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The Last Jedi General Discussion

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Post by special_cases on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 3:52 pm

@followmylead-kylodriver I love your username "followmylead"! Laughing bounce
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Post by Tex on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 4:26 pm

It just really saddens me that Rose is so hated elsewhere in the fandom because from my first viewing of TLJ, I thought her character was pretty much the very heart of SW. And sure, call her line cheesy all you want, but it sums up the whole saga so well and, well, let's face it, SW can be cheesy af at times. She was the one and only character in TLJ who was a heroine from the beginning to the end, and I really hope JJ gives her something to do in IX, fanboys' complaints be damned.
@Irina de France

I don't get it either. I really love Rose. I think she's a really unique character and I really love the sisterly dynamic she had with Paige. Also it's Star Wars, I don't even know how people can justify any line as "cheesy", especially when we have the infamous sand line from Anakin among other jewels of dialogue. Rose's character and lines remind me of old Hollywood. You can almost here the likes of Cary Grant or Grace Kelly uttering "I'd like to put my fist through this whole, lousy, beautiful town". OH and wait a second, "To Catch a Thief" was one of the films that inspired Rian Johnson, wouldn't you know it Rolling Eyes
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Post by Saracene on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 4:36 pm

I wouldn't mind Rose's line so much if she just said that they're going to win by saving what they love. But considering that the good guys' victories in SW always involved destroying what they hate *to* save what they love (including Holdo's run and Rose's own sister in TLJ)... sorry but I find Rose's line completely nonsensical.
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Post by Riri on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 4:43 pm

@Saracene

I read that the line was inspired by something written during the making of Empire Strikes Back. I cant remember who it was, but they said "Its possible to fight to save what you love, not by being blinded by hate". That was basically what she was trying to say. So its the beating heart of the saga, Holdo fought the FO by sacrificing herself to save the Resistance. Ben killed
Snoke to save what he loved - Rey. Luke used a non violent approach to save the Resistance AND Ben's soul. In contrast, Finn was blinded by hate and it would've been a needless sacrifice as they kept telling him the cannon was already powered up and he would've died for nothing! That's my take anyway!

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Post by Saracene on Thu 19 Apr 2018, 5:06 pm

@Riri Maybe Rose should have clarified the bit about being blinded by hate and pointless sacrifice. Instead of just generally saying that they're not going to win by destroying what they hate, and expecting the audience to interpret it the right way. If you want to communicate a Big Message like this, maximum clarity is a must.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 12:42 am

@Irina de France wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Off topic but.....Rian said Luke and Rey were the beating heart of TLJ. But to me...the beating heart was Rose.Rose, who thought saving abused animals was worth her life. Who was Finn's inspiration to become a hero, who nearly died saving him because she believed the war between the FO and the Resistance would be won by love,not hate. Whatever happens in IX, I think it will be Rose who convinces Rey that Ben Solo needs another chance, that he's still worth saving because that is the kind of person she is.....Rose is love personified, the 'normal' person among all these damaged souls. And if Finn ever forgives Kylo, how many bets it will be Rose who helps him do so.
@motherofpearl1

It just really saddens me that Rose is so hated elsewhere in the fandom because from my first viewing of TLJ, I thought her character was pretty much the very heart of SW. And sure, call her line cheesy all you want, but it sums up the whole saga so well and, well, let's face it, SW can be cheesy af at times. She was the one and only character in TLJ who was a heroine from the beginning to the end, and I really hope JJ gives her something to do in IX, fanboys' complaints be damned.
@Irina de France

I find it hard to believe myself, because if ever a character was 'needed' it's Rose - this is a saga where all the characters are damaged with the exception of Poe. Rose has had a hard life, but she also has had a loving family, although she lost them. I really hope she becomes friends with Rey, because I think it will be someone like her who will recognise that Kylo's actions, twisted though they were, come from love for Rey. Rey doesn't realise it yet, but Rose, who's experienced love, will. She is driven by love, and Kelly plays her so well.
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Post by Riri on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 12:55 am

@Saracene

I think its purposely meant to be a bit of a thinkpiece but i do think all the pieces fit because Finn was saying stuff like "No i wont let them win!"and Rose and Poe are shouting at him saying the cannons already charged, its too late, they have to retreat and and its a suicide run. Then Rose says to him "I saved you...dummy" after she crashes into him.

