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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Post by rawpowah on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 12:59 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:@special_cases I also won't be surprised if we see hot takes like "Kylo was never truly redeemed because he only saved Rey. He never saved the Resistance or believed in their cause." Laughing I remember seeing some Vader redemption takes just like this one floating around the internet last year. Laughing

@rawpowah

I had to read the dumbest take these days. In the leaks, Leia quits Jedi training because she has a vision and is terrified her son is going to die. So... eventually he does die, because all Skywalkers are tragic and s***, and basically turning his mother's nightmare into reality. But hear me out: Leia would be happy for his death, because at least he died for a good cause!

Yeah. "I'm terrified my child is going to die but if he goes down for a good cause I'm ok," said no one ever. It's subtextual bullshit, because it's not symbolic or deep or even meaningful. It's dying for death's sake, it's dying because "everyone in his family dies like this so welp, down he goes",  which is just nihilistic and depressing.
@Piper Maru

Nihilism is such a good way to describe storytelling in most of the franchises currently airing. They think they're being deep and meaningful, but it's really not the case, and in some cases they're applying this nihilism to stories that really don't fit that mold.
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Post by ReyloSpanishFan on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:03 pm

I have compared the leaked ending with some japanese drama because, well... the leaked ending ends in drama. Obviously there are a lot of japanese anime and manga which end on a happy note.
I don´t think a sad ending means necessarily a bad ending. It depends of the execution. The worst part, to me, is the nonsense of "Rey Skywalker"... unless TROS contains itself some kind of mesaage towards that direction.

George Lucas had A LOT of influence by japanese films and culture with the OT, by the way. There are much written about that:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/12/21/understanding-the-japanese-influences-behind-star-wars/

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160104-the-film-star-wars-stole-from

https://nextshark.com/obi-wan-kenobi-japanese-toshiro-mifune-darth-vader/

I have been a Reylo since TFA (I lead a web in spanish and have posted about them since short after its release). I have been mocked by some people in the spanish fandom (specially by Kylux fans...), but I have never mind. I suppose it will be the same after TROS release and even if Ben lives and marry Rey the antis will go on with their view of things. It´s pretty inevitable.


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Post by special_cases on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:03 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig If Rey can live and continue her story after Ben died, the romance with him wasn't an outcome of her story, it was just part of her story, important, but not a solution. If the solution of her finding her belonging was to stay with Ben, creators would have let him to live.
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Post by Atenais on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:04 pm

This poster is so beautiful. What are they trying to tell us???!!!

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 38 Sw11
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:07 pm

@special_cases wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig If Rey can live and continue her story after Ben died, the romance with him wasn't an outcome of her story, it was just part of her story, important, but not a solution. If the solution of her finding her belonging was to stay with Ben, creators would have let him to live.  
@special_cases
As of right now the story is done, so yes, it was the outcome of the story. Ben gives his life to Rey and that's how she goes on as a Skywalker - this is the conclusion. There's currently no confirmation that they even are continuing it (not in comics or anything else), so these are concerns based on potential future storytelling that may never come to pass. If it does it might be in a very, very long time. Years, probably. And who knows what will happen between now and then.

If someone tries to say Reylo wasn't an outcome of the story or the major emotional core of both characters' arcs I'm just going to laugh hard. It's like hearing "a scene where a girl blushes over a shirtless man isn't romantic!" It's just a stupid argument.


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Post by rawpowah on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:07 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:I’m telling you guys, they’re gonna bank on Rey and the trio for future stories and when that flops, they’ll bring Ben Solo back. Just watch. You don’t appreciate what you have until it’s gone. So ridiculous,
@Kylo Rey

I never really thought they'd prevent themselves from ever telling (blood) Skywalker stories again in the future. So in that respect I agree with you. Even if it's nonsensical, they'll do what they gotta do for that cash.
@ZioRen

They have that Rise of Kylo Ren comic series they're releasing now (because after the tragic ending in Tros we need to find out about Ben's tragic backstory too apparently), and I'm sure they'll continue to release 'prequel' material, but they're limiting the amount of stories they can tell with this character by killing him off in the movie. I think post-Tros stories with Ben would have been a huge draw.
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Post by Kylo Rey on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:11 pm

