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Rey Kenobi Postmortem

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Post by karamelreylo on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 7:45 am

@Gemini wrote:Toying in the beginning,  followed up by saying different versions, which means most likely the toying means toying with different directions of Rey Kenobi. Most people understand what that means, including media outlets and thousands of people understand what she meant. Its just a select few like you who apparently do "not understand" what she means. To be honest, its absolutely no shock that you don't either. I was expecting it.

You can continue to try and pretend rey kenobi was not there and was never there as you always have, you can continue to try gaslight us. Seriously, its your opinion, you can have it.

Its means nothing to me at all anymore, it also doesn't work on us anymore and hasn't for years.

Who cares what you  think when actual actors and people actually close to the set have confirmed it as Rey Kenobi at the start. As I said, more and more will come out about it. Mark my words. I really could give a sith if any of you still think its "all in our heads", its not, that's a fact. You have absolutley no basis to back up your opinions on it anymore.

Who the hell cares. After what Daisy has said.. like, seriously.

We were right about Kenobi at the start.

You guys were correct with guessing rey Random in the middle. We accept it. We were wrong to still think Kenobi.

No one could have guessed the trauma of Rey Palpatine though. Nobody wins here. Kylo is dead in the ground, rey is not a kenobi or a random. She's a palpatine. The grand daughter of a disgusting, wrinkly ball s**k. Like...thats it, its over. Rey random, gone, Rey Kenobi gone.

I personally don't understand why you are still fighting about this. Kenobi was the early plan they were working/toying with. End of.

If they ever retcon it, she will never, ever be a nobody again though. That I can absolutely, 100 percent without a doubt promise.  Rey Nobody will never, ever happen, ever again. Rey Random is gone forever.
@Gemini

I think some fans just honestly don't like the idea of Rey Kenobi. At least, that's the case for me. It took me almost two years to get to the point of wanting Rey Random between TFA and TLJ, but I didn't want Rey to be related to any legacy character whether it's Skywalker, Palpatine, or Kenobi because I remembered that being force sensitive enough to become a Jedi is random. I will stand by Rey Nobody just as strongly as you stand by Rey Kenobi. Also, fans are allowed to disagree, and I think the Star Wars fandom has forgotten that in general, but that's the case with so many fandoms ever since social media became mainstream. Somebody always has to be right or vindicated and that takes away the fun of theorizing and discussion imo.

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Post by Gemini on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:06 am

@karamelreylo

Thats totally cool, I honestly totally understand why Rey Randomers are upset, the same thing happened to us as it did you, they did a giant uturn with her. Everything you loved about TLJ and her charatacter was spat on by JJ .

I know the pain.

When we say we were right, its only because we were told it was all in our heads and we were originally made to believe we were imagining things. We werr told to stop discussing it anywhere on the board. Its just a relief to know thats not true, thats all it is for me.

And i will happily say it out loud. I was not imagining things.

Also to be force sensitive you need to be related to someone else who is force sensitive.
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Post by Saracene on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:16 am

@Gemini wrote:Toying in the beginning,  followed up by saying different versions, which means most likely the toying means toying with different directions of Rey Kenobi. Most people understand what that means, including media outlets and thousands of people understand what she meant. Its just a select few like you who apparently do "not understand" what she means. To be honest, its absolutely no shock that you don't either. I was expecting it.
@Gemini

Sorry but it’s just your personal interpretation that “different versions” means different directions of Rey Kenobi. And no, me saying this doesn’t make you into some poor gaslit victim.

I’m not denying that Rey Kenobi was an early idea. I simply disagree that there’s any evidence (yet) that TFA was actually made with Rey Kenobi in mind. If JJ Abrams confirms that yes, he definitely saw Rey as Rey Kenobi when making the movie, that would be fair enough. But I honestly wouldn’t hold my breath considering that JJ is notoriously indecisive.

I was never particularly vested in Rey’s heritage including Rey Nobody; IMO the whole thing was handled the wrong way from the beginning and should have never been played like a mystery for the audience. I just disagree about what constitutes evidence.
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Post by Gemini on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:19 am

@Saracene wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Toying in the beginning,  followed up by saying different versions, which means most likely the toying means toying with different directions of Rey Kenobi. Most people understand what that means, including media outlets and thousands of people understand what she meant. Its just a select few like you who apparently do "not understand" what she means. To be honest, its absolutely no shock that you don't either. I was expecting it.
@Gemini

Sorry but it’s just your personal interpretation that “different versions” means different directions of Rey Kenobi. And no, me saying this doesn’t make you into some poor gaslit victim.

