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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:49 pm

@vaderito wrote:well, BAFTA is going to be a big reunion for SW folk:

Adam, Laura, Rian are nominated

KK is receiving the award

Andy receiving the award

John is there to present something (maybe KK award?)

not sure if Daisy is there, someone tweeted her image under #BAFTA but not sure if new or old
@vaderito

If John presents the award to KK...that will be interesting considering on one hand, he's done with SW/DLF per his words/actions, yet if he does that...is he? Again, if he does - I hope he sees this as a positive because then he didn't burn bridges (which is a positive, good thing).
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 12:55 pm

Adam and Rian have come out of his the best.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 1:10 pm

lol BAFTAs are such non-event they don't even trend.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 1:35 pm

@vaderito wrote:lol BAFTAs are such non-event they don't even trend.
@vaderito

Nope. I've been keeping an eye on US Twitter Trends, and not a peep about it. Of course, same day as Super Bowl, anything is going to have a difficult/impossible task to break that.
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Post by KiraRen2015 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 1:41 pm

@vaderito wrote:lol BAFTAs are such non-event they don't even trend.
@vaderito

They might not trend or be as big as the oscars but they are still a very inportant event in the UK film industry and in general.

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 1:55 pm

I used to call them the Daftas because I never understood why they gave some truly awful films awards and ignored some that were great!😁
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Post by vaderito on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 2:10 pm

lol! lol! lol!

Laura won! She swept all major awards so she's definitely taking the Oscar.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 2:21 pm

Glad to hear that.
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Post by Saracene on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 2:28 pm

@californiagirl wrote:Yes, and the costume designer Michael Kaplan wanted a new outfit for Rey, but JJ said he just wanted a slightly updated version of her TFA outfit, with white and a hood as an homage to Leia. Which only has meaning on a meta level, like so much of TROS.
@californiagirl

I can’t believe they couldn’t even bother to create a new outfit for Rey for the final scene. There was obviously a time gap with her crafting her own lightsaber, but she still can’t get out of the same damn white outfit? Does she have a row of identical clothes hanging in her closet?

Remember when the costume was first unveiled and we were putting way more thought into Rey’s initial regression and coping mechanisms than the filmmakers obviously have? But to JJ, it was obviously about Rey’s perfect final form, so why mess with the perfection Rolling Eyes
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Post by californiagirl on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 2:31 pm

@Saracene Yeah, it's really a waste. Even Kylo got to ditch part of his outfit and have the good boy sweater. Jannah and Poe and Rose and especially Zorii all got good outfits, but Rey is stuck in eternal childhood.

Also at the BAFTAs are Naomi and Andy Serkis. It's like one giant SW veterans event. They do have a tendency to be a bit more populist than the Oscars, which can be either a good thing or a bad thing.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm

@californiagirl wrote:@Saracene Yeah, it's really a waste. Even Kylo got to ditch part of his outfit and have the good boy sweater. Jannah and Poe and Rose and especially Zorii all got good outfits, but Rey is stuck in eternal childhood.

Also at the BAFTAs are Naomi and Andy Serkis. It's like one giant SW veterans event. They do have a tendency to be a bit more populist than the Oscars, which can be either a good thing or a bad thing.
@californiagirl

I don't mind her white outfit and her hair in general. She looked more adult and more feminine in this costume. That J.J. didn't plan any costume change for the endingcene made no sense to me since it was so dirty and there was obviously a time gap. But the worst part of this scene is really the slide.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:23 pm

this is peak Rey. she's absolutely stunning here:

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 37 De783c733c0899bac819885883ab1545

how the hell you put her bakc in pigtails so to speak and give her her toy back?
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 3:45 pm

Because.....JJ and Terrio both obviously agreed with the old fashioned Jedi way. They were firmly shutting down for good Rian's notion of a new kind of Jedi, a more progressive kind.

A Jedi must not have any attachments. Or sex.

