Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

[Lily Snape]

Looking at the bad box office drop, I would say Reylo odds are going up, because they're not going to leave this trilogy without a possible Skywalker heir down the road, if they even were thinking about it.

Unless of course they decide Rey really is Luke's daughter after all. Cringe.

The box office drop is, according to a new article on Forbes, absolutely typical. So that’s good. If I can find it again I’ll edit to link it.
@Kylo Men

[DeeBee]

If I had to guess, they essentially fridged Rey for the last half hour of the movie so that we wouldn't see her thoughts/reactions to what had transpired with Kylo. If they'd kept her on camera, they would have had to tip their hat as to how she was feeling, and it seems like they still wanted to keep some mystery around that...perhaps if only to make that final shot of her closing the Falcon door more impactful.

@ISeeAnIsland

Yet again I find myself agreeing with you @ISeeAnIsland!
We are very much left up in the air about Rey's state once she is knocked out over the light saber tug of war.
She's just had her heart broken.. they leave us in suspense... I really wanted to know how she would react. it worked for me

Would the disappointment of her vision not coming to pass as she though lead to her losing hope? She thought Ben was going to turn the tide in the war. Will she rally and fight on?
And if she does how will she do it? - will she do it with renewed hope? or will she be fighting on believing they are doomed?
I think we learned a lot about Rey's character in how she responded to things once she awoke from consciousness.. and collects the two halves of the light saber, and then engages in battle again upbeat and actually enjoying the fight!
She's not lost hope. And she's tough! Her spirit is not broken.

Some may find this unrealistic or feels wrong- I don't.. because in the final moments of the film we see she is indeed deeply wounded by what took place with Ben - however, she was able to put it to one side and fight on with hope.
There's a line the english resistance lady says when delivering her update to the resistance about Leia's medical status and losing all the resistance leadership.. she says: if she (Leia) were here, she’d say save your sorrow for after the fight.
This is exactly (IMHO) what Rey did!

One other thought: I think Rey needed to be out of the whole confrontation with Luke - that was Kylo and Luke focused.. Rey had done her bit in the story- by challenging Luke to face his failure and Kylo.. and Kylo had been working toward this confrontation for years. Rey needed to not be there and involved. IMHO of course.

[vaderito]

I see TFA as more of a Rey movie and TLJ as more of a Kylo movie and expect IX to be about both since them being on the opposite sides as leaders and yet having feelings for each other is the heart of the movie.

[Moonlight13]

I see TFA as more of a Rey movie and TLJ as more of a Kylo movie and expect IX to be about both since them being on the opposite sides as leaders and yet having feelings for each other is the heart of the movie.

@vaderito
I totally agree with you.

[Kessel]

I see TFA as more of a Rey movie and TLJ as more of a Kylo movie and expect IX to be about both since them being on the opposite sides as leaders and yet having feelings for each other is the heart of the movie.

@vaderito

Yes, and you can't beat that kind of drama. That's why I'll never understand how some people can think Rey and Kylo are going to forget what happened in TLJ and just become standard enemies. What happened between them is not something that can just be swept away and forgotten.

[FrolickingFizzgig]

Rey and Kylo being on opposite sides going into IX was kind of paramount to the central drama being focused on them. Teaming up for a whole movie as allies against Snoke would have altered the hero/villain dynamic. Rian's direction keeps the attention on their star-crossed connection and provides the ideal set-up for an optimistic conclusion. Better that they truly come together in the end, not in chapter 2.

[vaderito]

Yes, and you can't beat that kind of drama. That's why I'll never understand how some people can think Rey and Kylo are going to forget what happened in TLJ and just become standard enemies. What happened between them is not something that can just be swept away and forgotten.

@Kessel

people who think Kylo's a Steppenwolf. Even though no SW movie ever had a finale where hero and villain weren't emotionally connected. Anakin and OB1 = brothers. Luke and Vader = family. Rey and Kylo = #truelove

[ISeeAnIsland]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

It's not that what I think they did is bad. But splitting them up killed a lot of the momentum of the movie. Rey disappears, and so does Kylo's brain, and we're stuck with Finn and Rose. I'm not sure it was the right decision. The ronin option might have been better.

@Kylo Men

If I had to guess, they essentially fridged Rey for the last half hour of the movie so that we wouldn't see her thoughts/reactions to what had transpired with Kylo.  If they'd kept her on camera, they would have had to tip their hat as to how she was feeling, and it seems like they still wanted to keep some mystery around that...perhaps if only to make that final shot of her closing the Falcon door more impactful.

@ISeeAnIsland

This, and I think that they also want to save her true reactions for Episode IX.  I imagine that they will be quite the opposite of her steely "slamming the door in his face" look.

@SoloSideCousin

I really hope that that's the case--it's certainly what I'd like to see.

This is another reason why I don't want to see a big time jump. (Not to sound like other places on the internet where people whine that they don't want certain things.) I want to see how Rey is affected in the aftermath of what's happened--I want to see her broken heart, rather than how she's feeling several years down the line when she's likely moved on.

