Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 9:06 am

At the end of the day the writer has still got to follow the script of the film. And the script was.....🤬.
I'm a Reylo but mostly I'm a Ben fan. And it's not just me. Post TLJ all critics could talk about was the on screen chemistry between Rey and Kylo. Their relationship was the most memorable thing about the ST. And instead of pushing it Abrams and Terrio kept shoving the Trio at us. Poe should have been a background character, the General in charge of the Resistance. Finn had his own story arc. But they were secondary characters, and it has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the actors. And frankly they treated the Asian actress appallingly.

They've made a terrible mistake with TROS. It's done it's entire cast no good at all. And DLFs refusal to admit that mistake will have bad repercussions for them.
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Post by BB-Rey on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 10:42 am



In case anyone wanted to watch before it's gone. The full feature length BTS documentary.
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Post by Birdwoman on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 1:33 pm

My husband finally watched TROS yesterday while we are sheltering in place. He thought I was joking about how bad the movie was....he kept saying what happened? This movie is so bad. He also thought the fact that Ben died right after kissing Rey was just ridiculous.
For me, this is the second time I watched it. It didn't improve for me but I did find things to snark on. I posted on facebook that TROS is a cross between the tv show: My Ghost Story and Star Wars.
About the book, Rae Carson did not have much to work with at all. I read the reylo parts and she did ok with that.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 2:40 pm

I don't blame Carson, if I was an author I'd cringe having to adapt such as disaster. I don't blame any of the cast.

They only people I blame are LF.
Now when I think of Rey all I can think of is this song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVr2hbE6aW0
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Post by californiagirl on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 7:21 pm

People who have seen the documentary say that there's a really significant amount of stuff that was cut from TROS, which makes the absence of deleted scenes even stranger. The whole thing with the knife was made up on set, and how it lined up with the DS. Another person wanted the mcguffin to be a scroll instead of the knife. No wonder that whole part of the plot was was muddled. Apparently there's even a part where they talk about how Ochi's ship had been there for 30 years even though Rey's parents had died only like half that length of time before.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 19 Mar 2020, 11:53 pm

I've heard they're publishing three more comics featuring he Trio, I don't know if they'll be ongoing or just a limited series.

I've just bought TROKR on kindle, and it's amazing! I absolutely despise For, however. She believed the worst of Ben because she wanted to.
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Post by californiagirl on Fri 20 Mar 2020, 3:20 am

I think the trio comics are for kids. Young Ben might be deemed too dark and depressing for them, thus the Marvel Kylo comic. Is the whole thing available as one release? Because I saw the all-in-one version comes out in May.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 20 Mar 2020, 4:26 am

The Kylo comic is released in trade paperback in May, I believe.

One thing makes me sad.....the artwork for the TROS comic adaptation is beautiful, but I don't think I'll buy it. First time ever with SW.

I honestly wonder how they'll do the junior graphic novel and prose book, because whatever way you look at it, it's pretty depressing for kids.
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Post by DeeBee on Fri 20 Mar 2020, 5:13 am

Why put Rose on a cover?!
A reminder that she was even in the movie at all?!
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 33 319a6a10

I’ll take a squiz when this comes out, but only because I don’t have to give DLF any more of my money.

I can see why some people cling to a hope that Ben will return, but for me- I don’t see any reason to hope for it. Other than the fact that I want it, all other evidence points to DLF flirting with the idea to tease fans, but not following through.
I’ve become very cynical of what motivates the company- I no longer can believe they actually care about the story or any of the characters.
I see BTS stuff teased in the doco as a marketing strategy- let’s get a rumour started about deleted scenes!  Let’s stimulate debate, controversy, doubts. Don’t tell an actual story, just hint at one, throw in the word ‘skywalker’ and the rest wont matter...
I have no confidence in DLF being able to do Ben Solo stories, or Rey stories which would be satisfying or of interesting to me.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 20 Mar 2020, 5:37 am

My sentiments exactly, they seem to find our dismay at Ben's fate amusing at the moment.
But.....I really think they might just have second thoughts once they realise how much money they've lost. The Kylo Ren comic has sold so well they're going to second and even third printing. Their own poll revealed he's the most popular character in the ST.
I'm just curious to see how well any of the Trio merchandise sells.
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Post by unicorn on Fri 20 Mar 2020, 1:37 pm

@DeeBee

My thoughts as well.
They have really lost me. Their teasing and spreading of false hopes does not longer work im my case, I´m not hooked anymore.

Maybe if their Trio comics fail and are a monetary disappointment, they will understand their mistake. Money resp. the loss of it is the only language they understand.
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Post by Angharad on Sun 22 Mar 2020, 10:59 pm

https://twitter.com/jannahskywalker/status/1241923137643491328

"The reason the Mary Sue argument has always fallen flat with Rey is because Rey is stunted by her purity not her power. Her power was just an easy thing for fan boys to fixate on. It’s not power that makes Rey’s characterization flawed. It’s the never really challenged purity."

