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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Empty Re: Official TROS Spoilers discussion

Post by Sacrebleu on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 12:57 pm

@SheLitAFire wrote:I think I'm gonna keep my tickets for tomorrow and go again. Has anyone else seen it twice yet?
@SheLitAFire

I have. I saw it Thursday early evening and Friday morning.
Sacrebleu
Sacrebleu
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Post by nickandnora on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 1:00 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:
@SanghaRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:

@motherofpearl1
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Screen34

I will forever be bitter about THIS. f***** waste of this dyad concept. UGH. Maybe they can still retcon with this to bring him back this is my only hope. Maybe 10 years down the line when Rey is like 30 and she's created her damn jedi order and she wants to have babies lolll. Honestly this a retcon that would be SO worth it. People really want to see Ben back and they could actually force them explore jeid mythology. Perhaps learn about other dyads?

@rey09

Yes, that I don’t understand neither. How can one go on if the other half of the dyad is gone. It doesn’t compute. I guess the only explanation is that he gave her his half, but it doesn’t come across at all. Where is Maz when you need some stupid explanatory scene? So is she now Super Force Woman having the power of a dyad all in herself? I actually was always considering that if LF goes for a strong bond, they might die together. Yes, I know, also a bit depressing, but somehow I would have preferred that option.
@SanghaRen

They had Maz smile when Leia disappeared, probably knoywing what it would mean. Lol, so in TFA she said to Rey that the belonging she seeks was ahead because someone could come back for her...only to be happy that Space R&J just had the time to kiss between their death. I just...On the bright side, TROS still gave me some fun Reylo moments in retrospect. Can you believe that the whole time Kylo was searching for Rey on Kijimi, she was actually in his personal quarters and he told her "I'll meet you there" Laughing
@reylo1992

OMG, yes thank you for reminding me. I actually loved that part. "Oh, you're in my room? Cool, I'll be right over. I have something to tell you and I should probably do it face to face. You'll still be around, right? See you soon! XOXO." Laughing


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Post by Krafty on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 1:08 pm

Oh man oh man, lookie here...
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Screen20
Watch HERE
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Post by bruna8728 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 1:09 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:But Rey nobody was never going to fly with the GA ... I know it sounds like a good narrative to some but JJ mislead with the trailers for TFA..
TLJ damaged the brand.. TLJ's box office was frontloaded with good will from TFA and people were expecting answers.. and not just a few people who made theory crafting their living or hobby..

175 mil domestic is a disappointment no two ways around it.

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 DisneyStudios
@spacebaby45678

I didn't know that GA was so unconfortable with Rey nobody, I was GA before TLJ and never imagined that Rey was related to a legacy character.



@Mila95 wrote:

The was nothing Rey being a Palpatine brought to her fight with Palpatine. It literally was a generic, basic hero villain dialogue, it was so embarrassing imo. There was no emotional investment there like you get with Luke and Vader because Rey doesn't care about Palpatine and he doesn't care about her at all. In the end it's as simple as killing him.
@Mila95

Yes, it was "Killing what you hate" (Rey killing Papatine) and "Not saving what you love" (Rey could not save Ben from death) - of course I know that Ben saved what he loved, but talking about Rey's POV, you know the protagonist POV.

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Post by nana7marie on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 1:27 pm

The fact that we have to go through all that mental gymnastics to even try to make sense of this movie speaks of its quality. No matter how much we’ll continue to think it over, new issues are gonna keep emerging - the writing of TRoS is simply too bad. My thoughts constantly come back to how Abrams and Terrio wrote dialogues in TRoS - as if the characters talked not to each other, but us - the audience - dumb audience, I have to add. I’ve already mentioned Kylo’s lines with Rey Palpatine reveal but there’s so much more - one of my favourites is when Rey tells Kylo that she sees through the cracks in his mask. I mean, we know how the cracks represent his own self coming through his Kylo persona, how he’s still shattered - we had whole metas written on this topic as soon as Kylo’s costume design leaked, we really do get visual storytelling and don’t need it spelled out as if we were stupid. Evil or Very Mad  TRoS really is meant for the less bright fanboys and dudebros, who don’t comprehend nuance and subtleties and have difficulties with identifying symbols and metaphors - the same ones who keep harassing Johnson two years after TLJ premiered and bullied Tran off social media - misogynists and racists. Censored  Rey’s character has been done dirty - Kylo has even been given the lines that Rey doesn’t have power and instead has Palpatine’s power  Rolling Eyes , Tran’s role has been reduced to a minimum, whereas Leia has been turned into a Jedi - her character was always a politician, she had her own strengths and attributes, and as much as I understand that some people wished she’d been a Jedi in the OT and had her own cool lightsabre cos why shouldn’t girls have fun too, the last installment of the saga is a little too late for such alternations and it really seems it’s only for those that still can’t get over Leia’s TLJ moment and God forbid could throw a tantrum again if she dared to teach Rey something about the Force. It’s disheartening that Lucasfilm decided to pander to haters, rather than continue with the story that was meant to feature a female protagonist going through her own feminine journey presented to us through female gaze and targeting primarily women. They basically screwed us over despite our support and dedication, in a story that was supposed to be ours more than any other in the franchise so far. I guess they simply prefer fans who insult them 24/7 and drop an occasional death threat every now and then. Nope

And here we come to ratings - there’re people who’ll enjoy SW no matter what because they’ll enjoy most other blockbusters too - the need some entertainment, some fun, something to reset their mind. They’re pretty much always in the GA - they liked TRoS fine but still preferred TFA and TLJ, both so different from each other yet undeniably better crafted. So was it worth it to alienate critics and cinephiles who look at films in much more depth as well as part of the fandom that’s so invested in the story? Because Lucasfilm catered to demands of the other part of the fandom, the significantly less noble one.

I feel so frustrated. Sad  My emotions constantly fluctuate between shock that this has happened at all, anger for Disney/Lucasfilm succumbing to hate and sadness that such a meaningful piece of our culture has been treated like garbage. I remember after TLJ screening (and TFA, as I saw them together, but it’s TLJ that made me hooked) I was so hyped, so excited that it felt as if I was high on meth! It was just ahead of Christmas and I had so much stuff to do but couldn’t find energy for it and boom - here comes the energy buzz - I did everything, with a smile on my face and in a good mood for the first time since ages. Even last year I was cleaning, cooking,and baking while listening to SW soundtracks rather than Christmas songs. This year I feel so defeated *sigh*.