I’m not denying that Rey Kenobi was an early idea. I simply disagree that there’s any evidence (yet) that TFA was actually made with Rey Kenobi in mind. If JJ Abrams confirms that yes, he definitely saw Rey as Rey Kenobi when making the movie, that would be fair enough. But I honestly wouldn’t hold my breath considering that JJ is notoriously indecisive.

I was never particularly vested in Rey’s heritage including Rey Nobody; IMO the whole thing was handled the wrong way from the beginning and should have never been played like a mystery for the audience. I just disagree about what constitutes evidence.
@Saracene

And its just your personal interpretation what toying means and what context she meant, and that is all the ammunition  you have now..just nit picking actors choice of words to make it seem less relevant than it actually is.

But i agree about how they handled it, 100 percent agree with you.
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Post by Saracene on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:27 am

@Gemini wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Toying in the beginning,  followed up by saying different versions, which means most likely the toying means toying with different directions of Rey Kenobi. Most people understand what that means, including media outlets and thousands of people understand what she meant. Its just a select few like you who apparently do "not understand" what she means. To be honest, its absolutely no shock that you don't either. I was expecting it.
@Gemini

Sorry but it’s just your personal interpretation that “different versions” means different directions of Rey Kenobi. And no, me saying this doesn’t make you into some poor gaslit victim.

I’m not denying that Rey Kenobi was an early idea. I simply disagree that there’s any evidence (yet) that TFA was actually made with Rey Kenobi in mind. If JJ Abrams confirms that yes, he definitely saw Rey as Rey Kenobi when making the movie, that would be fair enough. But I honestly wouldn’t hold my breath considering that JJ is notoriously indecisive.

I was never particularly vested in Rey’s heritage including Rey Nobody; IMO the whole thing was handled the wrong way from the beginning and should have never been played like a mystery for the audience. I just disagree about what constitutes evidence.
@Saracene

And its just your personal interpretation what toying means and what context she meant, and that is all the ammunition  you have now..just nit picking actors choice of words to make it seem less relevant than it actually is.

But i agree about how they handled it, 100 percent agree with you.
@Gemini

The big difference is that I’m not acting like my interpretation of Daisy’s words is 100% conclusive and proves exactly what was going through JJ Abrams’ head when he was making and editing TFA. Maybe he was thinking Rey Kenobi and maybe he wasn’t. I don’t know and neither do you.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:32 am

Star Wars: Simon Pegg says J.J. Abrams had a more 'relevant lineage' planned for Rey
By Derek Lawrence April 04, 2018 at 04:11 PM EDT


Star Wars: The Last Jedi seemingly put to rest the mystery of who Rey’s parents are, but according to Simon Pegg, J.J. Abrams originally had a more “relevant lineage” in mind.

During an appearance on the Happy Sad Confused podcast, Pegg, who played Unkar Plutt in Abrams’ Star Wars: The Force Awakens, admitted that he was “surprised” the director was coming back for the forthcoming Episode IX. Abrams passed the lightsaber to Rian Johnson for December’s The Last Jedi, in which Rey (played by Daisy Ridley) admits to Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) that she’s from nowhere special. That ruined countless internet theories — and apparently threw a wrench into Abrams’ plans.


“I know what J.J. kind of intended, well, at least what was sort of being chucked around,” Pegg said. “I think that’s kind of been undone slightly by the last one.”


Rey Kenobi Postmortem - Page 6 Source


Last edited by spacebaby45678 on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Gemini on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:35 am

@Saracene wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Toying in the beginning,  followed up by saying different versions, which means most likely the toying means toying with different directions of Rey Kenobi. Most people understand what that means, including media outlets and thousands of people understand what she meant. Its just a select few like you who apparently do "not understand" what she means. To be honest, its absolutely no shock that you don't either. I was expecting it.
@Gemini

Sorry but it’s just your personal interpretation that “different versions” means different directions of Rey Kenobi. And no, me saying this doesn’t make you into some poor gaslit victim.