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Post by DeeBee on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 1:10 am

Original question spoilered for brevity.. :

@DeeBee wrote:Hi Everyone, I figure this is the place to ask... I have a question about Snoke and his targeting of Ben Solo.
I am not across the canon content that has covered that time period...
I'm thinking when Ben was born it had not been revealed to the galaxy that Leia was Luke's sister, and the daughter of Darth Vader.
Who knew at that point who her birth parents were?  
In TLJ we heard Snoke targeted Ben - knowing of his powerful bloodline and valuing that Darth Vader legacy.
How could Snoke have known Leia was Darth Vader's daughter when Ben was still in the womb?
Do we have answers to this at all? anyone?
Is this bloodlines and Aftermath that covers this?
Would love to hear your thoughts! Bye!
So fun to hear all your ideas! I know this is something we may never get answers to in SW, or if we do – they will maybe be a while coming.. so I was very curious to hear any thoughts!
@Apriljandy wrote:Hhmm. I think Snoke being all powerful can probably sense that Leia was of Skywalker blood, still not sure how he knew though.
@Apriljandy
-interesting idea.. yes maybe he came into contact with Leia through ordinary means and happened to sense her strong force ability.
Could be at least a partial explanation – as it doesn’t fully explain how he would know she was Vader’s daughter.
@Night Huntress wrote:@DeeBee
that's actually a very good question- how indeed? Confus  
You can always argue "through the force" but I feel that would be lazy storytelling. It makes the force such a plot device...which is OK sometimes, it's a fairy tale and "the force" is the SW version of "magic"- but if it's used too often it looses it's specialness.
Besides - even fantasy and fairy tales needs an in-universe logic otherwise it get's very confusing...
@Night Huntress
-Thanks Night Huntress! Yeah I hope for more than a ‘through the force’ type explanation too! I suspect there will be something in the story of Snoke identifying Ben Solo as Vader’s blood line that will tell us much about who he is and where he was all those empire years.. hmm.. [See the Snoke in IX thread for speculations if you are interested.]
@Starliteprism wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee Maybe Snoke was someone in their inner circle, or someone Luke met on his jedi travels and confided in. Or Snoke simply could have found out through the force.
I'm a fan of Luke meeting him on his travels, in some capacity, but pretty much was like kicking a hornet's nest.
@rawpowah  @Starliteprism
It was a very small inner circle.. makes me very curious indeed! How did Leia as Vader’s daughter get out there into the public eventually?
Trying to think of another source of this info… Dr Aphra killed Padme’s midwife… and Dr.Aphra only knew about the one child didn’t she? I think so?
Yes there is always the old ‘he found them through the force!’ I don’t know if it’s canon but in Legends there are force hounds who can sniff out strong force users.. still.. how would Snoke have known the vader connection? Seems that is a main reason why Kylo/Ben was targeted.

Luke confiding in someone on his travels – my first instinct here is that he would not have confided this information to anyone.
But you guys got me thinking – we know that one of Snoke’s main force abilities is telepathy – maybe disguised Snoke met Luke Skywalker on his travels (he had identified Luke as someone dangerous and to watch – as he knew the cosmic force favoured him) and through telepathy Snoke found out Vader was Luke’s father, and Leia was his sister.
Or Palpatine told Snoke about Luke Skywalker being Vader’s son and then Snoke through telepathy identified Leia as his sister… Or a member of the inner circle blabbed…
There are a few possibilities! LOL I bet we are way off and it’s something else haaa.

@MrsWindu - thank you soooo much for sharing this great lightsaber info. that the Rey's light saber broke apart because of an overload of energy is new. I have no heard it expressed this way before!

@followmylead-kylodriver -Awh thanks! You made my day! Glad you enjoyed a little SW poetry! Welcome to the forum!  Very Happy
@followmylead-kylodriver wrote:Got another question re: Snoke... forgive me if this has already been discussed - I'm new here.
What are your thoughts about Snoke and the Force Time stuff? So Snoke claims that it was he that 'bridged their minds', which of course shocks Rey and outrages Kylo. Is this true? Is he just messing with them? They can still connect after Snoke is dead (*phew!*) so what does that mean? If he ISN'T responsible for bridging their minds, how does he even know about their Force Time sessions?
@followmylead-kylodriver
There has been lots of discussions about this – But you ask a really interesting question!
Starting out it can be fun finding your way around.. you might like to read these threads: https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t708-force-bond-logistics-implications  & https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t766-the-force-bond-is-not-closed
@snufkin – I like the ‘signal boost’ idea!

My current thinking is: judging by Snoke’s POV revealed in TLJ novelisation, Snoke genuinely believes he has bridged their minds and that it is all his own doing. I.e. without him they would not have formed this connection. I believe this is some hubris on Snoke’s part, but it shows Snoke was not ‘lying’. He was just over estimating what he was responsible for. The star wars databank confirms Snoke was manipulating the connection that was growing stronger here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Snoke_11
-I do love this pic! lol.

