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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by Gemini on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:29 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:One of the biggest arguments for Kylo living that really hits home why it’s a bad idea to kill him off, regardless of whether he manages to do what Anakin didn’t and how well it’s executed is our protagonist. Someone posted this on twitter yesterday and it just really solidified it

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 20 D1b39b10

Don’t do her dirty like this JJ
@Kylo Rey

Cuz strong womans! 2019
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:30 pm

I also think a huge thing that is being overlooked is the emphasis on the Skywalker name in this film. It's not just about Rey's relationship to Luke or Leia. Sideous is going to exclusively refer to Ben and his family as "the Skywalkers", and in Rey's presence as well. We have a few different examples already including Palpatine wanting to wipe the Skywalkers away for revenge. While it's certainly not earned within the context of the two films we have now, I'm not going to say that Rey, Rey Skywalker cannot be earned within this individual film because let's face it, it's called The Rise of Skywalker. The name "Skywalker" will be a massively important as its own set piece within this movie.
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Post by special_cases on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:32 pm

I once dated a guy with the same surname as mine. That's all I can say on this matter...
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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:34 pm

@special_cases wrote:I once dated a guy with the same surname as mine. That's all I can say on this matter...
@special_cases

lol
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Post by Saracene on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:40 pm

I’ll be honest, when the whole Rey Skywalker thing first came up and sounded plausible despite feeling completely unearned, I had a sinking feeling that Ben’s chances of survival nosedived. All this time, I believed that they wouldn’t want to kill him off partly because Skywalker family is such a moneymaker for Disney, but if they were going to anoint Rey as the Skywalker successor then it was possible that they wouldn’t want a real blood Skywalker hanging around to confuse matters. Especially if they were also going for a romantic angle; if he’s going to live and they might have a future together... why would they give her the name Skywalker and deliberately bring in vague incest undertones? It’s just a cleaner resolution if he dies, if you look at it from a cold perspective where Rey Skywalker is the most important outcome of the story.

If this ending really happens, I think I’m going to wish that Rey was Luke’s daughter to begin with and we had a real continuation of the family drama, instead of the Skywalker family getting killed off one by one so that a new girl could swoop in and get everything. Because that’s what really irks me about the whole thing, not that Ben dies or that the Skywalker family is gone, but that they do so to essentially prop up Rey’s story.
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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:41 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:I’m willing to overlook a lot of dumb stuff as long as Ben Solo lives. The thing that’s surprised me in the leaks the most is that we get canon, explicit Reylo AND he dies. I always figured that he would either die and it would be left ambiguous or that he would survive and get that HEA. Not a mixture.

Reading reactions to the leaks, and yeah, a lot of people do want him to live. And when he steals the third movie in a row, people are gonna he mad when he doesn’t.
@Kylo Rey

I think it's funny because it's a fairytale kiss but subverted in the worse way. He kisses the girl and DIES lmao.
@Piper Maru

Guys I went out a few hours and I can't recover your posts anymore!

I want to add the description "kisses and dies" seems the exact description of the kiss for a fanboy. Laughing

Love kills. Let's put it in the phrases of the lucky cookie.
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Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:46 pm

@Saracene wrote:I’ll be honest, when the whole Rey Skywalker thing first came up and sounded plausible despite feeling completely unearned, I had a sinking feeling that Ben’s chances of survival nosedived. All this time, I believed that they wouldn’t want to kill him off partly because Skywalker family is such a moneymaker for Disney, but if they were going to anoint Rey as the Skywalker successor then it was possible that they wouldn’t want a real blood Skywalker hanging around to confuse matters. Especially if they were also going for a romantic angle; if he’s going to live and they might have a future together... why would they give her the name Skywalker and deliberately bring in vague incest undertones? It’s just a cleaner resolution if he dies, if you look at it from a cold perspective where Rey Skywalker is the most important outcome of the story.

If this ending really happens, I think I’m going to wish that Rey was Luke’s daughter to begin with and we had a real continuation of the family drama, instead of the Skywalker family getting killed off one by one so that a new girl could swoop in and get everything. Because that’s what really irks me about the whole thing, not that Ben dies or that the Skywalker family is gone, but that they do so to essentially prop up Rey’s story.
@Saracene

Well, good luck to them if they think they can slap on the Skywalker name on the protagonist while killing them all off (as if they aren’t one of the most iconic, enduring families in pop culture) and continue with trio adventures. The gulf in hype between all the trio marketing and that single clip released yesterday was hilariously huge. Guess they don’t like money after all.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:53 pm

@Saracene wrote:I’ll be honest, when the whole Rey Skywalker thing first came up and sounded plausible despite feeling completely unearned, I had a sinking feeling that Ben’s chances of survival nosedived. All this time, I believed that they wouldn’t want to kill him off partly because Skywalker family is such a moneymaker for Disney, but if they were going to anoint Rey as the Skywalker successor then it was possible that they wouldn’t want a real blood Skywalker hanging around to confuse matters. Especially if they were also going for a romantic angle; if he’s going to live and they might have a future together... why would they give her the name Skywalker and deliberately bring in vague incest undertones? It’s just a cleaner resolution if he dies, if you look at it from a cold perspective where Rey Skywalker is the most important outcome of the story.