@nickandnora wrote:This is true, BUT a plan wouldn't have been needed if the third writer was someone who had Rian's sensibilities as a creative person.

Setting aside whatever one's personal feelings are about TLJ/Rian for a moment, we have been told that Rian was essentially on J.J.'s a** from the second he started writing the script. He attended TFA filming, looked at the dailies, asked him a million questions. He said he wrote his script specifically to follow from J.J.'s. He practically lived with the story group for a time. I know some people (I believe yourself included) think that TLJ doesn't follow from TFA. But what is see (and I think a lot of other people do here), is that it resoundingly, absolutely DOES and it's because of Rian's dedication to craft.

TROS... does not. What they needed was someone to come in and do exactly what Rian did when following J.J's script. Someone needed to study TLJ, the decisions made, talk to Rian, get his input, consult the story group, etc. Unfortunately they became pressed for time due to a lot of factors but even then. If they just had someone who was willing to honour EVERYTHING that came before it - and honestly so, not the way J.J. is paying lipservice to right now - then a huge overarching plan wouldn't matter.
@nickandnora
@Forsythia wrote:It's also weird trying to shove off responsibility and blaming it all on RJ's decisions. If JJ can't make up his mind about which story he wants to tell and leaves everything up for interpretation, he can't complain that Rian goes in a different direction. If JJ himself didn't have a clue what he was doing, how was Rian supposed to know what JJ wanted? It seems that at least Rian had a vision and was willing to make choices. It's terrible that Rian gets blamed for the mess and people defend JJ for having the difficult task of continuing TLJ, when the root of the problem seems to be that LF and JJ never had clear plan for the ST.
@Forsythia
@MindAndMagic wrote:Honestly, I just wish RJ had written and directed the whole trilogy. We wouldn't have ended up with this mess if that was the case. As much as I acknowledge JJ's great casting instincts, it's becoming clear to me he didn't really have a clear idea of what he was doing with these characters and didn't realise the potential they had. It was people around him like L Kasdan who were more in tune with the compelling aspects of those dynamics, particularly Rey and Ben.

Say what you want about RJ, the choices he made in TLJ may not appeal to everyone's taste and that's only natural. But one thing that is undeniable is that this person had creative vision. He knew what he wanted and where he was going. Thus we got a film that stood out, made you think, had nuanced characterizations/interactions and unique visual style. I will never stop respecting that. We got the best Rey/Kylo moments (especially the hand touch scene, which is my favourite ST trilogy moment) under his direction and I'll always be thankful for those. He never tried to appeal to any fanbase or even worse, try to please everybody by ticking items off a nostalgia checklist. Even more importantly, he handled the controversy surrounding his own film with grace and always showed respect towards everyone he worked with. I'm seeing Knives Out tomorrow and based on what I've heard, will surely enjoy myself.
@MindAndMagic
Claps

@special_cases wrote:OH MY GOD

"The white was just my desire to have her close the entire story in the same way that Carrie Fisher began it — all dressed in white. I liked that full-circle feeling. [...] J.J. wanted to end it the way Rey started." Michael Kaplan

https://twitter.com/sleemo_/status/1208166424566489088
@special_cases
@Forsythia wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/ar1aster/status/1208315052773658625

Chris Terrio saying Rey finding out she is a Palpatine is a more interesting story than Rey coming from nothing Rolling Eyes
@Forsythia
Kill me now.

@OrionStars wrote:Sad Sad Sad Sad About to C About to C About to C About to C

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 KRP4VU8
@OrionStars
@motherofpearl1 wrote:At the end of the day all I really wanted was Ben to live.
Having him as 'living inside Rey' or a Force ghost, isn't enough.

Whoever decided on this ending...it stinks.
Star Wars was once about hope. Not only have they ruined this film they've forever tainted the entire saga. The Skywalkers are gone. A Palpatine taking the name is sickening.
@motherofpearl1
@spacebaby45678 wrote:I don't care how beautifully they killed Ben Solo.. it should have never happened... END OF!!

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Giphy
@spacebaby45678
@Saracene wrote:It’s ridiculous if they feel that, in order to close off the Skywalker saga, they needed to kill off the Skywalker family. What about just... not making any more movies about the family and moving on? But of course they can’t even fully commit to that, and end the movie with the family dead but a valuable brand name still on the table in case they want to milk it some more.
@Saracene
Exactly! Had the movie been good and with Ben alive at the end, we’d all have had a blast, felt uplifted and got a closure to the story of this family and could simply move on and likely be excited for their future non-Skywalker projects. But nope.

@ZioRen wrote:To be fair, I think Force Sensitive Finn was more about catering to John Boyega than to the worst of Finn fans. He clearly wanted that since TFA. And it still feels thrown in considering it doesn't really affect anybody but him or have a bigger place in the story.

What they did to Rose, however, was unforgivable BS. I cannot separate the real life context from that decision and I'm disgusted with it. For all the moping and whining from others, Kelly had the most reason to be upset and she didn't show it whatsoever. She shows up happy, excited, killing it on the red carpet.
@ZioRen
Regarding Force sensitive Finn, that’s exactly my feeling too - I kept wondering about it already while watching TRoS. As for Rose, it’s plain obvious her importance was reduced due to backlash from certain corners of the fandom - everything that happened during the marketing campaign ahead of the premiere, with the poster design (Klaud vs Rose) or Tshirts (this one was the final nail in the coffin and began #WheresRose), fits perfectly. And unfortunately I’m sure Boyega was at least pleased with this turn as his character suffered from Rose’s backlash by extension - and we all know what kept and I’m confident will keep popping up re: throwing shade on TLJ or Tran. Mad

@Kylo Rey wrote:Watched the movie on Thursday. It was comically bad. Not just a bad SW movie, but a horrible movie in general. One of the most ridiculously paced and convoluted movies I’ve ever seen. Felt like they must have been hopped up on cocaine editing this. Adam (bless him) did what he could with that horrible, cringeworthy dialogue. Maybe he could make the prequels watchable after all, he’s that good. I’m never gonna forgive them for Rey Palpatine and Ben’s horrible death. Amateur hour. One of the worst deaths I’ve seen in cinematic history. I dunno what the heck went on behind the scenes of this movie but it really did feel like they were trying to crap on Adam’s character or something. Him, KMT and Rian Johnson got screwed over.

