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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by SheLitAFire on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 8:55 am

A local radio show's poll on Facebook.
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 5 Screen23

Edit 1: just looked again after an hour. 45% loved, 55% meh

Edit: 2 hours later 46% loved, 54% meh


Last edited by SheLitAFire on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Saracene on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:08 am

@Riri wrote:Have you seen this vid https://twitter.com/mortisgods/status/1208408830322843648?s=21

JJ says if you watch Episode 1-9, its inevitable that the House of Palpatine and the House of Skywalker will come together to maintain balance, but why did he kill one of them then?

The only good thing about that comment is that it’s thematically inevitable that reylo would happen if you watch episode 1-9
@Riri

Hahahahaha what “House of Palpatine”? It’s just one guy until this movie.
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Post by Mila95 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:15 am

House of Palpatine and House of Skywalker, I really can't lmao.Years of the force isn't dynastic only for it to come down to them now being great houses or royal lines like it's Game of thrones.

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Post by rey09 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:18 am

@Mila95 wrote:House of Palpatine and House of Skywalker, I really can't lmao.Years of the force isn't dynastic only for it to come down to them now being great houses or royal lines like it's Game of thrones.
@Mila95

I guess they are going to give us the long lineages of Obi wan, Yoda, mace windu etc. Who the f*** are their parents?! Tell us now!!!

"And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not just that I don’t believe that as part of the canon...but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that"- JJ during TFA

He's a joke.



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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:19 am

@Saracene wrote:
@Riri wrote:Have you seen this vid https://twitter.com/mortisgods/status/1208408830322843648?s=21

JJ says if you watch Episode 1-9, its inevitable that the House of Palpatine and the House of Skywalker will come together to maintain balance, but why did he kill one of them then?

The only good thing about that comment is that it’s thematically inevitable that reylo would happen if you watch episode 1-9
@Riri

Hahahahaha what “House of Palpatine”? It’s just one guy until this movie.
@Saracene

Well it's the Palpatine Saga now...
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:22 am

My husband and I are seeing it again tonight Neutral English is not his first language and he needs to see this WTFery again to process. The movie moves so dang fast that even I had a hard time understanding dialogue at times. Minus a few great scenes, I’m not looking forward to it.

Are fanboys really happy with what they call Rey’s Mary Sueness now that she’s a legacy character? That’s all they needed to be happy with her? Rey Nobody could’ve been embraced by the Skywalkers along with redeemed Ben. They didn’t even have to explain about her parents in my opinion because there are tons of non legacy Jedi in the galaxy (reinforced by Broom boy).

Was the story group really not utilized at all this time around?
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Post by Mila95 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:26 am

@rey09 wrote:
@Mila95 wrote:House of Palpatine and House of Skywalker, I really can't lmao.Years of the force isn't dynastic only for it to come down to them now being great houses or royal lines like it's Game of thrones.
@Mila95

I guess they are going to give us the long lineages of Obi wan, Yoda, mace windu etc. Who the f*** are their parents?! Tell us now!!!

"And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not just that I don’t believe that as part of the canon...but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that"- JJ during TFA

He's a joke.

@rey09

I really think they did originally want to go with this theme but then when the fan response wasn't universal love an acceptance they backed off and we got the House of Palpatine mess.

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Post by rey09 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:31 am

@Mila95 wrote:
@rey09 wrote:
@Mila95 wrote:House of Palpatine and House of Skywalker, I really can't lmao.Years of the force isn't dynastic only for it to come down to them now being great houses or royal lines like it's Game of thrones.
@Mila95

I guess they are going to give us the long lineages of Obi wan, Yoda, mace windu etc. Who the f*** are their parents?! Tell us now!!!

"And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not just that I don’t believe that as part of the canon...but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that"- JJ during TFA

He's a joke.

@rey09

I really think they did originally want to go with this theme but then when the fan response wasn't universal love an acceptance they backed off and we got the House of Palpatine mess.
@Mila95

Few issues.
- JJ didn't know what to think. One time he says no bloodline, now he says o yea for sure
- fan response- such a mistake to rely on fans. Have a POV and stick to it. People will enjoy a good story if it's well thought out. They could have done Rey Skywalker if they wanted in TFA, but even if that's told badly, no one will like it. And a lot of people now who wanted that are saying rey nobody is better than this palpatine mess. It's not so much what she is, but whatever she is, explain it well.
- If they did rey nobody, which is a good message, they still had to explain why she was special, why her. With palpatine, that's the excuse. Actually to make a chosen one story diff from Anakin takes a lot more creativity and thinking and they settled for the easy way out, just make her related to the all powerful. Just lazy.

