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ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 5

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Post by MissG on Tue 10 May 2016, 7:58 pm

Kessel89 wrote:
@MissG wrote:Don't remember seeing this one before. Is this real?

ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 5 - Page 40 Ren-rey-star-wars-kylo-Favim.com-3814819

http://favim.com/image/3814819/

In any case seeing this moment  on a picture makes me see just how obvious Reylo would have been if they decided to leave it in the movie the way it was in the novel. Seriously though if he had no mask on I'd be sure he is about to kiss her.
@MissG

This is fan made (not real) from what I've heard.
@Kessel89

Thank you, I thought that's the case, but it's nice to have a visual representation for those scenes at least I suppose.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:00 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.
@snufkin

Palp is stupid here, actually. Assuming GL always had the Rule of the Two on his mind, Vader's proposal raises eye-brows. There are three of them so who gets the boot? One Master, One Apprentice, no more, no less.

But yeah, totally. When Vader says "he'll join us or die" it's like "by the grace of your training, I will not be seduced". They actually split ESB scene in two in TFA, so part where Vader tries to avert Luke's destruction by offering to turn him ("he's just a boy") happens after interrogation in TFA, where Kylo downplays Rey's importance ("scavenger"). That's more prominent in novelization.

But yes, Vader definitely knew who Luke was before Palp told him and Kylo likely saw Rey in his vision ("What girl?" precedes "There's been an awakening, have you felt it?")



Are you gonna watch ROTJ this weekend with the movie club and than TFA next weekend?
@vaderito

Sure I'll watch both! At least RotJ, it's always funny seeing the redwood forests because it's so recognizable to anybody from NorCal or Oregon (though the Rebels would be getting shot at by pot farmers, not goofing around with Ewoks).

The whole ESB has to be a bit of an homage to silent movies like Nosferatu with the Emperor's image. Definitely way too dumb/trusting to think that they'll just convince Luke that he wants to be assistant regional vice manager or something. Ha, I just noticed from this clip that they hit the word boy the same way they hit the word girl. Though not with the same drawn out contempt of Hux when he busts in on KR getting reamed in the principle's office. Also Vader, what a dumbass! He goes through all of that to get Luke and meanwhile has no clue that Leia's his other kid.
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Post by vaderito on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:09 pm

@snufkin wrote:

Sure I'll watch both! At least RotJ, it's always funny seeing the redwood forests because it's so recognizable to anybody from NorCal or Oregon (though the Rebels would be getting shot at by pot farmers, not goofing around with Ewoks).

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

The whole ESB has to be a bit of an homage to silent movies like Nosferatu with the Emperor's image. Definitely way too dumb/trusting to think that they'll just convince Luke that he wants to be assistant regional vice manager or something.

Imagine b*tching when regional vice manager wants to slack off, fly around, shoot some wompa rats, and his bosses are, like, no, no you gotta work, bro.

Ha, I just noticed from this clip that they hit the word boy the same way they hit the word girl. Though not with the same drawn out contempt of Hux when he busts in on KR getting reamed in the principle's office. Also Vader, what a dumbass! He goes through all of that to get Luke and meanwhile has no clue that Leia's his other kid.
@snufkin

Chiasmus! And my love for Kylo's principal's office face has no limit. That wistful thinking-about-her look...he's such a kid. That, Marry Me face, Teacher, nerd-off...oh, Kylo.'

LOL, GL making Luke and Leia siblings at the 11th hour really screwed up a lot of characters. Kylo can sense Han who isn't even FS, but his omni powerful grandpa couldn't sense FS Leia who could sense Luke even though she wasn't a powerful FS. Plot hole. But, yeah, you are so right. vader looks dumb as hell here. he had a Skywalker in his hand twice and couldn't sense sith.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:12 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.
@snufkin

Palp is stupid here, actually. Assuming GL always had the Rule of the Two on his mind, Vader's proposal raises eye-brows. There are three of them so who gets the boot? One Master, One Apprentice, no more, no less.

But yeah, totally. When Vader says "he'll join us or die" it's like "by the grace of your training, I will not be seduced". They actually split ESB scene in two in TFA, so part where Vader tries to avert Luke's destruction by offering to turn him ("he's just a boy") happens after interrogation in TFA, where Kylo downplays Rey's importance ("scavenger"). That's more prominent in novelization.

