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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 7:11 am

@vaderito, my read was that he said that most of the changes happened in the first third, "don't tell the Reylos", because a ton of Reylos do believe there was a changed ending. And to take him at his word, there must been a ton of stuff cut and moved around early around given how much stuff like Smurf Luke and Cut and Paste Rey were obviously late entries. I personally think that a lot of Kylo stuff was cut or messed with beyond the Oracle during the first half.

I agree that Ben alive on Achto would have been wonderful, And OMG, people like Beaumont ... all I think of when Isee him is the stupid phrase "Sith magic". Ugh.. Not just bad but ridiculous.
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Post by special_cases on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:22 am

Ironically the story in ST was damaged by FOLLOWING THE PLAN more than by not having solid plan which is the most popular explanation of this mess. Everything points out that Rey "Skywalker" was established story's goal since the beginning, since 2014. So they really should have remembered George Lucas who changed his story's goal when he saw other creative opportunities.

Aside my personal beef with Pablo, I sincerely believe that he respects Reylos - in a way you can respect any fans that annoy you on SM with their theories.
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:35 am

@special_cases wrote:Ironically the story in ST was damaged by FOLLOWING THE PLAN more than by not having solid plan which is the most popular explanation of this mess. Everything points out that Rey "Skywalker" was established story's goal since the beginning, since 2014. So they really should have remembered George Lucas who changed his story's goal when he saw other creative opportunities.
@special_cases

I agree. I fully believe Rey adopting the Skywalker name was one of their initial ideas because they're dead set on the "anyone can he a hero" theme from the get go, and in this case, "Skywalker" means "hero". The audience surrogate character (Rey) adopting the heroic/mythical name was probably their most cherished concept. It could've worked, but a lot of things got in the way and the execution was just sad. They should've taken a step back and think "is this really going to work?"
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Post by californiagirl on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:30 am

I also thought "anyone can be a hero" and "Rey is not defined by her past/lineage" was always a big goal, alongside Kylo's redemption. It was just the worst version of it. Like ticking off a checklist without making sure it makes even an emotional kind of sense. Because as it stands it's not hopeful, just off putting and confusing and unearned.
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Post by vaderito on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:45 am

@Piper Maru wrote:@reylo1992

For these awards, everything is scripted. From the jokes to the people presenting.
@Piper Maru

yep and nobody cares about speeches by people who aren't winners. So while they all got similarly scripted speeches about what should be done to improve this and that, only winner speeches such as Phoenix and Pitt got traction. Daisy and John were just some presenters and not even a witty ones like Rebel Wilson. I'm looking at BAFTA-related content and no one is talking about KK award or her award presenters because that's not relevant for upcoming Academy Awards. if you are not a contender for the oscar, but receive some lifetime award-type of a deal, you are not going to get headlines or even a footnote in the post-ceremony coverage.

Not to mention that everyone hates lifetime awards for they stall the announcement of relevant wins. bathroom break if there was ever one. lol!
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:59 am

@Piper Maru wrote:
@special_cases wrote:Ironically the story in ST was damaged by FOLLOWING THE PLAN more than by not having solid plan which is the most popular explanation of this mess. Everything points out that Rey "Skywalker" was established story's goal since the beginning, since 2014. So they really should have remembered George Lucas who changed his story's goal when he saw other creative opportunities.
@special_cases

I agree. I fully believe Rey adopting the Skywalker name was one of their initial ideas because they're dead set on the "anyone can he a hero" theme from the get go, and in this case, "Skywalker" means "hero". The audience surrogate character (Rey) adopting the heroic/mythical name was probably their most cherished concept. It could've worked, but a lot of things got in the way and the execution was just sad. They should've taken a step back and think "is this really going to work?"
@Piper Maru

