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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by OrionStars on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 4:52 am

@special_cases wrote:@OrionStars Why do they believe a mod of SaltierThanCrait? Seriously, this place is full antiReylo and harassed Johnson in the past. Seriously? I saw that he said that he can't provide proof for his Reddit post. Will he provide proof for his chat discussion? They both were obsessed with denying leaks while everybody who has any tiny connections knew that these leaks are not made up. Why he suddenly has a source that HIGH that he can know Disney Evil Palpatine Plans to damage JJ's reputation because of WB?
@special_cases

I think they believe what they want to believe. Besides, a famous Reylo chose to side with him, so...
I still don't understand how could a Reylo befriend an anti-Reylo who runs an anti-Sequels Reddit sub. This is more magical and mysterious than how Palpy could get laid.

@Forsythia wrote:Disney making a terrible film on purpose to make JJ look bad is hard to believe. They bought Star Wars because they want to make money, why throw it away like that?
What I can believe is that the film was heavily butchered last minute by Disney and is not what JJ wanted. There's so much in this film that doesn't make sense and seems like maybe they cut a lot of the original story and edited together a lot of scenes in an attempt to make the story work halfway. It's clearly not what JJ originally visioned and why would he throw away his original film to make the messy version we got? I wouldn't be surprised if Disney stepped in last minute, decided they didn't like the direction JJ went and instead created this terrible mess to "fix" TROS. It would also explain, why all the actors seem so down now and indicated they won't do Disney+. Also suspicious that we have heard a lot of weak and dishonest defences from Terrio or the editor, but JJ remains quiet and hasn't explained or defended TROS. Then there's also Pablo suddenly going private on Twitter shortly before the TROS release, which is weird because after having endured all the TLJ hate for nearly two years, it seems weird he wouldn't be up for dealing with possible TROS hate. And I still find it strange that the entire plot of TROS leaked so early and that it was leaked again 10 days before the premiere by a burger king ad that got a lot of attention online. That doesn't look like a normal leak but more like someone tried to sabotage the movie before it was released.
I wish we had a reliable source that could tell us what really went on behind the scenes. And if TROS isn't JJ's version but Disney's, I wish we could get a director's cut of it, but it's very unlikely to be released.
@Forsythia

The problem is Disney already proved that they could make a good SW show that made everyone happy and didn't create controversy like ST, but the show was created and ran by Jon Favreau. They only credited KK as an executive producer because she's still the head of LFL, it's like James Wan credited Zach Snyder as an executive producer even though Zach didn't produce Aquaman
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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 4:59 am

@OrionStars wrote:
I think they believe what they want to believe. Besides, a famous Reylo chose to side with him, so...
I still don't understand how could a Reylo befriend an anti-Reylo who runs an anti-Sequels Reddit sub. This is more magical and mysterious than how Palpy could get laid.
@OrionStars

Some people are becoming obsessed with explanations and they're coming up with schemes/partnerships that don't really work. It's obvious there's a boatload of BTS drama in this movie, but befriending that dumbass from the anti-ST sub is not going to work at all to help you figure out the puzzle. It's only going to make things worse.
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 6:20 am

Just like the leaks were true EXCEPT for the romantic thread of Reylo (specifically the kiss scene and the motif of Rey wanting to take Ben's hand) this rings of some truth here and there EXCEPT for the idea that Reylo was not planned.

I've said many times that if you can detect an obvious bias from a source/leaker, their information is likely suspect. The reddit leaker was accurate except for his/her anti-Reylo slant which caused an omission of the most obvious variety (they were probably hoping the kiss would be removed in the edit or something). You guys already know this source's biases, so there you go; it speaks for itself.

There was something big going on behind the scenes that none of us currently understand the scope of. And the thing is, no one leaker is going to have the scope of it either. Everyone is going to have a piece. Right now they are sending out Terrio and the editors to be the scapegoats, but I'm sure that's only one piece of the puzzle. One thing is for sure: no one is really proud of this end result enough to go to bat for it, truly (Terrio is the only one who seems dumb enough to make a valiant attempt, lol). It's all very interesting.

ETA: The Oracle scene (which clearly existed, because Kylo obviously got this dyad information from somewhere that was obviously cut out in the edit) kind of disproves what this person is saying, no? It MUST have been part of the original plan, if it exists, which would suggest J.J.'s original idea (according to the source's own damn information) and no one else's. So... lol.

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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 6:33 am

Terrio is taking one for the team because the internet really doesn't trust him after his repeated fiascos at DC. He's the kind of guy that people automatically go "oh, of course he screwed up, he's a moron". Then he opens his mouth and only sprouts nonsense that no one buys. He becomes the face of the disaster in people's minds, even if he's not the only person responsible for it.

