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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by Saracene on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 7:11 pm

If they wanted their Rey Skywalker ending early on and also didn't want to make Rey a blood Skywalker, then it was a bad call throwing in a Skywalker descendant that the OT trio cared about deeply. This instantly made Ben the emotional centre of the family drama; sure Han, Luke and Leia liked Rey but her interactions and relationships with them just don't carry anywhere near the same weight. Maybe they could have if they were the focus of the trilogy instead of Rey and Finn's friendship in TFA and Rey and Kylo's relationship in TLJ (which made Rey and Luke's relationship take a back seat in comparison).
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Post by OrionStars on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:28 pm

@Atenais wrote:OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
@Atenais

I think LFL only viewed Kylo as a tragic villain, not an important anti-hero/a part of the dual protagonists with Rey. Sure the nuance of Driver's acting turned Kylo into a complex character on the screen, but we can't deny the fact that LFL usually portrayed Kylo as a villain in SW supplemental stuff. We made a mistake by giving LFL too much credit, they weren't even capable of making appealing new protagonists that could entertain the audience in SW side films such as Ro1, Solo. I doubt they knew how to handle the "complicated anti-hero" Ben Solo that Adam portrayed on the screen, so they just kept ignoring Movie!Ben Solo and had continued to write sith about Comic!VillainBen of their headcanon for the past 4 years. Perhaps Rian and Driver were the only ones who really wanted to humanize Ben
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 12:09 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@Atenais wrote:OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
@Atenais

I think LFL only viewed Kylo as a tragic villain, not an important anti-hero/a part of the dual protagonists with Rey. Sure the nuance of Driver's acting turned Kylo into a complex character on the screen, but we can't deny the fact that LFL usually portrayed Kylo as a villain in SW supplemental stuff. We made a mistake by giving LFL too much credit, they weren't even capable of making appealing new protagonists that could entertain the audience in SW side films such as Ro1, Solo. I doubt they knew how to handle the "complicated anti-hero" Ben Solo that Adam portrayed on the screen, so they just kept ignoring Movie!Ben Solo and had continued to write sith about Comic!VillainBen of their headcanon for the past 4 years. Perhaps Rian and Driver were the only ones who really wanted to humanize Ben
@OrionStars

It was a perfect storm of LF not being an advocate for the character, and Disney not recognizing his capital worth.

I know it's popular to hate on Marvel in SW fandom (I side eye, lol, I love what I love, along with DC)..anyway, with Marvel..they're known for their fake deaths for a reason. lol Except for Pietro Maximoff thus far (who knows with WandaVision though), it's just known, they will or may come back (this applies to Tony and Natasha, too). I am sure one of the reasons KF has this/is open minded about it is, besides the nature of comics; he waits for the vote of the general audience too with box office (and valid audience scores). He does appreciate the Marvel fandom, but he knows the true $ is the GA. That is why he's an advocate for the characters. There isn't that sense with LF.

With Disney not recognizing capital worth - it's said that Walt Disney Animation wanted to kill Olaf in Frozen 2, and Bob Iger said no way because he recognized the capital worth. He (and the consumer division) might not have recognized Ben's capital worth to veto that decision from LF to allow Ben to die. Time will tell if there will be regret that his immense popularity wasn't noticed.
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Post by californiagirl on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 12:33 am

I still don't get how they went years without realizing Kylo's worth. If anything, they capitalized on it for parts of marketing. This is a giant corporation, their favorite thing is money, and Kylo/Ben is money. It ain't that hard.
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Post by reylo1992 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 2:00 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@Atenais wrote:OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
@Atenais

I think LFL only viewed Kylo as a tragic villain, not an important anti-hero/a part of the dual protagonists with Rey. Sure the nuance of Driver's acting turned Kylo into a complex character on the screen, but we can't deny the fact that LFL usually portrayed Kylo as a villain in SW supplemental stuff. We made a mistake by giving LFL too much credit, they weren't even capable of making appealing new protagonists that could entertain the audience in SW side films such as Ro1, Solo. I doubt they knew how to handle the "complicated anti-hero" Ben Solo that Adam portrayed on the screen, so they just kept ignoring Movie!Ben Solo and had continued to write sith about Comic!VillainBen of their headcanon for the past 4 years. Perhaps Rian and Driver were the only ones who really wanted to humanize Ben
@OrionStars

