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Post by californiagirl on Tue 15 Dec 2020, 5:54 pm

TLJ is 3 years old today, lost of love on the timeline.

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Post by californiagirl on Tue 15 Dec 2020, 9:35 pm

Also, I've probably shared Patrick's videos long ago, but he does continue to nail it. (I'd throw Terrio and probably Iger/Disney execs in there too.)

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 16 Dec 2020, 12:16 am

The more I see of Rian Johnson the more I wish he'd done the entire trilogy. Not only a fine filmmaker but a genuinely decent man. I have so much respect for him.
I hope one day he works with Adam and Kelly again.
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Post by Saracene on Wed 16 Dec 2020, 2:38 am

I'd argue that the lack of plan for the trilogy is what made it possible for the terrible 3rd movie to happen. When you play the writer/director relay with no real plan behind it all, you open the door for the next person to go with their own whims and their own personal view of the story and characters. Now, that can work reasonably ok going from the first movie to the middle one, but it's an absolute disaster for the third movie.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 16 Dec 2020, 3:24 am

I think TFA benefitted from Lawrence Kasdan, but DLF seem to have driven a lot of the more talented and 'old time' SW writers away.

What saddens me is the waste of what could have truly been an epic love story between Rey and Kylo/Ben. There was so much chemistry between them in TFA and TLJ. With TROS, DLF threw the lot away to satisfy a few tiresome woke individuals that see something nasty where there never was, and Finn fans who wanted Finn/Rey. I say the latter because I've noticed quite a few of the Kylo/Rian haters are intense Finn fans, and believe that Reylo was 'racist'. What they really are peeved about is simply their favourite character didn't get Rey. Never mind that he had two beautiful ladies after him, only Rey apparently was good enough. Judging by some interviews he did JB feels the same way.

Now looking back over the entire trilogy it looks as if Rey, despite the kiss and 'I wanted to take Ben's hand' never returned Kylo/Ben's feelings. He very obviously was in love with her, but was she in love with him? She went to try and 'turn' him at the end of TLJ but made it plain her entire purpose was to save the Resistance - 'he could win this war.' According to the novel she spared his life on the Supremacy because 'it was the will of the Force', not because she cared for him. She twice struck him down while unarmed - once on Starkiller, again on Exegol. Kylo meanwhile spared her life more than once, when he could have killed her.
I foresee future media in which it's established that the person Rey really loved all along was Finn. I guess it'll make some people happy.

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Post by Saracene on Wed 16 Dec 2020, 5:17 am

I got the impression that the writers were torn between wanting a Kylo/Rey romance and having to satisfy the modern notion of "healthy romance", where Rey would only be allowed to express her romantic feelings after Ben turned the corner and moved towards redemption. The problem is that Rey wasn't just kept from acting romantically towards Ben until he redeemed himself, which is what a lot of Reylos predicted; her romantic feelings couldn't be directly acknowledged at all until the very end of the movie. It's like writing Jane Eyre and never making it clear that yes, Jane was very much in love with Rochester when she rejected him, and instead couching it in terms of generic kindness or dedication to a noble cause. It's little wonder that, for a large chunk of the audience, the TRoS kiss came out of nowhere, especially when it was Rey who initiated it.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 16 Dec 2020, 7:15 am

@Saracene wrote:I got the impression that the writers were torn between wanting a Kylo/Rey romance and having to satisfy the modern notion of "healthy romance", where Rey would only be allowed to express her romantic feelings after Ben turned the corner and moved towards redemption. The problem is that Rey wasn't just kept from acting romantically towards Ben until he redeemed himself, which is what a lot of Reylos predicted; her romantic feelings couldn't be directly acknowledged at all until the very end of the movie. It's like writing Jane Eyre and never making it clear that yes, Jane was very much in love with Rochester when she rejected him, and instead couching it in terms of generic kindness or dedication to a noble cause. It's little wonder that, for a large chunk of the audience, the TRoS kiss came out of nowhere, especially when it was Rey who initiated it.
@Saracene

Okay, a lot of people might disagree with me here, but I have never seen Kylo and Ben as two different people. 'Kylo Ren' was the armour Ben Solo hid behind. For all his apparent ruthlessness, he regretted executing the villagers on Jakku, as shown by him sparing Finn's life as he shared the same disquiet. He almost didn't kill his father on Starkiller and when he did regretted it immediately. His psychological and physical abuse at the hands of Snoke made him think showing compassion was weakness. Throughout every thing he did, Ben Solo was always still there behind the mask of Kylo Ren - and I'm not talking about the actual mask - and therefore there would always be a bit of Kylo in Ben.