If this ending really happens, I think I’m going to wish that Rey was Luke’s daughter to begin with and we had a real continuation of the family drama, instead of the Skywalker family getting killed off one by one so that a new girl could swoop in and get everything. Because that’s what really irks me about the whole thing, not that Ben dies or that the Skywalker family is gone, but that they do so to essentially prop up Rey’s story.
@Saracene
It relied on the hilarity of "never to be seen again" for me. It could have gone either way. Clearly those of us who were saying over and over that something was missing were right, it was just the details that made Ben's death significantly more emotional, conclusive and palatable, and in many ways that makes sense. "Never to be seen again" was absolute nonsense no matter how you slice it and the actual sequence will likely be very good, but I'll freely admit that I am more of a Rey fan than you are and I believe I could like this ending in execution even if I find it very sad for all the characters.
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Post by special_cases on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:55 pm

@Saracene wrote:I’ll be honest, when the whole Rey Skywalker thing first came up and sounded plausible despite feeling completely unearned, I had a sinking feeling that Ben’s chances of survival nosedived. All this time, I believed that they wouldn’t want to kill him off partly because Skywalker family is such a moneymaker for Disney, but if they were going to anoint Rey as the Skywalker successor then it was possible that they wouldn’t want a real blood Skywalker hanging around to confuse matters. Especially if they were also going for a romantic angle; if he’s going to live and they might have a future together... why would they give her the name Skywalker and deliberately bring in vague incest undertones? It’s just a cleaner resolution if he dies, if you look at it from a cold perspective where Rey Skywalker is the most important outcome of the story.

If this ending really happens, I think I’m going to wish that Rey was Luke’s daughter to begin with and we had a real continuation of the family drama, instead of the Skywalker family getting killed off one by one so that a new girl could swoop in and get everything. Because that’s what really irks me about the whole thing, not that Ben dies or that the Skywalker family is gone, but that they do so to essentially prop up Rey’s story.
@Saracene

Yes. It's not just Ben's death as event itself. It's about Ben's death being a prop for Rey becoming as the Skywalker successor.

They want Rey to be Skywalker but they didn't want her to be blood related and they didn't want to romance to be a story's goal so they decided to... it be something in the middle and it won't land gracefully. All of this is either ambiguous or unearned. No clarity. Myths require clarity. It requires big things.
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Post by Moonjump05 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 2:58 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I’ll be honest, when the whole Rey Skywalker thing first came up and sounded plausible despite feeling completely unearned, I had a sinking feeling that Ben’s chances of survival nosedived. All this time, I believed that they wouldn’t want to kill him off partly because Skywalker family is such a moneymaker for Disney, but if they were going to anoint Rey as the Skywalker successor then it was possible that they wouldn’t want a real blood Skywalker hanging around to confuse matters. Especially if they were also going for a romantic angle; if he’s going to live and they might have a future together... why would they give her the name Skywalker and deliberately bring in vague incest undertones? It’s just a cleaner resolution if he dies, if you look at it from a cold perspective where Rey Skywalker is the most important outcome of the story.

If this ending really happens, I think I’m going to wish that Rey was Luke’s daughter to begin with and we had a real continuation of the family drama, instead of the Skywalker family getting killed off one by one so that a new girl could swoop in and get everything. Because that’s what really irks me about the whole thing, not that Ben dies or that the Skywalker family is gone, but that they do so to essentially prop up Rey’s story.
@Saracene

Well, good luck to them if they think they can slap on the Skywalker name on the protagonist while killing them all off (as if they aren’t one of the most iconic, enduring families in pop culture) and continue with trio adventures. The gulf in hype between all the trio marketing and that single clip released yesterday was hilariously huge. Guess they don’t like money after all.
@Kylo Rey

Yeah, color me cynical but... Kylo is the iconic character. Killing him off and trying to pass Rey off as a 'new' Skywalker is... dumb.
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Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:00 pm

Kylo is my favourite character... like ever. And in a few days time he might be dead. Lol, great. And after these terrible election results as well. Sucks for UK Reylos. We could really use a HEA for the escapism right now.
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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:01 pm

Do you remember when some of you speculated that a priestess was telling Yoda: " there is another Skywalker ..."

