 am

I've seen people questioning why they keep giving Kylo more backstory, that it must just be sadistic and to make people be in pain because that's all LF does. While Reylos get treated like crap with unfortunate frequency, IMO this is a pretty self-centered view, not everything is specifically about you and everyone being after you in every context all the time. They were clearly committed to Kylo having a tragic backstory for a long time, since TFA pre-production most likely, it was inevitable they were going to put the full version out into the world in some medium at some point or another. I get that some people are swearing off SW, but clearly not everyone given the wild success of this comic. I'm honestly glad Kylo got a good and well-written and popular thing to star in, even if it hurts. And I still doubt Soule actually knew much about TROS, EU authors generally don't have special insight on upcoming films.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 11:39 am

I wish Soule could have written TROS!
If they ever decide to bring Ben back, in comics I hope he's the one to do it.
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Post by SkyStar on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 11:53 am

I guess they feel like it worked with Anakin so why not. But that is different. Its so strange they repeat patterns without even really thinking of does it even make sense. Just to do something because it was done before and it work at that time and those characters
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Post by Saracene on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 2:28 pm

@vaderito wrote:I knew that the trio would sound like one character just from watching TFA. Then Rian came to the same conclusion when he started writing Finn and Poe. Then TROS proved that they are, as one eloquent geek put it, "eager beaver Luke in ANH split in 3".
@vaderito

The problem with TFA was that JJ relied solely on the actors’ chemistry to make Finn/Poe and Finn/Rey engaging rather than thinking about any deeper character stuff and how characters work together. Problem is, “delightful chemistry” can work for one movie maybe but it gets stale real fast without any underlying substance.
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Post by Atenais on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 9:58 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:
@Atenais wrote:@reylo1992 You were so optimist in your first view of the movie. Now, that you had time to think about the movie, you understand why we didn't like it from the beginning. This movie does dirty with all characters and let us, the viewers, with several unresolved questions.

@Atenais

That doesn't negate the fact that I was able to enjoy my time in the theaters, which definitely wasn't the case for TLJ. One of the reasons  why I have been away after TLJ is that I realized that digging too much into TFA made me unable to enjoy TLJ for what it was. I came in the theaters with a specific reading grid and thus was unable to see the good in what was proposed by Rian. Thus, I came out from the theaters feeling dizzy because the ending of the movie really took me out of the confort zone: having Kylo say "You're nothing" to Rey, having him taking the command of the FO in full rage mode, firing like crazy on Luke, ordering to kill all people in the base, then ending up stupidly fooled, etc...

That's when I had this painful realization that there wouldn't be any long-run redemption path, that getting a happily ever after wasn't ensured and that Reylo could be discarded given the current #MeToo context. It also made me realize that as much I care for this story, it wasn't worth to make me dizzy for the fate of a fiction and a fictional character just because my headcanons weren't validated. Rian was absolutely right to tweet that as a writer you can never provide a story that will satisfy what every person envisions in his mind. It's their responsibility as a writer to propose a good story but it's also my responsibility as a viewer not to let my personal headcanon dictates what a good story should be. That's probably what shielded me when I came back around November to « celebrate » the end of the road together. It's a strange feeling to come back after 1-2 years on a forum where you have fond memories and all you see are people in negative mode even before we get to see the movie .
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 2 Source14

Let's face it: the simple idea of Rey Palpatine, Rey spending much time with Finn & Poe,  Rey stabbing Kylo, Ben being thrown in a pit upsetted people way before the movie was out because it endangered what we had envisioned for the outcome of this story since TFA. So based on what I experienced with TLJ, I decided to let go of that and enter the theaters without paying attention whether or not it validated any preconceived idea. And the fact  is : I was able to enjoy the movie for what it was despite its flaws during each viewing (which SW movie doesn’t have any flaw  btw ?), which was also the case of all GA people I personally know (while most of them weren’t particularly fond of TFA and TLJ). My POV on this movie has always been that it works pretty good as a standalone and could have been an amazing middle movie but that it provides an uncomplete story of the ST and an unsatisfying conclusion for the franchise as a whole. But contrary to many « Bendemptionists », it’s not « Ben’s death » that represents the « sin » of TROS because IMO it’s a headcanon to think that his survival was the only way to end the arc on a satisfying note.

What is canon is that the Skywalker story began with a slave boy named Anakin Skywalker who was believed by the Jedi to be the Chosen One, which made him the target of a Sith named Palpatine, which led to a long-run family drama, which hightlighted this battle between the dark side and the light side. But J.J. and Terrio obviously went along with the headcanon that this story began with ANH and thus applied their directing choices accordingly. From the moment you decide to skip the first act of the story, then I guess you don’t need to make Ben the reverse of Anakin (and Reylo the reverse of Anidala), to give him a big redemption moment and to acknowledge how tragic the fate of this family was from the beginning. There are good ideas in that movie but the way they are executed understandably ends up causing the opposite reaction of their initial goal because the messages sent to the viewer was thought in the context of 6 episodes instead of 9.

