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The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

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Post by Saracene on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:14 pm

I thought it made sense for Leia to finally give up on Ben, considering what happened in TFA. She was so convinced that his family could still save him, but then it all ended in the worst possible way imaginable. Unlike the audience, she wasn't there to see Kylo's conflict, all she knows is that Han tried reaching out to their son and got murdered instead. For us, two years on and with another movie full of conflicted Kylo, it might feel like Han's death is an ancient history now, but for Leia it's still a raw wound.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:26 pm

@MyOnlyHope

Renperor was probably the single greatest comedy act I've ever witnessed. Good gosh. I was actually laughing in the theatre. Actually a lot of people were. This kid is never going to be Supreme Leader Anything. He's a pathetic, conflicted, ignorant mess who got deservedly and unceremoniously jilted by his entire family and now the love of his life. It's impossible to even be mad at him because he's just such a pitiful fool. AMAZING character who we now get to watch drag himself out of the ditch, but a complete moron nonetheless.

Such a fully realized, well-rounded character thanks almost entirely to Adam's performance. More's the pity they couldn't give other characters even 1/4 of his complexity. No, sir, they had to be stock good guys defined by one character trait - Cocky Pilot, Feisty Girl, etc.

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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:40 pm

@vaderito wrote:@MyOnlyHope

Renperor was probably the single greatest comedy act I've ever witnessed. Good gosh. I was actually laughing in the theatre. Actually a lot of people were. This kid is never going to be Supreme Leader Anything. He's a pathetic, conflicted, ignorant mess who got deservedly and unceremoniously jilted by his entire family and now the love of his life. It's impossible to even be mad at him because he's just such a pitiful fool. AMAZING character who we now get to watch drag himself out of the ditch, but a complete moron nonetheless.

Such a fully realized, well-rounded character thanks almost entirely to Adam's performance. More's the pity they couldn't give other characters even 1/4 of his complexity. No, sir, they had to be stock good guys defined by one character trait - Cocky Pilot, Feisty Girl, etc.

@vaderito

Adam's performance is amazing, and that quote actually makes a lot of sense. I also loved the Renperor for the same reasons: when Kylo is being "Ben Solo" he's sweet, tender, beautiful and you can't help but fall in love with him. When he becomes "Renperor" he's so ridiculous and misguided, that you just know that he'll never be Supreme Leader Anything.
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Post by Gemlake on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:02 pm

I liked the movie overall, but did not love it. There were some beautiful moments, such as the hand holding scene and Luke and Leia. But there were also many moments that fell flat.

Kylo at times seemed more like a caricature than a real person.

Yes, the seeds for a satisfying ending are there. But JJ has a lot work.to do. I'm interested in Episode IX mainly because JJ is returning.




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Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:03 pm

Wow Vanity Fair has just declared TLJ as the sexiest entry in the series, yet! All due to the chemistry between Kylo and Rey.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-reylo-do-kylo-and-rey-fall-in-love-sex/amp

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Post by Atenais on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:07 pm

@Yuugi wrote:[...]

Anyway, I just find this movie too bleak and dark and I'm one that loves a good tragedy. I understand it's a dark middle chapter, but I just left the theater with a knot in my throat and well, it's Star Wars, I shouldn't leave feeling so hopeless.
@Yuugi

Me too, I love tragedies. Maybe it's the reason I liked this movie so much. Actually, I would be fine with Kylo dying in the next movie, I love martyrs. XD

@fuhry wrote:I see a lot of people are pissed at Luke.  I got the impression that he was disturbed by the darkness he felt in Kylo, and he went to go probe into his mind to understand it because he feared it.  There, he saw Snoke's influence and became overwhelmed with fear that he could not do anything to stop Kylo's fall.  So he lit up his lightsaber.... but did he really attack Kylo?  I don't think he really did.  But he did enough to make Kylo think that he did, and that was enough for Kylo to lash out escape with the students that would follow him.   I think it was a misunderstanding, it was a moment of panic and fear on Luke's part, and it happened to be the moment when Snoke's corruption of Ben consummated.  Luke could have handled it better and he surely fucked up, but c'mon, Snoke is the enemy here.
@fuhry

I agree with you. TBH, I liked to see this too more human and imperfect side of Luke. People are telling that the sunshine Luke would never do that. But, didn't people realize that he grow old? And that some of us lose some of our positivity and hopeness when we grow old? That we became more cynical and practical? I was ok with Luke's arc in this movie and I still likes him, despite his mistakes.