This tweet sums up in just three sentences everything that is wrong with the conception and execution of Rey's character.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 2:59 am

You know, the worse thing is, DLF refuse to accept that they c***** up.

Years ago I remember the late Barry Norman jokingly saying that a film he reviewed would 'have been great if it wasn't so long'.
The director agreed with him and released an edited version.
Fans of X Men's Rogue were disappointed when her only scene was edited from Days of Future Past.
Bryan Singer released a dvd version with the scene included.

A lot of SW fans are convinced the end of TROS was changed because it is so awful! And not just because of Ben's fate but because it was so poorly done.
DLF knew they broke a lot of hearts, but according to Abrams it's a 'fun'ending.

This film was a complete mess, but it wouldn't have done them any harm to release two dvd versions, the theatrical one and one with a HEA. If they really did not shoot an alternative ending then they could have either:
Called Adam back for reshoots
Or CGId Ben Solo on Tattooine with Rey at the end - come on folks, I've seen fan edits that were better than TROS's version of Leia, it wouldn't have been so hard to do.

The filmmakers were aware of Kylo/Ben's popularity long before TROS was released. They must have known how upset a lot of viewers would be. If they really wanted the film to be Rey's story they could have released a separate version - it's been done before. But no. Not even the disappointment of so many, especially children, at Christmas, made any difference to them. They stubbornly went ahead with, to quote Kasiopeia, that 'horrible, cynical ending'. They've refused to release a different edit on dvd. Which would have made them more money.
They are pushing the Trio in other merchandising despite the immense popularity of the TROKR and the failure to sell of the Poe Dameron comic. They are so full of their self importance they ignore that the actor who was praised by critics and fans, and who they shunted aside to satisfy the fan**** of their director and third rate writer, as since been twice Oscar nominated. They ignore the commercial and critical success of Rian Johnson's latest film, and stand by their decision to retcon his far better movie, again to satisfy a handful of toxic bigots and the writer and director of TROS's fan****.

DLF think they can do no wrong, that people will accept anything they sell because it's Star Wars. But I suspect they are going to find out big time. Yes,, The Mandalorian is great and doing well, but it's a spin off. The heart and soul of Star Wars has always been the Skywalkers and Solos. They've erased them from continuity to promote a tedious, too good to be true usurper and to add insult to injury made her their sworn enemy's grandchild.

Three months later.....and I still can't quite believe what they've done.
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Post by vaderito on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 6:14 am

@Angharad wrote:https://twitter.com/jannahskywalker/status/1241923137643491328

"The reason the Mary Sue argument has always fallen flat with Rey is because Rey is stunted by her purity not her power. Her power was just an easy thing for fan boys to fixate on. It’s not power that makes Rey’s characterization flawed. It’s the never really challenged purity."

This tweet sums up in just three sentences everything that is wrong with the conception and execution of Rey's character.
@Angharad

Amen.

BTW, that comic book cover with faces painted on Rey's face,neck, etc is the ugliest thing I've seen in a while. They look like cabage.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 9:08 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Angharad wrote:https://twitter.com/jannahskywalker/status/1241923137643491328

"The reason the Mary Sue argument has always fallen flat with Rey is because Rey is stunted by her purity not her power. Her power was just an easy thing for fan boys to fixate on. It’s not power that makes Rey’s characterization flawed. It’s the never really challenged purity."

This tweet sums up in just three sentences everything that is wrong with the conception and execution of Rey's character.
@Angharad

Amen.

BTW, that comic book cover with faces painted on Rey's face,neck, etc is the ugliest thing I've seen in a while. They look like cabage.

Do you have aclink to it, v?
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Post by californiagirl on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 9:54 am

I don't realistically think they could have gotten Adam for reshoots during the flood of awards season, or filmed it in February and polished the whole thing with approvals and put it in the final release by March. And CGI would seem just desperate and tacky. We've already endured CGI Tarkin and multiple films with CGI Leia.

Agreed on the Rey's purity thing, it was always hovering under the surface, but never got fully acknowledged. Then they regressed her in TROS. This is one of the reasons (paired with Kylo Ren being Very Much Eternally Eeeeevul) why people didn't believe Reylo existed. The questioning of her power was so overblown and had such double standards, and was so often in bad faith. It's related to the parentage thing, it just got so blown out of proportion, it's like the audience willed those revelations TROS into existence by sheer will and negativity.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 10:15 am

I'm curious as to how the dvd will sell, I suspect the coronavirus lockdown will work in their favour, but we'll have to see.
I have seen a couple of angry comments on line from people who didn't see it in cinemas, bought the digital and now wish they hadn't.
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Post by special_cases on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 11:31 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Angharad wrote:https://twitter.com/jannahskywalker/status/1241923137643491328

"The reason the Mary Sue argument has always fallen flat with Rey is because Rey is stunted by her purity not her power. Her power was just an easy thing for fan boys to fixate on. It’s not power that makes Rey’s characterization flawed. It’s the never really challenged purity."