That's what makes the ST confusing and certainly part of the reasons why people have different views on the characters. On the one hand, they apparently give him a truly tragic backstory, which can only create sympathy, especially within the bigger context of the story en even more with the revelation that it was Palpatine behind it all along. On the other hand, we can't deny that the added materials also insist that he is very much a villain in such a way that people who read it can't ignore what he has done. The person I have discussed with on Twitter recently  is obviously a Damerey based on their interactions in the canon added materials and don't see the point of Reylo because he is portrayed as an "evil b****" in these materials. Based on the movies, I honestly don't see why she is a Damerey, except maybe for this introduction between Rey and Poe that had me pause when I saw it on the cinema. But once you put that interaction within the context of the movies , knowing that they didn't even really met until the end of TLJ and that it was a specific request from Trevorrow, Damerey doesn't make much sense for the ST. However, I do understand why people who give value to the canon added materials think Damerey could have become a thing or could become a thing in the future. It really depends what DLF has in mind for the future. Maybe that it was important for them to develop Rey and Kylo dynamic in the ST while setting up the idea in added materials that Rey could get someone else in her life in the future. If they intended to make their relationship Titanic-like with no perspective of bringing Ben back in real life, then maybe DLF will put  someone else in Rey's life until she is reunited with Ben in the aftermath instead of leaving her a old spinster. Seeing how out of all characters DLF is pushing Poe, made him this Han Solo-like figure and made him follow Leia's footsteps, we can't cast out the possibility that they may have something in mind in this area. That being said, it would never negate the fact that Rey metaphorically got married (and laid) with Ben during the throne room sequence even if DLF was too coward to make it more obvious. J.J. & Terrio can spread a lot of smoke about Rey's hood being just a tribute to Leia, Rey taking the Skywalker name just because of the twins, etc... it just doesn't negate all the clues they put throughout the movie:
https://twitter.com/BenSoloalive/status/1224537603812286466
https://twitter.com/wcrnettes/status/1218990977324589056
I would add to the analysis:
- The fleet as wedding crowd waiting for the bride's arrival
- Kylo & Rey's theme melting similar to Romeo & Juliet theme (associated with wedding)
- Palpatine: Long have I waited
- Sabers as wedding rings
- Passing the saber as wedding vow
- Rey's costume as wedding gown
- Parental figures giving their blessing
- Rey who? Rey Skywalker

Btw if y'all wanna have a good laugh about how ridiculous the outcome is, here you go  lol!
https://twitter.com/skyloreyn_/status/1223876626682916865
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Post by DeeBee on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 2:39 am

@reylo1992 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@Atenais wrote:OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
@Atenais

I think LFL only viewed Kylo as a tragic villain, not an important anti-hero/a part of the dual protagonists with Rey. Sure the nuance of Driver's acting turned Kylo into a complex character on the screen, but we can't deny the fact that LFL usually portrayed Kylo as a villain in SW supplemental stuff. We made a mistake by giving LFL too much credit, they weren't even capable of making appealing new protagonists that could entertain the audience in SW side films such as Ro1, Solo. I doubt they knew how to handle the "complicated anti-hero" Ben Solo that Adam portrayed on the screen, so they just kept ignoring Movie!Ben Solo and had continued to write sith about Comic!VillainBen of their headcanon for the past 4 years. Perhaps Rian and Driver were the only ones who really wanted to humanize Ben
@OrionStars