If you think in term of 6 episodes, it could have made sense to send the message that Luke (& Leia) was trying to come to term with his birth legacy in the OT and Rey shows that what matters the most in the end is the legacy you choose to be part of because there are stronger things than blood. But in the context of 9 episodes, it derails the initial intention, giving the feeling that Luke’s legacy as a Skywalker was only his own as if Anakin wasn’t the first Skywalker and that Rey steals that legacy as if Ben wasn’t the Skywalker descendant. That’s where the « sin » of TROS is in my mind. And beyond that, I have become harsher because of how the Star Wars crew now conveniently ignore specific parts of the story that they made canon. From the moment, you make Rey canonly kiss eagerly Ben moments after she canonly confessed « I wanted to take your hand », it’s cynical to canonly write on your website that the people she  canonly considers family are « Luke, Leia, Finn & Poe » as if Dude was never part of her world and the romance was just a headcanon imagined by crazy Reylos.
@reylo1992

TBH, even if Kylo was my favourite character, I always had zero problems with his death. Part of me expected that. What I disliked about the movie had nothing to do with my headcanons. I disliked the movie because it was poorly made, with terrible dialogue (silly and very expository) and even bad effects. Not to tell the retconn and the way they treated KMT.


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Post by Darth Snoopy on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:50 am

With the risk of sounding entitled, the new films, shouldn't have been made without a clear story and goal, for a trilogy and a definite understanding of how they actually forwarded and concluded the Skywalker saga. I enjoyed TFA for what it was, and loved The Last Jedi - though I understand if others disliked that film. For me, the best thing of the new trilogy was Ben Solo, even though they managed to squick the character up too. When going into any sequel of any story or franchise, I think it's natural to have ideas or expectations of where it will go, your brain trying to balance out the equation, when you have some but not all the variables - but I and others are just audience members, so our head cannons shouldn't have a bearing on the intention of any story or art. Yet, TROS, does show a response to fan backlash or perception, and it's to its detriment. Star Wars means a lot to people, fans don't see them just as films, but as testament and shaping mechanism of certain thoughts and ideals - a hyper reality that a person connects with on a formative level, is bound to cause emotional reactions. I think that this last film was not made as well as previous installments, and that it can be seen in the LAST of something supposedly definitive is upsetting. I try to temper my criticism of the film, as I'm not a filmmaker, but I do think that a continuation of any episodic story should retain consistency in themes and be able to progress without negatively deconstructing the foundation (being the the PT and OT) or outright negating things that happened. I like new stories, different stories, but not when it makes any emotional investment in prior tales feel wasted. I will always love Star Wars, but to me  episode 9 wasn't enjoyable, I felt quite indifferent to most of the plot and characters and mostly irritated when the story ignored its own beats. It answered little, and retreaded grounds, other characters walked before. People may have been disappointed in the PT when they came out, but at least that story was majorly coherent - and reframed the saga, without detracting from the core story of the OT. I like the ST, I don't hate it, but I was disappointed that I couldn't enjoy this last film, and that it also impacted how I view the others. Apologies for the long ramble. Shy
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 2:13 am

I loved TLJ. But I started off liking it, and got to love it because repeated viewings made me realize just what a great film it is. I now consider it the best of all the SW films.
BUT..... this of course is my personal opinion. My brother, who's also a long time SW fan, was more cautious, especially where Luke's portrayal was concerned (he's his favourite character) . But, like me, he learned to appreciate the film more on repeated viewings, and he loved Kylo/Ben

My problems with TROS are legion, but the biggest letdowns are a. It's the only SW film I don't want to see again, and b. It's tainted my love for the franchise. I never saw TPM, purely because I was disappointed that Anakin was depicted as a child, I did read the novelization though. I liked the other two prequels, although they had faults, but I loved the performances of Ian and Ewan, and Hayden and Natalie were terrific in ROTS.

TROS has no story. The prequels suffered from dodgy scripts but the plotlines were excellent. TFA did rehash elements of ANH but had enough freshness to be enjoyable, and it's shortcomings were forgiveable because it was the opening chapter. TLJ was a beautifully made film, and I actually thougerseht the acting was the best out of the entire saga. Most of all I loved how they explored new ideas, such as a shades of grey Resistance, fallible characters, and that the real enemy is war itself. One of the most powerful scenes for me is when Leia, Kaydel and D'Acy realise that despite their repeated attempts to call for help no one was coming. Not only does it show how people can let you down, it's an element that offers, like RO, a grittier, more cynical version of the SW universe that's sadly right for these times. I wanted to see more of this.