People don't trust JJ Abrams either, but he's not dumb to go there and defend the indefensible. He knows people are done with his lies (Khanberbatch) and his incompetence. He's also a powerful businessman and influent. So he sends off Terrio to get roasted because he's lower on the food chain.
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Post by special_cases on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 6:43 am

Don't you think that LF is actually doing way less press compared to how it was with TLJ? Johnson is generally very open to comments and interviews but they should have prepared anything anyway. Terrio did his interviews after first days of premiere, they were just published later. Ineresting if they react to Boyega's disaster somehow.
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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 6:48 am

@special_cases wrote:Don't you think that LF is actually doing way less press compared to how it was with TLJ? Johnson is generally very open to comments and interviews but they should have prepared anything anyway. Terrio did his interviews in first days of premiere, they were just published later. Ineresting if they react to Boyega's disaster somehow.
@special_cases

I think they all know the film sucks on many levels, and there's nothing they can say to make it better. US media is more forgiving (and even they are criticizing the film), but overseas no one is walking on eggshells to avoid hurting Disney's feefees. International media trashed the movie and the bad word of mouth is real. I have a lot of GA friends who don't even care about Star Wars, but they approached me to ask if the movie was really that bad because they've read it on the news (they know I'm a fan).

About the Boyega disaster: personally, I think they're not going to do anything. It was ugly, but at least now the fandom is too busy fighting and not calling them out or pointing their incompetence (see what happened when fans noticed the cheap editing of the final scene). It sucks for people who are getting so much abuse from dudebros and antis on Twitter, but Boyega is the one in the wrong in the situation. He's a famous, influential man, and he had all the power in the situation but choose to escalate it. Not only that, but he called fans "idiots" directly, and that's unprofessional and nasty. Even Vulture talked about it and how he looks like a fool for fighting with random fans on New Year's Eve.
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Post by unicorn on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 7:03 am

@special_cases

Right, they are all very quiet except CT´s "explanations" and Boyega´s verbal fallout.
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Post by OrionStars on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 7:05 am

@Piper Maru wrote:
@special_cases wrote:Don't you think that LF is actually doing way less press compared to how it was with TLJ? Johnson is generally very open to comments and interviews but they should have prepared anything anyway. Terrio did his interviews in first days of premiere, they were just published later. Ineresting if they react to Boyega's disaster somehow.
@special_cases

I think they all know the film sucks on many levels, and there's nothing they can say to make it better. US media is more forgiving (and even they are criticizing the film), but overseas no one is walking on eggshells to avoid hurting Disney's feefees. International media trashed the movie and the bad word of mouth is real. I have a lot of GA friends who don't even care about Star Wars, but they approached me to ask if the movie was really that bad because they've read it on the news (they know I'm a fan).

About the Boyega disaster: personally, I think they're not going to do anything. It was ugly, but at least now the fandom is too busy fighting and not calling them out or pointing their incompetence (see what happened when fans noticed the cheap editing of the final scene). It sucks for people who are getting so much abuse from dudebros and antis on Twitter, but Boyega is the one in the wrong in the situation. He's a famous, influential man, and he had all the power in the situation but choose to escalate it. Not only that, but he called fans "idiots" directly, and that's unprofessional and nasty. Even Vulture talked about it and how he looks like a fool for fighting with random fans on New Year's Eve.
@Piper Maru

The fact that he had time to talk sith and attacked fans on the internet then he claimed that he's a busy, successful man so he had to go to sleep early on New Year's eve, then a few hours later, in the morning, he said Daisy told him that she's supporting him to talk vulgarly about the most important role of her career while TROS is still in the theater Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 38 LaiDJPw
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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 7:34 am

@OrionStars

It was ridiculous. Twitter fandom is upset, but twitter fandom never learns the lesson and always falls for the bait. No one gives a f**** about shipping culture outside of stan twitter/tumblr. No one gives a f**** about "Reylo shippers". The truth of the matter is that a Star Wars actor with a huge following lost his marbles and started to trash the fans and low-key shade the film he was in. That's hilarious and that's what media outlets are reporting lol.
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Post by special_cases on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 7:49 am

@Piper Maru OMG I just read that Vulture article and it's absolutely hilarious!!! lol!

They got it really right.