Some believe the bond formed or their minds were bridged during the interrogation. I tend be less clearly defined than that.. the bond over time has likely changed in quality and intensity - that would be hard to pin down.. But I think a 'connection' was there before the interrogation and Snoke, because Kylo/Ben was already sensing a ‘strange connection’ with Rey when he first spotted her on Takodana. I figure it's why he took her (maybe JJ said that on the commentary too? not sure..). This 'connection' is mentioned on the star wars databank here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Kylo_b10
and there is the moment in the force vision when Rey sees Kylo and Kylo seems to see Rey in her vision – this is before they met.

2 ideas that are maybe a little vague but I think feed into this existing connection:
-Kylo's pretty intense 'What girl?!' suggests he had a knowledge of a girl that was somehow important..
-I think their connection is also tied to the awakening of the force that takes place during TFA... and Snoke and Kylo both sensed the awakening before Kylo and Rey meet on Takodana.

Anyway, I tend to think there was already a connection, the connection changed in quality and strength, and was maybe fully awakened when the force was awakened – then Snoke comes along and boosts the signal or adds a quality to it. Does that work? Or is there something I’m not seeing here in all this?
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Post by Starliteprism on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 5:25 am

@DeeBee wrote:
Original question spoilered for brevity.. :

@DeeBee wrote:Hi Everyone, I figure this is the place to ask... I have a question about Snoke and his targeting of Ben Solo.
I am not across the canon content that has covered that time period...
I'm thinking when Ben was born it had not been revealed to the galaxy that Leia was Luke's sister, and the daughter of Darth Vader.
Who knew at that point who her birth parents were?  
In TLJ we heard Snoke targeted Ben - knowing of his powerful bloodline and valuing that Darth Vader legacy.
How could Snoke have known Leia was Darth Vader's daughter when Ben was still in the womb?
Do we have answers to this at all? anyone?
Is this bloodlines and Aftermath that covers this?
Would love to hear your thoughts! Bye!
So fun to hear all your ideas! I know this is something we may never get answers to in SW, or if we do – they will maybe be a while coming.. so I was very curious to hear any thoughts!
@Apriljandy wrote:Hhmm. I think Snoke being all powerful can probably sense that Leia was of Skywalker blood, still not sure how he knew though.
@Apriljandy
-interesting idea.. yes maybe he came into contact with Leia through ordinary means and happened to sense her strong force ability.
Could be at least a partial explanation – as it doesn’t fully explain how he would know she was Vader’s daughter.
@Night Huntress wrote:@DeeBee
that's actually a very good question- how indeed? Confus  
You can always argue "through the force" but I feel that would be lazy storytelling. It makes the force such a plot device...which is OK sometimes, it's a fairy tale and "the force" is the SW version of "magic"- but if it's used too often it looses it's specialness.
Besides - even fantasy and fairy tales needs an in-universe logic otherwise it get's very confusing...
@Night Huntress
-Thanks Night Huntress! Yeah I hope for more than a ‘through the force’ type explanation too! I suspect there will be something in the story of Snoke identifying Ben Solo as Vader’s blood line that will tell us much about who he is and where he was all those empire years.. hmm.. [See the Snoke in IX thread for speculations if you are interested.]
@Starliteprism wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee Maybe Snoke was someone in their inner circle, or someone Luke met on his jedi travels and confided in. Or Snoke simply could have found out through the force.
I'm a fan of Luke meeting him on his travels, in some capacity, but pretty much was like kicking a hornet's nest.
@rawpowah  @Starliteprism
It was a very small inner circle.. makes me very curious indeed! How did Leia as Vader’s daughter get out there into the public eventually?
Trying to think of another source of this info… Dr Aphra killed Padme’s midwife… and Dr.Aphra only knew about the one child didn’t she? I think so?
Yes there is always the old ‘he found them through the force!’ I don’t know if it’s canon but in Legends there are force hounds who can sniff out strong force users.. still.. how would Snoke have known the vader connection? Seems that is a main reason why Kylo/Ben was targeted.

Luke confiding in someone on his travels – my first instinct here is that he would not have confided this information to anyone.
But you guys got me thinking – we know that one of Snoke’s main force abilities is telepathy – maybe disguised Snoke met Luke Skywalker on his travels (he had identified Luke as someone dangerous and to watch – as he knew the cosmic force favoured him) and through telepathy Snoke found out Vader was Luke’s father, and Leia was his sister.
Or Palpatine told Snoke about Luke Skywalker being Vader’s son and then Snoke through telepathy identified Leia as his sister… Or a member of the inner circle blabbed…
There are a few possibilities! LOL I bet we are way off and it’s something else haaa.

