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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:40 pm

What about the gold dice? Haven’t seen them mentioned in any of the spoilers. Did JJ decide to ignore that detail as well?
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Post by Let The Past Die on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:42 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@special_cases
OOF. One massive miscalculation is definitely how much critics loved TLJ. The divide incited extreme opinions and defense vs. hate that spiraled for two years, so anything that feels as though it might be a slight against TLJ is going to be taken extremely poorly by those who were viscerally protective of TLJ. At this rate I am truly curious to see the critical score. I predicted 70's or 80's, but could it be lower?
@FrolickingFizzgig

I thought that critics will be warmer to this movie, but I'm reading all of their pre-review reactions... and the trend is that they hardly can find something to praise in this movie? Seems that JJ pacing and nonstop action (which usually are  crowdpleasing guarantees) only highlighted all story's problems, usually you can overlook problems at first screening. I'm curious to see the CS too, perhaps people with positive reaction talk less.
@special_cases
I dunno, I remember overwhelming positive reactions to TLJ and people kept talking about various (spoilery, haha) plot points for at least twenty-four hours, or until the embargo lifted and we got some really classic/great responses. This film seemingly sparked no lasting reaction even from those who expressed initial positivity, and that's really something. I've seen frustration over the pacing, the writing, the endless macguffins, you name it. Reylo seems to be the only thing even the critical viewers enjoyed. You could be right that those who liked it are being quieter - we'll know by tomorrow morning, I guess! I think the review embargo lifts tonight.

The incredible thing is how early the film leaked and that the outrage did not incite any changes beyond maybe the final sequence which probably was initially the whole gang on Tatooine because Anthony Daniels said Threepio's last scene would be with two of his favourite humans (Luke and Leia's Force Ghosts, lul). When John and others talked about how the ending changed that was likely what they were referring to.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The bolded above, it's just so puzzling.
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Post by special_cases on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:45 pm

Another viewer on Ben's death

Sacrifice is a good way to put it. I was thinking, a soul for a soul. And he disappears almost like a force ghost or becoming one with the force, but like many are saying it wouldn't make sense that he becomes a ghost because that would require training. It's about as ambiguous as many other things in the movie like exactly how Palpatine returned.
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Post by AnneNeville on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:51 pm

I just don’t know what to say. And I don’t know whether to go see this. I’m not . . . Surprised? . . . By the spoilers coming out. I always thought this was going to be more of a Redemption storyline in which Rey was meaningful to Ben. I didn’t think Reylo would get an easy happy-ever-after, due to Kylo’s crimes. So, in a way, the thrust of the main story I’m hearing is what I expected. Redeemed Kylo, light Reylo, but no “girl saves bad man” theme. It sounds like Ben comes back on his own, and makes his own sacrifice.

But at the same time . . . It sounds so messy and sloppy. What happened to Rose? Why is Rey a Somebody? Or is she still Nobody, but by choice this time? Does her power come from genetics, or something else? Why is she alone in the end?

What about the depiction of Kylo as a victim of abuse? Does anything come out of that?

Is there any reason for me to see this? Will it be fun and moving? Or is it just a Pyrrhic victory?
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Post by unicorn on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:52 pm

@Let The Past Die wrote:

And why oh why when anyone was asked in interviews, the buzz word was satisfying!


I can't help think of our fellow Reylo's from here, going in blind to see the film with hopeful optimism. I'm normally a glass half full person, but I'm glad I took the decision to spoil myself, it's the first time I've done so, and I've got that freeing feeling ones have mentioned.
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Maybe it was a nicer description for "sad"? *irony`*

I feel for the people in these reylo only viewings. Theaters under water.
I was nerver so glad to decide to read every spoiler.

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Post by Gemini on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:53 pm

I think the penny just dropped

The tower is there because Ben makes the similar Sacrifice obi made to let the falcon and new "Skywalker" rise?

I remember someone in the crew getting at that point, recently ..vaguely.