I wanted Rey to accept both sides of his character, the charming pirate's son and the broken man he hid behind. That's not saying she should agree with him wiping out the Resistance of course, but I didn't want her to be so judgemental. Beauty and the Beast BOTH had to bend before they fell in love. Rey made it very clear she wanted Ben not Kylo, and the novel hammered this home - 'she would have liked to get to know Ben Solo but she could never love Kylo Ren.'
Apparently he wasn't 'worthy' of the great goddess Rey. But just exactly what made Rey so 'worthy?'
She had a temper, as shown by the way she sliced open his face on Starkiller. Notice how this was AFTER she'd disarmed him. She attacked Finn just because BB accused him of stealing Poe's jacket. She attacked Luke from behind in TLJ. Three times she assaulted unarmed men. Not something the Jedi would like.
And I'm sorry but I was horrified when she reached for the lightsabre at the end of TLJ. I expected her to say 'no'. She could easily have said 'I can't be with you if you kill my friends' and turned her back on him. But she reached for a weapon. Why would she feel threatened? Ben killed Snoke for her. He fought back to back with her. He offered her his hand. He was NOT a threat, and she knew it, but responded as if he was.
This is why the re imagining of Rey as some sort of 'saint' of the Force is so jarring to me. She is too flawed, too 'dark' to ever be some kind of 'perfect' example of what a Jedi should be. Her flaws, her capacity for darkness are two of the reasons I like her character so much. And why I was so disappointed in her character arc in TROS.

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Post by AhsokaTano on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 4:38 pm

So Den of Nerds just tweeted this . As I’ve mentioned in the sequel trilogy thread few days ago he’s working with kessel run transmissions now and they all got numerous scoops right this year including recent Mandalorian leaks .

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 04 Jan 2021, 4:47 pm

Sounds interesting.
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Post by Saracene on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 1:27 am

That... could be interpreted in a couple of different ways depending on what their personal view of Reylo is?
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Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 3:01 am

Hope it isn’t negative Sad . No more news yet ( as he discusses marvel and DC spoilers and leaks too) but he has now added the blue butterfly to his profile which he didn’t have before .
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 3:19 am

Ditto, but doesn't it show how disillusioned and cynical we have become?
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Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 3:26 am

Yeah .To be honest I would be more excited for Ben Solo news rather than reylo as reylo could mean anything ie a pregnancy and that he’s not coming back . I’ve got to the stage that I just want Ben back and that now takes precedence for me over reylo itself . Just give us Ben back Sad
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 3:38 am

Ben Solo being alive is what I've always wanted ever since I first knew TROS was coming out. Sadly for me I no longer have any love for Rey as a character.
"I could never love Kylo Ren," "I am all the Jedi" and the infamous stabbing scene has destroyed my affection for the character. Rey is a judgemental prig now. Not the character I liked and admired in TFA, and up to the end TLJ.
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Post by Kyla Ren on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 5:19 am

I don't think the tweet is implying anything negative.  I used to sometimes watch Den of Nerds' videos and he was pro Reylo.  I don't want to get my hopes up too much, though, because I doubt it means anything really huge is in the works, like that Disney is making a Reylo movie or anything like that, although of course I would be thrilled if that were the case.  Maybe it just means that there will be books or comics or something that take place after the ST where Ben will come back and we'll get a happy Reylo ending after all.  It wouldn't be the same as having it play out on the big screen, but it would be better than nothing.  I still can't get over how they ended things in TROS. Sad
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 5:42 am

Neither can I. Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad
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Post by unicorn on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 10:45 am

Ditto.

We shall see. It will probably be sth. silly or a more or less meaningless detail to cheer up the silly reylos.
Nothing huge like a book or a show with a resurrected Ben Solo after TROS.
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Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 10:49 am

Brace yourselves I love you:
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 10:50 am

They seem to take a malicious delight in building up hopes then destroying them. I f you re watch the trailers for TROS, they all hint that Ben is the Skywalker, in the title, from his theme turning so hopeful and uplifting to Luke saying that 'everything we know has been passed on' and 'we will always be with you'.....but it turned out to be Mary Sue Palpatine.
So...not excited. Sorry.
'Young' Ben...another prequel. We know how his story ends.
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Post by unicorn on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 11:07 am

okay, so much ado about nothing, as was to be expected. That´s the reason why I don´t care much anymore.

