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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by OrionStars on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 2:44 am

The war has begun

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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 2:51 am

@Kyla Ren

I dont think they really forgot, they just retconned and didnt care.

They can easily twist it and say that rey was looking at her destiny.
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Post by OrionStars on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 2:57 am

Thank the almighty god for this, you have ease my pain

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Post by Kyla Ren on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:02 am

@Gemini wrote:@Kyla Ren

I dont think they really forgot, they just retconned and didnt care.

They can easily twist it and say that rey was looking at her destiny.
@Gemini

True. Sad
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Post by rawpowah on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:04 am

@Gemini At least Jon Snow ended up surrounded by Wildlings, the people who understood him. He's framed as going to escort them Beyond the Wall with Tormund, where he said he wanted to be. The end shots focus on Wilding children running happily as they go North, and based on the last look Jon gives at the Wall, you can at least infer that he'll just stay with the Freefolk instead.

Rey's ending is much, much worse.
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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:04 am

I still cant believe it lol. Like i still had some insane notion that maybe, just maybe they were all pretending they saw a different movie and were keeping a secret but the critic scores
....nope.

It's like they tried to solve the problem of what what people wanted by giving them something no one actually wanted.

It's just meh....
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Post by rawpowah on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:06 am

@OrionStars wrote:The war has begun

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 YpGKV9x

@OrionStars

lmfaoooo that's lower than The Phantom Menace Laughing
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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:07 am

@rawpowah wrote:@Gemini At least Jon Snow ended up surrounded by Wildlings, the people who understood him. He's framed as going to escort them Beyond the Wall with Tormund, where he said he wanted to be. The end shots focus on Wilding children running happily as they go North, and based on the last look Jon gives at the Wall, you can at least infer that he'll just stay with the Freefolk instead.

Rey's ending is much, much worse.
@rawpowah

True...omg..there was future, there was life!

GoT actually did something better there....wow.
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Post by special_cases on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:10 am

I'm curious what will the reaction be to reviews and CS as it looks like the film is getting destroyed by critics... Also curious how do they feel about it after they were low-key criticising Johnson. Seems all aspects they were highlighting as cool - trio, adventure, new Evil Villain, structure - didn't land at all.
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Post by OrionStars on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:13 am

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 O0D3PbT



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Post by SkyStar on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:16 am

I am sorry but couldn’t they at least do something with Kylo and Leia before they both die. At least make him listen that holo recording she did in Bloodlines. Read a letter by her. SOMETHING. I read that her body disappears when Ben dies and disappears and honestly its just so freaking sad.
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Post by rawpowah on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:18 am

These poor children. Children are the future of SW, and they messed it up.
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Post by OrionStars on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:21 am

@rawpowah wrote:These poor children. Children are the future of SW, and they messed it up.
@rawpowah

All this sith happened solely because of the fact the head of the studio absolutely had no idea which character was the hero that kid wanted
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Post by AcrosstheStars on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:25 am

I’ve seen several reactions and reviews warning parents to consider not to take younger children because of how depressing it is. If that catches on, that could spell doom for the BO and at least for awhile, the franchise in general. The littles are the future and they need them to care to keep it going.

How did they screw this up so badly, how? Neutral  I keep thinking about it and IMO I bet they felt they had to limit Adam’s role in order to push Rey and Finn and Poe (especially Rey), and make it easier to swallow when Ben poofs and Rey Reywalkers it up at the end. But it’s a day late and dollar short for that. People were already too invested in Kylo for this to fly. 

Disney makes some clunker films, that’s nothing new, but this one really blows me away with their incompetence, shortsightedness, and inability to read a bloody room.
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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:27 am

I understand people really like RJ on this forum, not trying to cause discourse with what I'm about to say.

I don't really agree with the notion that TLJ wasn't deserving of criticism just because this movie is much worse. To me both of these films should have stayed true to what TFA and the saga before it had set in Lore/what was setting up. Both did not.

Its so disjointed to me because each film decided to go in totally different directions. RJ did this to TFA. JJ did this to his own work (TFA) and TLJ..Im just baffled, honestly baffled with what happened here with such a huge story which means so much to millions of people.

If RJ had the whole trilogy, this probably would have been fine and would have stayed true to the saga and each episode would be a natural follow on

Not so sure if JJ would have done so fine if he had the whole trilogy..he seems adamant to make extreme changes midway through.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:30 am

TLJ was a masterpiece.
Unfortunately TROS looks exactly as if they wrote a bad fantiction because they didn't like what Rian did.. But frankly most fanfics I've read - even the sad ones - are far better than what has made it onto celluloid.

Novice writers are more skilled than the so called professionals.

They can't retcon this film. But.....I'm waiting to see if angry moviegoers start demanding a n epilogue.

If so we might get one with the DVD release - after all, I'm sure there's a lot unused footage out there. My one hope is Ben wasn't buried, or burned - his body disappeared, but he didn't return as a Force ghost. I can only think he will be back in the comic books in future.
But that isn't fair, because although I'm an avid reader and comic book nerd many aren't. Disney have no right to make a movie they say is the last then more or less hint you'll only find out what happens next if you spend more money..
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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:35 am

@AcrosstheStars

What is the BO?