I’m not denying that Rey Kenobi was an early idea. I simply disagree that there’s any evidence (yet) that TFA was actually made with Rey Kenobi in mind. If JJ Abrams confirms that yes, he definitely saw Rey as Rey Kenobi when making the movie, that would be fair enough. But I honestly wouldn’t hold my breath considering that JJ is notoriously indecisive.

I was never particularly vested in Rey’s heritage including Rey Nobody; IMO the whole thing was handled the wrong way from the beginning and should have never been played like a mystery for the audience. I just disagree about what constitutes evidence.
@Saracene

And its just your personal interpretation what toying means and what context she meant, and that is all the ammunition  you have now..just nit picking actors choice of words to make it seem less relevant than it actually is.

But i agree about how they handled it, 100 percent agree with you.
@Gemini

The big difference is that I’m not acting like my interpretation of Daisy’s words is 100% conclusive and proves exactly what was going through JJ Abrams’ head when he was making and editing TFA. Maybe he was thinking Rey Kenobi and maybe he wasn’t. I don’t know and neither do you.
@Saracene

And I dont interpret her words to mean its not 100 percent conclusive, like you.

We are allowed to believe that its 100 percent just like you can believe its not, we will never change each others minds on the matter.

That being said, I feel similarly to you about the way they handled her lineage.


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Post by Gemini on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 8:43 am

@Saracene

Also, trust me, I don't feel like a victim  im just calling things out for what they once were.


Last edited by Gemini on Tue 22 Sep 2020, 2:59 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Saracene on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 9:11 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:Star Wars: Simon Pegg says J.J. Abrams had a more 'relevant lineage' planned for Rey
By Derek Lawrence April 04, 2018 at 04:11 PM EDT


Star Wars: The Last Jedi seemingly put to rest the mystery of who Rey’s parents are, but according to Simon Pegg, J.J. Abrams originally had a more “relevant lineage” in mind.

During an appearance on the Happy Sad Confused podcast, Pegg, who played Unkar Plutt in Abrams’ Star Wars: The Force Awakens, admitted that he was “surprised” the director was coming back for the forthcoming Episode IX. Abrams passed the lightsaber to Rian Johnson for December’s The Last Jedi, in which Rey (played by Daisy Ridley) admits to Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) that she’s from nowhere special. That ruined countless internet theories — and apparently threw a wrench into Abrams’ plans.


“I know what J.J. kind of intended, well, at least what was sort of being chucked around,” Pegg said. “I think that’s kind of been undone slightly by the last one.”


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@spacebaby45678

More vagueness from a second-hand source. “Kind of intended” and “sort of being chucked around” is just more of “toying”.

Thing is, there was no real necessity or urgency for JJ to make up his mind about Rey’s heritage while making TFA. He very well knew that he wasn’t making or writing the next film and in fact, as far as he was concerned, TFA was the only SW film he was going to make. Whatever happened next was out of his hands, including Rey’s eventual parentage reveal, so what’s the point of thinking too hard about it?

Remember how according to JJ Reylo in TFA is “as much brother-sister thing as it is romantic”? Like yeah clearly here’s a guy who really thought things through.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 20 Sep 2020, 9:31 am

Rey Kenobi Postmortem - Page 6 Tumblr_obfxtmxYyl1v3o2r3o1_540
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Post by Gemini on Mon 21 Sep 2020, 8:15 pm

Also, just an observation. Based off of the response ive seen towards what Daisy said. Reylo would have been accepted more by the antis if she was a kenobi. The last few days, I have seen them accepting it more if that was her linegage. All over twitter and other certain boards. They see the beautiful side of Reylo if she was a Kenobi.

God they messed this up so much.

Spacebaby, we were always saying rey kenobi solidifies Reylo. Even the antis would have accepted it..and now..heres the proof of what we always said. This whole thing has been exhausting...lol
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Tue 22 Sep 2020, 8:41 am

If Disney had not sacked George's plans we would have had a Kenobi / Skywalker-Solo Romance by the midpoint of Episode 2...and yes we would have had midichlorians and Whills but who cares!!