[PalmettoBlue]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

It's not that what I think they did is bad. But splitting them up killed a lot of the momentum of the movie. Rey disappears, and so does Kylo's brain, and we're stuck with Finn and Rose. I'm not sure it was the right decision. The ronin option might have been better.

@Kylo Men

If I had to guess, they essentially fridged Rey for the last half hour of the movie so that we wouldn't see her thoughts/reactions to what had transpired with Kylo.  If they'd kept her on camera, they would have had to tip their hat as to how she was feeling, and it seems like they still wanted to keep some mystery around that...perhaps if only to make that final shot of her closing the Falcon door more impactful.

@ISeeAnIsland

This, and I think that they also want to save her true reactions for Episode IX.  I imagine that they will be quite the opposite of her steely "slamming the door in his face" look.

@SoloSideCousin

I really hope that that's the case--it's certainly what I'd like to see.

This is another reason why I don't want to see a big time jump. (Not to sound like other places on the internet where people whine that they don't want certain things.) I want to see how Rey is affected in the aftermath of what's happened--I want to see her broken heart, rather than how she's feeling several years down the line when she's likely moved on.

@ISeeAnIsland

Can she move on with that Force Bond intact? I’m not sure how well that’s going to work. I mean, I’m sure she can start to heal, but Ben’s always going to be there, a presence in her mind as she is in his.

[Good-olio Raeh]

Why we should not abandon Reylo:

I assert that Rey closed the door on the Falcon because, at that moment, Kylo chose power over love.  But he is kneeling before her in that scene, holding onto a token of love that was once in the Falcon. That's what the lovers in Skywalkers have always chosen over power over love ultimately.  They think that power can help control that love, keep it safe.  In the novelization of The Force Awakens, Snoke accuses Kylo of having compassion on her, which in the prequels compassion is defined as Agapae love, unconditional.  I think the rage we see in Kylo is due to him being rejected by someone he loves once again.  But she rejects him that time because he offers her the wrong thing.  He doesn't offer her love; he offers her power...which is exactly what Vader offers Luke in Empire. But then in Return of the Jedi, Luke comes back and is able to redeem his dad during that test.  That was family love, but what if Rey's unconditional love for Kylo and vice versa is the force that pulls them together.  Just because you shut the door on that "ship"    doesn't meant it is shut for good...only on that ride. See the Falcon as a metaphor for the family...an arc of salvation if you like...  Remember, Rey's parents forced her out of the family ship and abandoned her.  They never came back.  What if Rey comes back to save the last Skywalker.    We are so concerned for the Jedi when we hear the threat of the last Jedi from Luke.  Are we not as concerned for the fate of the last Skywalker? Would it be wonderful, that at least, a Skywalker learned to love maturely?  Look at Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, Darcy offered his hand the first time by saying that she and her "family's condition in life is so decidedly below my own."  Yes, Kylo says that with pride, but he can be changed.... I believe.  Remember the last thing Luke told Leia before he left her.  Reflect on that.  Do you really want the Skywalker family to die, or do you want love to resurrect it from the ashes?

[Xylo Ren]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

This.

No one can claim that Rey lost her agency or felt weak in the knees over a boy. She held her ground even though she did have genuine feelings for him.

No one can claim that Kylo is a creepy stalker hunting Rey around the galaxy like prey. She came to him. She initiated  e v e r y t h i n g. He in turn didn't lose agency by groveling.

I love that they're both stubborn.

No one can claim that it was an icky, cheesy, unrealistic love story with "kissy kissy" and goo-goo eyes in meadows talking about sand. It was intense, intimate, and feverish.

This is the reylo I didn't know I needed

[snufkin]

The more I think about it, the more I'm in awe of the smart way they handled Reylo in this movie.

1) Build a relationship based on a genuine connection and chemistry without any tired cliches of the typical blockbuster romance, that even "no romance in mah SW" fanboys can hop aboard.
2) Pre-emptively shut down any criticism of "harmful messages" by having Rey emphatically reject the Dangerous Dreamboat at the end of the film. See, she dumped him and won't put up with his sith, so there's no issue right?

@Saracene

This.

No one can claim that Rey lost her agency or felt weak in the knees over a boy. She held her ground even though she did have genuine feelings for him.

No one can claim that Kylo is a creepy stalker hunting Rey around the galaxy like prey. She came to him. She initiated  e v e r y t h i n g. He in turn didn't lose agency by groveling.

I love that they're both stubborn.

No one can claim that it was an icky, cheesy, unrealistic love story with "kissy kissy" and goo-goo eyes in meadows talking about sand. It was intense, intimate, and feverish.

This is the reylo I didn't know I needed

@Xylo Ren

It really was the best case scenario of how films and tv *should* do this type of relationship. And I'd like to think that it has to do with Carrie Fisher's role in editing/drafting the script because her famous writing advice was "make the women smarter and the love scenes more interesting."

[vaderito]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

[Xylo Ren]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito

It's true and realistic. The only person who can change you is you. You can be inspired to change by seeing others, but the only person who can actually turn around your bad habits, addictions, insecurities, sins, is you.