Redeemed Ben Solo was amazing though. So much like his father. And he was so hot too. The Death Star fight was awesome as well.
@Kylo Rey
Approves

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Re: the LEAKERS. The biggest plot twist of the ST is that all the leakers were trying to save this film, even the anti-Reylo leaker.
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I think the lack of any comments from the story group and the fact that multiple members of the story group have ghosted or have pinned Tweets explaining that they didn't work on TROS speaks for itself. The plot holes and lack of cohesion, the fact that half the film seems to have been left on the editing room floor and the very real comments from the premiere party that employees were disappointed with the film/Rey Palpatine are also a huge indication. Something very, very bad was going on within LucasFilm the past couple of years.
@FrolickingFizzgig
@Birdwoman wrote:The fact the movie leaked months in advance and nothing was done to take them down is still shocking to me. Did a LF employee do it? Rian and company ran a very tight ship. Not much leaked from TLJ.
I hope we have a novel about Kylo and what he was up too between TLJ and TROS. Besides having meetings and trying to find his ex girlfriend. lol
@Birdwoman wrote:Something is up. I was listening to scavenger's hoard podcast, they mentioned that the movie changed Poe's canon backstory set up by the books and comics. I am sure the story group was super thrilled about that....
If true, what a clusterf***. It will be interesting to see what the story group does to fix the conflicting stories.

Poe had a couple of years being a revel fighter but secretly running drugs....
@Birdwoman
@special_cases wrote:While I think that JJ is responsible for this mess, I suspect that Iger was genius mastermind behind this direction.

Did you watch Popcorn interview with JJ when he joked that if you hate TROS, he will respect you and if you love it, he will question your sanity. Good joke. In my language, there is a saying: "Every joke is partly a joke [ because everything else is just a truth]"
@special_cases
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I definitely don’t think that behind the scenes “leak” is fully true, but there may be something to it. Jedi Paxis didn’t even report about Kylo crawling out of the pit and sharing a kiss with Rey until the last minute. Could it be because they were really reworking the film until then? Maybe the supposed reshoots were just them filming a bunch of different possibilities so the higher ups could decide what “worked” in the editing room?
@Cowgirlsamurai
@loversinthestorm wrote:I know the main opinion is jj and kk wanted to kill Ben but I keep going back to that Interview where one of then says they had to change something (maybe Bob Iger or Disney asked them) because even if they did not want it, the Skywalker saga had to end.
@loversinthestorm
@nickandnora wrote:You know, I like to think I'm a reasonable person who is not prone to conspiracy theories. Yes, I really analyzed those leaks for error, but in the end there WAS a huge omission so I feel somewhat validated in this respect.

But I'm starting to have this niggling feeling, especially in the last 24 hours, that something was indeed cut out, and perhaps even mandated to be cut out. Just... something is odd. The way the conversations/interviews shifted since April at celebration. The fact that the cast seemed subdued after they supposedly saw it a few weeks ago (remember the interview panel the next day). Adam's absence and silence. The fact that Ben's death makes no sense within the larger context, even of this film. The purported 10-15 minutes (I might not have that number exactly right) that were cut within the last few months. The title of the last track "A New Home." The Art book being delayed. Rey not having a long enough reaction to his death. The final scene lacking closure. John saying (and someone can find what this is from) that he "heard the ending might be changing." Even (and I realize this is a huge stretch) Adam associating "Leaving on a Jet Plane" with Kylo (do I have that anecdote right? someone else can confirm). And in that same vein, the insinuation from Adam that his last scene had LINES.

Here's what I'm starting to wonder... was Ben supposed to be revived (maybe by Leia sacrificing her lifeforce instead of becoming a force ghost) and was he then supposed to fly away and go in hiding, with the Rey and Ben meeting again one day on Tatooine? Is that what was left on the cutting room floor and replaced with what we got instead? Because if so... Jesus.

I don't buy the entirety of that inside info anecdote from the other thread. But I *could* somewhat buy the end part of it; that this movie was ordered to be chopped up by some higher ups. If this is what happened, and there's actual FOOTAGE of another ending out there somewhere (actually scratch that - of an actual longer movie that wasn't chopped up the way it was)... I mean. Damn.

I have no reason to fully believe this. Part of me doesn't. Part of me doesn't WANT to; I'd rather believe this is the movie they made and oh well if the choices suck. But if there's something else out there... well... how do we go about finding it and making things right? Lol. Reylo community goes on a quest for the MacGuffin for real?

Again, I hope this doesn't come across as kooky. I just had to get it out.
____________________________________________________________

I don't want anyone to think I'm latching on to some nutty idea that I'm then going to pursue and talk about ad nauseum as some kind of coping mechanism. I actually don't want to believe this at all and hope I can just move past the niggling thought. I'm quite tired of these Faustian quests for inside information, if I'm being honest with you, lol. The saga films were always it for me (doesn't matter what's happening afterwards, I'll probably be gone in a few weeks for good) and I'd just like to move on like I always was going to. But still, it's the reason why I'd like to know if anecdotes at the top of this page have any basis to them. I've always been a lover of stories first and foremost, and to ruin a perfectly good one that spans generations and decades for some kind of mandate is really awful, IMO.
@nickandnora
God, I need to know all the drama regarding the production of TRoS, starting with Trevorrow and finishing with the infamous leaks. It’s such a mess that my curiosity and bewilderment are off the charts. Also, I didn’t get my closure and catharsis with TRoS, I might as well enjoy some shadenfreude.  Twisted Evil
There’s that Mashable article circulating on Twitter that’s been already shared here, that claims anonymous Lucasfilm employees have been very against Rey Palpatine as well as other ‘creative’ choices in TRoS. The reylo who attended the world premiere and the after party says the same.
I live for the drama, give me the drama.

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I've just seen some very interesting theories on twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/xoxoreyloxoxo/status/1208521320524374017
@motherofpearl1
This tweet lists pretty much all of my own suspicions.

@LadyHa wrote:

Behind the scenes: A Star Wars Story





by LadyHa

2012






Disney: We just bought Lucasfilm for billions of dollars. To maximize our investment, we must find more demographics we can reach.

Research team: Western women with disposable income are underrepresented in the fandom.

Disney: Find out what they like.

Research team: Their top faves include Austen, the Brontës, Beauty and the Beast, and Phantom of the Opera.

Story Group: Here’s some obvious ways to incorporate those faves into a script- class differences, a Byronic hero, rose petals, and underworld imagery.