Here and if it was Rey?

And if Palpatine needed to steal the energies of the elect to live?

But in the end who are the Skywalkers in front of the universe?

All this sounds interesting. it's true?

What is not interesting is investing my time for a story in which the female protagonist leaves alone and returns alone.
And the male protagonist realizes he has been teased all his life, then he rebels and dies.

I still think that Rey will return to Taootine but with Ben's spirit inside her, or Ben's baby in the belly. But it remains and will be a depressing ending. In particular for people who still believe, or rather dream it with fantasy, that love saves all wounds.

It's time for women to write stories. Disney if you're reading here, take the example of goodreads' most award-winning books in 2019. I read  almost all and rewarded them all. Choose stories well written and not plots for fanboys.
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Post by Riri on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:03 pm

Even the guy who posted the Japanese screening leaks seemed bummed out that they only showed trio footage. Kylo is absolutely huge in Japan!

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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:04 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:Kylo is my favourite character... like ever. And in a few days time he might be dead. Lol, great. And after these terrible election results as well. Sucks for UK Reylos. We could really use a HEA for the escapism right now.
@Kylo Rey

Friend, I'm close to you. I live in Italy and wonder how it is possible what is going on. But they are historical phases, courses and recourses as some would say.

However, except in Star Wars, there is always hope.
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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:05 pm

@Riri wrote:Even the guy who posted the Japanese screening leaks seemed bummed out that they only showed trio footage. Kylo is absolutely huge in Japan!
@Riri

In fact it is shocking.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:09 pm

I honestly expect Rey's conclusion to be significantly more heavily criticized than Ben's, and not just from the more spiteful perspective of those angry she's being handed the legacy or whatever. His will, at the very least, feel mostly earned, emotional and have a lasting impact that echoes previous characters and trilogies, especially Anakin's relationship with Padme at the end of RotS with how Ben gives up his life for the woman he loves rather than symbolically stealing it away. I think it'll be played as epic and spiritual, not sad, and that's going to help a lot. Rey is the one who likely ends up back on a desert planet alone with droids and ghosts, and that's just... well, you know. I get what JJ is trying to say with this ending, but it's very sad when you think about it for more than 2 seconds.
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Post by Saracene on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:10 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I’ll be honest, when the whole Rey Skywalker thing first came up and sounded plausible despite feeling completely unearned, I had a sinking feeling that Ben’s chances of survival nosedived. All this time, I believed that they wouldn’t want to kill him off partly because Skywalker family is such a moneymaker for Disney, but if they were going to anoint Rey as the Skywalker successor then it was possible that they wouldn’t want a real blood Skywalker hanging around to confuse matters. Especially if they were also going for a romantic angle; if he’s going to live and they might have a future together... why would they give her the name Skywalker and deliberately bring in vague incest undertones? It’s just a cleaner resolution if he dies, if you look at it from a cold perspective where Rey Skywalker is the most important outcome of the story.

If this ending really happens, I think I’m going to wish that Rey was Luke’s daughter to begin with and we had a real continuation of the family drama, instead of the Skywalker family getting killed off one by one so that a new girl could swoop in and get everything. Because that’s what really irks me about the whole thing, not that Ben dies or that the Skywalker family is gone, but that they do so to essentially prop up Rey’s story.
@Saracene
It relied on the hilarity of "never to be seen again" for me. It could have gone either way. Clearly those of us who were saying over and over that something was missing were right, it was just the details that made Ben's death significantly more emotional, conclusive and palatable, and in many ways that makes sense. "Never to be seen again" was absolute nonsense no matter how you slice it and the actual sequence will likely be very good, but I'll freely admit that I am more of a Rey fan than you are and I believe I could like this ending in execution even if I find it very sad for all the characters.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I was actually really really annoyed with how Rey was pushed to the side at the end of TLJ even though Luke and Kylo’s confrontation was one of my favourite things in the ST. She is the protagonist of these series and for her to be reduced to a secondary character during the climax at Crait felt really off to me.

Unfortunately, this whole setup for the ST where we have a main protagonist in a saga about a family that she doesn’t belong to meant that it was going to be tricky to find the balance. On one end Rey could become a mere cog/observer in the Skywalker family drama, and on the other Skywalkers become props in her story. TLJ I felt veered too much towards the former, and the rumoured RotS ending towards the latter.
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Post by bashfulblueeyes3 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:12 pm

Didn’t Mark just say something in the interview about second chances? How do you have second chance if your dead?