Instead, what they did was a silly, juvenile retcon of a vastly superior film, from the erasure of the Asian actress who was such a delight in TLJ to them even ridiculing Amlyn Holdo's sacrifice, one of the most memorable scenes in TLJ. I honestly am astonished at the sheer pettiness of it. This film was made for the bigoted toxics who hated TLJ, but it was also simply a vessel for Terrio to make his eight year old self's version of what he wanted to see, supported by Abrams. Why KK allowed them to get away with it astonishes me, unless it was because she herself likes the notion of'strong women not needing boyfriends'. Ironically they've done Rey no services at all. This is not what the #metoo movement was about, and they've deeply distressed many real life abuse victims who identified with Ben Solo.
I know some people hate TLJ and love TROS. I respect their opinions and their views.
But....I am still reeling at the sheer 'badness' of the film itself. From the script to the story to even the visuals, it's a poorly made film. I am genuinely saddened that they've chosen to end the Skywalker saga like this - and that's without the unnecessarily depressing ending.
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 2:56 am

This is a big surprise from the new Vader comic. I don't know whether this female character was Padme or Padme clone or Padme doppelgänger. Let's hope that Vader didn't marry that new "Padme" and had other kids as replacements, lmao

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 2 YjlBUpa


Last edited by OrionStars on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Darth Snoopy on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 3:15 am

@motherofpearl1
I managed to stay away from spoilers going into the film, but have since learnt that most of the film was quite accurately leaked on Reddit? And that most people, thought they were fake or just decried the story as being bad. I do wonder if Disney or Lucasfilm actually monitors these leaks or if it was intentional? Though I think writers and creators should stick to their guns, and not worry about fan response - I think its interesting that the reactions to the leaks were negative? I also like to know if they ever, and I think they should, do test screenings for Star Wars films.

In regards to the almost lack of plot in TROS, in review they had many opportunities to up the stakes of their characters e.g. kylos almost non reaction to Palpatine stating he was every voice in his head - I would have had Ben have a freak out at that actually and coming off the coattails of TLJs '' let the past die'' have him misguidedly burn the FO to the ground as it was just an extension of Palpatines mechanisations. This would have been interesting as it meant him fighting the FO, but not necessarily turning to the light - a variation of vengeful motive that Finn had when Rose saves him in the TLJ. Rey being a Palpatine, we see a very lopsided reaction - to Finn, she says she's going to kill the Emperor (in revenge) , there's Dark Rey and we see her lashing out or giving back to Kylo her anger in her actions and the infamous stab and heal. But her being a Palpatine didn't have as many ramifications as it could have if it had been introduced earlier or differently. I also, have a personal pet idea of a scenario where the new republic could have had a severe hate of Palpatine and therefore feared his offspring (similar to Leia and Luke with the Vader reveal in Bloodline). And then perhaps they could have wanted to hunt down anyone seen as his possible heir from an official political or mercenary perspective. If Rey was created in the writers room  as knowing she was a hunted Palpatine - she could have been hiding out on Jakku, and it would have created a similar conflict in her wanting to belong somewhere but not being able to. Finn, is the character, that shouldn't have been pushed into comic relief or being so untouched by the strife of fellow troopers. He should have been visibly horrified when being put in a position of fighting other stormtroopers and actively addressed the brainwashing done by the FO. Rose - the handling of this character in TROS, is what I will never forgive ever. She didn't have to have a major arc or anything, but she was blatantly minimized. I've seen people argue that she had nothing to contribute to the story, but at least address the kiss from TLJ Suspect . I'm also not reducing her to Finns love interest or crutch, but in Star Wars, romance was always an important facet. A kiss in SW means more than it does in other films, Irvin Kershner explained that once, and I've subconsciously always perceived it that way.

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Post by Darth Snoopy on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 3:18 am

@OrionStars
Laughing It could be Sabe or one of the other handmaidens that looked similar to her? Always love any reference to Padme, though, hope it's not something weird Laughing
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 3:45 am

@Darth Snoopy wrote:@OrionStars
Laughing It could be Sabe or one of the other handmaidens that looked similar to her? Always love any reference to Padme, though, hope it's not something weird Laughing
@Darth Snoopy

Do you really think Vader would mistake his life long love /obsession with... Sabe? That space wizard dude even knew Luke was his son by searching the force and his... feelings. I hope that new "Padme" was just a hallucination, I don't want to see SW repeat Fast and Furious's path that soon and surprise us with secret Skywalkers
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Post by Darth Snoopy on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 4:28 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@Darth Snoopy wrote:@OrionStars
Laughing It could be Sabe or one of the other handmaidens that looked similar to her? Always love any reference to Padme, though, hope it's not something weird Laughing
@Darth Snoopy

Do you really think Vader would mistake his life long love /obsession with... Sabe? That space wizard dude even knew Luke was his son by searching the force and his... feelings. I hope that new "Padme" was just a hallucination, I don't want to see SW repeat Fast and Furious's path that soon and surprise us with secret Skywalkers
@OrionStars

I guess we'll see how the comic turns out. I don't think something like a secret skywalker would be taken well, at all, by any fan - especially with the kind of scenario this would be. It would also shake the foundation of Star Wars in a way that was totally irreparable.


Though I guess, you're right, about the fact that Vader did feel via the force that Luke was his son, but it also helped that Luke was called Skywalker and he still gets confirmation of that from doing research into Padme's death and also the Emperor bringing that up in TESB. There's also the loophole of him not knowing Leia was his daughter, until Episode 6. With Sabe, I was just thinking of the simplest grounded possibility of him, seeing someone who reminds him of Padme - so perhaps this is his initial reaction. Perhaps she is some sort of vision or apparition. Also other than sith stuff or cloning and splicing, I don't think Vader is capable of fathering any further offspring the usual way... Laughing
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