KK: Oh, have I got the actor for you!

Disney: Dew it.

TFA is released






A smallish fraction of the newly targeted demographic, now known as “Reylos”: Whoa! This is speaking to us? Color us obsessed.

General Audience: So cool. We love Han Solo. Rey must be Luke’s daughter.

Disney: $$$$$$$$ This is fantastic! Double down!

Rian Johnson: My romantic partner is a feminist film scholar. I got this.

TLJ is released






Growing Reylo fanbase: OMG! Pride & Prejudice! Sexual imagery! Adam Driver! I now go to Cons!

General Audience: Huh. I don’t know what to think.

Some faithful long time SW fans: No no no no no no no no no no no!

Malicious fanbrats: Burn the world to the ground!

Disney: Danger! Warning! We must find out what everyone wants!

Research team: OK, here’s a list to choose from. More rousing adventures, bad-a** Finn, Rey-related, less Rose, Rey training, Reylo, as many OT references and characters as possible, new planets, more spaceships, more “hot” women, FinnPoe, FinnRey, angsty Kylo, Bendemption, queer representation...

Disney: Dew it, JJ. All of it.

Story Group: Sayonara.

TRos is released






Reylos: We are devastated.

General Audience: Neat. We get it.

Fanbrats: Heh heh.

The end.
@LadyHa
LMAO, brilliant - funny and sadly pretty much true. ROFL

@nickandnora wrote:I have thought, increasingly over the course of the past few days, that they might have something more immediate up their sleeves in terms of books or comics if they really did this open-ended thing on purpose (and I've already referenced how I think it might supposed to look more closed). If there's some story to be told about where Ben is and Rey's mission to find him, this is how it will be told, not through film. It's unfortunate, but I guess we're lucky with what we did get. They can expand more with books.
@nickandnora
@Lily Snape wrote:And I thought the lack of a Force Ghost makes it easier to bring him back.  Just a thought.
@Lily Snape
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I'm also hoping that the lack of a Force ghost means he's not really dead.
I remember in the original Wrath of Khan Spock put his memories - his soul - into McCoy before he died, then in The Search for Spock when his body was regenerated by Genesis they were able to return his soul to his body and bring him back. Unlike Star Trek Star Wars. is more spiritual so maybe Ben 'merged' with Rey and they might be able to 'separate' them and bring him back in the flesh as well as the spirit.

The only way they can redeem this film is to release a Director's Cut ( or maybe a Reylo cut lo!) where we see the edited scenes and change the ending. But I doubt Disney will do that.
@motherofpearl1
@Kyla Ren wrote:This is what I hope as well.  But even if that was the idea and they're trying to keep their options open, I kind of doubt that we'll see Ben brought back to life in a movie. Sad  Although I would love it if they did.  It seems more likely that they might do that in a book or a comic. But even if they did bring him back in the future, would he get to be with Rey?  I don't want to see either of them with anyone else.  I am just so emotionally invested in Reylo. Sad
@Kyla Ren
@Saracene wrote:I would totally watch Episode X: The Search For Ben Smile

It’s totally possible that they could bring him back (no one is ever really gone lol) at some point in the future.
Re: lack of force ghost in the end though, I wonder if it’s simply because they didn’t want to remind the audience that Rey is taking on the name Skywalker when she just made out with a Skywalker by blood. If it’s meant to be “choose your own family” sort of thing, it can come off a tad awkward. Or maybe it was just JJ being JJ and thinking only about the context of the scene in isolation, like, Rey is burying the lightsabers of Leia and Luke so it makes sense to only have Leia and Luke appearing in the scene.
@Saracene
Yeah, my dream scenario is an added scene to the home release, or at least to the novelisation, or in the worst case some post-TRoS ancillary material. Nothing will salvage the script and editing but at least some dubious ‘creative’ choices could be course-corrected.

@ZioRen wrote:It's funny because I'm torn at Ben "coming back to life." On one hand of course I want more of him! On the other hand, I'd like for JJ and his ilk to find at least a shred of integrity and stick to their guns when it comes to their own story. Because goodness knows that seems to be an impossibility.
@ZioRen
I understand the struggle - yet I’d love an added scene to the home release somehow showing he’s alive after all - it’d at least change the ending to an uplifting and hopeful one since the movie’s such a downer and basically s*it story-wise.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I’m nervous about the novel now. Especially after JJ made that comment about them also being like brother and sister. Who KNOWS what Rae Carson’s been told to write? I swear, if she turns the kiss in to a, “Thank you,” gesture and then also drops Rey’s feelings about his death in the follow up... No
@Cowgirlsamurai
She tweeted this:
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 8d301610
source
Here’s hope the fans she meant are us.

@guardienne wrote:did anyone else feel that TROS was just a whole bunch of best of fantasy elements from the last 20 years? i was like, oh this is a horcrux and this is moria and ... there is meriadoc brandybuck and ... GoT, natch.
@guardienne
LMAO yes, the TV spot with Kylo arriving at Palpatine’s already gave me LotR vibes with those massive statues. Which I didn’t mind at all as I adore LotR and it’d have probably remained anyway, but especially in these circumstances it remains my favourite franchise.

@Socialnole wrote:How would you all feel if Lucasfilm says in January...that they are planning to continue the saga series with Rey?
@Socialnole
Thank you, next.

@Socialnole wrote:Should have clarified that at some point Ben would come back in the series.

@Socialnole
Now you have my attention!  Lolilol

@SheLitAFire wrote:I think I'm gonna keep my tickets for tomorrow and go again. Has anyone else seen it twice yet?  
@SheLitAFire
There’s no way I’ll spend anything to watch TRoS in the cinema again - I may as well throw away my money. I’ll have another go, though, to process it fully but I won’t waste my money on that - I bet it’s already online, I just need more time before I decide to re-watch this monstrosity. Also, I don’t wanna contribute to their revenue.

@Ramblingrose wrote:No, and I will not do it. I will not buy the DVD or Blueray either, or buy it on Netflix, unless it is included deleted materiale of a happier ending.
Just now I say to Disney: I am keeping my money.
@Ramblingrose
Thumbs up

@special_cases wrote:The video of Q&A with JJ where he was talking about Reylo since TFA was taken down by the person who posted it. Lol, buddy, we know that Kasdan was behind this dynamic and he made it sexual.

