AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END (Countdown, Speculation, Reviews, Spoilers)

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Great stuff! I'm curious, would you say anything about the Ben being creeped on excerpts turned out to be "vague" or taken out-of-context, or are the still just ominous references to Leia/Ben being watched by something?

@vaderito wrote:

@WhatGirl Yes, there's a quote that Jakku was a verdant planet. However, archaeological digging that Palpatine conducted is really drilling to the core of Jakku in order to make it explode if the Empire fails to protect its Emperor. No other significance.

@CienaRee wrote:This is a great meta about all the important stuff we've learned in Empire's End+ the possible origin of Snoke:
http://starwars-hell.tumblr.com/post/157573913188/unknown-regions-snoke-jakku-the-mystery-of-the

@vaderito wrote:The amount of child abuse in this book is staggering. Baby Ben probed by the dark entity while in his mother's womb. Feral children trained and ordered to kill. Little Armitage Hux encouraged to be their sadistic leader. Anchorite revealed to have forced orphan children to suffer in the name of religion. Very sad.

@jakkusun wrote:

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:

-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.

@Irina de France wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

@Darth_Awakened wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

@jakkusun wrote:

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:

-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff

@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.

@jakkusun

Yeah I think that too. The more I read stuff about Leia and Ben's relationship in the books, the more I'm convinced that Leia was to have a big role in IX that was instrumental in Ben's story and helping him come back to the light after Rey helps him want to seek redemption. I also believe that in contrast to Leia, Luke believes that Ben is too far gone "down the dark path" to be brought back and has to see how Ben is changed in order to be able to forgive him. I think there would have been a focus on their relationship too, with them disagreeing on whether Ben still has good in him as well as Luke disappearing among other things putting a strain on their relationship. Sadly with Carrie Fisher's tragic death, I don't think we're gonna get this.  

WhatGirl wrote:I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.

@WhatGirl

I believe this too! I believe that Jakku was beautiful and teeming with life and very strong in the Force, but an ancient battle (perhaps one that sealed Snoke away) destroyed all that, turning Jakku into a desert wasteland and severely damaging its connection to the Force. That's why it took Rey so long to have her awakening and why Snoke and Kylo Ren didn't sense it until she left Jakku.    

@AppleCrumble122

Green Jakku is one of the spoilers from Empire's End. I had to wait another 10 days to get the book. Damn shipping from UK!

@Darth_Awakened

Thank you for that! Oh this is exciting! I've believed for a little while that Jakku wasn't originally a desert wasteland and something ancient happened to make it the way it was. I'm certain other people thought the same if I remember correctly, yes? But this seems to go in that direction.

@AppleCrumble122

I'm getting huge KOTOR vibes from this (yes, KOTOR again ). I remember during the game the Jawas hinting to Revan that Tatooine was a lush and green world once, but that it was turned into a desert planet over time. It's implied it's due to the Star Map present there, since its Dark Side power unbalances the planet's ecosystem. It does the same with the other planets where the other fragments of the Star Map are present (Kashyyyk with the giant trees, Manaan, a sea world, and Korriban, a rocky desert world which is also the home for the tombs of many Sith lords).

So if Jakku was once a lush planet, maybe it became a desert planet because of a Dark Side relic like the Stap Map? Or perhaps a Dark presence like Snoke?

Man, the theory that Rey's parents are the ones who freed Snoke fits so perfectly it isn't funny anymore.

@Darth_Awakened wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

@jakkusun wrote:

@BastilaBey wrote:More spoilers from tumblr

Spoiler:

-Chewie was not there for the birth. He went back to Kashykk with wife and his kid Lumpy (or Waroo in canon)
-There were rumours that Luke made an appearance and then went off again. -
-Ben was born on Chandrila.
-Also more rumors that Leia was in labor FOR THREE DAYS (Jesus, Ben. Not even out and you’re causing some trouble). But then there’s also rumors that it was painless and fast (no one knows because I guess this is TMZ now lol).
-Leia keeps her family name Organa (so she’s not Leia Solo) and Ben’s last name is Solo.
-BENS FACE IS CHUBBY
-HAN AND BEN’S INTERACTIONS ARE SO f****ing CUTE
-”I’m not always gonna be the best dad…c’mon, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing here. I can barely take care of myself. But I’ll always keep us pointed in the right direction” -Han to Ben (I cried)
-Ben cries in a rather violent way, and it wasn’t really started by anything either. Han was just talking and literally Ben just starts f****ing shrieking (is Snoke already in his head? Holy s***)
-“Ben starts to cry. It comes on fast, like a tropical downpour. He’s staring up, all innocent, and then it hits, boom. The little body tightens up and his mitts (YES THEY SAID MITTS) make little rubbery fists and punch the air. His white cheeks bloom with red. The sound coming out of him is like a storm siren.”
-Ben has a Tooka doll, which looks like a cat? Han uses it to stop his crying but it doesn’t work.
-Han actually believes Leia can calm him down with the Force, and has “seen enough strangeness just to believe it’s just a bunch of hooey”.
-”Leia can quiet the kid with the faintest of gestures. [Han] hates to admit it, but he’s jealous of that. Han will never have that with Ben. They’re connected in a way he can’t even begin to understand.” <- THIS
-Han is hesitant about picking Ben up and has to be coerced by Leia.
-Leia: “he wants to be snuggled”
-Han: “I smuggle, not snuggle”.

-HAN THINKS BEN IS SO SMALL
-Han finally brings Ben close to his chest and he stops crying.
-Foreshadowing quote: “Han thinks how easy it would be to break him. Or to drop him. The boy is vulnerable to everything.”

http://knights-of-ben-solo.tumblr.com/post/157538130660/empires-end-stuff

@BastilaBey

Oh I hope that is a sign that Kylo and Leia do in fact have an important relationship. It has been said that since Kylo never talked about or visibly thought about Leia in TFA, she won't be as important to him/his story, and I really hope that isn't true. Also this is all way too cute oh my gosh.

@jakkusun

Yeah I think that too. The more I read stuff about Leia and Ben's relationship in the books, the more I'm convinced that Leia was to have a big role in IX that was instrumental in Ben's story and helping him come back to the light after Rey helps him want to seek redemption. I also believe that in contrast to Leia, Luke believes that Ben is too far gone "down the dark path" to be brought back and has to see how Ben is changed in order to be able to forgive him. I think there would have been a focus on their relationship too, with them disagreeing on whether Ben still has good in him as well as Luke disappearing among other things putting a strain on their relationship. Sadly with Carrie Fisher's tragic death, I don't think we're gonna get this.

WhatGirl wrote:I don't remember where, but I read that Jakku used to be a "lush, green world" thousands of years ago. Palpatine was looking for an object "that was significant thousands of years ago and will be again" buried on Jakku and at one point he oversaw the Imperials doing archaeological digs. I think if Snoke was banished to the core of the planet by the first Jedi then his dark presence was like a slow corruption that made everything wither away over time. Maybe the object was found and then used to contact and/or free him. But this theory is still in the works and I need to read these books.

@WhatGirl

I believe this too! I believe that Jakku was beautiful and teeming with life and very strong in the Force, but an ancient battle (perhaps one that sealed Snoke away) destroyed all that, turning Jakku into a desert wasteland and severely damaging its connection to the Force. That's why it took Rey so long to have her awakening and why Snoke and Kylo Ren didn't sense it until she left Jakku.

@AppleCrumble122

Green Jakku is one of the spoilers from Empire's End. I had to wait another 10 days to get the book. Damn shipping from UK!

Life Debt excerpt wrote:
He ran. For one klick, then another, until his legs ached so hard they felt like clumps of cured, dried meat hanging from his hips. But now here he is, atop the Plaintive Hand plateau--an outcropping of bent, flat rock that the anchorites say is a holy place, a place the Consecrated Eremite considered home thousands of years before, when Jakku was supposedly a verdant, living place.

@vaderito wrote:Kylo performed the blaster freeze so Jakku definitely didn't suppress his powers. Just pointing that out for anyone who thinks that Jakku may have suppressed Rey's. It would be a bit of a plot hole.

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Dear Rey
Please give that man a hug. For all our sakes.

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@vaderito wrote:Kylo performed the blaster freeze so Jakku definitely didn't suppress his powers. Just pointing that out for anyone who thinks that Jakku may have suppressed Rey's. It would be a bit of a plot hole.

@vaderito

Well...given some of the other inconsistencies in TFA, a plot hole like that wouldn't be out of the question. I guess you could always interpret it as Jakku suppressing Rey's force powers to a certain extent (since she wasn't even aware of them).