@Birdwoman wrote:@Darthdingbat
All of my general audience friends, which include lots of women, love this film.  That is what I am reading in my facebook feed and twitter.
@Birdwoman

Same, my girl friends loved the movie and girls on my Tumblr dashboard seem to have liked it too.

@AnneNeville wrote:I trust Kylo's version more than Luke's. Once you ignite a lightsaber over someone, there's no taking it back. A moment of weakness is a thought. Drawing a weapon is action.

If you wake in the night to someone holding a pillow just above your face, you can't excuse it.
@AnneNeville

Agree with you as well. There was an intention in his visit, even if he decided against it in the last minute. The damage was done anyway.

@ReyofLightSide wrote:I saw the move twice yesterday. I like the idea that we leave the theater feeling like Kylo. Everyone turned away from him. Everyone. His own mother. His mother! And then the love of his life.

Guys, we didn't get Kylo-the-mustache-twirling-villian in that final scene  of him.  We got someone broken and human. He got what he wanted and it wasn't what he wanted at all. He thought killing Han was the answer- nope. He thought doubling down on Renperor would be- he quickly saw that- nope, not that either.

Yeah they pulled the rug out from us but I don't know what else Rey could have done. Kylo became unhinged. She hesitates in that last scene but then gets resolve and shuts the door. Reylo is not dead by any means. They show us that by showing Snoke did not manipulate the Force bond. They are destiny. It is just going to be dark and messy getting there. Kylo is not going to get rewarded for bad behavior from Rey.

And I agree with something from tumblr- what did Rey see in the future vision of Ben that made her fly across the galaxy to him? It must have been powerful AF.
@ReyofLightSide

Yes! People say there was no progression in his character and I disagree. In the last movie Rey almost killed him. And now he not only opened to her, but questioned his own believes (he killed the master who's being influencing him for years) for her. What did people want? Kylo suddenly becoming a different person? Nobody changes that quick. And this is the second movie of a trilogy, they have to have something to talk about in the last movie.

@Reynak wrote:[...]


Whole parts of the movie were useless, the movie lacks depth and meaning, the plot is a mess. I'm sorry to say this, but it's been a real disappointment for me. I'd like to see it again, perhps I'll like it more, but first impressions are usually right. It could have been great, but unfortunately it was just meh.

@Reynak

Jane Austen may not agree with you. *kidding*
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Post by Acritiqua on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:07 pm

Vanity Fair article also has the tone that the relationship is bad and can't happen. Sad
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:21 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
Adam's performance is amazing, and that quote actually makes a lot of sense. I also loved the Renperor for the same reasons: when Kylo is being "Ben Solo" he's sweet, tender, beautiful and you can't help but fall in love with him. When he becomes "Renperor" he's so ridiculous and misguided, that you just know that he'll never be Supreme Leader Anything.
@Piper Maru

I fell in love even more. His breakdown in the walker and then during the stand-off with Luke and especially his puppy-eyed totally pathetic sexy baby kneeling "don't block my Facebook please" last look at Rey were ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:24 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
Adam's performance is amazing, and that quote actually makes a lot of sense. I also loved the Renperor for the same reasons: when Kylo is being "Ben Solo" he's sweet, tender, beautiful and you can't help but fall in love with him. When he becomes "Renperor" he's so ridiculous and misguided, that you just know that he'll never be Supreme Leader Anything.
@Piper Maru

I fell in love even more. His breakdown in the walker and then during the stand-off with Luke and especially his puppy-eyed totally pathetic sexy baby kneeling "don't block my Facebook please" last look at Rey were ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
@vaderito