A couple of hours later, still not done baiting the Reylo fans, Boyega tweeted out a photoset of Kylo and Rey fighting with the caption “Star Wars romance,” suggesting that their violent creepy relationship wasn’t worth defending. That, or he was just jealous that his character didn’t get the girl.
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Post by nickandnora on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:04 am

@Piper Maru wrote:@OrionStars

It was ridiculous. Twitter fandom is upset, but twitter fandom never learns the lesson and always falls for the bait. No one gives a f**** about shipping culture outside of stan twitter/tumblr. No one gives a f**** about "Reylo shippers". The truth of the matter is that a Star Wars actor with a huge following lost his marbles and started to trash the fans and low-key shade the film he was in. That's hilarious and that's what media outlets are reporting lol.
@Piper Maru

Highlighted and requoted for absolute accuracy. That's exactly what the GA/media is seeing. No one is talking about problematic/toxic whatever (if my cousin and husband are anyone to go by, as the two people in my RL who saw this story). No one even understands what the hell that even means in this context. The story is about the actor, not the relationship in the film, because that's the straightforward/juicy/gossipy story to understand here.

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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:16 am

@nickandnora wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:@OrionStars

It was ridiculous. Twitter fandom is upset, but twitter fandom never learns the lesson and always falls for the bait. No one gives a f**** about shipping culture outside of stan twitter/tumblr. No one gives a f**** about "Reylo shippers". The truth of the matter is that a Star Wars actor with a huge following lost his marbles and started to trash the fans and low-key shade the film he was in. That's hilarious and that's what media outlets are reporting lol.
@Piper Maru

Highlighted and requoted for absolute accuracy. That's exactly what the GA/media is seeing. No one is talking about problematic/toxic whatever (if my cousin and husband are anyone to go by, as the two people in my RL who saw this story). No one even understands what the hell that even means in this context. The story is about the actor, not the relationship in the film, because that's the straightforward/juicy/gossipy story to understand here.
@nickandnora

Oh yes. I went out for drinks yesterday and my GA friends laughed when I told them the story. "Not very smart to trash your fans and your franchise, heh?" was the response. They're also baffled by how some people take the entire concept of shipping so seriously, on both sides. They don't even want to understand all the problematic/toxic discourse because it's utterly ridiculous and pointless.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:48 am

JJ was adamant about FinnPoe but anti Reylo? Yeah, right Rolling Eyes What about continuity between movies? These characters all regressed and relationships that were established in TLJ were given different dynamics or dropped all together.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 8:54 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
@special_cases wrote:Don't you think that LF is actually doing way less press compared to how it was with TLJ? Johnson is generally very open to comments and interviews but they should have prepared anything anyway. Terrio did his interviews in first days of premiere, they were just published later. Ineresting if they react to Boyega's disaster somehow.
@special_cases

I think they all know the film sucks on many levels, and there's nothing they can say to make it better. US media is more forgiving (and even they are criticizing the film), but overseas no one is walking on eggshells to avoid hurting Disney's feefees. International media trashed the movie and the bad word of mouth is real. I have a lot of GA friends who don't even care about Star Wars, but they approached me to ask if the movie was really that bad because they've read it on the news (they know I'm a fan).

About the Boyega disaster: personally, I think they're not going to do anything. It was ugly, but at least now the fandom is too busy fighting and not calling them out or pointing their incompetence (see what happened when fans noticed the cheap editing of the final scene). It sucks for people who are getting so much abuse from dudebros and antis on Twitter, but Boyega is the one in the wrong in the situation. He's a famous, influential man, and he had all the power in the situation but choose to escalate it. Not only that, but he called fans "idiots" directly, and that's unprofessional and nasty. Even Vulture talked about it and how he looks like a fool for fighting with random fans on New Year's Eve.
@Piper Maru

The fact that he had time to talk sith and attacked fans on the internet then he claimed that he's a busy, successful man so he had to go to sleep early on New Year's eve, then a few hours later, in the morning, he said Daisy told him that she's supporting him to talk vulgarly about the most important role of her career while TROS is still in the theater Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 38 LaiDJPw
@OrionStars

Around then too was the Graham show - he was supposed to appear with Daisy, yet didn't because he was very sick. ? OK..sure...lol

I messaged What the Force for her to be careful/mindful of egobutthead's biases.  We may have to be on it on Twitter, and become the controversial Reylos, yet oh well. Sigh lol

Update - she replied and indicated the discussion is not happening - so she must have received enough head's up from enough people to be cautious about this, or her she knew enough about the source, to doubt him.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 10:44 am

Sorry I’m laughing very hard at the “famous Reylo” line because I’ve seen that poster every place trying to insert herself into situations and claiming that she’s an originator of things she’s at best a bystander. I too have a friend who mods a SW fandom subReddit & she’s only famous for self aggrandizing & trying to stir the pot.
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Post by californiagirl on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:44 am

JJ, who has never openly supported or even really baited Finnpoe, was pushing really hard for it? Sure. Though Oscar's reactions do still make me wonder about what went down there. JJ was against the Reylo kiss, despite TFA and the fact it was by this same person's report in the original shoot, not reshoots? They know there were earlier drafts their source hadn't seen, and that Lando ostensibly wasn't in them, what else might they know (or pretend to know)?