Rey, in order to be the perfect, worthy heir.....must forever be virginal.
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Post by snufkin on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:01 pm

The thing about that shot of Rey is that's one of the moments in TLJ where she's shown from Ben's gaze and versus the whole Slave Leia nonsense from the OT (which is why we get perfect pristine virginal good daughter Rey in TRoS as an overcorrection), she's beautiful but it's never at the expense of her dignity or agency.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:19 pm

@vaderito

Daisy and John are presenting the award to Kathleen
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:30 pm

Agree. That specific shot of her reflects how attractive Kylo certainly sees her.  In other scenes with this outfits (especially when he is not around), I find that she still looks more like a teenager than a female adult. She looks chubby (like Leia in ANH), the outfit hides the contours and she still has "childlike" face expressions at that point:
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 37 Tlj-re10
Maybe that a grey outfit would have been better for TROS but I love how feminine she appears in this, her hair look more sophisticated than in the previous movies, her face expression are more mature and she even displays some maternal side in a way she didn't before TROS.
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 37 Daisy-10
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But right after having a sexual experience (since a kiss is the equivalent of a sex scene in SW according to Kasdan), the first shot we see of her is running to BB8 with this childlike face expression, then that infamous slide on Tatooine with the same costume and that reunion with the "Holy" parental figures Rolling Eyes That looks so dissonant with all the rest.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm

It seems Pablo has been extracting the bodily fluids again.
https://xanadus-kira.tumblr.com/post/190612109284/heres-the-thing-not-a-single-person-in-the-reylo

So.......the end scene wasn't horrendous because they changed it at the last minute.
Ben's death was meant to be silly, and pointless.
Rey was meant to forget him, and his sacrifice five minutes later.
Luke and Leia were meant to forget he ever existed.
It was meant for the entire Skywalker/Solo bloodline to be completely wiped out.

I overestimated you guys, Pablo. The sith ending wasn't due to a last minute change of heart. It simply was always meant to be sith.
In short, your pointless fan**** of a film was supposed to have a silly, embarrassingly awful, depressing ending. It wasn't a mistake.

You guys really have made a c*** film.
Never mind. Thanks, actually, because now I don't have to waste any money on the blu ray and art book, or any other merchandise for this travesty that's destroyed the greatest space opera ever to promote a truly toxic form of femimism and a sick sibling relationship.
So long, and thanks for all the wasted potential.
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Post by Piper Maru on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:51 pm

Sorry to tell you Pablo, but your ending f****ing sucks ("The Reylos" aside) and not only that, it leaked in high detail on Reddit and was universally mocked there. Laughing

And conspiracy theories aside, it's pretty obvious that the first act changed the most, because it's where you have Body Double Ren (bonus points: Adam recording his lines in his home closet) and all that Resistance garbage that looks like it costed $10 to make.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:58 pm

I have to laugh. Pablo must know very well that this kind of tweet won't stay a secret. They really want to piss people off. That being said, it just proves even more how bad the editing was for the ending if they didn't change as much things as we think.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:59 pm

I honestly wonder if they realise how unlikeable they've made Rey now.
A man died for her. Five minutes later she's happily sliding down sand dunes and bragging that she's a Skywalker.
Rey took Ben's lightsabre, his mother's love, his name and finally his life. And is cool with it, because apparently she's more deserving.
What an unpleasant self righteous little madam she's turned out to be.
Daisy, distance yourself from this toxic creature!
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Post by special_cases on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 5:09 pm

I kind of get Pablo's point because some people are obsessed with an idea that they completely changed Ben's fate in post - which is absurd and these people refuse to listen to reason. Some of them have huge following, and some of them were the ones who were insulting everybody who was saying that leaks are true and also spread lies about Reyloismine. They totally need a call out for their lies and conspiracies but Pablo should have never said "Reylos". Seriously, nobody is saying "OT stans", "Poe fans", "FinnPoes", people love to generalise only us. A lot of us are also SW fans and were fans before Reylo existed.