I've seen this a few times and don't know what it is?
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:39 am

That's great SC.
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Post by reylo1992 on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:39 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@AnneNeville wrote:What if Ben didn’t disappear into the Force? What if he disappeared into REY?

Then she isn’t alone at the end, the force is united, and I can see why she would choose to be a Skywalker...
@AnneNeville
Symbolically that feels like part of the idea here.
@FrolickingFizzgig
I agree. I mean, disappearing just after a 2 second kiss? Nah, don't think so  lol!
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 Captur99
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 Captur98

Daisy hinting at a shocking moment that Josh Gad commented with "WTF", wishing that it would have happened earlier but adding "I love you, I hate you". Josh has always been openly a Reylo so I guess he was satisfied on the one hand but didn't expect that outcome. I would bet that Kylo becoming one with Rey - thus symbolically reconciling the two Light side and the Dark side of a person - is the character plot twist that REG didn't see coming and that made storywise and emotionally sense in his mind. The last Skywalker will defeat his biggest ennemy through Rey. I just don't see for now how doing it through Rey Palpatine makes sense (compared to another option like Rey Kenobi) but we shall see if it's really true or not. Yesterday I came across a tweet from a Reylo fan who complained that it's unfair that old Palpatine got laid and Ben didn't. Spot on!
https://twitter.com/extratv/status/1207097412231106560



Also Mendelson, who didn't like this movie, is an anti-Reylo:
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 Captu100


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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:39 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:These poor children. Children are the future of SW, and they messed it up.
@rawpowah

All this sith happened solely because of the fact the head of the studio absolutely had no idea which character was the hero that kid wanted
@OrionStars


The simple solution is to have an equal duo...like....I just never understood the need for one to be more liked than the other.

Equality is all that's needed in many cases Sad..IMO anyhoo.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:41 am

@Gemini wrote:@AcrosstheStars

What is the BO?

I've seen this a few times and don't know what it is?
Box office.
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Post by Saracene on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:53 am

@Forsythia wrote:I don't understand how JJ can call the ending satisfying and hopeful.
@Forsythia

Honestly, I think it's just JJ being JJ: aping emotional beats from a classic movie without really understanding why they work. Rey is basically our new Luke and Kylo the new Vader; Vader's sacrifice and ending in RotJ is sad but uplifting and satisfying... so if Kylo finally turns to the light in the end and redeems himself through a selfless sacrifice, it's just as satisfying right? All surface.

While I'm sure that the Reylo chemistry and the performances are as wonderful as ever, damn I think I was spoiled by the wonderful writing Rian did for them in TLJ, and Kylo as the individual character as well. This all sounds like much flatter blockbuster-type stuff; Kylo chases Rey and is all "be muh evil queen", until his mum reaches out to him and he sees a vision of his dad. Which is probably an emotional scene, but it sounds like it just all sorta happens arbitrarily because the script says so. There doesn't seem to be much build-up there.
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Post by AcrosstheStars on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 4:09 am

@OrionStars wrote:The war has begun

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 YpGKV9x

@OrionStars

44 reviews now and down to 56%. In my best auctioneer voice: Can I have 55? 54? 50? Going once... Laughing

If this gets down to 50-ish and stays there, I will laugh so hard. I really don’t think most GA will like this either because it just seems like a mess from A to Z with moments of diamonds amidst the trash heap. Overcrowded plot, too many characters to attend to, nonsensical and repetitive stuff, and depressing. But who knows, maybe they will love it. Fandom can be hard to predict.
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Post by Gemini on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 4:10 am

God I wish I did not get so invested in this trilogy. Maybe then I could have just walked in to this one just fine and dandy

this literally all started for 2 reasons for me:

1. JJ seemingly answered the mystery of who Rey was a at the end of TFA..but not quite. I was eagerly anticipating it to follow up that moment.

2. I saw the villain falling for the hero and assumed the two, Rey Kenobi and Reylo were entwined and they were about to give us a stunning masterpiece of a trilogy of redemption, poetry, deeper meaning to the saga...a beautiful book end.

NEVER HAVE I BEEN SO WRONG please. I should have just given up the second I heard there was going to be 3 different directors..I KNEW it.


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Post by Piper Maru on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 4:10 am

@special_cases wrote:
The resolution should be loud and clear. ST seriously suffers from some kind of unknown subtext syndrome which I've never encountered before. The real story is hidden so deep that it feels like storytellers are afraid of it themselves.
@special_cases

Couldn't agree more. It's a problem in TFA and TLJ, but TRoS really knocks it out of the part. Don't get me wrong, symbolism is essential to build an impactful and everlasting story. But if your story lacks any structure and it's built upon layers and layers of subtext/metatext/intertext, it just becomes an abstract aberration that doesn't work at all. Especially because when you rely too much on subtext, sometimes you can end up with conflicting messages that confuse and even hurt the audience, despite the creators' intent. Case in point is Rey Palpatine-Skywalker: the symbolism is that the Daughter of Darkness is revived by the Son of Light and rejects her past and earns a new family name and a new future. Unfortunately, in the context it's presented (Star Wars) it's also about the last Skywalker literally dying so the last Palpatine can live, usurp the family name and become the ultimate hero. This kind of s*** mixed message could've been easily avoided if the text was CLEAR and COHERENT. But well.  Laughing
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