@rawpowah wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:I’m telling you guys, they’re gonna bank on Rey and the trio for future stories and when that flops, they’ll bring Ben Solo back. Just watch. You don’t appreciate what you have until it’s gone. So ridiculous,
@Kylo Rey

I never really thought they'd prevent themselves from ever telling (blood) Skywalker stories again in the future. So in that respect I agree with you. Even if it's nonsensical, they'll do what they gotta do for that cash.
@ZioRen

They have that Rise of Kylo Ren comic series they're releasing now (because after the tragic ending in Tros we need to find out about Ben's tragic backstory too apparently), and I'm sure they'll continue to release 'prequel' material, but they're limiting the amount of stories they can tell with this character by killing him off in the movie. I think post-Tros stories with Ben would have been a huge draw.
@rawpowah

Especially when you see stories like Rurouni Kenshin. Ronin & atonement stories are awesome and really need to be done more in Western media (especially as they’re hugely popular in other cultures). Such a waste of his character otherwise.

And oh my, that poster is gorgeous! Romantic, even
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Post by rawpowah on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:11 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig If Rey can live and continue her story after Ben died, the romance with him wasn't an outcome of her story, it was just part of her story, important, but not a solution. If the solution of her finding her belonging was to stay with Ben, creators would have let him to live.
@special_cases
As of right now the story is done, so yes, it was the outcome of the story. Ben gives his life to Rey and that's how she goes on as a Skywalker - this is the conclusion. There's currently no confirmation that they even are continuing it (not in comics or anything else), so these are concerns based on potential future storytelling that may never come to pass. If it does it might be in a very, very long time. Years, probably. And who knows what will happen between now and then.
@FrolickingFizzgig

"We're sitting down now, we're talking about the next 10 years of Star Wars stories, and we're looking at, narratively, where that might go," Kennedy said while talking about the work of Lucasfilm's Story Group. "Future stories beyond Episode IX with these new characters: Rey, Poe, Finn, BB-8 — but we're also looking at working with people who are interested in coming into the Star Wars world and taking us places we haven't been yet. That's exciting, too, because it's a vast galaxy far, far away."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-kathleen-kennedy-teases-more-rey-finn-al-post-2019-1054438
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:15 pm

@rawpowah wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig If Rey can live and continue her story after Ben died, the romance with him wasn't an outcome of her story, it was just part of her story, important, but not a solution. If the solution of her finding her belonging was to stay with Ben, creators would have let him to live.
@special_cases
As of right now the story is done, so yes, it was the outcome of the story. Ben gives his life to Rey and that's how she goes on as a Skywalker - this is the conclusion. There's currently no confirmation that they even are continuing it (not in comics or anything else), so these are concerns based on potential future storytelling that may never come to pass. If it does it might be in a very, very long time. Years, probably. And who knows what will happen between now and then.
@FrolickingFizzgig

"We're sitting down now, we're talking about the next 10 years of Star Wars stories, and we're looking at, narratively, where that might go," Kennedy said while talking about the work of Lucasfilm's Story Group. "Future stories beyond Episode IX with these new characters: Rey, Poe, Finn, BB-8 — but we're also looking at working with people who are interested in coming into the Star Wars world and taking us places we haven't been yet. That's exciting, too, because it's a vast galaxy far, far away."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-kathleen-kennedy-teases-more-rey-finn-al-post-2019-1054438
@rawpowah
"There's currently no confirmation that they're even continuing it." I stand by what I said. There's no confirmation and who knows how long it'll take. There are a lot of factors to consider including the reception of TROS.
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Post by SkyStar on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:19 pm

@Atenais wrote:This poster is so beautiful. What are they trying to tell us???!!!