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Opera_29

https://twitter.com/postedbygaslite/status/1208444711264018433

@special_cases
I can believe that Reylo was one of the possible outcomes, rather than the outcome, of the ST post-TFA as there were still two movies to go and technically they could take it in other directions. But Abrams can quit with his obvious lies that it could be any direction because siblings sure as hell was never happening - it’s the colour-blind casting you’ve already mentioned as well as his ‘Rey’s parents are not in TFA’.  Eh bien His answer is basically to validate everybody’s speculation post-TFA - everybody’s right cos anything could happen, let’s please everybody - by pleasing nobody.

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:God, I wish there was some way we could thank Rian Johnson for being a wonderful human being and for bringing the most beautiful takes to the franchise. Rian had something to say about Star Wars and he said it with confidence, with a unique voice, with all his soul. Lineage doesn't define you, you're more than where you come from, the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi or the Sith, it lives in all of us. The Force is everywhere.

I would love to start a thank you card with signatures for Rian Johnson somehow. Is there a way to do this? We can write messages and spread it around Twitter, Reddit and Tumblr. I need Rian to know that he is appreciated, that his choices are valid, that is writing means something to people.
@FrolickingFizzgig
A THOUSAND TIMES YES!  H-beating We managed to do something similar for Tran re: erasure of Rose and Driver to show our gratitude for playing Ben Solo and I’m so happy and proud it all worked out beautifully. There’s also a project where people show how Ben Solo’s character has been important for them, how they relate to his struggles and identify with him, and they want Lucasfilm to notice - I have it bookmarked and will share today.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Our babysitter got sick and cancelled for tonight so we’re getting a refund on our tickets. I’m so relieved. Maybe my husband will forget about seeing it again in the coming days. Might sound strange, but we’re going to rewatch Marriage Story tonight to feel better Shocked
@Cowgirlsamurai
Good choice! I also comforted myself with ‘Marriage Story’ and ‘The Fellowship of the Ring’ for a thorough cleanse.

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Hey guys, here's today's reminder that Palpatine had sex. Palpatine f***ed. And not charismatic "human" Palpatine from the prequels, but dead Sith Emperor Palpatine from the OT. He had sex with a woman and conceived a child.
@FrolickingFizzgig
STOP, I WAS EATING!!! lol!
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Post by nickandnora on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 1:36 pm

@nana7marie Read what I wrote in another thread. What do you think? What does everyone thing? Is this a "campaign" (god, I hate that word in relation to this and that I'm even considering it) that makes sense, if a group of sensible people spearheaded it?

Does anyone have any idea how this mess could be rectified?
The only thing that comes to mind is that IF there is a longer edit (that is still bad, but at least makes more sense) with a different, more optimistic ending, campaign in earnest to have it released. Screaming on the internet seems to have bought some other fans goodwill. Maybe the rest of the fandom should start a more organized movement with a very specific and realistic goal (if anyone can indeed prove this longer version exists) and do some "screaming" of their own (holding those who are likely ACTUALLY responsible - read: not the actors - accountable).

*shrug* I would keep an eye out for a few more weeks for evidence that something like this (a longer, different edit) actually exists, see what insiders and sources come out of the woodwork, and start drafting those strongly worded letters, lol. Where things like the GoT remake petition, and even the petition to write something new to bring back Ben Solo (through some new movie Rian writes) are wrong is that they aren't making any sort of realistic demand that could ever be granted. But this? If this is a thing that exists (if. IF. IF IF IF) and it actually goes about making things somewhat right, then this is what I think should be done.

Of course it won't fix the insidious problems and farther reaching implications of what happened with this film (racism, misogyny, and corporate mandates based on the aforementioned two things winning the day), but it would be a start.

Really the basis of this would be IF and ONLY IF there is another edit, people should campaign to make it see the light of day (sooner rather than later, and make a bigger deal out of it than just releasing a scene or two on a DVD). It's a touchy thing to start when emotions are high, but it might empower people out of a slump and channel their emotions into something that makes them feel better. And if there's no conspiracy, or no alternate edit/ending, and literally no one is willing to come out and talk about it because it doesn't exist (because truthfully, if it does exist I think someone WOULD talk about it if prodded - I'd start with the Art of TRoS guy, lol) then we all have our closure and move on for real.

You know: Rebellion/Resistance agains the evil FO, lol. ;-)

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Post by Lily Snape on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 1:44 pm

@spacebaby45678

Hmmm, palate cleansers?  May I suggest:  

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 F9020410

Yesterday, a sweet rom-com about moral choices (and music).  

Or while we are on the music theme, how about Coco, one of the all-time best Disney films, story about family legacy and dealing with the sins of the previous generations that actually ends happily?  

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Cf5b0b10

Or one last one— this little gem.  My favorite movie of all time, a film that managed to be challenging and shocking and romantic and hopeful without pandering.  Two of the lines from it are carved inside my wedding ring, and those lines were referenced in one of the few good scenes from The Rise of Skywalker.  Hang in there, you guys.  

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Post by special_cases on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:04 pm

@nana7marie Oh my God, how could I forget about that brilliant Rey's line when "she sees through the cracks in his mask". This is exactly a Shakespearian allegory one would expect from a scavenger while talking to any Supreme Leaders around. They made her talk like SNOKE. It's more terrible than Anakin's "I can't breathe" or "I hate sand" because he is trying to express his own feelings. Rey is here mostly informing the audience that Kylo is still conflicted and maybe a nod that she is aware of this. Wait, maybe it's some meta callback to how Ani is bad with romance talk? scratch Very Happy
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Post by vinventure12 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:16 pm

@Ramblingrose wrote:
@SheLitAFire wrote:I think I'm gonna keep my tickets for tomorrow and go again. Has anyone else seen it twice yet?
@SheLitAFire

No, and I will not do it. I will not buy the DVD or Blueray either, or buy it on Netflix, unless it is included deleted materiale of a happier ending.
Just now I say to Disney: I am keeping my money.
@Ramblingrose

I saw it again last night and none of my opinions changed. I really tried to have an open mind, but it's a dumpster fire of a movie. Everything – character development, dialogue, meaningful plot – was sacrificed to bring Palpatine back. And Ben dying... it gutted me even more to watch it a second time. What's worse is that my husband thinks I'm being ridiculous since I'm so depressed and start crying at random times of the day when I think about it.
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Post by snufkin on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:21 pm