But yes, Vader definitely knew who Luke was before Palp told him and Kylo likely saw Rey in his vision ("What girl?" precedes "There's been an awakening, have you felt it?")



Are you gonna watch ROTJ this weekend with the movie club and than TFA next weekend?
@vaderito

Sure I'll watch both! At least RotJ, it's always funny seeing the redwood forests because it's so recognizable to anybody from NorCal or Oregon (though the Rebels would be getting shot at by pot farmers, not goofing around with Ewoks).

The whole ESB has to be a bit of an homage to silent movies like Nosferatu with the Emperor's image. Definitely way too dumb/trusting to think that they'll just convince Luke that he wants to be assistant regional vice manager or something. Ha, I just noticed from this clip that they hit the word boy the same way they hit the word girl. Though not with the same drawn out contempt of Hux when he busts in on KR getting reamed in the principle's office. Also Vader, what a dumbass! He goes through all of that to get Luke and meanwhile has no clue that Leia's his other kid.
@snufkin
And Leia would have been much easier to turn to the Dark side, I suspect.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:21 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.
@snufkin

Palp is stupid here, actually. Assuming GL always had the Rule of the Two on his mind, Vader's proposal raises eye-brows. There are three of them so who gets the boot? One Master, One Apprentice, no more, no less.

But yeah, totally. When Vader says "he'll join us or die" it's like "by the grace of your training, I will not be seduced". They actually split ESB scene in two in TFA, so part where Vader tries to avert Luke's destruction by offering to turn him ("he's just a boy") happens after interrogation in TFA, where Kylo downplays Rey's importance ("scavenger"). That's more prominent in novelization.

But yes, Vader definitely knew who Luke was before Palp told him and Kylo likely saw Rey in his vision ("What girl?" precedes "There's been an awakening, have you felt it?")



Are you gonna watch ROTJ this weekend with the movie club and than TFA next weekend?
@vaderito

Sure I'll watch both! At least RotJ, it's always funny seeing the redwood forests because it's so recognizable to anybody from NorCal or Oregon (though the Rebels would be getting shot at by pot farmers, not goofing around with Ewoks).

The whole ESB has to be a bit of an homage to silent movies like Nosferatu with the Emperor's image. Definitely way too dumb/trusting to think that they'll just convince Luke that he wants to be assistant regional vice manager or something. Ha, I just noticed from this clip that they hit the word boy the same way they hit the word girl. Though not with the same drawn out contempt of Hux when he busts in on KR getting reamed in the principle's office. Also Vader, what a dumbass! He goes through all of that to get Luke and meanwhile has no clue that Leia's his other kid.
@snufkin
And Leia would have been much easier to turn to the Dark side, I suspect.
@ISeeAnIsland

I see you have been reading your Bloodline book ;-)
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:24 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.
@snufkin

Palp is stupid here, actually. Assuming GL always had the Rule of the Two on his mind, Vader's proposal raises eye-brows. There are three of them so who gets the boot? One Master, One Apprentice, no more, no less.

But yeah, totally. When Vader says "he'll join us or die" it's like "by the grace of your training, I will not be seduced". They actually split ESB scene in two in TFA, so part where Vader tries to avert Luke's destruction by offering to turn him ("he's just a boy") happens after interrogation in TFA, where Kylo downplays Rey's importance ("scavenger"). That's more prominent in novelization.

But yes, Vader definitely knew who Luke was before Palp told him and Kylo likely saw Rey in his vision ("What girl?" precedes "There's been an awakening, have you felt it?")



Are you gonna watch ROTJ this weekend with the movie club and than TFA next weekend?
@vaderito

Sure I'll watch both! At least RotJ, it's always funny seeing the redwood forests because it's so recognizable to anybody from NorCal or Oregon (though the Rebels would be getting shot at by pot farmers, not goofing around with Ewoks).