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 38 Sw11
@Atenais
I am listening to a waltz now and how is this so fitting - a ballroom with waltzes and lightsabers.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:22 pm

99% of people who will see this film are only going to see it and move on. To them, yes, this is the conclusion of Rey's story. Star Wars fans who follow "ancillary" material are limited. To me, there are too many factors right now to say for certain that we're going to be getting Rey adventures one year from now where she meets her new boyfriend (or girlfriend Razz) or whatever the concern is here. The movies are always by far #1 when it comes to target audience consumption. Where the GA is concerned the climax of Rey's story is being given life by Ben Solo as a result of their love and living on in his stead.
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Post by Mila95 on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:23 pm

I think they might want to spin off Poe and Zorri or Jannah and even Finn(tho maybe not him because I think John said something about not wanting to be on Disney plus?) to Disney plus. I can't see them daring to do movies with these characters, I don't think it's enough of a draw but shows maybe, comic books and stuff for sure. Even Rey I can't imagine in a movie that's just her own tbh, without the nostalgia and OT characters to help it along. I am really surprised that they gave up years of Kylo comics and books by killing him off because it's really no secret he's the most popular character to come out of the ST.Sure there's his time with Luke and Snoke I guess but I think future stories would have been interesting to even more people. I always thought they couldn't get Adam to star in more movies anyway but the supplementary material or an animated show was a possibility.

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Post by Atenais on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:24 pm

@ReyloSpanishFan wrote:I have compared the leaked ending with some japanese drama because, well... the leaked ending ends in drama. Obviously there are a lot of japanese anime and manga which end on a happy note.
I don´t think a sad ending means necessarily a bad ending. It depends of the execution. The worst part, to me, is the nonsense of "Rey Skywalker"... unless TROS contains itself some kind of mesaage towards that direction. (...)
@ReyloSpanishFan

Same.

I may have an unpopular opinion, but, I would prefer a Ben Solo redeemed and alive, without Rey, than a [hinted] romance, with Ben dead. From what we see, he's a tragic character and I find it very unfair to having him dead. What kind of message is that? I never defended his actions, he did terrible things, but the beauty of SW is that the characters can get better, and he's a young man, the only acceptable path is death?
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Post by rawpowah on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:26 pm

@Atenais wrote:This poster is so beautiful. What are they trying to tell us???!!!

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 38 Sw11
@Atenais

"Here's the damage control" Laughing Laughing

It's a beautiful poster though. Probably their best.
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Post by special_cases on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:28 pm

I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.
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Post by Night Huntress on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:28 pm

@Atenais

I agree- It's blasphemy saying this in a Reylo-Forum but I rather have him live without romance and I don't really care about Rey - it's sad but that's how I feel at the moment. I hope TROS will change that.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:30 pm

@special_cases wrote:I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.
@special_cases
Personal goal and story outcome are two separate things, so it seems as though we're having different conversations. My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family. Sure, it's all in support of Rey, but she is alive and the war is won because of her connection to Ben.
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Post by BenRey on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:37 pm

When I see the word trio


Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 38 Giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a04914a0e726b6f95befe31e17a11e76358dff2e4&rid=giphy
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Post by Piper Maru on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:37 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Hahahahaha. While I 100% agree that this is definitely the message they're trying to convey, it's just too funny. Basically a parody, honestly.

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Post by rawpowah on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:39 pm

@Mila95 wrote:I think they might want to spin off Poe and Zorri or Jannah and even Finn(tho maybe not him because I think John said something about not wanting to be on Disney plus?) to Disney plus. I can't see them daring to do movies with these characters, I don't think it's enough of a draw but shows maybe, comic books and stuff for sure. Even Rey I can't imagine in a movie that's just her own tbh, without the nostalgia and OT characters to help it along. I am really surprised that they gave up years of Kylo comics and books by killing him off because it's really no secret he's the most popular character to come out of the ST.Sure there's his time with Luke and Snoke I guess but I think future stories would have been interesting to even more people. I always thought they couldn't get Adam to star in more movies anyway but the supplementary material or an animated show was a possibility.
@Mila95

Idk, I mean Adam really likes Kylo. And I remember from an interview he would have even been fine with "Girls" having more seasons Laughing. I think if the story is good he's on board.  Question  He's critically acclaimed and he's been nominated for many big awards in the last couple of years - that's definitely someone you want to keep around in your franchise. Maybe someone will spill some tea in the future and we'll find out - I love Hollywood gossip.