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Post by Mila95 on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:54 pm

@special_cases wrote:Another viewer on Ben's death

Sacrifice is a good way to put it. I was thinking, a soul for a soul. And he disappears almost like a force ghost or becoming one with the force, but like many are saying it wouldn't make sense that he becomes a ghost because that would require training. It's about as ambiguous as many other things in the movie like exactly how Palpatine returned.
@special_cases

Did being a force ghost require training before? I still can't believe they didn't even try to explain how Palpatine is back lol that's just blatant hoping people don't think too hard about it but this is huge, it's not something they can just handwave.

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Post by rawpowah on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:55 pm

I wonder what JJ's friends and collaborators said when he showed them the movie. Laughing Not once did anyone stop to tell him this was a bad idea?? Laughing

At least with GoT, they had no choice but to follow George's ending, even if they messed up the characters in the process.

Like... JJ would have had more freedom.
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Post by rawpowah on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 4:58 pm

@special_cases wrote:Another viewer on Ben's death

Sacrifice is a good way to put it. I was thinking, a soul for a soul. And he disappears almost like a force ghost or becoming one with the force, but like many are saying it wouldn't make sense that he becomes a ghost because that would require training. It's about as ambiguous as many other things in the movie like exactly how Palpatine returned.
@special_cases

It could be that they're keeping their options open in case they need to bring him back and make some millions. Or, the cynical side of me thinks it could also be a cruel way to drag fans along with the possibility of his return so they can buy more comics.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:00 pm

@special_cases wrote:Another viewer on Ben's death

Sacrifice is a good way to put it. I was thinking, a soul for a soul. And he disappears almost like a force ghost or becoming one with the force, but like many are saying it wouldn't make sense that he becomes a ghost because that would require training. It's about as ambiguous as many other things in the movie like exactly how Palpatine returned.
@special_cases
I have a theory that originally there was a bigger explanation for Palpatine returning just like there was the whole thing with the "Force Dyad" and Oracle, but much if it was removed as overly complex exposition and the final film just has a ton of hand waving as if it expects people to roll with punches that either barely explained or not explained at all. I don't believe Daisy thought Palpatine's reemergence was explained for no reason - there was something originally even if it didn't make it to the final cut. Perhaps a wonky thing that will end up in comics about how he was resurrected via the dark side.

On the other hand it does sound like the actual scene is well done, which I guess is a small comfort?

Ultimately if I dislike this film (I now think I probably will just because of the reception, lol) it's not because I didn't get what I was expecting, it's because of the billion other writing problems and lack of direction and bizarre fanservice.

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Post by Kyla Ren on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

@MindAndMagic wrote:I was contemplating and had almost decided not to go after Ben’s fate was confirmed, but I will go see it with my own eyes and share some thoughts on Thursday (to think how excited I was to buy my ticket right after they released them and there were almost no seats left). I don’t want to just read about it, I need to experience all this terrible angst for myself and have Adam break my heart as he always does. I am certain all the Rey/Kylo scenes will be highly emotional and full of tension, especially during the climax and really want to see the kiss I’ve been waiting for since TFA on a big screen. I have no doubt both Adam and Daisy have done their best with the material they were given. The music will be amazing too, we already know that.

I never expected some creative masterpiece with this last instalment. TLJ is the SW film that truly stands out not just amongst this trilogy, but overall with its innovative ideas and layered characterisation. It’s the most unique SW film by far and it seems like that will be appreciated more now. It didn’t cater to anyone and it was all the better for it. Because that’s not how you create something truly great. As RJ rightly puts it, catering to fans rather than challenging them is a mistake. Thought I suppose TROS is a challenge to all of us and also common sense. If you’re trying to please everybody, you end up pleading no one and the writers should’ve known that.