Also, looking back at the casting calls pre JJ Rey Kenobi could have been a girl of mixed race or Asian and a Female Jedi.. no need to shoehorn in diversity in at the midpoint of the story...

Disney balked at Georges first draft because the characters where teenagers but he corrected that in his second draft he submitted to Disney and they still dumped his Plans for the sequel triology
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 23 Sep 2020, 2:11 am

I honestly think JJ was so obsessed with undoing everything Rian did, he forgot to tell a coherent story.
Regarding antis accepting Rey!o if Rey was a Kenobi....I don't give a toss about what antis would accept. Their poison ruined this trilogy. Because of them Rian's work was thrown down the toilet and we got DROSS.

Quite a few of them according to what I've seen on other sites appear to be Finn fans. At the end of the day, their hatred for Ben Solo and Reylo stems from them being peeved that THEIR hero didn't get the girl. This despite Finn having two beautiful ladies hanging on his every word. Boyega fanned the flames by more or less hinting he didn't get the leading man role because of his ethnicity.

I'm tired of the lot of them.
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Post by Geralt_Riv on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 7:53 am

If they wanted to make her a Kenobi, they should have done it in TFA. Rey's lineage shouldn't be a mystery then,at least no longer than to the end of TFA. Instead they showed her as some random girl from backwater planet who happens to be force sensitive. Problems with the sequels started with TFA not TLJ. This movie didn't commit itself to anything. Actually it is the problem of every Disney Star Wars movie/book/comic. They don't want to commit to anything because they have no plan in mind.
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Post by Gemini on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 8:11 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I honestly think JJ was so obsessed with undoing everything Rian did, he forgot to tell a coherent story.
Regarding antis accepting Rey!o if Rey was a Kenobi....I don't give a toss about what antis would accept. Their poison ruined this trilogy. Because of them Rian's work was thrown down the toilet and we got DROSS.

Quite a few of them according to what I've seen on other sites appear to be Finn fans. At the end of the day, their hatred for Ben Solo and Reylo stems from them being peeved that THEIR hero didn't get the girl. This despite Finn having two beautiful ladies hanging on his every word. Boyega fanned the flames by more or less hinting he didn't get the leading man role because of his ethnicity.

I'm tired of the lot of them.
@motherofpearl1

Rian Johnson was obsessed with undoing every last thing that JJ had begun with this story. I feel like people here forget that 8 was not actually the start of this story. 7 was and RJ completely and utterly destroyed it. It was clear from the second that Luke tossed the saber that RJ was giving everyone the arrogant, egotistical, narcisstic middle finger.

RJ was the first stepping stone in destroying this saga,  JJ then put the nail in the coffin.

I dislike them both, immensely. It became a d**k measuring contest with two incredibly arrogant directors.

More women need to be working on films. Its less about ego when they do.
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Post by Atenais on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 2:46 pm

@Geralt_Riv wrote:If they wanted to make her a Kenobi, they should have done it in TFA. Rey's lineage shouldn't be a mystery then,at least no longer than to the end of TFA. Instead they showed her as some random girl from backwater planet who happens to be force sensitive. Problems with the sequels started with TFA not TLJ. This movie didn't commit itself to anything. Actually it is the problem of every Disney Star Wars movie/book/comic. They don't want to commit to anything because they have no plan in mind.
@Geralt_Riv

Agree.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 5:56 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I honestly think JJ was so obsessed with undoing everything Rian did, he forgot to tell a coherent story.
Regarding antis accepting Rey!o if Rey was a Kenobi....I don't give a toss about what antis would accept. Their poison ruined this trilogy. Because of them Rian's work was thrown down the toilet and we got DROSS.

Quite a few of them according to what I've seen on other sites appear to be Finn fans. At the end of the day, their hatred for Ben Solo and Reylo stems from them being peeved that THEIR hero didn't get the girl. This despite Finn having two beautiful ladies hanging on his every word. Boyega fanned the flames by more or less hinting he didn't get the leading man role because of his ethnicity.

I'm tired of the lot of them.
@motherofpearl1

Rian Johnson was obsessed with undoing every last thing that JJ had begun with this story. I feel like people here forget that 8 was not actually the start of this story. 7 was and RJ completely and utterly destroyed it. It was clear from the second that Luke tossed the saber that RJ was giving everyone the arrogant, egotistical, narcisstic middle finger.