Which is a view that I find problematic and that unfortunately drove that infamous ending scene. Sure, Skywalker means hero but what I found so interesting is how this name is attached to a legacy made both of darkness and light and that the OT characters obviously hadn't reconciled with.  Some people may have found totally out of character that Luke thought about killing his nephew but the most interesting thing is how this actions shows that even Luke wasn't actually reconciled with his Vader's legacy contrary to what he probably thought) and that Ben's fall reopened a deep wound in him. I wouldn't have had any problem with Rey taking the Skywalker name, whether Ben was meant to survive or not, because she deserves that name and to carry on that legacy beyond the fact of being romantically attached to the birth Skywalker. She could absolutely have become Rey Skywalker because she deserved that name due to the connection to the family and her family instead of just becoming Mrs. Solo. But the fact that the birth Skywalker had to die and be sidelined from the ending scene for her to embrace only  the light side of this legacy makes the initial message feel so wrong.


Last edited by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by vaderito on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:06 am

Anyone can be a hero! Even Palptine's granddaughter!

hey, it is a positive message.
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:10 am

@vaderito wrote:Anyone can be a hero! Even Palptine's granddaughter!

hey, it is a positive message.
@vaderito

Laughing Laughing Laughing

"We nailed it, guys! We're so original and smart." -- Someone at a LFL meeting at some point, probably.
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:37 am

@vaderito wrote:Anyone can be a hero! Even Palptine's granddaughter!

hey, it is a positive message.
@vaderito

Of course it is! At least, on the paper. IF well executed, it is a truly powerful message.

By the way, I don't really understand what people have against the idea of a descendant of the epitome of Evil proving himself/herself to be a good person and a hero, not even knowing where he/she comes from. The core message of this is intrinsically right: there are things that are more powerful than blood. That's what the Skywalker failed to understand with Ben and corrected with Rey. They also failed to understand that they were lucky to be hidden from Palpatine and not knowing where they came from. Had they been targeted by Palpatine from early age and been mistrusted because of their bloodline the way Ben was, it's likely that they would have ended up like him.  But if Luke & Leia could become heros not even knowing that this murder machine called Vader was their father, why should Rey just be seen just as a menace because of her ancestor? It's like in real life you would tell writer Jennifer Teege that just because her mother Monika Hertwig is the daughter of Nazi monster Amon Göth (featured in Schindler List), well she as his granddaughter is only destined to be a monster like him and be reduced to his bloody legacy. And if I hadn't told you that these three people share the same blood, would you have guessed it?
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:42 am

I think it was stated by many of us that we don't have a problem with the concept in itself, but with the execution as it was offered to us in the product.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

I think her NOT being revealed as a Palpatine could’ve improved that ending. I would rather see Rey Nobody take on the Skywalker name than Rey Palpatine, especially after all that “Don’t be afraid of who you are,” and “Pffft! You’re a Palpatine? No big deal. We all knew,” stuff. That took the WTFery of that ending to a whole ‘nother level to me.
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Post by vaderito on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:49 am

Rey Palaptine would have worked if it was a reveal from the get go and if she and Sheev had a relationship. I wished that was the case for he's super charming in PT before the transformation and it would be fun watching him try to be a grandpa while disapproving of that Young Skywalkah lad.
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:52 am

I was a huge Rey Palpatine stan back in the TFA/pre-TLJ days, and TRoS ruined that for me Laughing
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Post by rey09 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:34 pm

It feels that by the end of it, they regretted not making her Luke's daughter, but it was too late so they just created that s***storm somehow get to fakeskywalker. Like...if they wanted to do that, they had all the power to tell that story. They just didn't how to commit to anything from the beginning. Bizarre. Why even tell a story you don't even know what it's about. Unless well, it's just let's show cool s***.