[vaderito]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito

It's true and realistic. The only person who can change you is you. You can be inspired to change by seeing others, but the only person who can actually turn around your bad habits, addictions, insecurities, sins, is you.

@Xylo Ren



I'm still bummed that they didn't get their own theme though I love it that the Force Theme played during #handsex.

[snufkin]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito

It's true and realistic. The only person who can change you is you. You can be inspired to change by seeing others, but the only person who can actually turn around your bad habits, addictions, insecurities, sins, is you.

@Xylo Ren

I don't know if you've seen the documentary about Debbie Reynold and Carrie Fisher's relationship as mother and daughter, but that's the central theme when they talk about Carrie's issues with drug addiction and mental health. They went through a period of estrangement (and it's the only time when you see Debbie's composed/cheerful facade break and she almost starts crying) because her demons were eating her up. And they even talk about when Todd had to do an involuntary commitment to a mental hospital when she had her psychotic breakdown. But it very much shows that while Carrie had this back bench of love/support from her family, she's the person who made the choice to pull herself out of that Hell. Which obviously she still struggled with her entire life. But I'd imagine as a recovering addict, that'd be a message she'd agree with in terms of what that narrative line has to be for Ben.

[Little_Boots]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito

It's true and realistic. The only person who can change you is you. You can be inspired to change by seeing others, but the only person who can actually turn around your bad habits, addictions, insecurities, sins, is you.

@Xylo Ren

That is very true!

[FrolickingFizzgig]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito
It's kind of a commentary on Luke and Vader. At the end of the day Vader's redemption was unrealistically easy because of when it took place in the OT. Kylo's on the other hand is going to end up lasting three whole films and conclude with a much more powerful message -- only you can save yourself.

[Xylo Ren]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito

It's true and realistic. The only person who can change you is you. You can be inspired to change by seeing others, but the only person who can actually turn around your bad habits, addictions, insecurities, sins, is you.

@Xylo Ren



I'm still bummed that they didn't get their own theme though I love it that the Force Theme played during #handsex.

@vaderito

I've watched it five times and I guess Rian wanted their scenes to be almost dead silent. That honestly makes them more intimate, and that seems to be what he was going for. I'm also sad there was no theme but the Force Theme playing when they touched hands is very hopeful. That's always a good sign.

Also I do appreciate how the music in their Force Bond scenes are dark, mysterious, curious, and sensual. I can also see Rian saying something like "Can you put something sexy here?" he uses bass clarinets and bassoons, dark, deep-toned instruments to emit a sense of unease but also desire.

[vaderito]

@"Xylo Ren' You are right about almost silent scenes. That's actually great for intimacy. Love theme is more for sweeping scenes that end with the kiss.

[Xylo Ren]

@"Xylo Ren' You are right about almost silent scenes. That's actually great for intimacy. Love theme is more for sweeping scenes that end with the kiss.

@vaderito

Exactly. Rian wanted intimate scenes and that means no one else is around, it's just about those two people and we're just the lurkers. In their first Force Skype you can only hear the sound of them breathing suuuuuuper intimate. And then later he wipes the water off his face and glove and it's like this dark, unsettling sound like "Oops what just happened?" LOL

[vaderito]

have you seen this video?

https://damnyoudisney.tumblr.com/post/168849109913/and-its-sweet-sweet-victory

[Lily Snape]

The boy will have to save himself if he wants to win the girl back. How can anyone be against that message?

@vaderito
It's kind of a commentary on Luke and Vader. At the end of the day Vader's redemption was unrealistically easy because of when it took place in the OT. Kylo's on the other hand is going to end up lasting three whole films and conclude with a much more powerful message -- only you can save yourself.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Maybe this is because I work in healthcare, but I found Rey and Kylo's stories relevant for right now.  For Kylo, he has to save himself, he has to want it-- how many times have I sat in a room with someone whose relative wants them to stop using or drinking, and how many times have we had the conversation about how the addicted person has to do it themselves?  There's no dragging someone to the Light side.

On a related note, I loved that Rey's family weren't just Darksiders, but addicts themselves.  She's like one of the tens of thousands of kids raising themselves or flooding the foster care system because of addicted parents.  The lucky ones are the kids who come in with a grandparent or aunt who is at our office for an adoption physical, but so many are not that lucky.

I think the message, even though it's art and it doesn't have to have a message, is that you can come back from these things.  If the OT was a Star Wars for the post Vietnam War era, this is Star Wars for the opioid epidemic.  Maybe that's why I want so badly for them to both have a happy ending.  I'm sure it will be bittersweet in some way.  But happy.

[Cowgirlsamurai]

I keep asking myself if Kylo is the focus of this trilogy and they just made the POV character a girl for the feminine gaze aspect. Rey’s character is kind of vague and unpredictable to me, especially after TLJ.

[rey09]

I keep asking myself if Kylo is the focus of this trilogy and they just made the POV character a girl for the feminine gaze aspect. Rey’s character is kind of vague and unpredictable to me, especially after TLJ.

@Cowgirlsamurai  I was thinking this too, it really felt like Kylo was more of a "main" character after TLJ to me.

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