@MrsWindu - thank you soooo much for sharing this great lightsaber info. that the Rey's light saber broke apart because of an overload of energy is new. I have no heard it expressed this way before!

@followmylead-kylodriver -Awh thanks! You made my day! Glad you enjoyed a little SW poetry! Welcome to the forum!  Very Happy
@followmylead-kylodriver wrote:Got another question re: Snoke... forgive me if this has already been discussed - I'm new here.
What are your thoughts about Snoke and the Force Time stuff? So Snoke claims that it was he that 'bridged their minds', which of course shocks Rey and outrages Kylo. Is this true? Is he just messing with them? They can still connect after Snoke is dead (*phew!*) so what does that mean? If he ISN'T responsible for bridging their minds, how does he even know about their Force Time sessions?
@followmylead-kylodriver
There has been lots of discussions about this – But you ask a really interesting question!
Starting out it can be fun finding your way around.. you might like to read these threads: https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t708-force-bond-logistics-implications  & https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t766-the-force-bond-is-not-closed
@snufkin – I like the ‘signal boost’ idea!

My current thinking is: judging by Snoke’s POV revealed in TLJ novelisation, Snoke genuinely believes he has bridged their minds and that it is all his own doing. I.e. without him they would not have formed this connection. I believe this is some hubris on Snoke’s part, but it shows Snoke was not ‘lying’. He was just over estimating what he was responsible for. The star wars databank confirms Snoke was manipulating the connection that was growing stronger here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Snoke_11
-I do love this pic! lol.

Some believe the bond formed or their minds were bridged during the interrogation. I tend be less clearly defined than that.. the bond over time has likely changed in quality and intensity - that would be hard to pin down.. But I think a 'connection' was there before the interrogation and Snoke, because Kylo/Ben was already sensing a ‘strange connection’ with Rey when he first spotted her on Takodana. I figure it's why he took her (maybe JJ said that on the commentary too? not sure..). This 'connection' is mentioned on the star wars databank here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Kylo_b10
and there is the moment in the force vision when Rey sees Kylo and Kylo seems to see Rey in her vision – this is before they met.

2 ideas that are maybe a little vague but I think feed into this existing connection:
-Kylo's pretty intense 'What girl?!' suggests he had a knowledge of a girl that was somehow important..
-I think their connection is also tied to the awakening of the force that takes place during TFA... and Snoke and Kylo both sensed the awakening before Kylo and Rey meet on Takodana.

Anyway, I tend to think there was already a connection, the connection changed in quality and strength, and was maybe fully awakened when the force was awakened – then Snoke comes along and boosts the signal or adds a quality to it. Does that work? Or is there something I’m not seeing here in all this?
@DeeBee

Didn't know about the force hounds but that makes me think tangentially of the show Supernatural, which utilize the concept of hellhounds:
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Hellhound

When Luke connected back to the force, he did see Rey in the force, shining like a sort of beacon, so maybe with Ben in the womb, he was a similar beacon that was picked up on Snoke's doppler?
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 10:15 am

Anybody seen the Last Jedi playing cards with Queen of Diamonds Rey and King of Clubs Kylo Ren?
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Post by Starliteprism on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 10:42 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:Anybody seen the Last Jedi playing cards with Queen of Diamonds Rey and King of Clubs Kylo Ren?
@Rei of Sunshine

In the same deck?
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Post by Tex on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 11:01 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:Anybody seen the Last Jedi playing cards with Queen of Diamonds Rey and King of Clubs Kylo Ren?
@Rei of Sunshine

That reminds me. When I went to my first showing of TLJ there was a married couple wearing matching Star Wars, playing card shirts. The husband had Darth Vader as the King of Clubs and the wife had TFA, Kylo Ren as the Jack of Hearts. They were really nice shirts. Wish I had asked where they'd gotten those from.
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Post by Starliteprism on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 11:23 am

@Tex wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:Anybody seen the Last Jedi playing cards with Queen of Diamonds Rey and King of Clubs Kylo Ren?
@Rei of Sunshine

That reminds me. When I went to my first showing of TLJ there was a married couple wearing matching Star Wars, playing card shirts. The husband had Darth Vader as the King of Clubs and the wife had TFA, Kylo Ren as the Jack of Hearts. They were really nice shirts. Wish I had asked where they'd gotten those from.
@Tex

