AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

@Xylo Ren wrote:Am I the only one that doesn't like the idea that his/Vader's mask holds a dark energy or power that's corrupting him?

It's just a big bite to chew and I'm not sure the audience would go for it or get it. I also don't want to see something like demonic possession in Star Wars.

That'd be too much.

@panki wrote:

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@panki wrote:Have we discussed this....

Spoiler:

1. Ben Solo (that is his name) is born on Chandrila in Hanna City. He hasn't been named after anyone specific. He was conceived under the trees of Endor.Rumors abound regarding Leia's pregnancy- some say it was hard and lasted 3 days, some say it was easy because Leia meditated.....some day Luke was there briefly, some say he was absent....Chewie wasn't there, he was on Kashyyk.....Lando brought Ben a Tooka doll.

2. Chewie's son is called Waroo.

3. Han is jealous of Leia's force connection to Ben...but when Ben cries and Han holds him, they bond and he stops crying.

4. Rax is dead. Sloane is now leading the imperial remnants with Armitage Hux to the Unknown Regions. They come across strange creatures and avoid superstorms. They lose power due to a magnetic burst of mysterious origin. Finally they reach the Eclipse (Ship) and a sentinel droid programmed by Palpatine asks permission for them to be let him- Take us in. It's time to rejoin those who came before.

@panki

spoiler:

That bit about Ben Solo being conceived on Endor directly contradicts what Leia said in Bloodline--that Ben was conceived on the Millennium Falcon while she and Han were running missions early on in their marriage...which is funny because, before Bloodline was released, it had been my headcanon that Ben had been conceived on Endor.

@ISeeAnIsland

Spoiler:

I like the idea of him being conceived on Endor as well.... I think the contradiction is because Leia thought he was conceived on the MF while in Aftermath Han thinks he was conceived under a canopy of trees on Endor.

There is one thing though- Han and Leia were married on Endor shortly after the battle of Endor.....so Ben must have been conceived during their honeymoon on Endor or the MF...not after the battle of Endor as I hoped

Spoiler:

It is never outright stated in Bloodline that Ben was conceived on the Millennium Falcon. I guess it could be implied but here's the passage from the book where Leia reminiscences about her son's conception...

"Leia leaned closer to the terminal so he would see the wickedness in her smile. “But won’t those three months be fun?” She was thinking of a sublight run they’d undertaken together early in their marriage, which had begun with a great deal of bickering. However, all that time alone, with no one to interrupt them, had eventually led to much more enjoyable pursuits. Given the timing, she was fairly sure those pursuits had directly led, some months later, to Ben’s birth." from "Star Wars: Bloodline" by Claudia Gray

Spoiler:

@Xylo Ren wrote:Am I the only one that doesn't like the idea that his/Vader's mask holds a dark energy or power that's corrupting him?

It's just a big bite to chew and I'm not sure the audience would go for it or get it. I also don't want to see something like demonic possession in Star Wars.

That'd be too much.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Another excerpt has been released... it's another Leia and Han (and baby bump Ben one) http://www.starwars.com/news/exclusive-read-an-excerpt-from-star-wars-aftermath-empires-end?cmp=smc%7C810771560

Spoiler:

Luke. She reaches for him but doesn't find him.
The dark, now lit with stars. One by one, like eyes opening. Comforting at first, then sinister as she worries, Who is out there, who is watching us? Hands reach for her, hands of shadow, lifting her up, reaching for her throat, her wrists, her stomach -
Inside, the child kicks. She feels her baby turning inside, right-side, up and down, struggling to find his bearings, trying so hard to find his way free of her. It's not time, she thinks. Just a little longer.
Leia.
Luke, she wants to cry out. But her words don't come. her mouth is sealed, a hand pressed over it. One by one, stars go dark again, winking out of existence as if by a hand slowly closing over them -
Leia!
She gasps and wakes. Han. It's just Han. he's by her side of the bed, rousing her, gently shaking her shoulder.
The dream recedes like a wave going back to sea.
Hi, she says, her mouth tacky, her eyes full of sleep. her middle twists too - it's not the baby. It's some unseen fear uncoiling. The remnants of the dream haunt her - but they break apart like a sand castle as she sits up and clears her head, doing as Luke thought her to do.
Breathe in breathe out. be mindful of the world, the galaxy, your place within it. Everything will be OK. The Force will be your guide."