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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:38 am

198 Mill domestic
373.5 Mill international

no way this movie gets to 1 billion.. I will be shocked if it makes it.. Disney will probably pull some of its bully tactics out to get it there just like it did for TLJ

The brand is damaged.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:40 am

Oh my lord, did he literally say "House Palpatine" and "House of Skywalker?" I don't even know how to begin addressing that. Palpatine was one man, one villain. They were never royal houses and Palpatine wasn't known to have children until the extremely inorganic retcons of this film. The only way you can see this as an inevitability is if you throw out both TFA and TLJ's narrative and themes in order to make everything about a villain who died 3 movies ago. Oh wait.

And as for Terrio saying Rey overcoming her ancestor as a Palpatine is more interesting than Rey being no one... again, extremely against the core of the franchise. Rey and Palpatine have the most cookie-cutter dialogue between a hero and villain that you could possibly get. There's a reason Rian killed Snoke. He talked about it. Snoke had very limited opportunities to ever be a threat outside of a physical one, while Kylo was the child of our heroes who fell to the dark who was vulnerable and volatile. Ben emerging from the shell of his hurt and embracing his family was meant to be a powerful arc, and while that does happen, it happened in a roundabout way that also involved Palpatine being used to dismiss the mistakes his family made to begin with. And wow. That f****ing sucks.

The only way anybody can see Rey Palpatine as being a more interesting obstacle for Rey than trying to navigate a world of somebodies and discover how she can make her own name on her own merits is if you only take it on the surface level of Palpatine physically being there to fight her. These two clowns are sounding dumber and dumber by the second.


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Post by Libra Vibora on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:42 am

I think what pisses me off the most about TROS (besides Ben's death and Rey ending up alone) is that J.J. catered to the worst portions of the fanbase and (probably unintentionally) assured them that as long as they harass, doxx, send death threats to anybody and everybody, they will be catered to.  Now any writer following TROS is going to have to deal with a bevy of harassment from internet nutjobs who are confident that their bullying will be rewarded, no thanks to Abrams and writers of his ilk creating visual love letters to such people.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Are fanboys really happy with what they call Rey’s Mary Sueness now that she’s a legacy character?

From what I've observed and heard, no. The fanboys aren't happy, which makes Abram's anxiety with the TLJ backlash and desire to appease them even more pointless. They were never going to be satisfied and happy, so he, along with TPTB, might as well (post-TLJ) told the fanboys along with the militant Finn stans and fake feminist slackactivists to kick rocks and followed the plot threads and themes of TFA and TLJ.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:51 am

But Rey nobody was never going to fly with the GA ... I know it sounds like a good narrative to some but JJ mislead with the trailers for TFA..
TLJ damaged the brand.. TLJ's box office was frontloaded with good will from TFA and people were expecting answers.. and not just a few people who made theory crafting their living or hobby..

175 mil domestic is a disappointment no two ways around it.

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Post by Mila95 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:53 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Oh my lord, did he literally say "House Palpatine" and "House of Skywalker?" I don't even know how to begin addressing that. Palpatine was one man, one villain. They were never royal houses and Palpatine wasn't known to have children until the extremely inorganic retcons of this film. The only way you can see this as an inevitability is if you throw out both TFA and TLJ's narrative and themes in order to make everything about a villain who died 3 movies ago. Oh wait.

And as for Terrio saying Rey overcoming her ancestor as a Palpatine... again, extremely against the core of the franchise. Rey and Palpatine have the most cookie-cutter dialogue between a hero and villain that you could possibly get. There's a reason Rian killed Snoke. He talked about it. Snoke had very limited opportunities to ever be a threat outside of a physical one, while Kylo was the child of our heroes who fell to the dark who was vulnerable and volatile. Ben emerging from the shell of his hurt and embracing his family was meant to be a powerful arc, and while that does happen, it happened in a roundabout way that also involved Palpatine being used to dismiss the mistakes his family made to begin with. And wow. That f****ing sucks.

