Glitch in the Matrix: Scenes and Phrases Occurring Twice in the Film and Their Possible Significance

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Post by snufkin on Sat 26 May 2018, 2:38 pm

Bumping up because if you’ve seen Solo, it’s full of themes and moments which echo the ST. And I think it’s fair to argue that the Golden dice = the legacy saber
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 26 May 2018, 2:49 pm

@snufkin wrote:Bumping up because if you’ve seen Solo, it’s full of themes and moments which echo the ST. And I think it’s fair to argue that the Golden dice = the legacy saber
@snufkin

Solo is absolutely chock full of information under the guise of a fun ride. I can't wait to see it again so that I can analyze the s*** out of it.
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Post by snufkin on Sat 26 May 2018, 3:04 pm

@SoloSideCousin It’s a very deliberate choice IMO that TLJ ends with the dice passing from Luke to Leia to Ben and vanishing and then we end with Rey holding the broken saber. The dice will be back in IX
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Post by rawpowah on Sat 26 May 2018, 3:40 pm

After watching Solo, I better see Ben flying the Falcon and receiving the dice in Episode IX.

I am doing a prequel rewatch now, and I also want Ben to get the Skywalker droids. R2 and 3PO are wasted in the Resistance.

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 26 May 2018, 4:27 pm

@rawpowah wrote:After watching Solo, I better see Ben flying the Falcon and receiving the dice in Episode IX.

I am doing a prequel rewatch now, and I also want Ben to get the Skywalker droids. R2 and 3PO are wasted in the Resistance.

@rawpowah

Seriously! And think about it, Ben should be friends, or at least have a history of friendship, with R2 and Threepio. Also, R2 told off Luke in TLJ. It might not have been just about jilting Leia. He might have also been upset with how Luke effed up with Ben.
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Post by Kylo Rey on Sat 26 May 2018, 5:46 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:After watching Solo, I better see Ben flying the Falcon and receiving the dice in Episode IX.

I am doing a prequel rewatch now, and I also want Ben to get the Skywalker droids. R2 and 3PO are wasted in the Resistance.

@rawpowah

Seriously! And think about it, Ben should be friends, or at least have a history of friendship, with R2 and Threepio. Also, R2 told off Luke in TLJ. It might not have been just about jilting Leia. He might have also been upset with how Luke effed up with Ben.
@SoloSideCousin

I <3 R2 to bits, and yeah, he must have spent a lot of time with Ben given his training at Uncle Luke's Jedi Temple.
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Post by snufkin on Sat 26 May 2018, 6:37 pm

I’m sure the droids will be in there, but based on two movies I don’t see any significant underlying themes being carried by them the way you do with the dice, saber, and some of the repeating/mirroring themes and phrases.
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Post by DeeBee on Sat 26 May 2018, 7:23 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Bumping up because if you’ve seen Solo, it’s full of themes and moments which echo the ST. And I think it’s fair to argue that the Golden dice = the legacy saber
@snufkin

Solo is absolutely chock full of information under the guise of a fun ride. I can't wait to see it again so that I can analyze the s*** out of it.
@SoloSideCousin
Hear hear! I love how you put this. so true!
how long do we wait before we don't need to spoilerise Solo content?

@rawpowah wrote:After watching Solo, I better see Ben flying the Falcon and receiving the dice in Episode IX.

I am doing a prequel rewatch now, and I also want Ben to get the Skywalker droids. R2 and 3PO are wasted in the Resistance.

@rawpowah

Hear hear! Someone has to go back to Ahch-to to collect the dice the fish nuns have put into storage! It was such a challenge filming there though that I wonder if this might happen off screen.

I agree, Ben in the MF with the dice would be a wonderful conclusion to that side of the story. Maybe Ben will find a secret panel somewhere that he stored his toy spaceships in or something. Maybe a little resistance doll not unlike Rey had. lol.

Yeah R2 and C3PO are central to the story - even if they have been under utilised in the ST thanks to BB-8. R2 knows soooooo much and has seen all the major events unfold.. it's crazy to think that Anakin built C3PO and that his grandson - or great grandchildren would still be utilising him. nice! JJ seemed focused on his new addition BB-8, but I think RJ and his use of R2 will have prompted JJ to not forget that legacy.

edited to add: Here's an article about Solo Easter Eggs thought I'd pass on: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/05/solo-star-wars-easter-eggs-callbacks-references-golden-dice-kessel-run-lando


Last edited by DeeBee on Sat 26 May 2018, 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added comment)
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Post by rawpowah on Sun 27 May 2018, 3:34 am

@DeeBee I'm pretty sure the dice is in the Falcon.
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Post by DeeBee on Sun 27 May 2018, 10:57 pm

@rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee I'm pretty sure the dice is in the Falcon.
@rawpowah
Hiya rawpowah, yeah I was thinking they are on Ahch-to. You got me thinking though.. I went for a little explore!
I've changed my mind. I think at this point we don't know if they are on Ahch-to or if Luke returned them to the MF.

I was initially thinking they were still with Luke on Ahch-to because we saw him take them, and then he projected them with himself to crait. But.. then I realised - he also projected Anakin's lightsaber and he didn't have that - so Luke did not have to have the dice with him to project them. So this is no proof at all. lol.
I had a quick run through of TLJ and literally slowed down every scene in which we see the cockpit after Luke takes the dice - and at no point do we see the roof of the cockpit where they would hang if Luke had returned them. So we can't say they are there, and nor can we say they are missing! Seeing how close the shots came to reveal this part of the ship- I think it is a deliberate choice not to show it.
I can't even know for sure if Luke ever took them off the MF in the first place. but it seems they will show up at a significant moment for a reveal.