I'm not here to say JJ's blameless, because he's not. But too often people forget that filmmaking is collaborative. It's hard to point at one or two people for everything going wrong (except in rare cases like D&D, who had way too much control paired with their incompetence). TROS does practically bleed studio interference, and last minute interference at that. Terrio's other blockbusters, BVS in particular, also supposedly had much studio meddling. Is he just a magnet for these situations? But he's out there doing all these interviews and saying all these inane, bad things, even extending to the VD. At least JJ is smart enough to shut his face and even sort of joke about how it's bad, and (most) of the cast is smart enough to lay low. I do hope Babu Frik, who I love, and the rumored Oracle scene were his.

The supposedly longer cuts seem plausible, I was surprised how short the final runtime was, especially since it changed so close to release (movie ticket sites originally claimed it was 2h 35m). Whatever the original version looked like, it probably still wasn't good, but it might have been slightly less bad. Watch people do a whole "release the JJ cut" thing like they're still doing with Snyder's DC movies. It probably won't lead anywhere, but it will surely lead to years of fandom speculation. Look, we found a non-useful thing to fill in the 3 year gap until the next SW movie!

On that note, I have a hard time believing JJ wants control over DC or LF, or that Disney was trying to punish or blackmail the parties involved by making a bad movie on purpose(???) Conspiracy theories are flying indeed.
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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:52 am

A larger cut definitely exists, but people who are expecting for different plot points and character resolutions are going to be disappointed. I'm sure they kept their options open and had other scenarios, but the fact is that they released *this* product. The larger cut probably includes deleted scenes that are ultimately inconsequential for the story. They're already going full "release the JJ cut" on twitter and I'm just... no. The points/story decisions they had before the reshoots are irrelevant and probably locked in some Disney vault somewhere, considering no one ever leaked anything substantial about them (screenshots, for example).

I'm sure something bad happened behind the scenes, but it's hardly fault of just one person. And it's funny that the fandom is trying to paint JJ as the good guy. Everyone knows his track record and how he messed up not only his own franchises but other people's intellectual property.
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Post by vinventure12 on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 11:59 am

Wow. Everything certainly is escalating. I feel like I've been flung back to post-TFA with all the racist finger pointing and calling Reylo abuse apologist and blah blah blah. WTF? Reylo is canon. They kissed. They loved each other. There is no other interpretation to it. And saying JJ didn't want the kiss? LMAO. That's hard to believe, seeing how he kept pushing that Rey and Ren's relationship was the heart of the story and him saying from the beginning that he was a romantic and wanted to develop a romance for this ST.

Now, I see a lot of people pushing on social media for the directors cut or the real ending to be released. While everyones theories about the ending or what JJ intended to do with this movie are interesting, no one actually knows for sure if there is an alternate ending or what was going on behind the scenes. Unless I've missed something, in which someone please enlighten me! I'm just over here thinking, "Be careful what you wish for" because what if there is an alternate ending and it's worse? I know, hard to believe something being worse than what we got, but we all thought those leaks were out of the realm of possibility and the major plot points turned out to be true.

I almost just want to live with my headcanon that Ben is alive in WBW and Rey will bring him back because she is a woman who goes after what she wants and that is Ben Solo. An alternate ending that rips that headcanon apart will be hard to swallow... even though I'm sure in TROS novel, the author will make it so Ben is gone, gone, gone since she loves Rey ending. And Disney will probably push her to put the debate to rest by making it clear Ben is done.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 12:13 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:A larger cut definitely exists, but people who are expecting for different plot points and character resolutions are going to be disappointed. I'm sure they kept their options open and had other scenarios, but the fact is that they released *this* product. The larger cut probably includes deleted scenes that are ultimately inconsequential for the story. They're already going full "release the JJ cut" on twitter and I'm just... no. The points/story decisions they had before the reshoots are irrelevant and probably locked in some Disney vault somewhere, considering no one ever leaked anything substantial about them (screenshots, for example).

