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AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

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Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 1:03 pm

@Irina de France wrote:
@Helix wrote:@ISeeAnIsland

It's so ironic. The guy who steals news from other sites and lies half the time.

I guess that just shows the nature of journalism these days.
@Helix

And this is why I will never become a journalist, no matter how much my teachers tried to coax me into it.
@Irina de France

And yet, this is why you should become a journalist. Wink
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Post by Guest on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:45 pm

I'm rewatching TFA with my new dark lineage Rey goggles on, and noticed something possibly interesting in the crawl:

AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Clue10

It seems that the map to the first Jedi temple was found on Jakku, or its discovery led Lor San Tekka there. The first Jedi may have used an obscure ritual to banish Snoke to the center of the planet. (As suggested I believe by @Frolickingfizzgig.)

Then, thousands of years later, this dark presence was released (by Rey's parents?) and immediately began targeting Ben with the intent of someday using him for his power, and to destroy all the Jedi.

Luke went searching for the temple after the destruction of his students. He has not been idle for all those years. Confronted with an ancient evil, Luke would need to delve into the history of the Force to learn how to defeat it. The answer could be in the temple.

Even if none of this is actually the case, it makes the rewatch more intriguing. Razz

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Post by vaderito on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 4:21 pm

I'm under impression that Snoke is in Unknown Regions. Nothing to do with Jakku.
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Post by snufkin on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 4:42 pm

@vaderito wrote:I'm under impression that Snoke is in Unknown Regions. Nothing to do with Jakku.
@vaderito

God help me, I hope this isn't like how in Lost, the survivors find the repeating radio signal at the beginning. Which was hella intriguing and had a lot of promise before the writers went down the rabbit hole of a convoluted mystery. I did always think that the part with Rey being abandoned on Jakku meant that her parents had likely gotten mixed up and were killed as a result of whatever connection it had to Snoke and the Force plot.

The thing with Snoke is how he was able to find out about Vader's parentage of Luke and Leia and then not only target Leia when she was pregnant (which is super creepy), but then into their lives so that he had some kind of access/trust when it came to Ben.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 4:53 pm

@snufkin The book describes what Palpatine thought was waiting for him in Unknown regions as "the origin of the Force, some malevolent presence formed of malevolent substance". That sounds pretty big to me, may explain how he sensed the baby. cause it seems to me that he didn't target leia but always the baby. leia just felt something as a collateral, and because of her protective instinct. But since the baby felt stuff that she didn't, it seems that the target has always been the baby.
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Post by snufkin on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 5:06 pm

@vaderito wrote:@snufkin The book describes what Palpatine thought was waiting for him in Unknown regions as "the origin of the Force, some malevolent presence formed of malevolent substance". That sounds pretty big to me, may explain how he sensed the baby. cause it seems to me that he didn't target leia but always the baby. leia just felt something as a collateral, and because of her protective instinct. But since the baby felt stuff that she didn't, it seems that the target has always been the baby.
@vaderito

That's even more plausible than having to come up with exposition about Snoke being an offscreen character in the PT. Unless that's fodder for a future tie-in novel. I think we'll get some on screen backstory about Rey's parents, only in terms of what happened 20 years prior that ties together her ending up an orphan with whatever Snoke's been planning. Her parents will likely have some role, either as relic hunters or affiliates of the FO who end up in a dangerous situation that gets them killed/murdered. Rey has likely been a fugitive from the FO for her entire life, just off the grid during her childhood and adolescence. But after seeing what's being published versus what made it on screen for R1 and Jyn's family, you'd suspect that that the full story about Rey's parents will be reserved for books and comics.
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Post by BastilaBey on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:20 pm

More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:30 pm

My copy got electronically delivered to my Kindle last night. I started reading before I went to bed but didn't get very far. I really wish that I didn't have to work today so that I could just really dive in!
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Post by jakkusun on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:42 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.
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Post by Reylo Lemon on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:44 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

I'm not crying. I'M NOT CRYING

*CRIES*
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Post by CienaRee on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:48 pm

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

I bought Empire's End today and immediatly jumped in to find out any Han/Leia/baby Ben moments but seriously the little that we got was so adorable and I think it makes what happens in TFA even more tragic.I really loved this little moment,I think it gives further context as to why Han forgives Ben when he kills him:
Spoiler:

Han looks into the eys of his son.
My son.
How the hell did that happen?Well,he knows how that happened- a night under the stars in the canopy of Endor trees.But in the larger sense,the galaxy is a far stranger place than he figuired on if it's letting him be a father.
Solo stands in the nursery alone.The boy,Ben,wriggles and gurgles in the round white buble of protection that is the infancy cradle.han leans forward over it,arms crossed on the rail while looking down at the child's chubby face and drak eyes.They regard each other.The child burbles.
While Leia is in the other room taking a shower,Han says in a low voice:''Hey.It's you and me,kid.Whole damn galaxy against us but we'll make it through okay. I'm not aways gonna be the best dad-c'mon, I don't know what the hell I'm doing here.I can barely take care of myself.But I'll aways keep us pointed in the right direction...even if we zig and zag a little to get there.There's your first lesson: Sometimes doing the right hing doesn't mean following a straight line.Sometimes you gotta-''He takes his hand and gestures with it like it's a fish swimming this way and that,left and right and up and down.''Don't tell your mother I said that.''