I don´t get why I should be hyped to see Ben Solo in live action as a boy?
I know the character is already dead in the future and that´s it. Nothing to see here.
Same for the fact that this guy will argue pro Reylo (or whatever) with the fandom menace. Who cares? I clearly not.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 11:20 am

Guess what? DLF are trying to milk the character for all his worth because they now know killing him off and replacing him with Fakewalker was a colossal mistake. Their fault.
We know Ben Solo is gone. We are NOT INTERESTED in seeing someone else play him as a kid in the past when WE KNOW HOW THE STORY ENDS.
Disney, you chose to end Ben Solo's story with Palpatine's succubus granddaughter draining him of his life Force so she could steal his ship, his lightsabre and his family name. You turned him into a nonentity whose function was to see that Palpatine's seed lives on as some kind of weird 'gift' to the galaxy.
Act like a Xmas turkey and get stuffed, the lot of you.
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Post by unicorn on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 12:31 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Guess what? DLF are trying to milk the character for all his worth because they now know killing him off and replacing him with Fakewalker was a colossal mistake. Their fault.
We know Ben Solo is gone. We are NOT INTERESTED in seeing someone else play him as a kid in the past when WE KNOW HOW THE STORY ENDS.

@motherofpearl1
Of course, they want money. And maybe they think it works with the silly Reylos the same way it works with the Luke and Vader crowd. Shoehorn them in somewhere, and the groopies will eat it up, no matter wat.  
I think they don´t even get what "Reylo" made so appealing as a concept. For those people it´s probably only throwing a bone to a silly bunch of girlies who find AD "hot", and who will find a young Ben Solo "sweet". Nope.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 1:02 pm

Well said. I'll never forget Oldadastra on tumblr saying one of the most poignant things I've ever read after TROS....that Ben reminded her of her own sons.
Reylo has many fans. Some young, some old (like myself), some in between. There are married women, gay and bisexual women, men, of both sexual orientations....all who loved the Reylo fandom. And TROS didn't just destroy Ben, it destroyed Rey. She isn't 'real', not anymore. She is a remote inhuman creature who acts like the avatar of a cold, judgemental version of the Force that I don't like. What is so ironic is that JJ seems to have forgotten that Luke, who Rey is based on, was NOTHING like that. Right or wrong he chose his friends when they were in danger, rather than 'the cause'. He refused to kill his own father, no matter what he'd become. Rey is nothing like Luke.
He was a human being, warts and all.
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Post by Saracene on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 2:00 pm

If it’s just about young Ben, not sure why he’s singling out Reylos specifically when the character is pretty popular in general?

@motherofpearl1 wrote:They seem to take a malicious delight in building up hopes then destroying them. I f you re watch the trailers for TROS, they all hint that Ben is the Skywalker, in the title, from his theme turning so hopeful and uplifting to Luke saying that 'everything we know has been passed on' and 'we will always be with you'.....but it turned out to be Mary Sue Palpatine.
@motherofpearl1

That Rey was front and centre in the first TRoS trailer was one of the first warning signs for me. Fact is, Reylos put way too much faith into “hints” and interpretations when most of the marketing for TRoS was actually upfront about what the movie is about, i.e. Rey and the trio. We just chose to ignore that.
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Post by AhsokaTano on Tue 05 Jan 2021, 2:23 pm

@Saracene
Good point ! I know Ben Solo fans who aren’t reylos - I was cautious because he said reylo fans . Reylo and Ben Solo fans aren’t the same thing . Yes you can be both though . Strange wording . I am hoping they do something different with Ben as we didn’t see a force ghost . Maybe through the dyad he can return ( as it’s a bond linking them beyond time and space ) or maybe like Gandalf and Neo in the matrix he will return from death in another way . I keep thinking of that quote about Ben solo - “with the blood of a scroundrel and a princess in his veins his defiance will shake the stars “ and how his name literally means “only son” . Like Neo, Jesus messiah figures and Loki he is both a prince and a trickster and a magician . He resurrects others before he can himself . I just don’t think we are finished with his story yet . And in the words of kylo when he discovers rey and his force bond dyad “this is something new “. I may be delusional clinging on to hope I know but that’s me . Sigh ! I love you
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