The only way anybody can see Rey Palpatine as being a more interesting obstacle for Rey than trying to navigate a world of somebodies and discover how she can make her own name on her own merits is if you only take it on the surface level of Palpatine physically being there to fight her. These two clowns are sounding dumber and dumber by the second.
@FrolickingFizzgig

The was nothing Rey being a Palpatine brought to her fight with Palpatine. It literally was a generic, basic hero villain dialogue, it was so embarrassing imo. There was no emotional investment there like you get with Luke and Vader because Rey doesn't care about Palpatine and he doesn't care about her at all. In the end it's as simple as killing him.

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Post by nickandnora on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 10:58 am

@spacebaby45678 wrote:198 Mill domestic
373.5 Mill international

no way this movie gets to 1 billion.. I will be shocked if it makes it.. Disney will probably pull some of its bully tactics out to get it there just like it did for TLJ

The brand is damaged.
@spacebaby45678

Are these recent weekend estimates?

I mean, this tells only part of the story really. A drop like this from The Last Jedi could probably be explained away (by inside parties) as lost interest after TLJ, but it depends on the percentage drops themselves as time goes due to word of mouth, reviews, discourse, etc. The legs itself are going to tell the REAL story about *this particular film* in isolation. Because if it was supposed to be a course correction that actually worked,  it would be making really consistent money week to week I would think.

But fully understanding the repercussions of this film within the brand will require months and months, unfortunately.

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Post by ZioRen on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:12 am

@OrionStars wrote:@rey09  Yeah, JJ, KK and LFL had made a bunch of NOPE choices. They thought if they left everything vague, people would be curious to buy comics and novels, hahaha. Not to mention they even dare to release teenage Kylo's tragic backstory even though Kylo was used like Rey's phone battery then he was brutally tossed aside in TROS, lol.  WTF are KK and LFL thinking? Do they really think the audience is just a herd of stupid cows?
@OrionStars

Can you please delete the r-word? It's a slur.


Also, the "House Palpatine" and "House Skywalker" scene shows just how out of touch they were with the story. Since when was Palpatine a royal family? In what universe could you watch the previous movies and think it was inevitable that these two "families" would clash like freaking Romeo and Juliet? Palpatine was Palpatine, and Vader's final triumphant moment is finally ridding the galaxy of him.

They're creating connections out of nothing. That's why every callback is unsatisfying drivel. Even if they MUST bring back Palpatine, Rey would have been better served if her parents were "somebodys" in the sense that they were threats to Palpatine and were dispatched for being such, not literally being related to him. Then Rey has a reason to have a personal grudge against Palpatine (he's the reason my life was miserable) without the silly lineage that added nothing to nothing. As if falling to the dark side was a matter of lineage, which it really isn't.

The point of Ben as a character isn't that he was genetically susceptible to the dark anymore than anyone is. It was that the shadow of Vader's legacy weighed down on everyone and ultimately ruined their lives because his family didn't handle it correctly (which as @FrolickingFizzgig says, was a compelling flaw of the OT trio that was unfortunate but made SENSE and TRoS did its best to erase part of that). All of it made sense, and it had nothing to do with the literal blood in their veins. Which is why Rey becoming more and more frustrated by her circumstances makes her lapsing into the dark side also makes sense, lineage that didn't mean a thing to her until the last movie didn't have to be included whatsoever. But for some reason that's just too complex for JJ?
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Post by SheLitAFire on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:27 am

I think I'm gonna keep my tickets for tomorrow and go again. Has anyone else seen it twice yet?
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:29 am

People had accepted Rey as nobody, and that's why Rey Palpatine is going over so poorly except maybe to the fanbrats who are only pleased because their screeching was heard. Even many of those who didn't like it at the time because they thought their fan theories were better eventually came around and stopped caring. It was the right choice for this story and TROS proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt by spending most of its run time focusing on developing everything to serve Palpatine. That's part of the reason this movie comes across as being so stupidly written. JJ and Terrio throwing all their cards in on this ridiculous plot point (Palpatine, Rey Palpatine, Rey and Kylo's connection falling on them being House Palpatine and House Skywalker) is unbelievably stupid. It was the wrong decision. It tore apart the ST and in retrospect it has a lot of negative impact on the OT and PT as well. It's a disaster.