What I did expect, however, was following through with the story established so far and providing a satisfying conclusion, even it was not perfectly executed. SW is very simple at its core. It’s a fairytale in space primarily aimed at kids. The genre comes with a message of love and hope. A bleak, hopeless ending like this does not feel right instinctually. You’re left with a frustrating, tragic “what if” and wondering why it was necessary to make that choice, and what was the meaning of any of it. I always knew Ben would have to make some sort of grand sacrifice that will redeem him in the eyes of the audience and show the strength of his feelings. And what could be more impactful than giving his life for the one he loves? That said, I never imagined it would be permanent. The worst case scenario I pictured was an ambiguous, open-ended resolution with the possibility of an eventual reunion. I always imagined the sacrifice would be followed by an even more emotional resurrection: just when you think all hope is lost, SW gives you that hope back, fills your heart with joy and makes you cry happy tears. This would have felt right. Ben suffered so much, didn’t have a moment of peace his entire life, Rey always felt alone physically and emotionally, and just when these two lost souls finally find each other, they immediately take it all away. The one person she needs is gone and it’s that sense of inevitability and finality that’s so unbearable. Instead of hopeful, it makes you feel empty and sad. At least A/P and H/L got some time together, this love never had a chance to be realised. And what’s most frustrating is it would’ve been so easy. They had all the ingredients: a narratively intriguing enemies-to-lovers main storyline, talented actors, a beloved legacy of films with established themes, and somehow they managed to let all that potential go to waste. It’s a damn shame.
@MindAndMagic

I agree with your post so much, especially the bolded part.  I really would have liked a happily after ending for Reylo, but I think I could have accepted Kylo dying if he and Rey had been able to spend some time together doing something other than fighting, even if there wouldn't have been time to show them in a full-fledged relationship like Anakin and Padme and Han and Leia had.

But no.  As you said, their love never had a chance to be realized. Sad  That's also what I find so heartbreaking about this whole thing.  They had all the ingredients, but it's like they just chose to throw everything away instead of giving us an epic romance. Sad  And why?  Because they were afraid some fans wouldn't like it?  As people here and elsewhere have said, it's like they tried to please everyone and instead ended up pleasing no one. Sad
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Post by Mila95 on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:08 pm

@Kyla Ren wrote:
@MindAndMagic wrote:I was contemplating and had almost decided not to go after Ben’s fate was confirmed, but I will go see it with my own eyes and share some thoughts on Thursday (to think how excited I was to buy my ticket right after they released them and there were almost no seats left). I don’t want to just read about it, I need to experience all this terrible angst for myself and have Adam break my heart as he always does. I am certain all the Rey/Kylo scenes will be highly emotional and full of tension, especially during the climax and really want to see the kiss I’ve been waiting for since TFA on a big screen. I have no doubt both Adam and Daisy have done their best with the material they were given. The music will be amazing too, we already know that.

I never expected some creative masterpiece with this last instalment. TLJ is the SW film that truly stands out not just amongst this trilogy, but overall with its innovative ideas and layered characterisation. It’s the most unique SW film by far and it seems like that will be appreciated more now. It didn’t cater to anyone and it was all the better for it. Because that’s not how you create something truly great. As RJ rightly puts it, catering to fans rather than challenging them is a mistake. Thought I suppose TROS is a challenge to all of us and also common sense. If you’re trying to please everybody, you end up pleading no one and the writers should’ve known that.

What I did expect, however, was following through with the story established so far and providing a satisfying conclusion, even it was not perfectly executed. SW is very simple at its core. It’s a fairytale in space primarily aimed at kids. The genre comes with a message of love and hope. A bleak, hopeless ending like this does not feel right instinctually. You’re left with a frustrating, tragic “what if” and wondering why it was necessary to make that choice, and what was the meaning of any of it. I always knew Ben would have to make some sort of grand sacrifice that will redeem him in the eyes of the audience and show the strength of his feelings. And what could be more impactful than giving his life for the one he loves? That said, I never imagined it would be permanent. The worst case scenario I pictured was an ambiguous, open-ended resolution with the possibility of an eventual reunion. I always imagined the sacrifice would be followed by an even more emotional resurrection: just when you think all hope is lost, SW gives you that hope back, fills your heart with joy and makes you cry happy tears. This would have felt right. Ben suffered so much, didn’t have a moment of peace his entire life, Rey always felt alone physically and emotionally, and just when these two lost souls finally find each other, they immediately take it all away. The one person she needs is gone and it’s that sense of inevitability and finality that’s so unbearable. Instead of hopeful, it makes you feel empty and sad. At least A/P and H/L got some time together, this love never had a chance to be realised. And what’s most frustrating is it would’ve been so easy. They had all the ingredients: a narratively intriguing enemies-to-lovers main storyline, talented actors, a beloved legacy of films with established themes, and somehow they managed to let all that potential go to waste. It’s a damn shame.
@MindAndMagic