Ironically enough I just read The Brez's article about how Little Women is getting shunned by men for preview and award season industry screenings because the perception is "it's for girls" and that's the root of the f**king problem. The core elements of the ST that people responded to were because it's in the classic "Women's Film" genre with exploring character's internal lives. The point for somebody like Rey isn't going on a Hero's Journey to conquer something or discover her fate as the Chosen One, it's to figure out who she is (hence the Mirror Sequence) as part of the experience. She had agency/ownership over her own self and narrative, which is why it's especially f**ked up in how that got changed and appropriating Carrie's image/character (a woman who wrote her own story in the literal sense) is especially cruel. The backlash against TLJ in terms of hating on Leia Poppins, Rose, who is Rey's father/grandfather, the purple haired lady -- aside from criticisms in terms of how RJ executed it or if his particular style is something you don't enjoy/feel is out of tone with Star Wars. But the studio obviously had issues with the way the story was handled in that genre and seeing the backlash being driven by that, sought to course correct by changing it back to something that a male centered audience would be fine with.  So for the other reasons people are angry/in grief over how this was handled, especially for Ben, is the basic message is that girls can be empowered if they find a way to fit into the Boy's Club.

I guess I shouldn't think it's ironic that the Brez wrote about this phenomena for another movie seeing as how he's a Rey Legacy Child proponent, but the narrative is right there under your nose if you really were so tuned in to the women around you
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Post by Saracene on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:23 pm

I think that the whole Rey’s lineage stuff has been a debacle because it was so poorly set up in TFA to start with. If you just look at that movie from an in-story perspective, Rey’s arc in TFA is simply about coming to terms with the idea that her family will never be back and looking forward to the future instead. Which she achieves at the end of the film. She never once wonders about *who* her parents are and neither does anyone else in the movie. At the same time, the film totally encourages the *audience* to think about who Rey might be by withholding information and teasing the imagination with that flashback and the expectation is that the next films will address this.

TLJ then does address the question of Rey’s parentage; I know a lot of people love the Rey Nobody reveal but to me it results in cringy and awkward fourth wall-breaking dialogue because the movie is so obviously addressing the audience expectations rather engaging with something Rey as a character would care about. Absolutely nothing set up prior to the throne room suggests that having nobody parents would be a devastating reveal for Rey and something she would struggle with. It’s all about telling the audience, “see, heroes in SW don’t have to come from a special bloodline!”

But fine ok, Rey is a nobody, her backstory is finally explained, we can now all move on... nope! So Rey’s arc in the ST keeps going in circles, where at the end of each film she’s ready to move from the past and embrace the future, only for the next film to backtrack and return to her past again and again.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:36 pm

@bruna8728 wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:But Rey nobody was never going to fly with the GA ... I know it sounds like a good narrative to some but JJ mislead with the trailers for TFA..
TLJ damaged the brand.. TLJ's box office was frontloaded with good will from TFA and people were expecting answers.. and not just a few people who made theory crafting their living or hobby..

175 mil domestic is a disappointment no two ways around it.

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@spacebaby45678

I didn't know that GA was so unconfortable with Rey nobody, I was GA before TLJ and never imagined that Rey was related to a legacy character.



@Mila95 wrote:

The was nothing Rey being a Palpatine brought to her fight with Palpatine. It literally was a generic, basic hero villain dialogue, it was so embarrassing imo. There was no emotional investment there like you get with Luke and Vader because Rey doesn't care about Palpatine and he doesn't care about her at all. In the end it's as simple as killing him.
@Mila95

Yes, it was "Killing what you hate" (Rey killing Papatine) and "Not saving what you love" (Rey could not save Ben from death) - of course I know that Ben saved what he loved, but talking about Rey's POV, you know the protagonist POV.
@bruna8728

If you don't mind my asking.. you are GA where? The GA that spends money on the continental US are the GA that would have never been satisfied with that answer.. proofs in the pudding...

Toy sales down
Park attendence down
TLJ tanks after's second week.. and then sinks Solo..


Do you really think that JJ and Terrio would have changed Rey from being nobody to Palpatine if everything was hunky dory?

Oh I posted the opening week demos for TROS.. mostly men mostly over 25.. in fact 60%  of the overall audience domestically here in the US..

the "audience" who accepted rey nobody are in a minority...

Money talks and bull sith walks

Facts matter



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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:37 pm

@Saracene wrote:I think that the whole Rey’s lineage stuff has been a debacle because it was so poorly set up in TFA to start with. If you just look at that movie from an in-story perspective, Rey’s arc in TFA is simply about coming to terms with the idea that her family will never be back and looking forward to the future instead. Which she achieves at the end of the film. She never once wonders about *who* her parents are and neither does anyone else in the movie. At the same time, the film totally encourages the *audience* to think about who Rey might be by withholding information and teasing the imagination with that flashback and the expectation is that the next films will address this.

TLJ then does address the question of Rey’s parentage; I know a lot of people love the Rey Nobody reveal but to me it results in cringy and awkward fourth wall-breaking dialogue because the movie is so obviously addressing the audience expectations rather engaging with something Rey as a character would care about. Absolutely nothing set up prior to the throne room suggests that having nobody parents would be a devastating reveal for Rey and something she would struggle with. It’s all about telling the audience, “see, heroes in SW don’t have to come from a special bloodline!”

But fine ok, Rey is a nobody, her backstory is finally explained, we can now all move on... nope! So Rey’s arc in the ST keeps going in circles, where at the end of each film she’s ready to move from the past and embrace the future, only for the next film to backtrack and return to her past again and again.
@Saracene
As someone who feels Rey "Nobody" was the right choice in every way for this story and who totally understands why some find the reveal meta and awkward, I do completely agree with you that the problem started when TFA refused to define Rey's backstory. However, I think Rian still handled that unanswered thread the best way he could have: by answering it and attempting to close the book on that chapter of Rey's story so the character could move on. Of course, it would have been better off answered in the first film, but Rian's approach was a million times better than JJ retconning it in order to fuel his questionable and perplexing opinion that Emperor Palpatine needed to be the final villain of the saga.

Her arc is exactly the same in each film, except she deals with it in a different way. In TFA she has to move on from the fact that her parents abandoned her. In TLJ she has to move on from the fact that her parents were nobody and never cared about her. In TROS she has to confront the fact that she's suddenly "a Palpatine" and how that gives her force lightning (oh, and I guess her parents loved her all along). One of these things is way worse than the other two and only one of them shreds the trilogy beyond all repair because it directly contradicts the themes of the previous two films, which involve Rey being caught in perpetual childhood because she can't accept that her family didn't care about her. That thread is more interesting and internal than Rey suddenly having dark side powers and having to defeat Palpatine/her dark side in the most literal way possible: by killing the blood tie that gave her those things.