RJ was the first stepping stone in destroying this saga,  JJ then put the nail in the coffin.

I dislike them both, immensely. It became a d**k measuring contest with two incredibly arrogant directors.

More women need to be working on films. Its less about ego when they do.
@Gemini

Remind me... the script that Lucas & Arndt submitted had Rey's lineage revealed at the end of episode 7
Q: Was Rey’s fate already planned by J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan as soon as the idea of Episode VII became official ?

DR: Here’s what I think I know. JJ wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy,

I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.


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Post by Gemini on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 7:38 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I honestly think JJ was so obsessed with undoing everything Rian did, he forgot to tell a coherent story.
Regarding antis accepting Rey!o if Rey was a Kenobi....I don't give a toss about what antis would accept. Their poison ruined this trilogy. Because of them Rian's work was thrown down the toilet and we got DROSS.

Quite a few of them according to what I've seen on other sites appear to be Finn fans. At the end of the day, their hatred for Ben Solo and Reylo stems from them being peeved that THEIR hero didn't get the girl. This despite Finn having two beautiful ladies hanging on his every word. Boyega fanned the flames by more or less hinting he didn't get the leading man role because of his ethnicity.

I'm tired of the lot of them.
@motherofpearl1

Rian Johnson was obsessed with undoing every last thing that JJ had begun with this story. I feel like people here forget that 8 was not actually the start of this story. 7 was and RJ completely and utterly destroyed it. It was clear from the second that Luke tossed the saber that RJ was giving everyone the arrogant, egotistical, narcisstic middle finger.

RJ was the first stepping stone in destroying this saga,  JJ then put the nail in the coffin.

I dislike them both, immensely. It became a d**k measuring contest with two incredibly arrogant directors.

More women need to be working on films. Its less about ego when they do.
@Gemini

Remind me... the script that Lucas & Arndt submitted had Rey's lineage revealed at the end of episode 7
Q: Was Rey’s fate already planned by J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan as soon as the idea of Episode VII became official ?

DR: Here’s what I think I know. JJ wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy,

I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.


@spacebaby45678

This is confirmed later by JJ saying there was a plan for where he wanted the trilogy to go. He then said RJ didn't do it and took it left field. Then rather than fix it JJ decided to try do some nonsense instead. Even suggesting he felt he needed to go weird with it because of 8 and because he listened to the loud minorities whining about copy paste 7 (being like 4).

Its a hot mess.

7 will probably go down as the only good one because the director was not influenced by loud minorities and instead was going with his gut instinct.

Online fandoms have destroyed coherent storytelling.

Writers/directors are obsessed with outdoing an intelligent audience/doing the opposite of what the audience has guessed (like GoT). Or buckling to loud, whiny minorities in the fandom, under the false pretence that they represent the entire audience.

Never go ahainst your gut to please loud minorities. They dont represent even a fraction of the actual main audience.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 1:50 am

@Gemini wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I honestly think JJ was so obsessed with undoing everything Rian did, he forgot to tell a coherent story.
Regarding antis accepting Rey!o if Rey was a Kenobi....I don't give a toss about what antis would accept. Their poison ruined this trilogy. Because of them Rian's work was thrown down the toilet and we got DROSS.

Quite a few of them according to what I've seen on other sites appear to be Finn fans. At the end of the day, their hatred for Ben Solo and Reylo stems from them being peeved that THEIR hero didn't get the girl. This despite Finn having two beautiful ladies hanging on his every word. Boyega fanned the flames by more or less hinting he didn't get the leading man role because of his ethnicity.

I'm tired of the lot of them.
@motherofpearl1

Rian Johnson was obsessed with undoing every last thing that JJ had begun with this story. I feel like people here forget that 8 was not actually the start of this story. 7 was and RJ completely and utterly destroyed it. It was clear from the second that Luke tossed the saber that RJ was giving everyone the arrogant, egotistical, narcisstic middle finger.

RJ was the first stepping stone in destroying this saga,  JJ then put the nail in the coffin.

I dislike them both, immensely. It became a d**k measuring contest with two incredibly arrogant directors.