Rian was smart. He understood that Kylo was the villain because he represented the one trying to bring back the old regime. Rey was the new hope emerging from obscurity who had the good core to learn from the mistakes of the past. Those characters were the right villain and hero for the story. It was nuanced and interesting and meaningful to have our protagonist as a commentary on how anybody can be a hero while the villain was the child of our heroes who needed to be saved somehow. I cannot and will not stop saying this because I refuse to listen to BS about how Rey needed to be related to someone because of elements that have nothing to do with this particular trilogy. This was the right story. Terrio and JJ's mess is wrong in every way. It also would have been wrong if Rey was suddenly a Kenobi. Rey "no one" was the meaningful and relevant decision.

Terrio and JJ also made Rey and Ben's emotional connection all about how they're House Palpatine and House Skywalker, and that's awful. There are so many things about this film that bend over backward to fit with Palpatine returning as the main villain. Everything becomes about lineage, how blood gives you special powers (Force lightning), how Rey and Kylo only ever meant anything to each other because they were the ones who "inevitably" had to come together to take down Rey's dead grandfather. Reylo only semi-works in this film because of Adam and Daisy's acting, and I would argue that nothing about the Rey and Kylo scenes before the death star feel even remotely like Rian's excellent take on them feeling like kindred spirits. Again, it's all sacrificed for Palpatine.
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Post by Ramblingrose on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:32 am

@SheLitAFire wrote:I think I'm gonna keep my tickets for tomorrow and go again. Has anyone else seen it twice yet?
@SheLitAFire

No, and I will not do it. I will not buy the DVD or Blueray either, or buy it on Netflix, unless it is included deleted materiale of a happier ending.
Just now I say to Disney: I am keeping my money.
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Post by special_cases on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 11:54 am

Where the heck one can see that a Palpatine and a Skywalker will come together to bring the balance in first 8 movies? WTF? There is ZERO impression of this in PT and OT, nobody was thinking that a Palpatine and a Skywalker CAN unite!

I read a funny story on Twitter that one lady asked people "Who's Rey" in the theatre after screening and they answered "A Palpatine". She said "Yes, I heard it, but who is that?" lol!
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Post by Atenais on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:07 pm

@shii405 wrote:I just saw TROS today. Everything else trash EXCEPT FOR MY REYLO BABIES omggggg the kiss we've been wanting for and Adam/Daisy did that scene soooo well

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 5 Giphy10

But yeah, I cannot believe JJ just used ROTJ template for TROS? its pretty much similar... can't he create something new? As much as I love Reylo climax scene, the rest of Reylo scenes were not as awesome as TLJ, their lines didnt show much bond as much as what they had in TLJ, i understand if haters would say Reylo kiss was so random, tbh I felt the same. Ugggh.... such a big disappointment, why cant they at least let Rian Johnson to write the script! Also, Rey didnt seem to be that affected by Ben's death?? So what was the kiss about? A force fling?

Nothing much makes sense, but I love my baby so much here, Adam did great, I love every Kylo/Ben scenes, esp the Bendemption climax scenes were really done well (despite there was not much buildup for that and for the kiss) and Im ready to return to this fandom just to discuss here everyday abt how awesome the ROMANTIC REYLO moment was!!

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 5 Giphy10

@shii405

Nice to see you back, I was missing your posts. Bad thing, you came back just to share in our frustration. XD

But, really, it's nice to see you back. I always liked your participation here.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:22 pm

Our babysitter got sick and cancelled for tonight so we’re getting a refund on our tickets. I’m so relieved. Maybe my husband will forget about seeing it again in the coming days. Might sound strange, but we’re going to rewatch Marriage Story tonight to feel better Shocked

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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:29 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Riri wrote:Have you seen this vid https://twitter.com/mortisgods/status/1208408830322843648?s=21

JJ says if you watch Episode 1-9, its inevitable that the House of Palpatine and the House of Skywalker will come together to maintain balance, but why did he kill one of them then?