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/430867889327782925/

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/334533078563692845/

Maybe check out pinterest as I bet it's not something entirely mainstream... Smile
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Post by Tex on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 11:38 am

@Starliteprism

Thanks for the links! I'll have to go searching the internet a bit and see what I find.
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Post by followmylead-kylodriver on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 12:11 pm

@snufkin wrote:@followmylead-kylodriver It's most likely he was able to do a signal boost to what already existed between Rey and Ben. Which LF confirmed after TLJ released was Larry Kasdan's idea about it being formed when they're in each other's minds during the Interrogation and there are plenty of Easter Eggs in TFA which show that they were already connected.  But he was lying his creepy wrinkled a** off in claiming to be the entire source of it. He just noticed something and thought he could use it to his benefit and fittingly it's what got him killed. The entire thing is a McGuffin just like the map was in TFA, it's about getting these two people together to talk and get to know one another.

Also in terms of 'bridging' that's a theme throughout the movie with the gag phone call at the beginning with Hux and Poe, Hux's "we have them tied on a string" line, and how Rey and Leia (who's the person Ben awoke to the Force to & is still connected to via the Force) are tied together with beacons to "guide her way home."
@snufkin

Wow, I never saw all those similarities before with the bridging stuff. I guess this could also explain why Rey and Leia seem to already know each other at the end of TFA when they hug? That always sorta perplexed me...

Sorry I'm unsure who "LF" is... I need to get up on my SW abbreviations!

Thank you for putting the image of Snoke's "creepy wrinkled a**" in my mind! Haha! Priceless...

You're so right that he got what he deserved!

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Post by followmylead-kylodriver on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 12:25 pm

@DeeBee wrote:
Original question spoilered for brevity.. :

@DeeBee wrote:Hi Everyone, I figure this is the place to ask... I have a question about Snoke and his targeting of Ben Solo.
I am not across the canon content that has covered that time period...
I'm thinking when Ben was born it had not been revealed to the galaxy that Leia was Luke's sister, and the daughter of Darth Vader.
Who knew at that point who her birth parents were?  
In TLJ we heard Snoke targeted Ben - knowing of his powerful bloodline and valuing that Darth Vader legacy.
How could Snoke have known Leia was Darth Vader's daughter when Ben was still in the womb?
Do we have answers to this at all? anyone?
Is this bloodlines and Aftermath that covers this?
Would love to hear your thoughts! Bye!
So fun to hear all your ideas! I know this is something we may never get answers to in SW, or if we do – they will maybe be a while coming.. so I was very curious to hear any thoughts!
@Apriljandy wrote:Hhmm. I think Snoke being all powerful can probably sense that Leia was of Skywalker blood, still not sure how he knew though.
@Apriljandy
-interesting idea.. yes maybe he came into contact with Leia through ordinary means and happened to sense her strong force ability.
Could be at least a partial explanation – as it doesn’t fully explain how he would know she was Vader’s daughter.
@Night Huntress wrote:@DeeBee
that's actually a very good question- how indeed? Confus  
You can always argue "through the force" but I feel that would be lazy storytelling. It makes the force such a plot device...which is OK sometimes, it's a fairy tale and "the force" is the SW version of "magic"- but if it's used too often it looses it's specialness.
Besides - even fantasy and fairy tales needs an in-universe logic otherwise it get's very confusing...
@Night Huntress
-Thanks Night Huntress! Yeah I hope for more than a ‘through the force’ type explanation too! I suspect there will be something in the story of Snoke identifying Ben Solo as Vader’s blood line that will tell us much about who he is and where he was all those empire years.. hmm.. [See the Snoke in IX thread for speculations if you are interested.]
@Starliteprism wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee Maybe Snoke was someone in their inner circle, or someone Luke met on his jedi travels and confided in. Or Snoke simply could have found out through the force.
I'm a fan of Luke meeting him on his travels, in some capacity, but pretty much was like kicking a hornet's nest.
@rawpowah  @Starliteprism
It was a very small inner circle.. makes me very curious indeed! How did Leia as Vader’s daughter get out there into the public eventually?
Trying to think of another source of this info… Dr Aphra killed Padme’s midwife… and Dr.Aphra only knew about the one child didn’t she? I think so?
Yes there is always the old ‘he found them through the force!’ I don’t know if it’s canon but in Legends there are force hounds who can sniff out strong force users.. still.. how would Snoke have known the vader connection? Seems that is a main reason why Kylo/Ben was targeted.

