Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by OrionStars on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 6:49 pm

@Darth Snoopy wrote:
@Mila95 wrote:
@special_cases wrote:The thing is..  that Palpatine actually didn't try so much to turn Rey. Rey never had a theme of challenge to be turned by Palpatine. She never had any real seducing moment with Palpy, and because it's famous manipulator Palpy, this fact makes it completely unbelievable.

There is zero significance in Rey rejecting Palpy, as he is undoubtedly ultimately evil and he never tried to seduce her with something she truly wants. She never needed anything from Palpatine and she didn't feel any connection to him.

Palpatine tried and succeed to turn Ben, and at least this plotpoint had some built up in ST. And Palpatine was creative about it.

All these excuses from Carson look ridiculous, especially considering she is a writer. I refuse to believe she is that stupid to believe in this nonsense.
@special_cases

Exactly. At no point does Palpatine offer her anything she actually wants. It's a corpse looking evil guy being openly evil and saying he killed her parents and wants to kill her friends. She had no contact with him before, he didn't influence her when she was a kid and most vulnerable.He basically kills himself so Rey technically didn't have to get her hands dirty either. So like what's the great victory over darkness when it comes to Rey? The narrative protected her so much from everything that she never felt the slightest bit in danger of anything really. Not death, or falling to the dark side or any kind of rejection from friends or the Skywalkers, or any consequences of her powers that weren't exactly under great control in TROS.
@Mila95

That's the issue with the writing in regards to Rey - there were very little to no consequences for her. A protagonist with minimized challenges/obstacles, grows very static, especially when supporting characters are given more interesting circumstances or obstacles. She was also never allowed to slow down, and have any reflective moments, sometimes the quiet scenes are the ones that show the most about a character. TROS had little of that for anyone, the Han and Ben scene, perhaps.
@Darth Snoopy

As other users said, LFL didn't want to "offend" The T.Barr(s) and twitter fake woke crowd, so....
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Post by special_cases on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 7:24 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@special_cases wrote:Also, what did she mean " in the end it's Palpatine who TURNS to the light"???

In the end it was a Skywalker who turned to the light. No one from Palpatines turned anywhere, as one died and another was already on the light side.

Ohhhh, they think that having "bad" surname like Palpatine makes you a Darksider. Then you need to change it in presence of the audience, and boom! you turned to the light. The victory!
@special_cases

It’s such a confused hodge-podge of messages.

“Your heritage doesn’t define you Rey!”

“Oh wait no it totally does, Rey is a Palpatine no matter what and it’s a total victory for a Palpatine to take on the Skywalker mantle”.
@Saracene

Exactly.

Even without Carson's mental gymnastics, the fact that Rey takes another name in the end - as some of kind of high note in the Saga - is ridiculous itself when they wasted the whole movie on "Oh look, she is like Palpatine, oh no, Rey, don't be afraid who you are, oh actually heritage doesn't define anybody... that's WHY it's so IMPORTANT to adopt RIGHT heritage as defining point, so INSPIRING message"

WTF? They wrote themselves in the corner.
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Post by Angharad on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 7:57 pm

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Interesting...

"I recognize that Rey’s decision proved controversial, and I look forward to discussing this with fans for years to come. But my current take is this: The entire Skywalker saga is about Palpatine turning or trying to turn Skywalkers to the dark side. He especially hopes that Rey will prove a worthy vessel for his own power and ambition and become the Skywalkers’ final downfall. But in spite of all his efforts over the course of three generations, he fails. Rey rejects everything about him and takes on the Skywalker mantle and legacy. In the end, it’s a Palpatine who turns to the light, thus handing the Skywalkers their ultimate victory."

Rae Carson

https://www.starwars.com/news/rae-carson-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-interview
@SW_Heroine_Journey

This is the ultimate corporate doublespeak. As I said before... TRoS does not value life itself. What's valuable are names and legacies and appearances.

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 8:44 pm

@OrionStars wrote:
@Darth Snoopy wrote:
@Mila95 wrote:
@special_cases wrote:The thing is..  that Palpatine actually didn't try so much to turn Rey. Rey never had a theme of challenge to be turned by Palpatine. She never had any real seducing moment with Palpy, and because it's famous manipulator Palpy, this fact makes it completely unbelievable.

There is zero significance in Rey rejecting Palpy, as he is undoubtedly ultimately evil and he never tried to seduce her with something she truly wants. She never needed anything from Palpatine and she didn't feel any connection to him.

Palpatine tried and succeed to turn Ben, and at least this plotpoint had some built up in ST. And Palpatine was creative about it.