I actually really hate the reveal that Rey's parents loved her even though I would almost want to read a book about Palpatine's son and how he escaped his birthright long enough to have a daughter. I think it's one of the worst retcons in the story because it relieves Rey of her real struggle: accepting that she wasn't loved and moving on. It also complicates Rey taking the Skywalker name because suddenly we have these two people who probably should be remembered and honoured for loving her and proving that being a Palpatine doesn't make you evil, but nope.
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:42 pm

Rey can be a nobody.. she just can't be the protagonist of the Skywalker saga... that is it.. JJ is false advertising to make money instead of writing a straight forward honest story..

Because ultimately JJ does not trust the audience. His need to lie, obfuscate, and mystery box his way around a narrative reveal his own insecurities...

So we end up with Rey Skywalker anyway in the end..

Rian's did a terrible job with the reveal and it did not land with the majority of the audience and on top of that the whole fiasco that was TLJ has damaged the IPO

Iger knows it.. that is why TROS is trying to course correct


FACTS MATTER


#StarWarsTheRiseofSkywalker opens to $175.5M at domestic #boxoffice this wknd plus $198M intl for $373.5M global launch. Domestic debut drops 20% from #StarWars #TheLastJedi as it rolls into the holiday season ahead.




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Post by vinventure12 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:45 pm

Also, how does Ahsoka and Mace talk to Rey as spirits? I thought Qui gon unlocked the secret to immortality by learning how to keep ahold of his consciousness after he died. He only got halfway, so he can only manifest with his voice. But then Yoda and Obi-wan figured out how to be Force ghosts, followed by Anakin and Luke and I guess Leia (Still hate that she is a Jedi. Bleh). Were there other voices that I didn't hear that don't make sense? Or is it just Ahsoka and Mace? My husband argued that they figured it out on their own, but that cheapens Qui-gon being the one to unlock the secret.
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Post by Teo oswald on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:47 pm

Matt Martin confirms that the blaster that Ben Solo used in ACT 3 was most likely the blaster that Lando gave him when he was younger
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 Brm5detmh7641
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Post by bruna8728 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:51 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@bruna8728 wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:But Rey nobody was never going to fly with the GA ... I know it sounds like a good narrative to some but JJ mislead with the trailers for TFA..
TLJ damaged the brand.. TLJ's box office was frontloaded with good will from TFA and people were expecting answers.. and not just a few people who made theory crafting their living or hobby..

175 mil domestic is a disappointment no two ways around it.

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 6 DisneyStudios
@spacebaby45678

I didn't know that GA was so unconfortable with Rey nobody, I was GA before TLJ and never imagined that Rey was related to a legacy character.



@Mila95 wrote:

The was nothing Rey being a Palpatine brought to her fight with Palpatine. It literally was a generic, basic hero villain dialogue, it was so embarrassing imo. There was no emotional investment there like you get with Luke and Vader because Rey doesn't care about Palpatine and he doesn't care about her at all. In the end it's as simple as killing him.
@Mila95

Yes, it was "Killing what you hate" (Rey killing Papatine) and "Not saving what you love" (Rey could not save Ben from death) - of course I know that Ben saved what he loved, but talking about Rey's POV, you know the protagonist POV.
@bruna8728

If you don't mind my asking.. you are GA where? The GA that spends money on the continental US are the GA that would have never been satisfied with that answer.. proofs in the pudding...

Toy sales down
Park attendence down
TLJ tanks after's second week.. and then sinks Solo..


Do you really think that JJ and Terrio would have changed Rey from being nobody to Palpatine if everything was hunky dory?

Oh I posted the opening week demos for TROS.. mostly men mostly over 25.. in fact 60%  of the overall audience domestically here in the US..

the "audience" who accepted rey nobody are in a minority...

Money talks and bull sith walks

Facts matter

@spacebaby45678

I'm from Brazil that's probably why I never understood, in the end the money talks, is really a shame what happened

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:53 pm

@vinventure12 wrote:Also, how does Ahsoka and Mace talk to Rey as spirits? I thought Qui gon unlocked the secret to immortality by learning how to keep ahold of his consciousness after he died. He only got halfway, so he can only manifest with his voice. But then Yoda and Obi-wan figured out how to be Force ghosts, followed by Anakin and Luke and I guess Leia (Still hate that she is a Jedi. Bleh). Were there other voices that I didn't hear that don't make sense? Or is it just Ahsoka and Mace? My husband argued that they figured it out on their own, but that cheapens Qui-gon being the one to unlock the secret.
@vinventure12
There are a million plot holes and inconsistencies in this movie. Nothing makes sense and it steamrollers Anakin's status as the chosen one who brings balance to the Force, the loose narrative of the first six movies. Another example that has occurred to me is how much this movie invalidates Luke Skywalker's mistakes, the major focus of Luke's narrative in TLJ. He had turned off his Force powers and never felt Han's death, but somehow "always knew" that Rey was a Palpatine. This is just all levels of stupid. TROS speaks volumes about how much respect JJ has for other writers. He's an arrogant man.

Another crazy inconsistency: Rey can use Force lightning and when she does she obliterates a transport. When Palpatine uses his Dyad supercharged shock on the Resistance ships they just lose control and go wonky for a couple of seconds. Nothing in this movie is consistent and plot threads are introduced and dropped all the time. It's completely amateur and I still can't believe LucasFilm allowed it to be released like this. Well, I guess I would say that if I believed they cared. They knew it was bad - they just wanted to get it over with and move on from the Skywalkers.

Star Wars is not the mass sellable franchise I think Iger/Disney thought they were buying back in 2012. It's too old and means a lot to too many people. It's a cultural landmark with both feet squarely in American history - a true modern myth that impacted many during their childhoods. It's not easy to market it the way Marvel markets its fun, shallow films to both casual fans and its core fanbase. I do believe they began to realize that with both TLJ and Solo, and then they tried to rectify it with TROS but failed and gave up at the finish line. That's why the movie is such an amateur mess. The just didn't care and shrugged.
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Post by LadyHa on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 2:55 pm

I am amazed at how prescient this 2018 video was. (It was originally posted here in march 2018 by @guardienne. Didn't find a more recent post, but sorry if there is one.)

on Felicity: "And in the end, I guess the main idea is that events and relationships you experience will bring you back to where you started? Which is a weird conclusion for a story about a woman going on a journey of self discovery..."

on predicting how Star Wars might end based on JJ's other work
: "Rey returns home to Jakku, but now she knows some Jedi stuff and has some nice new friends in the Resistance? Kylo Ren reconciles with his father, but he can't because his father's dead and quits the First Order...."