I agree with your post so much, especially the bolded part.  I really would have liked a happily after ending for Reylo, but I think I could have accepted Kylo dying if he and Rey had been able to spend some time together doing something other than fighting, even if there wouldn't have been time to show them in a full-fledged relationship like Anakin and Padme and Han and Leia had.

But no.  As you said, their love never had a chance to be realized. Sad  That's also what I find so heartbreaking about this whole thing.  They had all the ingredients, but it's like they just chose to throw everything away instead of giving us an epic romance. Sad  And why?  Because they were afraid some fans wouldn't like it?  As people here and elsewhere have said, it's like they tried to please everyone and instead ended up pleasing no one. Sad
@Kyla Ren

That's what I'm most disappointed about about too. I mean I have to see it to be totally sure but it sounds like they just have a bunch of lightsaber duels before the kiss instead of actual talking to each other even if it's hostile at first. I love their fight scenes but this is the last movie, I don't think a regression to TFA dynamic is the best thing here. And when they do talk a lot of it is exposition because JJ had to retcon Rey's parantage in convoluted ways so Kylo spends his apparently few lines selling that to the audience. Seems like a lot of wasted potential.

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Post by OrionStars on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:10 pm

@rawpowah wrote:I wonder what JJ's friends and collaborators said when he showed them the movie. Laughing Not once did anyone stop to tell him this was a bad idea?? Laughing

At least with GoT, they had no choice but to follow George's ending, even if they messed up the characters in the process.

Like... JJ would have had more freedom.
@rawpowah

His creator's pet syndrome is like his own personal jail. He killed the last real Skywalker to secure Rey's last living "Skywalker" position and the future of DR's career.
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Post by special_cases on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:10 pm

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 37 Screen14


You know, I always knew that "satisfying" is PR talk, an instruction from publicists to actors, to repeat it everywhere. Of course, you can't satisfy everyone, it's impossible. But there is absolutely nothing satisfying in this ending: not for in-story narrative as for all major characters and not for general audience or fandom on meta level.

It makes the whole ST an awkward epilogue where we discover that Anakin actually didn't destroy the Sith and the fate of his kids and his family is much worse. I can appreciate the sentiment behind Rey being Palpatine by blood and still choosing to be Skywalker, the message is great, but was it even a hard choice for Rey, a choice that required more than second thought on Rey's part? Of course, she will choose being Skywalker as Luke and Leia were more decent people and overall closer to her than some spooky Sith Lord who killed her parents. Of course, she will choose being Skywalker as the last Skywalker was her love and he just gave up his life for her life? There is no weight behind this outcome and this "ending", it never was challenging for Rey to choose one or another way.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:12 pm

@special_cases

These are people who saw it yesterday or today? Do you know?
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Post by Kyla Ren on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:14 pm

@Mila95 wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@MindAndMagic wrote:I was contemplating and had almost decided not to go after Ben’s fate was confirmed, but I will go see it with my own eyes and share some thoughts on Thursday (to think how excited I was to buy my ticket right after they released them and there were almost no seats left). I don’t want to just read about it, I need to experience all this terrible angst for myself and have Adam break my heart as he always does. I am certain all the Rey/Kylo scenes will be highly emotional and full of tension, especially during the climax and really want to see the kiss I’ve been waiting for since TFA on a big screen. I have no doubt both Adam and Daisy have done their best with the material they were given. The music will be amazing too, we already know that.