I'm sure something bad happened behind the scenes, but it's hardly fault of just one person. And it's funny that the fandom is trying to paint JJ as the good guy. Everyone knows his track record and how he messed up not only his own franchises but other people's intellectual property.
@Piper Maru

One of the reasons I am concerned about Wonder Woman. He now has that huge deal with WB, and rumors he may lead the DCEU. We now know he doesn't care about the female gaze or the heroine's journey, so I'm eek! I know Patty Jenkins will fight for her journey, so I hope this was a lesson for him. I hope he doesn't want to be known as the man who severed two heroine's journeys on the big screen. (Note, I think WW84 is safe from him, I'm referring to any other future movies)
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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 12:29 pm

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:A larger cut definitely exists, but people who are expecting for different plot points and character resolutions are going to be disappointed. I'm sure they kept their options open and had other scenarios, but the fact is that they released *this* product. The larger cut probably includes deleted scenes that are ultimately inconsequential for the story. They're already going full "release the JJ cut" on twitter and I'm just... no. The points/story decisions they had before the reshoots are irrelevant and probably locked in some Disney vault somewhere, considering no one ever leaked anything substantial about them (screenshots, for example).

I'm sure something bad happened behind the scenes, but it's hardly fault of just one person. And it's funny that the fandom is trying to paint JJ as the good guy. Everyone knows his track record and how he messed up not only his own franchises but other people's intellectual property.
@Piper Maru

One of the reasons I am concerned about Wonder Woman.  He now has that huge deal with WB, and rumors he may lead the DCEU.  We now know he doesn't care about the female gaze or the heroine's journey, so I'm eek!  I know Patty Jenkins will fight for her journey, so I hope this was a lesson for him.  I hope he doesn't want to be known as the man who severed two heroine's journeys on the big screen. (Note, I think WW84 is safe from him, I'm referring to any other future movies)
@SW_Heroine_Journey

I'm afraid JJ is incapable of learning lessons. I was there for the whole LOST situation and the Star Trek fiasco. It's been ten years of lies and incoherent storytelling, and look what happened to TRoS Laughing. I also hope the studio hires competent screenwriters to help, because what truly made TFA a decent film was Michael Arndt, Lawrence Kasdan and possibly Carrie Fisher. JJ all by himself or paired down with walking disasters like Terrio? Mess.
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Post by Birdwoman on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 12:31 pm

I have sung in several local opera companies, everything you see is intentional on stage. I have not done any film work but I assume it is the same. It is all the directors vision. So, I don't buy the JJ didn't know the Rey and Kylo dynamic was supposed to be romantic. He set it up in TFA!
I don't buy the Disney was out to destroy JJ. Why would you hire a guy to do a huge tent pole movie just to humiliate him? It makes zero sense...
My opinion, JJ and Chris made a bad movie. They sidelined and killed off the most interesting character in the sequel trilogy. They took their first female jedi and turned her into a nun.

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Post by Mila95 on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 12:50 pm

I can't believe people were really trending release the JJ cut lmao. I genuinely don't understand seeing a reddit post on a sub meant for hating on SW by someone who has no credibility when it comes to leaks and just taking it a face value to be true. And SW fandom does that constantly, sees a random post spreading misinformation and instantly believes it because they want to even when presented with evidence to the contrary. People are really buying that the guy who cast his friend as Zorri, the character that existed only to show Poe isn't gay, was fighting for for Finnpoe behind the scenes. Or that Disney is so afraid of JJ making DC successful that they deliberately sabotaged their own movie. And none of those scenes they describe is much better except maybe the Leia thing because it at least explains her death. But the idea of all the jedi force ghosts helping Rey against Palpatine by actually being there and fighting is embarrassing imo. Especially if they all looked as bad as blue force ghost Luke lol

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Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 38 Empty Re: Official TROS Spoilers discussion

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 1:12 pm

I remember back in the 80s, there were a rash of films where the heroine had to die so the hero could be a 'lone wolf' with a girl in every port, so to speak.

Now the are doing the same with the women characters.
It's so very tiresome.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 1:43 pm

@snufkin wrote:Sorry I’m laughing very hard at the “famous Reylo” line because I’ve seen that poster every place trying to insert herself into situations and claiming that she’s an originator of things she’s at best a bystander. I too have a friend who mods a SW fandom subReddit & she’s only famous for self aggrandizing & trying to stir the pot.
@snufkin

She's all over twitter defending him. It's so...ugh..as though she wants to be the Reylo that gets the scoop. It's odd.

I've also noticed that she always has to have the last word in discussing him, and she's debating with people who received s*** treatment from him. "Well, he's nothing but respectful to me." She's implying that she's the good Reylo. Maybe if everyone is as nice as she is. So bleh and gross.
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Post by californiagirl on Thu 02 Jan 2020, 2:13 pm

In my corner at least, people are really laughing it up at the rumors. I'm interested to see what deleted scenes LF includes on the home video release. Probably nothing of substance, but any new footage or info is bound to release the floodgates on theorizing again.
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