Same. And trust me, a lot of my GA friends left the theater rooting for Kylo and Reylo.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:30 pm

@Acritiqua wrote:Vanity Fair article also has the tone that the relationship is bad and can't happen. Sad
@Acritiqua

Not at all. They root for them. They acknowledge that rey's rejection of him was handled well cause he was being an a**. The whole point is that he'll save himself instead of waiting for her to save him. She tried once and it didn't work, it's now up to him. And that's how it should be. Nobody's going to have a problem with Reylo when Kylo pulls himself up on his own.
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Post by Atenais on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:31 pm

@Darth Dementor wrote:Wow Vanity Fair has just declared TLJ as the sexiest entry in the series, yet! All due to the chemistry between Kylo and Rey.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-reylo-do-kylo-and-rey-fall-in-love-sex/amp
@Darth Dementor

Wow, this article is very explicit about the sexual tension in the movie. Who would think that we would see an article like that in Vanity Fair?

The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions - Page 21 Vf_110

This quote is such an in your face to antis.

The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions - Page 21 Vf_210

I liked this one a lot.

The bad thing is that they don't seem to believe or like much in Ben Solo's redemption. And I don't like how they did ignore Kylo's past and traumas, as if he was just a problematic kid.

Vanity Fair wrote:But Rey has an entire damn galaxy to save, and can’t expend all her energy trying to coddle the feelings of one injured man-child with daddy issues.

It's ok to save galaxies, but I don't think the Resistence is that good after all.
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Post by EchoBase on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:32 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:Vanity Fair article also has the tone that the relationship is bad and can't happen. Sad
@Acritiqua

Not at all. They root for them. They acknowledge that rey's rejection of him was handled well cause he was being an a**. The whole point is that he'll save himself instead of waiting for her to save him. She tried once and it didn't work, it's now up to him. And that's how it should be. Nobody's going to have a problem with Reylo when Kylo pulls himself up on his own.
@vaderito

This. And apart from that. Does it really matter what they write? I mean, #romancegate? Anyone remember this?
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:33 pm

@EchoBase wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:Vanity Fair article also has the tone that the relationship is bad and can't happen. Sad
@Acritiqua

Not at all. They root for them. They acknowledge that rey's rejection of him was handled well cause he was being an a**. The whole point is that he'll save himself instead of waiting for her to save him. She tried once and it didn't work, it's now up to him. And that's how it should be. Nobody's going to have a problem with Reylo when Kylo pulls himself up on his own.
@vaderito

This. And apart from that. Does it really matter what they write? I mean, #romancegate? Anyone remember this?
@EchoBase

This is their eating the crow pie for Romancegate. The article is enthusiastic about reylo beyond belief.
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Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:40 pm

I guess VF thinks people will forget about Romancegate. Not me. That was such hack reporting.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:46 pm

this guy from another forum summed up my thoughts perfectly basically that the movie pretends to do something new. Like, Reylo is supposed to show the balance, blur the lines between good and evil, until they don't (cue Kylo's threats-making tantrum on Crait). The Jedi should end until they don't cause Rey took the books so she can pass those flawed teachings that should end onto BroomBoi, etc.

Crap.
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Post by Irina de France on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:48 pm

So... I just came back from TLJ, guys.

I'll publish my (very long) thoughts about the movie tomorrow, but yeah. I'm just going to say that overall, I liked the movie. It was better than TFA, but it ain't close to ESB, imo. I started reacting on my Tumblr, but yeah. I'll also add that there was the good, the meh, and the bad.
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:50 pm

I'm kind of feeling now that despite being Renperor, TLJ ended with Ben as the victim and everyone else is the villain.

Maybe this is why that ending really felt polarizing because all of a sudden we're being made to sympathize with what we thought is the antagonist and made to despise the people we thought were the good guys.

It just goes against basic, established programming. If we were droids, we'd have short-circuited because we just can't comprehend it
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Post by Lucina on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:52 pm

Ok guys, I spent the whole day reflecting on the movie and feel that I can now give my opinion on it. I actually liked the movie initially but there were certainly some things in it that I was unsure about and the more time passes the more apparent it’s flaws and shotcomings become to me. I don’t hate it, it had many great moments, but it leaves me with a bad aftertaste. Which is funny to me, because my reaction to TFA was actually very similiar.