I never expected some creative masterpiece with this last instalment. TLJ is the SW film that truly stands out not just amongst this trilogy, but overall with its innovative ideas and layered characterisation. It’s the most unique SW film by far and it seems like that will be appreciated more now. It didn’t cater to anyone and it was all the better for it. Because that’s not how you create something truly great. As RJ rightly puts it, catering to fans rather than challenging them is a mistake. Thought I suppose TROS is a challenge to all of us and also common sense. If you’re trying to please everybody, you end up pleading no one and the writers should’ve known that.

What I did expect, however, was following through with the story established so far and providing a satisfying conclusion, even it was not perfectly executed. SW is very simple at its core. It’s a fairytale in space primarily aimed at kids. The genre comes with a message of love and hope. A bleak, hopeless ending like this does not feel right instinctually. You’re left with a frustrating, tragic “what if” and wondering why it was necessary to make that choice, and what was the meaning of any of it. I always knew Ben would have to make some sort of grand sacrifice that will redeem him in the eyes of the audience and show the strength of his feelings. And what could be more impactful than giving his life for the one he loves? That said, I never imagined it would be permanent. The worst case scenario I pictured was an ambiguous, open-ended resolution with the possibility of an eventual reunion. I always imagined the sacrifice would be followed by an even more emotional resurrection: just when you think all hope is lost, SW gives you that hope back, fills your heart with joy and makes you cry happy tears. This would have felt right. Ben suffered so much, didn’t have a moment of peace his entire life, Rey always felt alone physically and emotionally, and just when these two lost souls finally find each other, they immediately take it all away. The one person she needs is gone and it’s that sense of inevitability and finality that’s so unbearable. Instead of hopeful, it makes you feel empty and sad. At least A/P and H/L got some time together, this love never had a chance to be realised. And what’s most frustrating is it would’ve been so easy. They had all the ingredients: a narratively intriguing enemies-to-lovers main storyline, talented actors, a beloved legacy of films with established themes, and somehow they managed to let all that potential go to waste. It’s a damn shame.
@MindAndMagic

I agree with your post so much, especially the bolded part.  I really would have liked a happily after ending for Reylo, but I think I could have accepted Kylo dying if he and Rey had been able to spend some time together doing something other than fighting, even if there wouldn't have been time to show them in a full-fledged relationship like Anakin and Padme and Han and Leia had.

But no.  As you said, their love never had a chance to be realized. Sad  That's also what I find so heartbreaking about this whole thing.  They had all the ingredients, but it's like they just chose to throw everything away instead of giving us an epic romance. Sad  And why?  Because they were afraid some fans wouldn't like it?  As people here and elsewhere have said, it's like they tried to please everyone and instead ended up pleasing no one. Sad
@Kyla Ren

That's what I'm most disappointed about about too. I mean I have to see it to be totally sure but it sounds like they just have a bunch of lightsaber duels before the kiss instead of actual talking to each other even if it's hostile at first. I love their fight scenes but this is the last movie, I don't think a regression to TFA dynamic is the best thing here. And when they do talk a lot of it is exposition because JJ had to retcon Rey's parantage in convoluted ways so Kylo spends his apparently few lines selling that to the audience. Seems like a lot of wasted potential.
@Mila95

Yes, exactly.  Actually, I think "wasted potential" is the theme for this entire trilogy. Sad  There were so many things they could have done, not just with Reylo, but with other characters and plot lines as well, but they just seem to have dropped the ball with all of it.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:19 pm

@Let The Past Die wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@special_cases
OOF. One massive miscalculation is definitely how much critics loved TLJ. The divide incited extreme opinions and defense vs. hate that spiraled for two years, so anything that feels as though it might be a slight against TLJ is going to be taken extremely poorly by those who were viscerally protective of TLJ. At this rate I am truly curious to see the critical score. I predicted 70's or 80's, but could it be lower?
@FrolickingFizzgig