@teltaru wrote:Leia having bad times.

Spoiler:

Luke. She reaches for him but doesn't find him.
The dark, now lit with stars. One by one, like eyes opening. Comforting at first, then sinister as she worries, Who is out there, who is watching us? Hands reach for her, hands of shadow, lifting her up, reaching for her throat, her wrists, her stomach -
Inside, the child kicks. She feels her baby turning inside, right-side, up and down, struggling to find his bearings, trying so hard to find his way free of her. It's not time, she thinks. Just a little longer.
Leia.
Luke, she wants to cry out. But her words don't come. her mouth is sealed, a hand pressed over it. One by one, stars go dark again, winking out of existence as if by a hand slowly closing over them -
Leia!
She gasps and wakes. Han. It's just Han. he's by her side of the bed, rousing her, gently shaking her shoulder.
The dream recedes like a wave going back to sea.
Hi, she says, her mouth tacky, her eyes full of sleep. her middle twists too - it's not the baby. It's some unseen fear uncoiling. The remnants of the dream haunt her - but they break apart like a sand castle as she sits up and clears her head, doing as Luke thought her to do.
Breathe in breathe out. be mindful of the world, the galaxy, your place within it. Everything will be OK. The Force will be your guide."

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Another excerpt has been released... it's another Leia and Han (and baby bump Ben one) http://www.starwars.com/news/exclusive-read-an-excerpt-from-star-wars-aftermath-empires-end?cmp=smc%7C810771560

spoiler:

“If I think I can help, I’ll always help. With whatever you or our son needs. You know that, right?” And that is what Han ultimately did in TFA

@teltaru wrote:Leia having bad times.

Spoiler:

Luke. She reaches for him but doesn't find him.
The dark, now lit with stars. One by one, like eyes opening. Comforting at first, then sinister as she worries, Who is out there, who is watching us? Hands reach for her, hands of shadow, lifting her up, reaching for her throat, her wrists, her stomach -
Inside, the child kicks. She feels her baby turning inside, right-side, up and down, struggling to find his bearings, trying so hard to find his way free of her. It's not time, she thinks. Just a little longer.
Leia.
Luke, she wants to cry out. But her words don't come. her mouth is sealed, a hand pressed over it. One by one, stars go dark again, winking out of existence as if by a hand slowly closing over them -
Leia!
She gasps and wakes. Han. It's just Han. he's by her side of the bed, rousing her, gently shaking her shoulder.
The dream recedes like a wave going back to sea.
Hi, she says, her mouth tacky, her eyes full of sleep. her middle twists too - it's not the baby. It's some unseen fear uncoiling. The remnants of the dream haunt her - but they break apart like a sand castle as she sits up and clears her head, doing as Luke thought her to do.
Breathe in breathe out. be mindful of the world, the galaxy, your place within it. Everything will be OK. The Force will be your guide."

Spoiler:

a war over Ben's soul starting before he is even born

Spoiler:

"he is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand."

Spoiler:

Snoke was targeting Ben from the very beginning. I predict this is going to have even the 'he killed my childhood hero!' crowd considering redemption.

@BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's another example of what's above

Spoiler:

"he is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand."

Basically like what many of us and JJ have been saying

Spoiler:

Snoke was targeting Ben from the very beginning. I predict this is going to have even the 'he killed my childhood hero!' crowd considering redemption.

Spoiler:

That is horrifying! Is this alluding to what JJ said? That he was a targeted by Snoke from a very early age? Is LF still going down that route somewhat?

Spoiler:

Rosemary's Baby type s***

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

@BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's another example of what's above

Spoiler:

"he is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand."

Basically like what many of us and JJ have been saying

Spoiler:

Snoke was targeting Ben from the very beginning. I predict this is going to have even the 'he killed my childhood hero!' crowd considering redemption.