Or, here's an abridged version on Twitter https://twitter.com/patrickhwillems/status/1208604915188293639


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Post by Saracene on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 3:20 pm

I guess I can also see the dilemma TLJ posed, because while it resolved the issue of Rey’s lineage and backstory it didn’t really set up a new challenge for Rey to grapple with outside of her secret connection with the Supreme Leader. Which is a potentially juicy scenario (what would the Resistance and her friends say if they found out??), but to make it work you need to work the tension between Rey’s commitment to her friends and the Resistance and her feelings for Kylo... and that’s too risky for Rey’s image. Heck they even neuter the whole Rey Palpatine scenario by making sure no one else finds out about it, so Rey never has to struggle with the potential fear and ostracism her lineage could invoke.
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Post by special_cases on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 3:32 pm

Ben was begging his Grandfather to talk to him and Palpatine was influencing him from the start. But Anakin and ghosts decided to help only Rey because I guess she is more worthy than a teen targeted by the most evil power ever. I have a headcanon that Anakin and ghosts helped Ben to rise from the pit in the same time they were helping Rey but who cares? It's not in the movie.
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Post by Kessel on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 3:50 pm

I finally saw the movie and I have a lot of mixed feelings, to put it lightly. I was always a Bendemptionist, first and foremost, so I’m hating his death with the force of ten thousand suns, even if I’m also happy he redeemed himself and he and Rey got a moment of true happiness together. Ben Solo’s return and the look of relief on their faces when they were finally able to express their true feelings for each other was amazing and I love that Rey was the one who initiated the kiss.

I’ll probably write more about my feelings after I see the movie again since I feel like I have whiplash from one viewing, it’s so fast paced. I don’t think I’ll ever be ok with Kylo/Ben’s death though. Since they went the redemption route and had the guts to fully acknowledge romantic Reylo, they could have had Ben leave after reviving Rey, promising to return to her when he felt “worthy,” or something like that, providing hope for them to reunite in the future as they’re meant to. That would address the loaded issue of Ben immediately going back to the Resistance and tptb could appease Reylo fans by giving hope and also fans who would be angry at Ben getting an immediate happily ending after just turning from the dark side.

Did anyone else get the impression Rey and Kylo may have been communicating/seeing each other through the bond between TLJ and TROS? I don’t know why, but I low key got that impression. I don’t think it was anything extensive, but it seemed like it may have happened.

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Post by vinventure12 on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 3:52 pm

@special_cases wrote:Ben was begging his Grandfather to talk to him and Palpatine was influencing him from the start. But Anakin and ghosts decided to help only Rey because I guess she is more worthy than a teen targeted by the most evil power ever. I have a headcanon that Anakin and ghosts helped Ben to rise from the pit in the same time they were helping Rey but who cares? It's not in the movie.
@special_cases

This. This is what's had for me to get over. Almost as difficult as Ben's death. It's like Ben was tossed aside and Rey was more worthy than him of his legacy. And the video above about JJ ending Rey's journey the same as Felicity, all coming back to the beginning is just horrible. I know the message of creating your own family isn't a bad one to have in media, but it does not fit in this saga. The saga is about THE SKYWALKER FAMILY. It has to stay within the family.
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Post by guardienne on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 3:54 pm

@LadyHa wrote:I am amazed at how prescient this 2018 video was. (It was originally posted here in march 2018 by @guardienne. Didn't find a more recent post, but sorry if there is one.)

on Felicity: "And in the end, I guess the main idea is that events and relationships you experience will bring you back to where you started? Which is a weird conclusion for a story about a woman going on a journey of self discovery..."

on predicting how Star Wars might end based on JJ's other work
: "Rey returns home to Jakku, but now she knows some Jedi stuff and has some nice new friends in the Resistance? Kylo Ren reconciles with his father, but he can't because his father's dead and quits the First Order...."




Or, here's an abridged version on Twitter https://twitter.com/patrickhwillems/status/1208604915188293639
@LadyHa

i haven't rewatched this in a while but i do recall patrick commenting on how abrams doesn't finish things. i do the same but i don't get paid a lot of money to work as a storyteller.

anyway, ha, thanks for digging it up.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 22 Dec 2019, 3:56 pm

@Saracene wrote:I guess I can also see the dilemma TLJ posed, because while it resolved the issue of Rey’s lineage and backstory it didn’t really set up a new challenge for Rey to grapple with outside of her secret connection with the Supreme Leader. Which is a potentially juicy scenario (what would the Resistance and her friends say if they found out??), but to make it work you need to work the tension between Rey’s commitment to her friends and the Resistance and her feelings for Kylo... and that’s too risky for Rey’s image. Heck they even neuter the whole Rey Palpatine scenario by making sure no one else finds out about it, so Rey never has to struggle with the potential fear and ostracism her lineage could invoke.
@Saracene
Unfortunately I think Rian didn't consider this a problem because he wouldn't have struggled with it as much as a writer. He didn't have any issue giving Rey's story a bit more bite by having her feel sympathy for and a connection with Kylo. I also think his Rey comes across as more vulnerable, but he absolutely went into TLJ with the purpose of having her actually develop emotionally, and that's something JJ just wouldn't allow. She concludes the story with her childlike hair and clothing on another desert. Rian "SW is a coming-of-age"/"Rey lets her hair down" Johnson never in a million years would have believed that this was the appropriate conclusion for the character, just as he would have done something more interesting than Kylo making a second sacrifice (even one that is thematically richer than Vader's because it's done through an act of connection and love and not violence).

This is not me pinning all my hopes/frustrations on the fact that Rian didn't get the chance to write this film, it's just how I feel from seeing his other films and listening to him discuss the characters and SW as a whole. I'm not even convinced Rian would have gone all-in on romantic Reylo in IX (probably, but maybe not). I am convinced his major incentive, however, would have been completing story arcs and encouraging real final progression in all the characters, not just finishing Ben's story with a sacrifice and rubbing his hands together like he accomplished something. Rian may even have gotten overly eager and doubled down on too much progression, haha.
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