More women need to be working on films. Its less about ego when they do.
@Gemini

Remind me... the script that Lucas & Arndt submitted had Rey's lineage revealed at the end of episode 7
Q: Was Rey’s fate already planned by J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan as soon as the idea of Episode VII became official ?

DR: Here’s what I think I know. JJ wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy,

I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.


@spacebaby45678

This is confirmed later by JJ saying there was a plan for where he wanted the trilogy to go. He then said RJ didn't do it and took it left field. Then rather than fix it JJ decided to try do some nonsense instead. Even suggesting he felt he needed to go weird with it because of 8 and because he listened to the loud minorities whining about copy paste 7 (being like 4).

Its a hot mess.

7 will probably go down as the only good one because the director was not influenced by loud minorities and instead was going with his gut instinct.

Online fandoms have destroyed coherent storytelling.

Writers/directors are obsessed with outdoing an intelligent audience/doing the opposite of what the audience has guessed (like GoT). Or buckling to loud, whiny minorities in the fandom, under the false pretence that they represent the entire audience.

Never go ahainst your gut to please loud minorities. They dont represent even a fraction of the actual main audience.
@Gemini

Yep.
I will say this....I don't think Rian went against what JJ did as much as vice versa. He followed on as much as he could.
Luke walked away because 'he felt responsible'. Han Solo's words in TFA. Rian gave him a very good reason - that terrible misunderstanding one night at Luke's Jedi Academy.
Rey's lineage was never mentioned. Whatever her true identity was, JJ didn't think it important enough to offer any major hints in TFA.
The reylo vibes were shown in TFA. Post that film, people were shipping reylo. It didn't start with TLJ, it started with TFA.
Finn was not shown as FS. He was just shown with a lightsabre. Rian put across rather beautifully that you don't need to be FS to be a hero. The most memorable character in the OT was Han Solo, and he wasn't FS. Neither were any of the members of R1.
People argue that Rian made Finn a buffoon. JJ did that in TFA. Rian developed Finn. He went from comic relief to courageous rebel. Finn killed Phasma. Finn became de facto leader of the little group who went to the Supremacy, not DJ or Rose. Finn was the person who 'rallied the troops' on Crait when people began to doubt.
Finn's role was to create a stormtrooper uprising. That was hinted at when Luke says to Kylo 'the war has just begun' and the camera cut to Finn. JJ destroyed all Finn's character growth and turned him into a lovesick idiot who spent TROS running around screaming Rey's name.
As for the infamous lightsabre toss.....when Rey arrived on Acht To Luke looked anything but pleased to see her. Rian played Luke as a disillusioned sceptic because that's exactly what he appeared at the end of TFA.
TLJ wasn't perfect. Kylo's about face at the end and Rey's behaviour post the throne room was disappointing to me. But it isn't fair to say Rian ruined what JJ set up in TFA.
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Post by Saracene on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 5:47 am

To be fair, I can understand why the infamous lightsaber toss rubbed some people wrong (though it didn’t bother me). It’s IMO not so much the fact that Luke tosses it away, but rather the tone of the moment, which feels borderline comedic just because of the way it’s filmed and the way it cuts out the serious score right at the moment of tossing. I heard giggles in the cinema during this scene every time I watched TLJ on the big screen. I don’t know what Rian’s intent actually was - I mean, JJ hardly intended for the audience to laugh during Ben’s death scene in TRoS so these things can just go wrong. But I think that a lot of fans felt that the lack of gravitas in this moment was disrespectful towards Luke. I’m pretty sure you could have filmed a scene where Luke rejects the lightsaber without ruffling as much feathers.

As for Finn... yeah JJ used him for comedic effect, sure, but he ended Finn’s story in TFA with Finn bravely standing up to Kylo in a fight he had zero chance of winning, and didn’t treat it as something pointless or stupid. TLJ ended the movie with scolding Finn yet again for something he did wrong, which kinda undermined all of his earlier heroics.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:07 am

J.J. Abrams’ Editor Still Feels Very Strongly About ‘Last Jedi’ Consciously Undoing ‘Star Wars’
J.J. Abrams' longtime editors say the director was in a tough position with "The Rise of Skywalker" after what Johnson did to the story in "The Last Jedi."