@BastilaBey

Spoiler:

That is horrifying! Is this alluding to what JJ said? That he was a targeted by Snoke from a very early age? Is LF still going down that route somewhat?

Edit: I only saw the first spoiler when I posted this. :p

Spoiler:

I think what makes it even worse is that he's actually targeting him while he's in the womb.It's awful to think that Ben wasn't even protected from that predator even while he still wasn't even born,it's just horrifying.
This also forshaodws Han being both a dissapointing father and someone who willingly sacrafises hismelf to save his son.I mean that dalogue from Leia's POV about Han ebing bored and wanting to do soemthing because he has no interest in the Rebellion while Leia wanting to be a saviour and still being obsessed with this idea of Rebellion eventhough the New Republic has been formed.

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

@BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's another example of what's above

Spoiler:

"he is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand."

Basically like what many of us and JJ have been saying

Spoiler:

Snoke was targeting Ben from the very beginning. I predict this is going to have even the 'he killed my childhood hero!' crowd considering redemption.

@BastilaBey

Spoiler:

That is horrifying! Is this alluding to what JJ said? That he was a targeted by Snoke from a very early age? Is LF still going down that route somewhat?

Edit: I only saw the first spoiler when I posted this. :p

Spoiler:

I can't see how they could not go that route now.  I have always been a big believer in the Snoke as predator/the dark tormenting Ben very early, but I never thought it would be this explicit.  He's actually being messed with in the womb.  Like @CienaRee says, there is not a place where he can hide ... ever.  He was *never* completely protected at any point in his existence.  Talk about not having a chance.  Talk about being strong in the light to last for 23 years. Wow.

@Mana wrote:Basically, this all just confirms that Ben has been in pain and struggling with the dark side his WHOLE life.

#SaveBenSolo

@SoloSideCousin wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

@BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's another example of what's above

Spoiler:

"he is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand."

Basically like what many of us and JJ have been saying

Spoiler:

Snoke was targeting Ben from the very beginning. I predict this is going to have even the 'he killed my childhood hero!' crowd considering redemption.

@BastilaBey

Spoiler:

That is horrifying! Is this alluding to what JJ said? That he was a targeted by Snoke from a very early age? Is LF still going down that route somewhat?

Edit: I only saw the first spoiler when I posted this. :p

@AppleCrumble122

Spoiler:

I can't see how they could not go that route now.  I have always been a big believer in the Snoke as predator/the dark tormenting Ben very early, but I never thought it would be this explicit.  He's actually being messed with in the womb.  Like @CienaRee says, there is not a place where he can hide ... ever.  He was *never* completely protected at any point in his existence.  Talk about not having a chance.  Talk about being strong in the light to last for 23 years. Wow.

Spoiler:

I had a feeling they had dropped some of JJ's original backstory when they changed directors due to TFA hinting that Ben turned as a teenager, yet Bloodlines stated he turned at 23. Regardless, I'm still cringing! I can't handle it in stories when babies and young children are threatened! It just upsets me!

Spoiler:

Please don't tell me I just read an excerpt of unborn Ben being jabbed at with darkness by Snoke while he's still in the womb. OMFG. I was thinking we'd maybe see some creeping from the shadows, but this is something else altogether... I like it.

@BastilaBey wrote:Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's another example of what's above

Spoiler:

"he is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand."

Basically like what many of us and JJ have been saying

Spoiler:

Snoke was targeting Ben from the very beginning. I predict this is going to have even the 'he killed my childhood hero!' crowd considering redemption.

Spoiler:

I've always been 99% certain Ben was a target from the very beginning because of his bloodline and potential in the Force. This scenario doesn't surprise me in the least as I've never doubted the importance of Ben's childhood in the story of his fall. It's a further confirmation of everything JJ and Adam have shared about the character. Ben likely felt isolated, perhaps misunderstood and lacking true emotional support even though his parents adored him. It's such a tragic situation. So much love and yet so much suffering. I expect we'll see a lot more of his backstory in TLJ, possibly flashbacks of his younger self through Rey's eyes. How could you deny redemption to a character that has been through so much pain already?