While TFA got bogged down by too much nostalgia and trying to copy the OT, TLJ had almost the opposite problem in trying too hard to be different and subverting expactations as much as possible. There were a lot of WTF moments in the film. While the twists of the story really had me on the edge of my seat, in retrospect some of them feel a bit like cheap tricks and I’m not sure how beneficial they really are to the overall story.

So here are some ramblings what I liked and didn’t like about the movie:

First of all, I LOVED the scenes with Rey and Kylo communicating through the Force. I liked how Rian shot those scenes and the exploding hut scene was one of the highlights of the movie for me. BUT I agree that Rey’s transition from „You’re a monster!“ to „He can be saved!“ happened a bit too fast. It felt that a couple of scenes were missing here. It also was a shame that Kylo’s „You need a teacher“-offer wasn’t utilized here. Seriously, Kylo could have given her secret lessons via their force bond while Luke was refusing to teach her.

LOVED Rey and Kylo fighting against the guards. It was great seeing them working together.

I don’t mind Renperor, but I wish it was executed better. First of all, I’m torn about Kylo killing Snoke. The moment was exciting and well executed on screen but it was really odd to get rid of Snoke before the audience even learns who this guy actually is. Like seriously, where does he come from? What does he want? Why does he have so much power? Does he have any connection to the empire/emperor? How the hell did he get close to Ben Solo and seduce him? I get that Snoke was a s*** character in TFA but you were supposed to actually make this guy interesting! Another problem, as some of you have pointed out, is that Kylo Ren has barely any character development in this film. As Renperor he is still the angry kid that has temper tantrums, just like in TFA. It would have been nice to see him grow up a little bit in this film and become more calm and collected. And what excactly is his motivation to become Renperor/join the First Order in the first place? Is he just power hungry? Does he actually want to bring order and peace to the galaxy? Did he plan to betray Snoke all along?

I didn’t like how Kylo’s and Luke’s backstory was handled at all. Luke was completely out off character for even contemplating about killing Kylo. Like seriously, this guy refused to kill the guy who tortured his friends, cut off his hand, killed his mentor, because he was his father but was thinking of killing his own nephew in his sleep (and with whom he had an actual relationship with!) because there was too much darkness in him? I’m sorry, but what?! And had the Darth Vader reveal no impact on Ben’s turn? Why the hell does he want to „finish what Vader started“? Why did he kill Luke’s students? I really hoped that they had come up with a compelling reason for Ben’s turn that would be respectful to both Ben and Luke as characters but unfortunately I was wrong.

Luke’s reasons for wanting the Jedi to end were just as disappointing. The Jedi must end because his nephew went to the dark side and the prequel Jedi were jerks. Great...

It was a shame that we learned nothing about the ancient Jedi or the true nature of the Force in this movie. And what about the raw power of Rey and Kylo? Is there any significance to it?

Leia floating in space was so bad! I can’t believe they put that in the movie!

The porgs were cute and were not overused.

I actually liked Poe in this. Yes he was arrogant and a bit of a jerk but I thought he was too perfect in TFA anyways.

Even though I had some issues with Luke and Leia, I thought both Mark and Carrie gave stellar performances in this film. Especially Mark.

Adam Driver was awesome as Kylo Ren and I actually liked his performance more than in TFA.

Laura Dern played her part well, but I agree that her character was unecessary. The movie was too crowded to begin with so it would have been better if the conflict had played out solely between Leia and Poe.

I actually liked the scenes between Kylo and Hux a lot when he was Renperor. I already loved their rivalry in TFA so that was fun!

Paige death scene was actually really touching!

The action was better than in TFA.

The Finn and Rose storyline was ok. I just don’t like that Finn’s background as a stormtrooper doesn’t seem to affect his character at all. But I already had that gripe with TFA.

I don’t like that at the end we’re back to the Rebellion against the Empire again. For all the praise this movie got for being different, Rian really didn’t break any new ground here.