I thought that critics will be warmer to this movie, but I'm reading all of their pre-review reactions... and the trend is that they hardly can find something to praise in this movie? Seems that JJ pacing and nonstop action (which usually are  crowdpleasing guarantees) only highlighted all story's problems, usually you can overlook problems at first screening. I'm curious to see the CS too, perhaps people with positive reaction talk less.
@special_cases
I dunno, I remember overwhelming positive reactions to TLJ and people kept talking about various (spoilery, haha) plot points for at least twenty-four hours, or until the embargo lifted and we got some really classic/great responses. This film seemingly sparked no lasting reaction even from those who expressed initial positivity, and that's really something. I've seen frustration over the pacing, the writing, the endless macguffins, you name it. Reylo seems to be the only thing even the critical viewers enjoyed. You could be right that those who liked it are being quieter - we'll know by tomorrow morning, I guess! I think the review embargo lifts tonight.

The incredible thing is how early the film leaked and that the outrage did not incite any changes beyond maybe the final sequence which probably was initially the whole gang on Tatooine because Anthony Daniels said Threepio's last scene would be with two of his favourite humans (Luke and Leia's Force Ghosts, lul). When John and others talked about how the ending changed that was likely what they were referring to.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The bolded above, it's just so puzzling.
@Let The Past Die

The big forum...that other place. I think a lot of people liked the leaks because it meant Ben died. If that's where they mainly look then...

But was reddit very upset with the leaks? That's a bigger place right?
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:20 pm

@special_cases wrote:Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 37 Screen14


You know, I always knew that "satisfying" is PR talk, an instruction from publicists to actors, to repeat it everywhere. Of course, you can't satisfy everyone, it's impossible. But there is absolutely nothing satisfying in this ending: not for in-story narrative as for all major characters and not for general audience or fandom on meta level.

It makes the whole ST an awkward epilogue where we discover that Anakin actually didn't destroy the Sith and the fate of his kids and his family is much worse. I can appreciate the sentiment behind Rey being Palpatine by blood and still choosing to be Skywalker, the message is great, but was it even a hard choice for Rey, a choice that required more than second thought on Rey's part? Of course, she will choose being Skywalker as Luke and Leia were more decent people and overall closer to her than some spooky Sith Lord who killed her parents. Of course, she will choose being Skywalker as the last Skywalker was her love and he just gave up his life for her life? There is no weight behind this outcome and this "ending", it never was challenging for Rey to choose one or another way.
@special_cases
It sounds insane but I'm truly wondering if they're going to have to do real damage control for this film. It seems as though the critics and fans are both going to be severely underwhelmed. I guarantee there will be whole paragraphs praising/defending TLJ and Rian in reviews for TROS.

What will be the outcome of this?

@Gemini
Nah, they don't care what the forum of boomers has to say, lol. They're going to despise this film more than anybody, possibly. I just meant the leaks in general. They were everywhere on Reddit, Twitter and Tumblr (and out in the open) for months. Just look at the Burger King commercial.
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Post by Kyla Ren on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:24 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@Let The Past Die wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@special_cases wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@special_cases
OOF. One massive miscalculation is definitely how much critics loved TLJ. The divide incited extreme opinions and defense vs. hate that spiraled for two years, so anything that feels as though it might be a slight against TLJ is going to be taken extremely poorly by those who were viscerally protective of TLJ. At this rate I am truly curious to see the critical score. I predicted 70's or 80's, but could it be lower?
@FrolickingFizzgig

I thought that critics will be warmer to this movie, but I'm reading all of their pre-review reactions... and the trend is that they hardly can find something to praise in this movie? Seems that JJ pacing and nonstop action (which usually are  crowdpleasing guarantees) only highlighted all story's problems, usually you can overlook problems at first screening. I'm curious to see the CS too, perhaps people with positive reaction talk less.
@special_cases
I dunno, I remember overwhelming positive reactions to TLJ and people kept talking about various (spoilery, haha) plot points for at least twenty-four hours, or until the embargo lifted and we got some really classic/great responses. This film seemingly sparked no lasting reaction even from those who expressed initial positivity, and that's really something. I've seen frustration over the pacing, the writing, the endless macguffins, you name it. Reylo seems to be the only thing even the critical viewers enjoyed. You could be right that those who liked it are being quieter - we'll know by tomorrow morning, I guess! I think the review embargo lifts tonight.