The whole ESB has to be a bit of an homage to silent movies like Nosferatu with the Emperor's image. Definitely way too dumb/trusting to think that they'll just convince Luke that he wants to be assistant regional vice manager or something. Ha, I just noticed from this clip that they hit the word boy the same way they hit the word girl. Though not with the same drawn out contempt of Hux when he busts in on KR getting reamed in the principle's office. Also Vader, what a dumbass! He goes through all of that to get Luke and meanwhile has no clue that Leia's his other kid.
@snufkin
And Leia would have been much easier to turn to the Dark side, I suspect.
@ISeeAnIsland

I see you have been reading your Bloodline book ;-)
@SoloSideCousin

Yes, I have! I'm just loving Leia's characterization in it.
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Post by IoJovi on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:26 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Also that's some foreshadowing stealing the Vader meets with the Emperor scene from the ESB about killing Luke* where Snoke is worried about Luke returning and the "rise of the new Jedi." Because he's basically talking about Luke and Rey coming together, which we know is going to happen. So if Luke's the one being saved, that put KR on the path of breaking from Snoke.

* and this is where Vader starts to have the idea of doing an end run w/his kid, which eventually leads to him doing the right thing because of his love for his kid. "The New Jedi" = Rey is kinda like how "There is another" = Leia.
@snufkin

Palp is stupid here, actually. Assuming GL always had the Rule of the Two on his mind, Vader's proposal raises eye-brows. There are three of them so who gets the boot? One Master, One Apprentice, no more, no less.

But yeah, totally. When Vader says "he'll join us or die" it's like "by the grace of your training, I will not be seduced". They actually split ESB scene in two in TFA, so part where Vader tries to avert Luke's destruction by offering to turn him ("he's just a boy") happens after interrogation in TFA, where Kylo downplays Rey's importance ("scavenger"). That's more prominent in novelization.

But yes, Vader definitely knew who Luke was before Palp told him and Kylo likely saw Rey in his vision ("What girl?" precedes "There's been an awakening, have you felt it?")



Are you gonna watch ROTJ this weekend with the movie club and than TFA next weekend?
@vaderito

Sure I'll watch both! At least RotJ, it's always funny seeing the redwood forests because it's so recognizable to anybody from NorCal or Oregon (though the Rebels would be getting shot at by pot farmers, not goofing around with Ewoks).

The whole ESB has to be a bit of an homage to silent movies like Nosferatu with the Emperor's image. Definitely way too dumb/trusting to think that they'll just convince Luke that he wants to be assistant regional vice manager or something. Ha, I just noticed from this clip that they hit the word boy the same way they hit the word girl. Though not with the same drawn out contempt of Hux when he busts in on KR getting reamed in the principle's office. Also Vader, what a dumbass! He goes through all of that to get Luke and meanwhile has no clue that Leia's his other kid.
@snufkin
And Leia would have been much easier to turn to the Dark side, I suspect.
@ISeeAnIsland

I see you have been reading your Bloodline book ;-)
@SoloSideCousin

Yes, I have! I'm just loving Leia's characterization in it.
@ISeeAnIsland

This book made me fall in love with Leia all over again. It definitely didn't make it subtle as to which parent Ben got his temper from!

Her subtle use of the Force through the book was amazing. I loved the scene in the casino with Leia cleaning house.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 10 May 2016, 9:28 pm

@ISeeAnIsland

The characterization is fantastic. Perfectly imperfect.
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Post by snufkin on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:08 pm

@ISeeAnIsland and @vaderito No kidding Vader's a dumbass not able to sense his biological daughter, who's inherited his temper and darker tendencies. Not to mention being the smartest twig in that family tree. She wouldn't have been all super chill Jeff Lebowski like Luke was when he faced the Emperor. I will put the Leia book on the waitlist at my library thanks to @solosidecousin's recomendation, but damn isn't that typical - the great man ignores his daughter in favor of the son. It's like Henry the VIII obsessing over siring a son & ignoring Elizabeth I.

@vaderito, also the Emperor's a dumbass for also not noticing Leia. Or maybe she's just more stealth about it versus Luke broadcasting it everywhere.


Last edited by snufkin on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mana on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:17 pm

I don't think Leia was originally meant to be Vaders daughter...so I understand the disconnect in ANH and ESB between them
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Post by Sylvia Snow on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:21 pm

@Mana wrote:I don't think Leia was originally meant to be Vaders daughter...so I understand the disconnect in ANH and ESB between them
@Mana

Yes, Luke and Leia were supposed to be the end game but for some reason, I believe Lucas change to Leia and Han and making her Luke's sister at the last minute. Does anyone know why did he do that?
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Post by snufkin on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:26 pm

@Sylvia Snow wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't think Leia was originally meant to be Vaders daughter...so I understand the disconnect in ANH and ESB between them
@Mana

Yes, Luke and Leia were supposed to be the end game but for some reason, I believe Lucas change to Leia and Han and making her Luke's sister at the last minute. Does anyone know why did he do that?
@Sylvia Snow

The original screenplay by Leigh Brackett was going to reveal that Luke had a twin sister who would be introduced in the 3rd movie. It sounds like they just decided it'd be easier to make it be Leia, especially given the chemistry with Han.