The only good thing about that comment is that it’s thematically inevitable that reylo would happen if you watch episode 1-9
@Riri

Hahahahaha what “House of Palpatine”? It’s just one guy until this movie.
@Saracene

Lol that Romeo & Juliet vibe through
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Post by Kylo Men on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:38 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:People had accepted Rey as nobody, and that's why Rey Palpatine is going over so poorly except maybe to the fanbrats who are only pleased because their screeching was heard. Even many of those who didn't like it at the time because they thought their fan theories were better eventually came around and stopped caring. It was the right choice for this story and TROS proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt by spending most of its run time focusing on developing everything to serve Palpatine. That's part of the reason this movie comes across as being so stupidly written. JJ and Terrio throwing all their cards in on this ridiculous plot point (Palpatine, Rey Palpatine, Rey and Kylo's connection falling on them being House Palpatine and House Skywalker) is unbelievably stupid. It was the wrong decision. It tore apart the ST and in retrospect it has a lot of negative impact on the OT and PT as well. It's a disaster.

Rian was smart. He understood that Kylo was the villain because he represented the one trying to bring back the old regime. Rey was the new hope emerging from obscurity who had the good core to learn from the mistakes of the past. Those characters were the right villain and hero for the story. It was nuanced and interesting and meaningful to have our protagonist as a commentary on how anybody can be a hero while the villain was the child of our heroes who needed to be saved somehow. I cannot and will not stop saying this because I refuse to listen to BS about how Rey needed to be related to someone because of elements that have nothing to do with this particular trilogy. This was the right story. Terrio and JJ's mess is wrong in every way. It also would have been wrong if Rey was suddenly a Kenobi. Rey "no one" was the meaningful and relevant decision.

Terrio and JJ also made Rey and Ben's emotional connection all about how they're House Palpatine and House Skywalker, and that's awful. There are so many things about this film that bend over backward to fit with Palpatine returning as the main villain. Everything becomes about lineage, how blood gives you special powers (Force lightning), how Rey and Kylo only ever meant anything to each other because they were the ones who "inevitably" had to come together to take down Rey's dead grandfather. Reylo only semi-works in this film because of Adam and Daisy's acting, and I would argue that nothing about the Rey and Kylo scenes before the death star feel even remotely like Rian's excellent take on them feeling like kindred spirits. Again, it's all sacrificed for Palpatine.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Rian did get the story right. His execution was a problem, because his flippant sensibility didn't fit; because he viewed too many characters as intellectual chess pieces; and because Rose sucks and drained too much time. But Rey Nobody was the right choice. And freed them from the obvious narratives. And then TRoS went straight back to the easy stuff.

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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:42 pm

@SanghaRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:

@motherofpearl1
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 5 Screen34

I will forever be bitter about THIS. f***** waste of this dyad concept. UGH. Maybe they can still retcon with this to bring him back this is my only hope. Maybe 10 years down the line when Rey is like 30 and she's created her damn jedi order and she wants to have babies lolll. Honestly this a retcon that would be SO worth it. People really want to see Ben back and they could actually force them explore jeid mythology. Perhaps learn about other dyads?

@rey09

Yes, that I don’t understand neither. How can one go on if the other half of the dyad is gone. It doesn’t compute. I guess the only explanation is that he gave her his half, but it doesn’t come across at all. Where is Maz when you need some stupid explanatory scene? So is she now Super Force Woman having the power of a dyad all in herself? I actually was always considering that if LF goes for a strong bond, they might die together. Yes, I know, also a bit depressing, but somehow I would have preferred that option.
@SanghaRen

They had Maz smile when Leia disappeared, probably knoywing what it would mean. Lol, so in TFA she said to Rey that the belonging she seeks was ahead because someone could come back for her...only to be happy that Space R&J just had the time to kiss between their death. I just...On the bright side, TROS still gave me some fun Reylo moments in retrospect. Can you believe that the whole time Kylo was searching for Rey on Kijimi, she was actually in his personal quarters and he told her "I'll meet you there" Laughing
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Post by Atenais on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:51 pm

Next time I would like to watch a trilogy with less mystery boxes. This only makes things more confusing, since it's almost impossible to answer so many things in a satisfactory and coherent way.

To settle so many questions you have to be super creative, and, unfortunately, J.J. showed he isn't.

I still blame LF and Disney for this whole mess, they should have had a more clear direction for this trilogy, a clear backbone story, maybe if they had the script been written by the same person.

I liked the message of Rey Nobody. But Rey Kenobi or Rey Palpatine should have worked if they'd told the story since the beginning.
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