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 4:03 pm

@jakkusun wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.
@jakkusun

For me it's another proof that Leia actually didn't feel Han's death immediately, but almost afterwords she sensed her son's remorse and guilt.
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Post by Piper Maru on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 4:47 pm

My heart broke with this quote:

Spoiler:
“Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”
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Post by Xylo Ren on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 4:57 pm

Unbreak My Heart:

AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Tumblr_olqsi2Ahc31td72hio1_540
AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Tumblr_olqsi2Ahc31td72hio2_1280
tumblr: cobwebbing

What the f*** did I just read.

Why are you doing this to us Disney? Lucasfilm? Why couldn't things just run smoothly for the Solos???

This makes me so incredibly sad. I don't cry at movies or books but I've been saying this since day one, this trilogy could wreck me.


Last edited by Xylo Ren on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Xylo Ren on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 5:06 pm

Also this popped up on my tumblr feed right after reading those two pages with Han and I just wasn't ready:

AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Tumblr_olq7urhukD1sadcalo1_400AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Tumblr_olq7urhukD1sadcalo4_400

I CAN'T LOOK AT KYLO THE SAME WAY THIS IS SO SAD WHAT'S HAPPENING TO ME

AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Tumblr_n3gcejSHE01smcbm7o1_500
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 7:43 pm

I'm having an issue after reading all of that, guys. I literally have the song My Immortal playing in my head while I'm holding back tears. It's THAT dramatic!

Also this part seems like ENORMOUS foreshadowing. Like, come on. I can't even read it any other way:

Spoiler:
"There's your first lesson: Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't mean following a straight line. Sometimes you gotta-'' He takes his hand and gestures with it like it's a fish swimming this way and that, left and right and up and down. ''Don't tell your mother I said that.''
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Post by Mana on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 7:47 pm

Aawwww...no wonder Leia had a difficult labor....the little guy had a fat head!
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Post by Guest on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:45 pm

I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:35 am

Great stuff! I'm curious, would you say anything about the Ben being creeped on excerpts turned out to be "vague" or taken out-of-context, or are the still just ominous references to Leia/Ben being watched by something?
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Post by Guest on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 1:16 am

@jakkusun wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.
@jakkusun

Yeah I think that too. The more I read stuff about Leia and Ben's relationship in the books, the more I'm convinced that Leia was to have a big role in IX that was instrumental in Ben's story and helping him come back to the light after Rey helps him want to seek redemption. I also believe that in contrast to Leia, Luke believes that Ben is too far gone "down the dark path" to be brought back and has to see how Ben is changed in order to be able to forgive him. I think there would have been a focus on their relationship too, with them disagreeing on whether Ben still has good in him as well as Luke disappearing among other things putting a strain on their relationship. Sadly with Carrie Fisher's tragic death, I don't think we're gonna get this. About to C About to C About to C

WhatGirl wrote:I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.
@WhatGirl

I believe this too! I believe that Jakku was beautiful and teeming with life and very strong in the Force, but an ancient battle (perhaps one that sealed Snoke away) destroyed all that, turning Jakku into a desert wasteland and severely damaging its connection to the Force. That's why it took Rey so long to have her awakening and why Snoke and Kylo Ren didn't sense it until she left Jakku.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 1:41 am

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@jakkusun wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.
@jakkusun

Yeah I think that too. The more I read stuff about Leia and Ben's relationship in the books, the more I'm convinced that Leia was to have a big role in IX that was instrumental in Ben's story and helping him come back to the light after Rey helps him want to seek redemption. I also believe that in contrast to Leia, Luke believes that Ben is too far gone "down the dark path" to be brought back and has to see how Ben is changed in order to be able to forgive him. I think there would have been a focus on their relationship too, with them disagreeing on whether Ben still has good in him as well as Luke disappearing among other things putting a strain on their relationship. Sadly with Carrie Fisher's tragic death, I don't think we're gonna get this. About to C About to C About to C

WhatGirl wrote:I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.
@WhatGirl

I believe this too! I believe that Jakku was beautiful and teeming with life and very strong in the Force, but an ancient battle (perhaps one that sealed Snoke away) destroyed all that, turning Jakku into a desert wasteland and severely damaging its connection to the Force. That's why it took Rey so long to have her awakening and why Snoke and Kylo Ren didn't sense it until she left Jakku.
@AppleCrumble122

Green Jakku is one of the spoilers from Empire's End. I had to wait another 10 days to get the book. Damn shipping from UK!
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 2:17 am

@ZioRen wrote:I'm having an issue after reading all of that, guys. I literally have the song My Immortal playing in my head while I'm holding back tears. It's THAT dramatic!