The outrage over Rian Johnson’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” just won’t go away. On a recent episode of the “Light the Fuse” podcast (via CinemaBlend), J.J. Abrams’ longtime editor Mary Jo Markey shared her belief that “The Last Jedi” made conscious storytelling decisions that undid the narrative setups made in “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” which Abrams directed and Markey co-edited with frequent collaborator Maryann Brandon.Abrams returned to direct last year’s “The Rise of Skywalker,” which Markey defended against claims it retcons Johnson’s “Last Jedi.” Markey did not edit “Rise of Skywalker,” but her career with Abrams also includes “Mission: Impossible III,” “Star Trek,” and “Star Trek Into Darkness.” Markey was Oscar nominated for her work on “The Force Awakens.”

“I couldn’t agree more,” Markey said when the conversation turned to Johnson’s “Last Jedi” script “undoing” Abrams’ “Force Awakens” story. “It’s very strange to have the second film so consciously undo the storytelling of the first one. I’m sorry that’s what it felt like. I don’t even feel that’s true about the third film. It took where the second film ended and just tried to tell a story. I didn’t feel like it was consciously trying to undo — it just didn’t feel that way to me.”


Markey was joined on the “Light the Fuse” podcast by her “Force Awakens” co-editor Maryann Brandon. When Brandon tried to say she enjoyed some parts of “The Last Jedi,” Markey chimed in to say her collaborator wasn’t telling the truth. Brandon added about “Last Jedi,” “It’s a completely different take on the Star Wars saga. To Ryan’s credit, he stuck to what he wanted to do. He wanted to deconstruct the saga and open it up to go a different direction. That is the film he made. I know it’s controversial. Isn’t that kind of good in a way? You bring in new elements. That’s why I say I feel very much in hindsight that the trilogy, the last part of the trilogy, needed one vision.”

“It’s really polarizing,” Brandon continued. “It was hard I think for J.J. and the co-writer to decide what to do [after] with it. It’s like if someone wrote the middle of your novel. Now how do you get the end of the novel?”

Abrams’ “Rise of Skywalker” was mostly panned by critics when it opened last Christmas. The alleged tension between Abrams and Johnson’s “Star Wars” entries has been a talking point for fans for years now, but Abrams was adamant during his “Skywalker” press tour that he wasn’t trying to end the Skywalker saga by negating “The Last Jedi.” As the director told the Associated Press, “The story we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”



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Post by vaderito on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:09 am

@Saracene wrote:To be fair, I can understand why the infamous lightsaber toss rubbed some people wrong (though it didn’t bother me). It’s IMO not so much the fact that Luke tosses it away, but rather the tone of the moment, which feels borderline comedic just because of the way it’s filmed and the way it cuts out the serious score right at the moment of tossing. I heard giggles in the cinema during this scene every time I watched TLJ on the big screen. I don’t know what Rian’s intent actually was - I mean, JJ hardly intended for the audience to laugh during Ben’s death scene in TRoS so these things can just go wrong. But I think that a lot of fans felt that the lack of gravitas in this moment was disrespectful towards Luke. I’m pretty sure you could have filmed a scene where Luke rejects the lightsaber without ruffling as much feathers.
@Saracene


I think that saber toss was meant to be comic. And I think that it rubbed them the wrong way because they felt they didn't get a proper payoff. What they got was Force Projection that most fans didn't see as Luke's advanced Force skill but as "dying from using too much Force". I get where Rian was going with it but I also understand why it didn't work with most fans. It simply wasn't what they consider a payoff. he didn't seem bad*** enough, he didn't go out in a blaze of glory and he didn't seem very Jedi-like either because he mocked Kylo. I've seen all these complaints and they are valid, IMO. If you are going to have a saber toss, you have to have an unsubtle, full on payoff. This is a movie series for 7-77 not for arthouse crowd pondering the meaning of life. Force projection felt like a cheat.

As for whether DR knew or not, I don't believe anything that officials say. Actors are coached what to say, directors and producers straight up BS. You will get much more accurate info from insiders/leakers.



Last edited by vaderito on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Gemini on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:13 am

I'm just peeved with the pair of them.

As a filmmaker and writer the films not being coherent from 7 to 8 to 9, is infuriating for me. This and GOT has taught me a lot as a writer.

What not to do.