That's what makes the ST confusing and certainly part of the reasons why people have different views on the characters. On the one hand, they apparently give him a truly tragic backstory, which can only create sympathy, especially within the bigger context of the story en even more with the revelation that it was Palpatine behind it all along. On the other hand, we can't deny that the added materials also insist that he is very much a villain in such a way that people who read it can't ignore what he has done. The person I have discussed with on Twitter recently  is obviously a Damerey based on their interactions in the canon added materials of the added materials and don't see the point of Reylo because he is portrayed as an "evil b****" in these materials. Based on the movies, I honestly don't see why she is a Damerey, except maybe for this introduction between Rey and Poe that had me pause when I saw it on the cinema. But once you put that interaction within the context of the movies , knowing that they didn't even really met until the end of TLJ and that it was a specific request from Trevorrow, Damerey doesn't make much sense for the ST. However, I do understand why people who give value to the canon added materials think Damerey could have become a thing or could become a thing in the future. It really depends what DLF has in mind for the future. Maybe that it was important for them to develop Rey and Kylo dynamic in the ST while setting up the idea in added materials that Rey could get someone else in her life in the future. If they intended to make their relationship Titanic-like with no perspective of bringing Ben back in real life, then maybe DLF will put  someone else in Rey's life until she is reunited with Ben in the aftermath instead of leaving her a old spinster. Seeing how out of all characters DLF is pushing Poe, made him this Han Solo-like figure and made him follow Leia's footsteps, we can't cast out the possibility that they may have something in mind in this area. That being said, it would never negate the fact that Rey metaphorically got married (and laid) with Ben during the throne room sequence even if DLF was too coward to make it more obvious. J.J. & Terrio can spread a lot of smoke about Rey's hood being just a tribute to Leia, Rey taking the Skywalker name just because of the twins, etc... it just doesn't negate all the clues they put throughout the movie:
https://twitter.com/BenSoloalive/status/1224537603812286466
I would add to the analysis:
- The fleet as wedding crowd waiting for the bride's arrival
- Kylo & Rey's theme melting similar to Romeo & Juliet theme (associated with wedding)
- Palpatine: Long have I waited
- Sabers as wedding rings
- Passing the saber as wedding vow
- Rey's costume as wedding gown
- Parental figures giving their blessing
- Rey who? Rey Skywalker
https://twitter.com/wcrnettes/status/1218990977324589056
@reylo1992

Enjoying reading everyone’s thoughts!
I hope I can express myself well enough for this to make sense.... when discussing the inconsistent way Kylo/Ben was portrayed, and questioning whether he was tragic villain or anti hero/ co protagonist- my own view is that LF didn’t choose one or the other , they tried to portray him as both and/or either. Intentionally. Then the viewer could see what they wanted to see.
I think it is exactly what they were aiming for.
The trouble is, when you stand back and look at the big picture when you try to portray him as either/ both it just doesn’t make sense.. for viewers who are open to that conclusion it’s lousy storytelling... but for viewers who can’t accept that, they are motivated to pick an interpretation of his character and stick to it regardless of any evidence to the contrary.
My conclusion is: they didn’t want to tell a story and stick with it or own it. No, they told a few half stories and left the audience to fill in the gaps and filter out a story for themselves.
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Post by reylo1992 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 3:06 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:
@OrionStars wrote:
@Atenais wrote:OMG, this scene is so ridiculous, it's like reading a bad fanfic.

About TROS, actually, any plot/concept could work if they had put attention in the story they were telling. Everything in this movie looks bad, it was just a nostalgia fest. As I said before, even Kylo/Ben being alive wouldn't save the movie, the dialogue was horrendous and there's inconsistencies everywhere.

@SoloSideCousin wrote: It was a body double for a some masked Kylo scenes. I mean the fake masked Kylo had a slight beer belly. (...)
@SoloSideCousin

Really??? I believe it's time to see his masked scenes again. LOL

If Rey Skywalker was endgame since the beginning, I wish they didn't have created a complex and likeable character as Kylo. Even better if Rey was a Skywalker by blood, because I don't feel like the Skywalkers are a family old enough to have their surname meaning "hero". More, they aren't even ultimate heroes, since they had such unresolved connection with the Dark Side.
@Atenais

I think LFL only viewed Kylo as a tragic villain, not an important anti-hero/a part of the dual protagonists with Rey. Sure the nuance of Driver's acting turned Kylo into a complex character on the screen, but we can't deny the fact that LFL usually portrayed Kylo as a villain in SW supplemental stuff. We made a mistake by giving LFL too much credit, they weren't even capable of making appealing new protagonists that could entertain the audience in SW side films such as Ro1, Solo. I doubt they knew how to handle the "complicated anti-hero" Ben Solo that Adam portrayed on the screen, so they just kept ignoring Movie!Ben Solo and had continued to write sith about Comic!VillainBen of their headcanon for the past 4 years. Perhaps Rian and Driver were the only ones who really wanted to humanize Ben
@OrionStars