All these excuses from Carson look ridiculous, especially considering she is a writer. I refuse to believe she is that stupid to believe in this nonsense.
@special_cases

Exactly. At no point does Palpatine offer her anything she actually wants. It's a corpse looking evil guy being openly evil and saying he killed her parents and wants to kill her friends. She had no contact with him before, he didn't influence her when she was a kid and most vulnerable.He basically kills himself so Rey technically didn't have to get her hands dirty either. So like what's the great victory over darkness when it comes to Rey? The narrative protected her so much from everything that she never felt the slightest bit in danger of anything really. Not death, or falling to the dark side or any kind of rejection from friends or the Skywalkers, or any consequences of her powers that weren't exactly under great control in TROS.
@Mila95

That's the issue with the writing in regards to Rey - there were very little to no consequences for her. A protagonist with minimized challenges/obstacles, grows very static, especially when supporting characters are given more interesting circumstances or obstacles. She was also never allowed to slow down, and have any reflective moments, sometimes the quiet scenes are the ones that show the most about a character. TROS had little of that for anyone, the Han and Ben scene, perhaps.
@Darth Snoopy

As other users said, LFL didn't want to "offend" The T.Barr(s) and twitter fake woke crowd, so....
@OrionStars

I love how you placed offend in quotes, because we do have a feeling that the women of LF (if not all, most) agree with T. Barr(s), along with the twitter fake woke crowd. Sigh
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Post by californiagirl on Tue 17 Mar 2020, 11:59 pm

A Reylo who does book reviews on YT started reading the TROS book today, and has to stop every 50 pages because it's.. what it is. She claims Rae Carson is doing her best, but TROS is so bad it isn't salvageable, and therefore bad in every form, and also conflicts with so much of canon. So that's about where people are right now.

Authors have some sway over their novelizations, and I question how much the SG was involved like they were with the TLJ one. But they're also obliged to present the same story, put in deleted scenes, and include the screenwriters' dumb offscreen details and explanations (PalpaClones!). I never thought it would fix everything, nor should it really.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 3:02 am

Seems LF are determined to push the Trio
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/film/2019-04-18/star-wars-new-trilogy-characters-return-rey-finn-poe/
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2490648/how-star-wars-fans-can-learn-what-happens-to-rey-finn-and-poe-after-the-rise-of-skywalker

https://www.small-screen.co.uk/star-wars-poe-dameron-origin-movie-lucasfilm-oscar-isaac/

I doubt if Oscar will return, but for all their brave words both John and Daisy might change their minds if their careers don't exactly take off! Thing is.....will the further adventures of Saint Rey and Her Acolytes actually sell? I'm not saying this as a Ben fan but as someone who saw the SW polls, and Kylo/Ben was far and away the most popular character with audiences.

DLF have made a huge mistake in killing him off to deify Rey. They refuse to admit it. And financially that mistake is going to bite them in the butt.
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Post by unicorn on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 5:37 am

For me, this Rae Carson statement and her point of view is so warped and tone deaf. Sorry, either she is outright lying for marketing reasons, or she is a completely inept writer by agreeing with this crap of a movie script. But again, I will not buy this book, so whatever.

BTW:TLJ is broadcasted in free TV for the first time this weekend in Germany. Boy, have I waited for the TV permiere. Now I´m not going to see it, I can´t. I will not destroy my fond memories for this movie. Only remembering the happy times, how I enjoyed this movie and when I thought there would be a satisfying ending of the saga with SW9 :-(
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 6:01 am

Lord, I know exactly how you feel. I hope one day I'll be able to do what Gwendy85 suggested and pretend that the ST ended with TLJ, but at the moment it's still too fresh - I'm even having trouble enjoying Reylo fics because of how they've ruined her.
Talking of which.....has anyone got a link to the twitter page where the novel excerpts are? I'd like to see them myself.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 12:04 pm

After reading some of the Reylo af excerpts, I decided not to buy the novel. Though undeniably romantic, in my opinion... It’s. Too. Freaking. Sad.

I did check out some article reviews of it today and the writers LOVE to point out the “kiss of gratitude” then question, if it wasn’t romantic, why’d they have to kiss on the mouth? Ugh. Evidently it’s still too ambiguous for some.

@motherofpearl1 Go to @riri19911’s Twitter. She has kindly posted a bunch.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 12:25 pm

Thanks. I've been trying to get all Kylo's scenes from TROS on YouTube for one of the posters here, but they must have taken them down. I'm pretty sure they'll be back however!
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Post by Acritiqua on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 12:46 pm

@Angharad wrote:
@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Interesting...

"I recognize that Rey’s decision proved controversial, and I look forward to discussing this with fans for years to come. But my current take is this: The entire Skywalker saga is about Palpatine turning or trying to turn Skywalkers to the dark side. He especially hopes that Rey will prove a worthy vessel for his own power and ambition and become the Skywalkers’ final downfall. But in spite of all his efforts over the course of three generations, he fails. Rey rejects everything about him and takes on the Skywalker mantle and legacy. In the end, it’s a Palpatine who turns to the light, thus handing the Skywalkers their ultimate victory."