I knew back in 2015, this was going to be a mess when someone told me it would be 3 different writers and directors. Why I didn't just go with my gut and leave the franchise back then is beyond me.


Last edited by Gemini on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by vaderito on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:15 am

@spacebaby45678

He wanted to deconstruct the saga and open it up to go a different direction.

Opening up the Saga to go a different direction (not repeating OT, not going ROTJ direction in the next installment) was 100% the right thing to do. Trouble is, his movie didn't resonate not because the audience wasn't ready for new direction but because Rian's style and the way the story was told didn't click. However, Disney made an epic mistake by going back to ROTJ Redux because they didn't understand what people didn't like (not the possibility of the new direction but creative choices that weren't even that original).

@Gemini I think 3 directors was OK but they needed 1 writer or at least 1 showrunner to hold the thing together. KK wasn't that showrunner. She's a producer but not a visionary. I understand why she got the job cause, on paper, she seemed perfect due to producing Spielberg and Lucas projects. But that doesn't make a visionary. She was good with logistics but then that kind of crumbled (all those unnecessary firings). I really don't know what happened. Perhaps the weight of responsibility was too much or Disney had kind of demands she didn't get used to have when working with other studios.


Last edited by vaderito on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Gemini on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:18 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:J.J. Abrams’ Editor Still Feels Very Strongly About ‘Last Jedi’ Consciously Undoing ‘Star Wars’
J.J. Abrams' longtime editors say the director was in a tough position with "The Rise of Skywalker" after what Johnson did to the story in "The Last Jedi."


The outrage over Rian Johnson’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” just won’t go away. On a recent episode of the “Light the Fuse” podcast (via CinemaBlend), J.J. Abrams’ longtime editor Mary Jo Markey shared her belief that “The Last Jedi” made conscious storytelling decisions that undid the narrative setups made in “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” which Abrams directed and Markey co-edited with frequent collaborator Maryann Brandon.Abrams returned to direct last year’s “The Rise of Skywalker,” which Markey defended against claims it retcons Johnson’s “Last Jedi.” Markey did not edit “Rise of Skywalker,” but her career with Abrams also includes “Mission: Impossible III,” “Star Trek,” and “Star Trek Into Darkness.” Markey was Oscar nominated for her work on “The Force Awakens.”

“I couldn’t agree more,” Markey said when the conversation turned to Johnson’s “Last Jedi” script “undoing” Abrams’ “Force Awakens” story. “It’s very strange to have the second film so consciously undo the storytelling of the first one. I’m sorry that’s what it felt like. I don’t even feel that’s true about the third film. It took where the second film ended and just tried to tell a story. I didn’t feel like it was consciously trying to undo — it just didn’t feel that way to me.”


Markey was joined on the “Light the Fuse” podcast by her “Force Awakens” co-editor Maryann Brandon. When Brandon tried to say she enjoyed some parts of “The Last Jedi,” Markey chimed in to say her collaborator wasn’t telling the truth. Brandon added about “Last Jedi,” “It’s a completely different take on the Star Wars saga. To Ryan’s credit, he stuck to what he wanted to do. He wanted to deconstruct the saga and open it up to go a different direction. That is the film he made. I know it’s controversial. Isn’t that kind of good in a way? You bring in new elements. That’s why I say I feel very much in hindsight that the trilogy, the last part of the trilogy, needed one vision.”

“It’s really polarizing,” Brandon continued. “It was hard I think for J.J. and the co-writer to decide what to do [after] with it. It’s like if someone wrote the middle of your novel. Now how do you get the end of the novel?”

Abrams’ “Rise of Skywalker” was mostly panned by critics when it opened last Christmas. The alleged tension between Abrams and Johnson’s “Star Wars” entries has been a talking point for fans for years now, but Abrams was adamant during his “Skywalker” press tour that he wasn’t trying to end the Skywalker saga by negating “The Last Jedi.” As the director told the Associated Press, “The story we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”



@spacebaby45678

Yes RJ undid everything and no it wasnt the right thing to do. Undoing everything is a basic film school level mistake. Even teenagers have a better idea than RJ and JJ.

Thousands of people are not wrong for disliking the undoing. Its not good storytelling. Thats why this franchise has failed.

People would have my head if I said JJ undoing 8 was the right thing to do.


Its just not good writing to do this.
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