Not to say that there was much popular conspiracy from AntiReylo on STC that JJ was bullied into changing the end and that he hated Reylo.
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Post by californiagirl on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 5:17 pm

It's unclear what the intention behind Ben's death was, in either concept or execution. Pablo isn't making it clearer with these comments. But he didn't like TROS at all either, and also loved TLJ, so.... what is he trying to say here? None of this is really that enlightening. He seems more like he's trying to piss people off for the sake of pissing people off. If they didn't care about the Solos, and didn't want anyone else to either, why make a movie about Han that immediately preceded TROS in the first place? If it's supposed to be silly, why have Kylo written and acted in such a serious manner? If Rey is to forget about him immediately, why have her kiss him, or even have any kind of non-antagonistic relationship with him across multiple movies? If JJ never wanted a romance, why was he talking about a love story from 2013 onwards? It's just not adding up.

And seriously, what's with the continued demonization of the Reylos? Do people actually believe this, and if so, why?
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Post by special_cases on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 5:38 pm

Pablo is saying there was never plan for happily after Reylo. It was always planned that Rey will become last Skywalker, getting inheritance of everything. He mentioned this in the Art of Making book. We suspected it for a long time. You can make not-blood related person a Skywalker as "an outcome of themes in the story", only if all Skywalkers are dead. Ben's fate was decided when Rey Pseudo Skywalker was decided and they didn't have intention to change it.
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Post by Piper Maru on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 5:48 pm

Yep. I guess what hurts is that now they all realized their choices were executed horribly. And it's not just "the Reylos" who are saying that, but they're sure are the most vocal ones. They're just the scapegoat because it's easier to blame a vulnerable part of the fanbase than LFL owning up to their own mistakes. It's never going to happen, I can't stress this enough. They will never say "heh I guess Rey Skywalker f****ing sucks after all". They're contractually obligated to praise their ilogical narrative and try to justify it so people can (maybe) spend more money on s*** books.

And I know the conspiracy theories are too much sometimes, but even the first act of the movie is horrible. It also doesn't change the fact that the ending, as it is, it's meme-worthy and not in a good way.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 6:10 pm

My understanding is that Reylo was the initial intention even if they wanted to make something bigger behind their dynamic but the political context heavily changed in a matter of 6 years. We live in a world where terrorist attacks have become a growing issue for public policies since 2015 and the populations are relying more and more to "conservative" governements, not to mention all these scandals around gender imbalance since 2017. It certainly didn't play in favor of the character while DLF was already walking on eggs with that dynamic since their first interactions in TFA. Whether we like it or not, Kylo was more or less meant to symbolize from the beginning these young males who get seduced by some fanatic ideology, are ready to kill innocent people for this  and display toxic masculinity that are perceived as "conservative".  I think that DLF kept his background underlying because they didn't want to get backlash by giving the impression that they were giving excuse to his actions. They also wanted to show that for all his valid reasons to feel angry, desperate et rejected, he was also responsible for his own actions and that his interactions with Rey are not all about the fairytale that we tend to picture in our mind. As much as Reylos were right about Ben being a "gentle, understanding & tall" gentleman, he still brought harm and committed crimes behind a self-centered, possessive & toxic persona. That's why, as much as he is my favorite character and I relate to his inner struggles, I don't share the POV of people who blame TROS Rey for losing patience with him, being agressive toward him and not listening him: he's the one in the first place who pushes her to the edge from the beginning of their interactions in TROS even if one can relate to the reasons why he is doing that. DLF could have chosen the easy road with an early redemption path but obviously his arc was set up until the beginning of the the third movie while the (geo)political context heavily changed and the character was under scrutiny. I am disappointed through that DLF did him dirty and sacrificed the coherency of the Skywalker arc just to push a certain agenda and send political messages.


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