Jakku-suppressing-Rey's force powers in some way would align with the interpretation that Rey "awoke" when she got the Falcon into the air and got off of Jakku. The evidence for this is that the "there has been an awakening..." scene followed shortly after that.

OR

If you go with the theory that Rey's force abilities become stronger around Kylo, there's also the possibility that HE initiated the awakening himself when he landed on Jakku in the village attack.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@vaderito wrote:Kylo performed the blaster freeze so Jakku definitely didn't suppress his powers. Just pointing that out for anyone who thinks that Jakku may have suppressed Rey's. It would be a bit of a plot hole.

@vaderito

Well...given some of the other inconsistencies in TFA, a plot hole like that wouldn't be out of the question. I guess you could always interpret it as Jakku suppressing Rey's force powers to a certain extent (since she wasn't even aware of them).

Jakku-suppressing-Rey's force powers in some way would align with the interpretation that Rey "awoke" when she got the Falcon into the air and got off of Jakku. The evidence for this is that the "there has been an awakening..." scene followed shortly after that.

OR

If you go with the theory that Rey's force abilities become stronger around Kylo, there's also the possibility that HE initiated the awakening himself when he landed on Jakku in the village attack.

@ISeeAnIsland

Maz tells Rey that the light inside her has always been there guiding her. I don't think Jakku suppressed the force ability inside of her but it may have shielded her somehow from outside (Snoke's) notice. It took her leaving Jakku for Snoke and Kylo to feel 'The Awakening' and it took Rey coming into direct contact with Kylo for her abilities to expand. She was using the force in a reduced capacity before that, though.

@vaderito wrote:but Kylo was also the Awakening so what influenced his?

@vaderito wrote:but Kylo was also the Awakening so what influenced his?

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@vaderito wrote:but Kylo was also the Awakening so what influenced his?

@vaderito

Being near Rey? If there's a dual awakening (per JJ), and if they have a special Force connection, then it would make sense that they would trigger the awakenings in each other.

@vaderito wrote:Good thinking!

Lead up to TLJ is sending such mixed messages. On one side, they emphasize the connection (JJ, databank) on the other side, marketing is going overboard with Rey, Finn and Poe as Harry,Ron and Hermione. Like, first that toy box and now celebration poster.

@vaderito wrote:Good thinking!

Lead up to TLJ is sending such mixed messages. On one side, they emphasize the connection (JJ, databank) on the other side, marketing is going overboard with Rey, Finn and Poe as Harry,Ron and Hermione. Like, first that toy box and now celebration poster.

@Piper Maru wrote:

@vaderito wrote:Good thinking!

Lead up to TLJ is sending such mixed messages. On one side, they emphasize the connection (JJ, databank) on the other side, marketing is going overboard with Rey, Finn and Poe as Harry,Ron and Hermione. Like, first that toy box and now celebration poster.

@vaderito

I wouldn't worry about it. It's just marketing. Rey and Finn are the dynamic duo of TFA while Poe is handsome and heroic. This sells.

Besides, Kylo and Rey's relationship will evolve in Episode VIII, TFA was just their first meeting. They shared a mysterious connection and all, but their relationship is still on Level 1 and the whole thing was very subtle -- the general audience doesn't care about books, databanks or JJ's commentary. It makes no sense to put them together on boxes/posters now.

@SoloSideCousin wrote:

@Piper Maru wrote:

@vaderito wrote:Good thinking!

Lead up to TLJ is sending such mixed messages. On one side, they emphasize the connection (JJ, databank) on the other side, marketing is going overboard with Rey, Finn and Poe as Harry,Ron and Hermione. Like, first that toy box and now celebration poster.

@vaderito

I wouldn't worry about it. It's just marketing. Rey and Finn are the dynamic duo of TFA while Poe is handsome and heroic. This sells.

Besides, Kylo and Rey's relationship will evolve in Episode VIII, TFA was just their first meeting. They shared a mysterious connection and all, but their relationship is still on Level 1 and the whole thing was very subtle -- the general audience doesn't care about books, databanks or JJ's commentary. It makes no sense to put them together on boxes/posters now.

@Piper Maru

And again, Finn and Poe are looking a different way than Rey. And Rey and Kylo are looking the same way, their lightsabers seemingly facing the same opponent with Luke as kind of a bridge and Kylo being between two of his fathers, Han and Luke.