Sucks that LF are limiting themselves like that. I mean, they don't even need to use Adam to voice an animated show if they want to go down that path. Laughing
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Post by Moonjump05 on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:40 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.
@special_cases
Personal goal and story outcome are two separate things, so it seems as though we're having different conversations. My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family. Sure, it's all in support of Rey, but she is alive and the war is won because of her connection to Ben.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I think Rey carrying on the Skywalker legacy is what gets me.  It just does not work without Ben alive.  She knew Han Solo for a day, had a fairly bad relationship with Luke Skywalker and her connection with Leia will all be repurposed footage in the last movie.  The only Skywalker she connects with is Ben.

It's like Allurance all over, where the surviving character takes on the legacy of the dead one no matter how little sense it makes.


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Post by special_cases on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:40 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.
@special_cases
Personal goal and story outcome are two separate things, so it seems as though we're having different conversations. My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family. Sure, it's all in support of Rey, but she is alive and the war is won because of her connection to Ben.
@FrolickingFizzgig

You're not wrong but I originally said that the outcome of Rey's story is not romance or family with Ben. I said it in reference to reasons why people can ignore Reylo because they will see the story's goal through the personal goal of a protagonist. It's one thing if the end will be framed as a tradegy. But if it won't? That will mean that Ben's death is not a tradegy for Rey who was looking for belonging - so it means that Ben wasn't her belonging. This is problematic for me because it's messed up thematically.
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Post by CienaRee on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:44 pm

Frankly if they were aways intending to kill off Ben and have Rey not be related to the Skywalkers then they should have either had Luke have a child or give Han and Leia more kids. You just don't kill off the son and nephew of iconic couple and characters and the last Skywalker and expect people to be happy about it and cheer at somene else taking the name because she's so pure and everything Ben should have been in the eyes of the writers probably.
And don't even get me started on all of the stupid PoeRey and Finnrey(no offense to the people shipping either of them but seriously) scenarious we're going to get from the antis with Ben dead. Rolling Eyes
Not to mention how they're messing up not only the character's arcs but also the SW by completely ignoring how devestated Rey should be by loosing Ben due to also her Force Bond with him:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force-bond


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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:46 pm

@special_cases wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:I'll wait to see it to make my final judgement but right now it looks like Rey's personal goal in this story was to find truth about her family and lose a person who could have became her new family. So she failed in her journey because she found her other half but he died.
@special_cases
Personal goal and story outcome are two separate things, so it seems as though we're having different conversations. My point is that the story goal is 100% for Ben Solo to give his life to raise Rey Skywalker from the dead so she can live on with the legacy of his family. Sure, it's all in support of Rey, but she is alive and the war is won because of her connection to Ben.
@FrolickingFizzgig

You're not wrong but I originally said that the outcome of Rey's story is not romance or family with Ben. I said it in reference to reasons why people can ignore Reylo because they will see the story's goal through the personal goal of a protagonist. It's one thing if the end will be framed as a tradegy. But if it won't? That will mean that Ben's death is not a tradegy for Rey who was looking for belonging - so it means that Ben wasn't her belonging. This is problematic for me because it's messed up thematically.
@special_cases
Yes, well, my point is that while the ending is certainly not what I wanted, I'm not going to twist it into its most negative and perplexing version when it doesn't even apply to the creators' vision. I'm seeing a lot of this and while I respect that people are disappointed (I am as well on several levels) it's one thing to go from "Ben Solo's love saves Rey and in love and honour for him she lives on in his stead" (the actual point of the ending they're trying to tell) to "Rey steals the legacy and Reylo never mattered bc she'll get a boyfriend in comics 5 years from now" (essentially what you're trying to push).
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Post by Gemini on Sun 15 Dec 2019, 1:48 pm

@Atenais wrote:This poster is so beautiful. What are they trying to tell us???!!!

Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 38 Sw11
@Atenais

Omg I just saw palpatine peeking at us lawd, at the bottom.

These posters are not official, I thought. They are fan artwork that SW Twitter like and post?
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Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

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Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors - Page 38 Empty Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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