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2010/05/15/early-draft-of-empire-strikes-back-reveals-alternate-star-wars-universe
Only identified as "Master Skywalker," Luke's dad gives him the generic speech about how proud he is of the young hero. He also reveals that Luke has a twin sister, although it's not Leia, but a girl named Nellith who's never mentioned again in the story. I'm guessing Brackett was leaving that for the third film. The scene ends with Minch, Ben, and Skywalker "knighting" Luke with their lightsabers, effectively awarding him the title of Jedi, although he must face one final test in order to be a true member of the Order: defeat Vader.
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Post by Mana on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:29 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Sylvia Snow wrote:
@Mana wrote:I don't think Leia was originally meant to be Vaders daughter...so I understand the disconnect in ANH and ESB between them
@Mana

Yes, Luke and Leia were supposed to be the end game but for some reason, I believe Lucas change to Leia and Han and making her Luke's sister at the last minute. Does anyone know why did he do that?
@Sylvia Snow

The original screenplay by Leigh Brackett was going to reveal that Luke had a twin sister who would be introduced in the 3rd movie. It sounds like they just decided it'd be easier to make it be Leia, especially given the chemistry with Han.

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2010/05/15/early-draft-of-empire-strikes-back-reveals-alternate-star-wars-universe
Only identified as "Master Skywalker," Luke's dad gives him the generic speech about how proud he is of the young hero. He also reveals that Luke has a twin sister, although it's not Leia, but a girl named Nellith who's never mentioned again in the story. I'm guessing Brackett was leaving that for the third film. The scene ends with Minch, Ben, and Skywalker "knighting" Luke with their lightsabers, effectively awarding him the title of Jedi, although he must face one final test in order to be a true member of the Order: defeat Vader.
@snufkin

Yeah..Luke was meant to have a sister, but it was not Leia. After the events of ROTJ, he was supposed to go looking for her or something..
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Post by Darth Dementor on Tue 10 May 2016, 10:58 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:I was thinking about this the other day.
If Kylo idolizes Vader so much...
And Vader loved/died for Luke...
Luke is the remaining son of Vader...

Why would Kylo want to kill him if he loves Vader so much?
Certainly not finishing what Vader "started".

Does he think the ghost of Vader would love him if he killed his son?
@Xylo Ren

My guess,  right now, by Kylo finishing what Darth Vader started? Turn Luke to the Dark Side.  It's what Vader originally tried to do when he sensed his powers.   If not Luke, then the next most powerful Jedi...Rey.  Shocked  Confus

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Post by Sylvia Snow on Tue 10 May 2016, 11:34 pm

I wonders if Finn's mark can be considered with the Mark of Cain. Although he did not killed a fellow StormTrooper later on in the movie, but he's already marked from the beginning as a fugitive and now a traitor. Kylo can also be considered as a Traitor against his family and in the snow forest, which could be represented for the Ninth circle of Hell, Treachery, where Finn, who betrayed the FO being scared by Kylo who is currently belong to the FO, on the back as a way to repentance himself and Kylo in turn being wounded and the scar on his face also a way for him to do repenting for his crimes against his own blood by Rey. Just like King Henry II doing penance by being whipped by the monks in the cathedral where Thomas Becket died. Rey could symbol an angelic figure who carry out the penance
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Post by Saracene on Wed 11 May 2016, 4:05 am

Re: Kylo potentially saving/protecting someone in the future, I can't really imagine it being about anyone else but Rey. Other than the fact that his relationship with Rey is bound to be more important than his relationship with Luke, I don't see why he'd want to save Luke. He might not necessarily want to find Luke to kill him, but even so Luke is a part of the world Kylo cut himself off from. If he simply saves him because he needs something from him, that doesn't have much of an emotional impact IMO, and we already had the tug-of-familial-feelings thing in TFA so I can't see them replaying them and have Kylo be conflicted about his uncle this time around.

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