Rey was still too pure. I wish she had struggled more with her own dark side. Also she was totally sidelined at the end on Crait.

It’s a shame that Kylo and Leia didn’t share a scene.

Reading all this makes it seem that I disliked the movie. That isn’t the case. Overall it just wasn’t the movie I was hoping for.


Last edited by Lucina on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by AnneNeville on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:00 pm

@vaderito wrote:this guy from another forum summed up my thoughts perfectly basically that the movie pretends to do something new. Like, Reylo is supposed to show the balance, blur the lines between good and evil, until they don't (cue Kylo's threats-making  tantrum on Crait). The Jedi should end until they don't cause Rey took the books so she can pass those flawed teachings that should end onto BroomBoi, etc.

Crap.
@vaderito
She took the books? I didn't see that.
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Post by Reylo Lemon on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:00 pm

@vaderito wrote:this guy from another forum summed up my thoughts perfectly basically that the movie pretends to do something new. Like, Reylo is supposed to show the balance, blur the lines between good and evil, until they don't (cue Kylo's threats-making tantrum on Crait). The Jedi should end until they don't cause Rey took the books so she can pass those flawed teachings that should end onto BroomBoi, etc.

Crap.
@vaderito

I still don't get wtf is going on with this broom boy. Can you explain?
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:01 pm

@AnneNeville wrote:
@vaderito wrote:this guy from another forum summed up my thoughts perfectly basically that the movie pretends to do something new. Like, Reylo is supposed to show the balance, blur the lines between good and evil, until they don't (cue Kylo's threats-making  tantrum on Crait). The Jedi should end until they don't cause Rey took the books so she can pass those flawed teachings that should end onto BroomBoi, etc.

Crap.
@vaderito
She took the books? I didn't see that.
@AnneNeville

they are on MF.

@maria Antonietta

BroomBoi's got the Rebellion ring from Rose on canto Bight. He's the little stable boy. In the last scene of the movie, he picks up the broom in a move that looked like he may have called the broom with the Force and then he raised it towards the sky and camera zoomed onto his Rebellion ring implying the rebellion is reborn. But everyone got hung up on whether he is FS.


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Post by Gemlake on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:03 pm

@Atenais
My husband is not a Star Wars fan. He fell asleep during Rogue One, but he enjoyed this one.

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Post by Darth Dingbat on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:03 pm

^ I actually think there may have been a scene with Kylo teaching Rey something but it got cut. There was that clip in the BTS reel where Rey was indoors or in a cave and seemed to be practicing lightsaber forms.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:04 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:^ I actually think there may have been a scene with Kylo teaching Rey something but it got cut. There was that clip in the BTS reel where Rey was indoors or in a cave and seemed to be practicing lightsaber forms.
@Darth Dingbat

Lots of stuff got cut. Including BB8 playing Rey's holo goodbye to Finn.
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Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:05 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@AnneNeville wrote:
@vaderito wrote:this guy from another forum summed up my thoughts perfectly basically that the movie pretends to do something new. Like, Reylo is supposed to show the balance, blur the lines between good and evil, until they don't (cue Kylo's threats-making  tantrum on Crait). The Jedi should end until they don't cause Rey took the books so she can pass those flawed teachings that should end onto BroomBoi, etc.

Crap.
@vaderito
She took the books? I didn't see that.
@AnneNeville

they are on MF.

@maria Antonietta

BroomBoi's got the Rebellion ring from Rose on canto Bight. He's the little stable boy. In the last scene of the movie, he picks up the broom in a move that looked like he may have called the broom with the Force and then he raised it towards the sky and camera zoomed onto his Rebellion ring implying the rebellion is reborn. But everyone got hung up on whether he is FS.
@vaderito

They didn't show her taking them, but yeah, they're on the MF.

@Maria Antonietta

As far as broom boy goes, he uses the force yes? When he retrieves the broom to him though the air?
SheLitAFire
SheLitAFire
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Date d'inscription : 2016-09-15
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The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions - Page 21 Empty Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

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