Luke confiding in someone on his travels – my first instinct here is that he would not have confided this information to anyone.
But you guys got me thinking – we know that one of Snoke’s main force abilities is telepathy – maybe disguised Snoke met Luke Skywalker on his travels (he had identified Luke as someone dangerous and to watch – as he knew the cosmic force favoured him) and through telepathy Snoke found out Vader was Luke’s father, and Leia was his sister.
Or Palpatine told Snoke about Luke Skywalker being Vader’s son and then Snoke through telepathy identified Leia as his sister… Or a member of the inner circle blabbed…
There are a few possibilities! LOL I bet we are way off and it’s something else haaa.

@MrsWindu - thank you soooo much for sharing this great lightsaber info. that the Rey's light saber broke apart because of an overload of energy is new. I have no heard it expressed this way before!

@followmylead-kylodriver -Awh thanks! You made my day! Glad you enjoyed a little SW poetry! Welcome to the forum!  Very Happy
@followmylead-kylodriver wrote:Got another question re: Snoke... forgive me if this has already been discussed - I'm new here.
What are your thoughts about Snoke and the Force Time stuff? So Snoke claims that it was he that 'bridged their minds', which of course shocks Rey and outrages Kylo. Is this true? Is he just messing with them? They can still connect after Snoke is dead (*phew!*) so what does that mean? If he ISN'T responsible for bridging their minds, how does he even know about their Force Time sessions?
@followmylead-kylodriver
There has been lots of discussions about this – But you ask a really interesting question!
Starting out it can be fun finding your way around.. you might like to read these threads: https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t708-force-bond-logistics-implications  & https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t766-the-force-bond-is-not-closed
@snufkin – I like the ‘signal boost’ idea!

My current thinking is: judging by Snoke’s POV revealed in TLJ novelisation, Snoke genuinely believes he has bridged their minds and that it is all his own doing. I.e. without him they would not have formed this connection. I believe this is some hubris on Snoke’s part, but it shows Snoke was not ‘lying’. He was just over estimating what he was responsible for. The star wars databank confirms Snoke was manipulating the connection that was growing stronger here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Snoke_11
-I do love this pic! lol.

Some believe the bond formed or their minds were bridged during the interrogation. I tend be less clearly defined than that.. the bond over time has likely changed in quality and intensity - that would be hard to pin down.. But I think a 'connection' was there before the interrogation and Snoke, because Kylo/Ben was already sensing a ‘strange connection’ with Rey when he first spotted her on Takodana. I figure it's why he took her (maybe JJ said that on the commentary too? not sure..). This 'connection' is mentioned on the star wars databank here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Kylo_b10
and there is the moment in the force vision when Rey sees Kylo and Kylo seems to see Rey in her vision – this is before they met.

2 ideas that are maybe a little vague but I think feed into this existing connection:
-Kylo's pretty intense 'What girl?!' suggests he had a knowledge of a girl that was somehow important..
-I think their connection is also tied to the awakening of the force that takes place during TFA... and Snoke and Kylo both sensed the awakening before Kylo and Rey meet on Takodana.

Anyway, I tend to think there was already a connection, the connection changed in quality and strength, and was maybe fully awakened when the force was awakened – then Snoke comes along and boosts the signal or adds a quality to it. Does that work? Or is there something I’m not seeing here in all this?
@DeeBee

Thank you, I will definitely check out those threads!

I appreciate your detailed reply and the great pictures. (I love that picture too!)

The idea of Snoke 'boosting the signal' is an interesting one. I guess if Snoke was used to manipulating Ben's mind he would be well aware of his contact with and premonitions about Rey.

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Post by snufkin on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 12:33 pm

@followmylead-kylodriver - LF = Lucasfilm

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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 1:48 pm

@Starliteprism wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:Anybody seen the Last Jedi playing cards with Queen of Diamonds Rey and King of Clubs Kylo Ren?
@Rei of Sunshine

In the same deck?
@Starliteprism

Yeah. It's Resistance vs. FO themed. I havent really seen the whole deck art since I just encountered the post in the FB Reylo group. So I'm guessing the Clubs and Spades are FO since they're the black suites and Hearts and Diamonds are red so Resistance.

I was hoping someone already posted it here hehe
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Post by Starliteprism on Fri 20 Apr 2018, 4:40 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Starliteprism wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:Anybody seen the Last Jedi playing cards with Queen of Diamonds Rey and King of Clubs Kylo Ren?
@Rei of Sunshine

In the same deck?
@Starliteprism

Yeah. It's Resistance vs. FO themed. I havent really seen the whole deck art since I just encountered the post in the FB Reylo group. So I'm guessing the Clubs and Spades are FO since they're the black suites and Hearts and Diamonds are red so Resistance.