The incredible thing is how early the film leaked and that the outrage did not incite any changes beyond maybe the final sequence which probably was initially the whole gang on Tatooine because Anthony Daniels said Threepio's last scene would be with two of his favourite humans (Luke and Leia's Force Ghosts, lul). When John and others talked about how the ending changed that was likely what they were referring to.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The bolded above, it's just so puzzling.
@Let The Past Die

The big forum...that other place. I think a lot of people liked the leaks because it meant Ben died. If that's where they mainly look then...

But was reddit very upset with the leaks? That's a bigger place right?
@Gemini

I don't know about Reddit, but I browse the forums over at that "other place" (if it's the place I'm thinking of) and my impression is that a lot of them are happy that Kylo dies, but most of them never seemed to like the leaks overall.  And from what I've seen, a lot of them are very upset about the Reylo kiss.  Most of them just hate Reylo so much.  It's like any form of Reylo, but especially a kiss, is a deal breaker for them.
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Post by Gemini on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:25 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig

So weird.

JJ said he would know a leaker because he only showed it ton12 people?

This is just something I heard that he said...even if planted, he still could have seen the fan reaction.
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Post by ZioRen on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:28 pm

Yeah the only people who seem very happy with this movie are the first reactions (and those are often fake-happy for pretty much every big movie) and the people who only cared that JJ messed with Rian and TLJ to any degree because they became just THAT bitter about it. Even if someone likes the Palpatine angle in theory, from what it sounds they really blow it when it comes to making it satisfying, or even just not conspicuously thrown in, in-movie. JJ absolutely seems to have done the "unearned moments" thing again. It'll be the Leia hugging Rey and not Chewie arguments all over again x 10.

If certain post-TLJ reactions were just about giving into the haters again and using it as a chance to express grievances, I'm curious to see how the cast interviews about this movie now that it's out and if reviews aren't great (not that great reviews stopped this attitude toward TLJ). Will we see some clamming up?


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Post by rawpowah on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:31 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig I too am wondering if they will have to do damage control and what actors they'll send to face the firing squad. When does the embargo lift for reviews? And when will we get the rotten tomatoes score?
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:32 pm

@ZioRen wrote:Yeah the only people who seem very happy with this movie are the first reactions (and those are often fake-happy for pretty much every big movie) and the people who only cared that JJ messed with Rian and TLJ to any degree because they became just THAT bitter about it. Even if someone likes the Palpatine angle in theory, from what it sounds they really blow it when it comes to making it satisfying, or even just not conspicuously thrown in, in-movie. JJ absolutely seems to have done the "unearned moments" thing again. It'll be the Leia hugging Rey and not Chewie arguments all over again x 10.

If certain post-TLJ reactions were just about giving into the haters again and using it as a chance to express grievances, I'm curious to see how the cast interviews about this movie now that it's out. Will we see some clamming up?
@ZioRen
To be fair there are a lot of positive responses as well, both from last night and today. It's not all negative (though negative reactions seem to be getting posted here more). It's a bit of an unfair sample at the moment IMO.
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Post by OrionStars on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:35 pm

@Kyla Ren wrote:

I don't know about Reddit, but I browse the forums over at that "other place" (if it's the place I'm thinking of) and my impression is that a lot of them are happy that Kylo dies, but most of them never seemed to like the leaks overall.  And from what I've seen, a lot of them are very upset about the Reylo kiss.  Most of them just hate Reylo so much.  It's like any form of Reylo, but especially a kiss, is a deal breaker for them.
@Kyla Ren
yeah, what they truly desire is Luke's muh baby girl but the overall character arcs of their beloved Vader and Luke get cucked harder than Kylo, lol
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Post by rawpowah on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 5:37 pm

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