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Post by Moonjump05 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:13 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I honestly expect Rey's conclusion to be significantly more heavily criticized than Ben's, and not just from the more spiteful perspective of those angry she's being handed the legacy or whatever. His will, at the very least, feel mostly earned, emotional and have a lasting impact that echoes previous characters and trilogies, especially Anakin's relationship with Padme at the end of RotS with how Ben gives up his life for the woman he loves rather than symbolically stealing it away. I think it'll be played as epic and spiritual, not sad, and that's going to help a lot. Rey is the one who likely ends up back on a desert planet alone with droids and ghosts, and that's just... well, you know. I get what JJ is trying to say with this ending, but it's very sad when you think about it for more than 2 seconds.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh, I agree. If Rey ends up alone her ending will not only be sad but it will be kinda pointless. She ends up exactly where she started and without the one thing she actually wanted- belonging.

I dunno if anyone will be happy, the reylos will be sad, the anti will be sad. The only fans I think will be happy are those who hated the ST and the new characters.
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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:15 pm

I find it much more than sad.

For those who see a positive end in romantic happy end, a sense of fulfillment is like a blow to the head.

For me they may have made a great movie, but I've already seen Gost and Titanic, now I'd like to see more.

By the way, if Kylo dies to save Rey, it's really too much like Vader who redeems himself for Luke, there's nothing new either.

The only thing I haven't seen yet is a happy couple and a normal family that grows their children with love in Star Wars. In the end, if you think about it, they're all orphans. It is a galaxy of orphans and adopted children.

I will never be satisfied if the prodigal son dies and Cinderella returns to clean the cellars.
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Post by Moonjump05 on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:27 pm

I mean, it sounds like we are getting our canon kiss, so I will be very happy to see that. If Kylo dies right after and Rey ends up alone, I will be sad and probably not really looking forward to anything much for the remaining characters. Hate Poe, Finn was disappointing, Rose seems to have gotten shafted. I just can't see how this ending would be hopeful.

I can always watch the rest of TCW and any new stuff in the SW Galaxy.

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Post by special_cases on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:32 pm

Antis will be very happy. They will ignore all Reylo like these parts of the movie don't exist and will say that Rey found her belonging with Finn and Poe and Skywalkers family as Force Ghosts. In the leaks Rey just travel to Tatooine to bury stuff on request of ghosts. So Rey's story goal was to find friends (she did in the first movie) and find surname that suits her (final outcome).
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Post by Oscarborough-fairo on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:32 pm

That would be the most disturbing, most tragic SW movie they have ever done.
Ben Solo is not even an evil guy, but a tormented, confused, abused young man whose life has been about suffering ever since he was born. He hasn't get any chance to live. Such an ending would go against everything what Star Wars, this space fairy tale represents in general aka love, hope family. Building him up just to destroy him....doesn't make any sense. His journey is about adolescene.
That would represent a horrible message...
He's extremely popular and beloved. Much more than the fake, marketing trio, than Rey herself. Children adores him as well. Especially in Europe and Asia....Japan literally made a kabuki play for the character's honor.
There's a very small group of toxic people...the bullies. I do nor think these problematic people should matter in any case.
DLF would lose a lot of money, JJ would become the most hated sw director ever, the movie itself would fall...believe it or not, Kylo Ren is the most beloved , most popular SW character. Even the TLJ haters loved his scenes.
Reylo is one of the most beautiful couple ever, they are extremely popular and beloved. Their love perfectly fits into the Saga.

It would make Rey look like a sick creepy identity thief. She would be one of the most hated sw characters ever.

If reylo won't happen I do dare to belive it was Daisy's doing. JJ seems to be very much obsessed with her....i hope im wrong, but i can see her doing something like that

If they do this, they are going to fall...


I hope it's just a bad joke 🙏

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:35 pm

@special_cases wrote:Antis will be very happy. They will ignore all Reylo like these parts of the movie don't exist and will say that Rey found her belonging with Finn and Poe and Skywalkers family as Force Ghosts. In the leaks Rey just travel to Tatooine to bury stuff on request of ghosts. So Rey's story goal was to find friends (she did in the first movie) and find surname that suits her (final outcome).
@special_cases
As someone who has recently been on a certain forum of boomers antis, no, they are incredibly displeased with what they're hearing as well. Many are refusing to buy tickets, not that that'll impact how the film does or anything. Just an observation from around the internet.
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Post by ZioRen on Fri 13 Dec 2019, 3:38 pm

The only antis who will be happy are the ones who've whittled their standards down to "as long as Kylo dies," and I don't even think most of them who claim that actually think that. The kiss will make them rage, because that means no matter what happens to Kylo, Reylo is canon. Not endgame, but canon.
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