I was hoping someone already posted it here hehe
@Rei of Sunshine

Here is the deck from TFA.
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Post by Mana on Sat 21 Apr 2018, 7:24 am

I didn’t know where else to post this on the forum or if it's already been posted, but Nonesuch is conducting a survey for Reylo shippers and I thought shippers on the forum who are also active on Tumblr would be interested in participating:

Reylo Shipper Survey
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 21 Apr 2018, 9:28 am

@Mana wrote:I didn’t know where else to post this on the forum or if it's already been posted, but Nonesuch is conducting a survey for Reylo shippers and I thought shippers on the forum who are also active on Tumblr would be interested in participating:

Reylo Shipper Survey
@Mana

Just taken part, nice little survey.
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Post by DeeBee on Sat 21 Apr 2018, 8:09 pm

@followmylead-kylodriver - yeah I'm so glad Snoke is out of Kylo/Ben's head now!

Conversation spoilered for brevity.. :

@DeeBee wrote:
So fun to hear all your ideas! I know this is something we may never get answers to in SW, or if we do – they will maybe be a while coming.. so I was very curious to hear any thoughts!
@Apriljandy wrote:Hhmm. I think Snoke being all powerful can probably sense that Leia was of Skywalker blood, still not sure how he knew though.
@Apriljandy
-interesting idea.. yes maybe he came into contact with Leia through ordinary means and happened to sense her strong force ability.
Could be at least a partial explanation – as it doesn’t fully explain how he would know she was Vader’s daughter.
@Night Huntress wrote:@DeeBee
that's actually a very good question- how indeed? Confus  
You can always argue "through the force" but I feel that would be lazy storytelling. It makes the force such a plot device...which is OK sometimes, it's a fairy tale and "the force" is the SW version of "magic"- but if it's used too often it looses it's specialness.
Besides - even fantasy and fairy tales needs an in-universe logic otherwise it get's very confusing...
@Night Huntress
-Thanks Night Huntress! Yeah I hope for more than a ‘through the force’ type explanation too! I suspect there will be something in the story of Snoke identifying Ben Solo as Vader’s blood line that will tell us much about who he is and where he was all those empire years.. hmm.. [See the Snoke in IX thread for speculations if you are interested.]
@Starliteprism wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee Maybe Snoke was someone in their inner circle, or someone Luke met on his jedi travels and confided in. Or Snoke simply could have found out through the force.
I'm a fan of Luke meeting him on his travels, in some capacity, but pretty much was like kicking a hornet's nest.
@rawpowah  @Starliteprism
It was a very small inner circle.. makes me very curious indeed! How did Leia as Vader’s daughter get out there into the public eventually?
Trying to think of another source of this info… Dr Aphra killed Padme’s midwife… and Dr.Aphra only knew about the one child didn’t she? I think so?
Yes there is always the old ‘he found them through the force!’ I don’t know if it’s canon but in Legends there are force hounds who can sniff out strong force users.. still.. how would Snoke have known the vader connection? Seems that is a main reason why Kylo/Ben was targeted.

Luke confiding in someone on his travels – my first instinct here is that he would not have confided this information to anyone.
But you guys got me thinking – we know that one of Snoke’s main force abilities is telepathy – maybe disguised Snoke met Luke Skywalker on his travels (he had identified Luke as someone dangerous and to watch – as he knew the cosmic force favoured him) and through telepathy Snoke found out Vader was Luke’s father, and Leia was his sister.
Or Palpatine told Snoke about Luke Skywalker being Vader’s son and then Snoke through telepathy identified Leia as his sister… Or a member of the inner circle blabbed…
There are a few possibilities! LOL I bet we are way off and it’s something else haaa.

@MrsWindu - thank you soooo much for sharing this great lightsaber info. that the Rey's light saber broke apart because of an overload of energy is new. I have no heard it expressed this way before!

@followmylead-kylodriver -Awh thanks! You made my day! Glad you enjoyed a little SW poetry! Welcome to the forum!  Very Happy
@followmylead-kylodriver wrote:Got another question re: Snoke... forgive me if this has already been discussed - I'm new here.
What are your thoughts about Snoke and the Force Time stuff? So Snoke claims that it was he that 'bridged their minds', which of course shocks Rey and outrages Kylo. Is this true? Is he just messing with them? They can still connect after Snoke is dead (*phew!*) so what does that mean? If he ISN'T responsible for bridging their minds, how does he even know about their Force Time sessions?
@followmylead-kylodriver
There has been lots of discussions about this – But you ask a really interesting question!
Starting out it can be fun finding your way around.. you might like to read these threads: https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t708-force-bond-logistics-implications  & https://www.reyloskyforum.net/t766-the-force-bond-is-not-closed
@snufkin – I like the ‘signal boost’ idea!