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Post by vaderito on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:44 pm

Read pages with Damerrey kissing (2 of them). Holy Cringe City! CT, sweetie, Rey was looking for a daddy figure not a sugar daddy one! there's a difference, you know? lol!

if you want to see for yourself, peek behind the spoiler tags:

Spoiler:


Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 39 EP0v99ZXsAAs0yn?format=png&name=small

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 39 EP0xf_8X0AADl_H?format=png&name=small

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Post by SkyStar on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:51 pm

@vaderito wrote:Read pages with Damerrey kissing (2 of them). Holy Cringe City! CT, sweetie, Rey was looking for a daddy figure not a sugar daddy one! there's a difference, you know? lol!

if you want to see for yourself, peek behind the spoiler tags:

Spoiler:


Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 39 EP0v99ZXsAAs0yn?format=png&name=small

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 39 EP0xf_8X0AADl_H?format=png&name=small

@vaderito

Omfg what a cringe.
“He has never kissed a jedi” - LOL.
And of course the good old - someone is walking buy we kiss - what a overused trope.
And why is Chewie watching it???
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Post by Piper Maru on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:56 pm

Chewie is a voyeur Twisted Evil
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Post by vaderito on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:58 pm

It's hilarious to me that they always write uncle Poe in Damerrey as a nervous schoolboy. That meet cute in TFA novel was the same sith. It's always Poo is so starstruck while Rey is in control.

yeah, enemy walks buy, they kiss to hide their faces is really overused cringe. But, again, kudos to Damerreys, all 3 of them, for being right until CT got sithcanned.


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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:58 pm

Oh, yikes!!!!! My gag reflex silent
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Post by snufkin on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 3:46 pm

I know we've joked here about Trevorrow writing Poe with Chris Pratt's post Parks & Rec douchebag persona in mind, but he absolutely was headed in that direction. No wonder Daisy started crying after talking to him and Oscar is so salty as either version they were going to make sure that no homo was a plot point for Poe.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 5:43 pm

Is there a link to the entire script? Or is it just the few bits I’ve seen floating around?
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Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 6:14 pm

It would be hilarious if Daisy cried because of Damerrey Laughing And that Poe-Rey kiss is basically a non-consensual kiss. Far worse than the takes about Kylo’s interrogation. Where is your god now antis?

In the movie we did get, I do find it hilarious that Palpatine’s granddaughter got one over him by making out with his worst enemy - a Skywalker lol. The ultimate revenge.
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Post by Atenais on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 6:24 pm

OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 6:42 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:It would be hilarious if Daisy cried because of Damerrey Laughing And that Poe-Rey kiss is basically a non-consensual kiss. Far worse than the takes about Kylo’s interrogation. Where is your god now antis?

In the movie we did get, I do find it hilarious that Palpatine’s granddaughter got one over him by making out with his worst enemy - a Skywalker lol. The ultimate revenge.
@Kylo Rey

True. All of that.

Just realized that Rey was not only meant to kiss Poe without his consent but also use Jedi mind trick on him despite him sayong no. Looked like a very balanced relationship lol!

I wonder through what went through the writer's minds when they thought that having Ben die after being used to resurrect Palpatine grandfather and granddaughter would be "fun". I mean, if they thought that it's okay because  a Palpatine carrying on on the Skywalker name as a Jedi, it's a gigangic finger given to her granddad. But meanwhile, they probably didn't think enough about this: he didn't only want the Jedi to end, he also wanted the Skywalker bloodline to end after taking revenge of them

"Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you"

"As I once fell so falls the last Skywalker"

Wanted Padme dead => got Anakin to do it

Wanted Anakin dead => indirectly happened when Anakin sacrificed for his son  (meanwhile "somehow Palpatine returned")

Wanted Han dead     = > got Kylo to do it

Wanted Luke dead    => indirectly happened when Luke sacrificed for the Resistance while trying to reach Ben

Wanted Leia dead     => indirectly happened when Leia sacrificed to bring her son back

Wanted Ben dead     => sucked his Force energy, indirectly got him to give up the few he had left to sacrifice for his own granddaughter

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 39 Tzolzo11


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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 6:47 pm

@Atenais wrote:OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
@Atenais

That's why that ending scene with the Holy trio sidelining the Skywalker who have sinned will haunt me a good moment. They could have shown how Skywalker were reconciliated and healed by bringing alltogether both sides of the legacy. But no, showing reconciliation within the family - except for the Han/Ben scene - wasn't important, as if it wasn't the reason why the Skywalker story was meant to continue beyond ROTJ:
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