Also this part seems like ENORMOUS foreshadowing. Like, come on. I can't even read it any other way:

Spoiler:
"There's your first lesson: Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't mean following a straight line. Sometimes you gotta-'' He takes his hand and gestures with it like it's a fish swimming this way and that, left and right and up and down. ''Don't tell your mother I said that.''
@ZioRen

That's interesting....a lot of people will speculate on Kylo being a 'double agent' but to me it's akin to Kylo 'believing' that the First Order was the right path to follow. Which I suspect he's having strong second thoughts about now Hosnia is gone and killing his father did not bring him the peace he craves.
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Post by Guest on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 2:56 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@jakkusun wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.
@jakkusun

Yeah I think that too. The more I read stuff about Leia and Ben's relationship in the books, the more I'm convinced that Leia was to have a big role in IX that was instrumental in Ben's story and helping him come back to the light after Rey helps him want to seek redemption. I also believe that in contrast to Leia, Luke believes that Ben is too far gone "down the dark path" to be brought back and has to see how Ben is changed in order to be able to forgive him. I think there would have been a focus on their relationship too, with them disagreeing on whether Ben still has good in him as well as Luke disappearing among other things putting a strain on their relationship. Sadly with Carrie Fisher's tragic death, I don't think we're gonna get this. About to C About to C About to C

WhatGirl wrote:I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.
@WhatGirl

I believe this too! I believe that Jakku was beautiful and teeming with life and very strong in the Force, but an ancient battle (perhaps one that sealed Snoke away) destroyed all that, turning Jakku into a desert wasteland and severely damaging its connection to the Force. That's why it took Rey so long to have her awakening and why Snoke and Kylo Ren didn't sense it until she left Jakku.
@AppleCrumble122

Green Jakku is one of the spoilers from Empire's End. I had to wait another 10 days to get the book. Damn shipping from UK!
@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for that! Oh this is exciting! I've believed for a little while that Jakku wasn't originally a desert wasteland and something ancient happened to make it the way it was. I'm certain other people thought the same if I remember correctly, yes? But this seems to go in that direction.

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Post by Irina de France on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 6:19 am

AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@jakkusun wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.
@jakkusun

Yeah I think that too. The more I read stuff about Leia and Ben's relationship in the books, the more I'm convinced that Leia was to have a big role in IX that was instrumental in Ben's story and helping him come back to the light after Rey helps him want to seek redemption. I also believe that in contrast to Leia, Luke believes that Ben is too far gone "down the dark path" to be brought back and has to see how Ben is changed in order to be able to forgive him. I think there would have been a focus on their relationship too, with them disagreeing on whether Ben still has good in him as well as Luke disappearing among other things putting a strain on their relationship. Sadly with Carrie Fisher's tragic death, I don't think we're gonna get this. About to C About to C About to C  

WhatGirl wrote:I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.
@WhatGirl

I believe this too! I believe that Jakku was beautiful and teeming with life and very strong in the Force, but an ancient battle (perhaps one that sealed Snoke away) destroyed all that, turning Jakku into a desert wasteland and severely damaging its connection to the Force. That's why it took Rey so long to have her awakening and why Snoke and Kylo Ren didn't sense it until she left Jakku.    
@AppleCrumble122

Green Jakku is one of the spoilers from Empire's End. I had to wait another 10 days to get the book. Damn shipping from UK!
@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for that! Oh this is exciting! I've believed for a little while that Jakku wasn't originally a desert wasteland and something ancient happened to make it the way it was. I'm certain other people thought the same if I remember correctly, yes? But this seems to go in that direction.
@AppleCrumble122

I'm getting huge KOTOR vibes from this (yes, KOTOR again Razz). I remember during the game the Jawas hinting to Revan that Tatooine was a lush and green world once, but that it was turned into a desert planet over time. It's implied it's due to the Star Map present there, since its Dark Side power unbalances the planet's ecosystem. It does the same with the other planets where the other fragments of the Star Map are present (Kashyyyk with the giant trees, Manaan, a sea world, and Korriban, a rocky desert world which is also the home for the tombs of many Sith lords).

So if Jakku was once a lush planet, maybe it became a desert planet because of a Dark Side relic like the Stap Map? Or perhaps a Dark presence like Snoke?

Man, the theory that Rey's parents are the ones who freed Snoke fits so perfectly it isn't funny anymore.
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Post by Irina de France on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 6:21 am

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:
-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff
@BastilaBey

Anyway, DP, but...

AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers) - Page 10 Michaelscottfacepalm1

I'll never watch TFA the same way again.
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