This tweet sums up in just three sentences everything that is wrong with the conception and execution of Rey's character.
@Angharad

Amen.

BTW, that comic book cover with faces painted on Rey's face,neck, etc is the ugliest thing I've seen in a while. They look like cabage.

Do you have aclink to it, v?
@motherofpearl1

This image:

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 33 319a6a10

I find it ugly too. I also find both hilarious and absurd that there is an allusion that the whole OT trio were mentors to new female protagonist. How many mentors figures Rey should have had? Han in TFA, Luke in TLJ, Leia in TROS. And the most important question: WHAT EXACTLY did she learn AS A PERSON from them? When you're perfect by design, what possibly can you learn from anybody? And how these lessons were relevant for final outcome of her story and the story overall? To always sacrifice yourself? Geee, of course, Rey was never in danger to die.
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Post by vaderito on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 11:48 am

Very true. 3 mentors, no lesson learned, but mentors learned something from her no? Han learend how to bypass dee compressah.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 11:52 am

@special_cases wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Angharad wrote:https://twitter.com/jannahskywalker/status/1241923137643491328

"The reason the Mary Sue argument has always fallen flat with Rey is because Rey is stunted by her purity not her power. Her power was just an easy thing for fan boys to fixate on. It’s not power that makes Rey’s characterization flawed. It’s the never really challenged purity."

This tweet sums up in just three sentences everything that is wrong with the conception and execution of Rey's character.
@Angharad

Amen.

BTW, that comic book cover with faces painted on Rey's face,neck, etc is the ugliest thing I've seen in a while. They look like cabage.

Do you have aclink to it, v?
@motherofpearl1

This image:

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 33 319a6a10

I find it ugly too. I also find both hilarious and absurd that there is an allusion that the whole OT trio were mentors to new female protagonist. How many mentors figures Rey should have had? Han in TFA, Luke in TLJ, Leia in TROS. And the most important question: WHAT EXACTLY did she learn AS A PERSON from them? When you're perfect by design, what possibly can you learn from anybody? And how these lessons were relevant for final outcome of her story and the story overall? To always sacrifice yourself? Geee, of course, Rey was never in danger to die.

It practically shrieks that when her body never vanished into the Force.
My brother is a gay man who loves and admires women. His chosen religion is Wicca because it embraces feminicity. But he was genuinely disappointed in TROS. He was, as a man, bewildered why they seemed to preach that romance is a bad thing and women should not have a relationship. He saw Rey as a terrible example because she wasn't real....she was far too good to be true. He was disgusted at the return to the 'old Jedi way'. :after the prequels my bro wanted to see a new Jedi order that was kinder and more accepting (he never forgave Obi Wan for leaving Anakin to die in agony).

But most of all, he summed up how I feel about it - this should have been Ben's story, not Rey's. Or at least, the story of both of them. In the first two films it genuinely seemed like that was the direction they were headed in, Rey, a lightsider with darkness in her, and Kylo, a darksider with light in him.
I thought they would achieve the balance of the Force between them.
Instead, apparently the'balance' was within Rey. Her ascention from mere mortal to Force goddess is complete. And it's not a bit satisfying.
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Post by Saracene on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 3:20 pm

The idea that Rey and Ben were dual protagonists didn’t really arise until TLJ, and even Rian put it as “almost like dual protagonists”, which is like saying “almost but not quite”. It’s easy to forget how much TLJ impacted everyone’s view of Kylo, I think we were just lucky that we got a writer/director who clearly had a lot of affinity for his character. JJ I think was really proud of Kylo as a character, but his heart is really with the heroes and good guys.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 3:43 pm

Unfortunately his 'heroes' combined were less interesting than the so called'villain'.
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Post by Moonjump05 on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 4:06 pm

As an unrepentant villain fan I've gotta just shrug when bland heroes are the favorite. Especially when the interesting villain is pushed aside for mediocrety.
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Post by Saracene on Mon 23 Mar 2020, 4:18 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Unfortunately his 'heroes' combined were less interesting than the so called'villain'.
@motherofpearl1

Yeah that’s the problem. A villain/antagonist/anti-hero being the most popular/interesting character in the story is nothing new. But people still cared about the OT trio, Harry, Hermione and Ron, the Fellowship of the Ring, Buffy and her friends, etc. etc. The big problem of the ST is that its heroes don’t work as individual characters or as a trio.
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