Rae Carson

https://www.starwars.com/news/rae-carson-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-interview
@SW_Heroine_Journey

This is the ultimate corporate doublespeak. As I said before... TRoS does not value life itself. What's valuable are names and legacies and appearances.
@Angharad

Hear! Hear! I should've known as soon as the movie was called The Rise of Skywalker. The name/legacy focus is sickening to me.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 12:54 pm

As Palpatine and his granddaughter essentially killed off the entire Skywalker Solo bloodline, I'm very sorry Rae but there is nothing hopeful about this film.
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Post by unicorn on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 2:18 pm

In the end, it’s a Palpatine who turns to the light, thus handing the Skywalkers their ultimate victory.

Pffff, the "ultimate victory" would have been to let survive the last real Skywalker and let him help to defeat Palpatine for good and in person, instead of misusing him only to revive this shrivelled devil unvoluntary with his powers and throwing him then in a pit.
That´s a bad joke, not a victory.

It´s indeed everything about the "name" and nothing else, how hollow and meaningless. What´s in a name?
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Post by Moonlight13 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 2:39 pm

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 3:17 pm

@Moonlight13

People are having a riot with this, it's great. I thought it wouldn't come out at all. Little "sweet but chaotic" (as they say in the description) Ben just wanted to be like Han. Some parts of LF get it, and are allowed to portray him in that way, and others aren't.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 3:41 pm

yeah, LFL is so bipolar with this character.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 3:59 pm

I'm inclined to believe not all of them were cool with Kylo's fate.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 4:10 pm

of course not. he's a great character and a legacy that they just threw away. there will be grudge. People working for LFL are no different from fans. They all have their favorites and opinion on movies and how LFL handled SW.Some like it some don't.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 4:35 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@Moonlight13

People are having a riot with this, it's great. I thought it wouldn't come out at all. Little "sweet but chaotic" (as they say in the description) Ben just wanted to be like Han. Some parts of LF get it, and are allowed to portray him in that way, and others aren't.
@californiagirl
Same here. I thought it would never come out. I was surprised when I saw it. Laughing
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 18 Mar 2020, 6:01 pm

So there's some parts of the novel that, along with the pit being an entrance to the world between worlds, and the VD vergences stuff, that are making people believe Ben Solo is alive. This is the reviewer I mentioned yesterday, she finally finished the book and hated it. But it did yield things like this. So Ben dying was a deliberate step towards some future atonement? I'm confused.

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 32 Scree721
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 3:11 am

Once again, you have to buy 'extras' in order to find out even a morsel of hope. I suspect DLF have gotten Rae Carson to include this because of the furore surrounding TROS.

Meanwhile....https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XG2EQTn3Q5Y
I guess they're not making a secret of who's story this really is.

Still,it could be worse. I saw one on twitter recently which didn't even show Adam at all.
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Post by MaddieDove on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 4:49 am

@Moonlight13

This made me smile, which is a rare thing for SW to do to me lately! Sad this is the only way to see what I've wanted for so long - Ben at the helm of the Falcon!! That sweet, poor boy!
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Post by unicorn on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 5:59 am

Once again, you have to buy 'extras' in order to find out even a morsel of hope

Hope or false hope, that´s the question. For me it´s evidence or nothing, otherwise I´m out.
No more money for DLF, sorry.

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Post by special_cases on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 7:12 am

I don't see anything as an evidence, I personally just always saw Ben's death as cop out. The powers behind this decision wanted to leave a possibility of everybody's return (including poor Palpy) and refused to commit to ANYTHING in the end of this story. They will NEVER confirm anything important before the decision for the future project will be made. Greediness and cowardice. To leave people on the hook and never take a reponsibility for any creative decisions are their first priorities.
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Post by Atenais on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 8:34 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:After reading some of the Reylo af excerpts, I decided not to buy the novel. Though undeniably romantic, in my opinion... It’s. Too. Freaking. Sad.

I did check out some article reviews of it today and the writers LOVE to point out the “kiss of gratitude” then question, if it wasn’t romantic, why’d they have to kiss on the mouth? Ugh. Evidently it’s still too ambiguous for some.

@motherofpearl1 Go to @riri19911’s Twitter. She has kindly posted a bunch.
@Cowgirlsamurai

I'm not surprised. The “kiss of gratitude” wasn't a random choice, it was there to make some people doubt. It's their eternal crusade to let everybody happy.

@californiagirl wrote:A Reylo who does book reviews on YT started reading the TROS book today, and has to stop every 50 pages because it's.. what it is. She claims Rae Carson is doing her best, but TROS is so bad it isn't salvageable, and therefore bad in every form, and also conflicts with so much of canon. So that's about where people are right now.

Authors have some sway over their novelizations, and I question how much the SG was involved like they were with the TLJ one. But they're also obliged to present the same story, put in deleted scenes, and include the screenwriters' dumb offscreen details and explanations (PalpaClones!). I never thought it would fix everything, nor should it really.
@californiagirl

I don't understand why people thought the novel would make things better. The movie was terrible, how to save that? Not even Shakespeare could. lol
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