I checked the expanded novelisation, nothing in there adds anything between Luke taking the dice and Luke handing the force projection dice to Leia on Crait. [I have it as a pdf so can do a quick word search]

So far the databank offers no clues that I can find either - it mentions the dice 3 times (I did a site search - I cheat). none tell us where the actual physical dice ended up..

Anyone have any information about the dice that can shed more light on this?
anything in the visual dictionary? or in the junior novelisation? anyone?
Or if anyone sees anything about this in the comic adaption can you let us know please?

What's everyone thinking?  bye!
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Tue 29 May 2018, 10:27 am

@rawpowah wrote:After watching Solo, I better see Ben flying the Falcon and receiving the dice in Episode IX.

I am doing a prequel rewatch now, and I also want Ben to get the Skywalker droids. R2 and 3PO are wasted in the Resistance.

@rawpowah

Agree!  I'm all over the map with how THE scene of Ben flying the MF should proceed.  I cannot decide which one I prefer:  Ben piloting and Rey is the co-pilot because Chewie is back at Kashyyyk?  Or Rey is the pilot and Ben the co-pilot (same situation with Chewie)?  Likewise, Ben and Rey are piloting (she is sitting on his lap)*, and Chewie is the co-pilot?

*Headcannon tie in, and if it does not occur - no biggie.  But when I heard that Black Diamond is the nickname for IX, I immediately thought of the Blue Diamond with Titanic.  I don't believe there will be exact scene copies, yet beats (by chance that mention caused anyone to feel sad - to me, the movie does have a happily ever after ending for the couple.  That being said, I want Ben to live, yet I'll survive a Beauty and the Beast fake death.)  Anyway, so the infamous scene with Rose and Jack ('I'm flying!')  Although they are both standing, I think perhaps that will be an inspiration for a scene where they are both piloting the MF, and Rey is sitting on his lap.  Their hands clasped, as they both engage the pilot side of the MF... squee!

And...if JJ wants to be inspired by the making love scene in Titanic, I'm all for the too!  Very Happy
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Post by Mielikki on Tue 29 May 2018, 11:09 am

@SW_Heroine_Journey

I can imagine them getting it on in a First Order hangar while being hunted by Hux and his cronies with the scene cutting to a hand print on the inside of a steamy Tie Fighter window. I wonder if there’s a fanfic out there.

On a bit more serious note, I doubt working titles have anything to do with the actual storyline in SW. It would be too risky to make it even slightly related to the actual title and plot. Space Bear, Blue Harvest, Jar-Jar’s Great Adventure, Foodles... They’re all over the place and have no connection whatsoever.

Ps: I’d rather see Ben and Chewie fly with Rey gunning. It would warm my heart.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 29 May 2018, 11:43 am

Uh, not really sure why people have jumped on this thread to talk about what they’d love to see in IX but if you scroll back and read the original post from 2016 after TFA came out, it’s about specific phrases and motifs which keep repeating and underlying the ST themes. Things like the dice being shown in Solo and TLJ at specific moments and repeating phrases which underline the themes of family and are foreshadowing. NOT “I would like to see or this needs to be in IX.” Sorry for being grouchy but this is one of the longest running and most interesting parts of the ST discussions here and there are how many other speculation threads on here?
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Post by snufkin on Wed 29 May 2019, 2:22 am

Bumping up because of Easter Eggs linking the movies back and forth between one another.

IDK who else has had the soundtrack grab their attention now that Solo is on Netflix, but I've had pieces of it stuck in my head ever since noticing it while watching on headphones. And something else about connections between it and the ST grabbed me, the motif for Crimson Dawn, has elements of Snoke's theme.



It's played when Enfys Nest explains how Crimson Dawn/the Five Syndicates came to be, how her mother formed the Cloud Riders to fight against them, and then the group (including Warwick Davis as an older version of his TPM character) unmask to proclaim themselves as allies against the syndicates and the Empire. It's played again when we see Vos turn on Qi'ra and the parallel to the Throne Room of "I would give up something I love to prove my loyalty," which isn't just Han in that moment but you know Ben in the future being told to kill both Han and Rey*.  But when it's used with the Cloud Riders, I'm fully expecting that for what the Resistance becomes  - a coalition of different groups/worlds fighting back together against the First Order and the syndicates behind it.  But having elements of Snoke's theme is interesting and I've seen one Reddit discussion about maybe Snoke's back story is that he was part of Crimson Dawn/the Five Syndicates since we know from Bloodline that the syndicates were funding the First Order.

* One thing I noticed which I doubt is a coincidence, both Vos and Snoke use the word weakness to describe Qi'ra's feelings for Han ("Turns out that Qi'ra has a weak spot for you.") and Ben's feelings for Rey ("Have you detected a weakness in my apprentice?")  Also that Enfys Nest says "do you know who that pack of animals became?" which sounds an awful lot like Maz's "they're here, those beasts." When it's the same writer between two films who was also an advisor on another film in a series of films with repeating motifs in the language used in the scripts, it's likely not a coincidence.
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