My current thinking is: judging by Snoke’s POV revealed in TLJ novelisation, Snoke genuinely believes he has bridged their minds and that it is all his own doing. I.e. without him they would not have formed this connection. I believe this is some hubris on Snoke’s part, but it shows Snoke was not ‘lying’. He was just over estimating what he was responsible for. The star wars databank confirms Snoke was manipulating the connection that was growing stronger here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Snoke_11
-I do love this pic! lol.

Some believe the bond formed or their minds were bridged during the interrogation. I tend be less clearly defined than that.. the bond over time has likely changed in quality and intensity - that would be hard to pin down.. But I think a 'connection' was there before the interrogation and Snoke, because Kylo/Ben was already sensing a ‘strange connection’ with Rey when he first spotted her on Takodana. I figure it's why he took her (maybe JJ said that on the commentary too? not sure..). This 'connection' is mentioned on the star wars databank here:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 12 Kylo_b10
and there is the moment in the force vision when Rey sees Kylo and Kylo seems to see Rey in her vision – this is before they met.

2 ideas that are maybe a little vague but I think feed into this existing connection:
-Kylo's pretty intense 'What girl?!' suggests he had a knowledge of a girl that was somehow important..
-I think their connection is also tied to the awakening of the force that takes place during TFA... and Snoke and Kylo both sensed the awakening before Kylo and Rey meet on Takodana.

Anyway, I tend to think there was already a connection, the connection changed in quality and strength, and was maybe fully awakened when the force was awakened – then Snoke comes along and boosts the signal or adds a quality to it. Does that work? Or is there something I’m not seeing here in all this?

@Starliteprism wrote: @DeeBee  
Didn't know about the force hounds but that makes me think tangentially of the show Supernatural, which utilize the concept of hellhounds:
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Hellhound

When Luke connected back to the force, he did see Rey in the force, shining like a sort of beacon, so maybe with Ben in the womb, he was a similar beacon that was picked up on Snoke's doppler?
@Starliteprism
hellhounds? they sound scary!
Yeah that novelisation description of how Luke could see Rey once he had reconnected to the force is cool! 'Snoke's doppler'? haaa I love it!
The whole idea that if you are strong in the force you have nowhere to hide is quite a scary one!
With this comes threat - I can see why the Jedi decided to band together and form an order - as a way to foster and protect force users.. They weren't all bad!
I guess a 'force hound' could identify you [if they end up existing in canon] - but they can't necessarily identify a secret bloodline. But.. uh oh. telepathy could do that!
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Post by Starliteprism on Sun 22 Apr 2018, 3:42 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Mana wrote:I didn’t know where else to post this on the forum or if it's already been posted, but Nonesuch is conducting a survey for Reylo shippers and I thought shippers on the forum who are also active on Tumblr would be interested in participating:

Reylo Shipper Survey
@Mana

Just taken part, nice little survey.
@motherofpearl1

So, where is the information going after people complete the survey and for what purpose? I don't think you can necessarily categorize a Reylo, as would suspect there is quite the variation of folks across the board.
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Post by Mana on Sun 22 Apr 2018, 5:11 am

@Starliteprism wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Mana wrote:I didn’t know where else to post this on the forum or if it's already been posted, but Nonesuch is conducting a survey for Reylo shippers and I thought shippers on the forum who are also active on Tumblr would be interested in participating:

Reylo Shipper Survey
@Mana

Just taken part, nice little survey.
@motherofpearl1

So, where is the information going after people complete the survey and for what purpose? I don't think you can necessarily categorize a Reylo, as would suspect there is quite the variation of folks across the board.
@Starliteprism

It's just something to do for fun I guess and to see how diverse we really are as a group. You don’t have to participate if you feel like it's pointless...
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 22 Apr 2018, 5:13 am

Well, there is where I'm concerned!! I actually saw TFA because of Reylo....didn't really fancy it much until I read some Reylo fanfiction on AoA and got curious as to what inspired it. I now love the ST as much as I did the OT. Regarding Force hounds...I used to read the X Men comics,and in one of their 'alternate reality' dystopian futures there was a mutant telepath named Rachel who was forced to use her gift to hunt down other mutants. She was called a 'hound'. So it could be a term regarding humans.
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