That's what makes the ST confusing and certainly part of the reasons why people have different views on the characters. On the one hand, they apparently give him a truly tragic backstory, which can only create sympathy, especially within the bigger context of the story en even more with the revelation that it was Palpatine behind it all along. On the other hand, we can't deny that the added materials also insist that he is very much a villain in such a way that people who read it can't ignore what he has done. The person I have discussed with on Twitter recently  is obviously a Damerey based on their interactions in the canon added materials of the added materials and don't see the point of Reylo because he is portrayed as an "evil b****" in these materials. Based on the movies, I honestly don't see why she is a Damerey, except maybe for this introduction between Rey and Poe that had me pause when I saw it on the cinema. But once you put that interaction within the context of the movies , knowing that they didn't even really met until the end of TLJ and that it was a specific request from Trevorrow, Damerey doesn't make much sense for the ST. However, I do understand why people who give value to the canon added materials think Damerey could have become a thing or could become a thing in the future. It really depends what DLF has in mind for the future. Maybe that it was important for them to develop Rey and Kylo dynamic in the ST while setting up the idea in added materials that Rey could get someone else in her life in the future. If they intended to make their relationship Titanic-like with no perspective of bringing Ben back in real life, then maybe DLF will put  someone else in Rey's life until she is reunited with Ben in the aftermath instead of leaving her a old spinster. Seeing how out of all characters DLF is pushing Poe, made him this Han Solo-like figure and made him follow Leia's footsteps, we can't cast out the possibility that they may have something in mind in this area. That being said, it would never negate the fact that Rey metaphorically got married (and laid) with Ben during the throne room sequence even if DLF was too coward to make it more obvious. J.J. & Terrio can spread a lot of smoke about Rey's hood being just a tribute to Leia, Rey taking the Skywalker name just because of the twins, etc... it just doesn't negate all the clues they put throughout the movie:
https://twitter.com/BenSoloalive/status/1224537603812286466
I would add to the analysis:
- The fleet as wedding crowd waiting for the bride's arrival
- Kylo & Rey's theme melting similar to Romeo & Juliet theme (associated with wedding)
- Palpatine: Long have I waited
- Sabers as wedding rings
- Passing the saber as wedding vow
- Rey's costume as wedding gown
- Parental figures giving their blessing
- Rey who? Rey Skywalker
https://twitter.com/wcrnettes/status/1218990977324589056
@reylo1992

Enjoying reading everyone’s thoughts!
I hope I can express myself well enough for this to make sense.... when discussing the inconsistent way Kylo/Ben was portrayed, and questioning whether he was tragic villain or anti hero/ co protagonist- my own view is that LF didn’t choose one or the other , they tried to portray him as both and/or either. Intentionally. Then the viewer could see what they wanted to see.
I think it is exactly what they were aiming for.
The trouble is, when you stand back and look at the big picture when you try to portray him as either/ both it just doesn’t make sense.. for viewers who are open to that conclusion it’s lousy storytelling... but for viewers who can’t accept that, they are motivated to pick an interpretation of his character and stick to it regardless of any evidence to the contrary.
My conclusion is: they didn’t want to tell a story and stick with it or own it. No, they told a few half stories and left the audience to fill in the gaps and filter out a story for themselves.
@DeeBee

Completely agree with you. That's what I suspect too in term of marketing strategy. Their goal was to bait all of us by giving everybody a little piece of cake while keeping us guessing where all of this would go ultimately. They create frustration by tending for each group a different carrot in order to give the false hope that they will get more, only to ruin their expectations in the movie while still keeping them guessing about what could be in future added materials. The advantage of introducing so many new character in the movies without going deep into their arc is that it gives basis for dozen and dozen of arcs in future added materials so that they can get more money from the fans. The way they played on frustrations with romantic ships was just so gross.  Pushing FinnRose but suddenly sidelining her in TROS as if the GA was supposed to know that she was already friendzoned in added materials, while introducing Jannah as potential love interest. Zorri asking Poe to come with her only to refuse being with him at the end. Pushing Reylo but killing Ben right after, while still having Finn running after "REEYYYY" and pushing Poe as potential future love interest. Even the message is dubious: as much as reality is far from a fairytale where you stick with one family and one lover, the movie made it look like everyone was interchangeable as lover and family without sticking to something clear. That's why I have bought very few added materials and not a single one after TLJ. As much TLJ deserves to be praised, I stand to my initial criticism that the middle movie deliberately avoided to provide answer to necessary questions, which left so many thing pending for the last episode. TROS pretty much confirmed my feelings that DLF never really wanted to answer them. We just have to see how Matt Martin answers to the questions of the fans to realize that it's their goal to open always more question without giving us answers so that they keep us baited. I was facepalming when he answered the question "where do you think Ben is?": "I would like to believe he is with his mother". Like, wasn't the movie supposed to answer the question?  And the answer to "what was Palpatine's plan?": Palpatine's is a donut in the donut". I mean, seriously? I made him know that DLF shouldn't count on me to give them more money  if they don't respect the fact that I buy a ticket, by deliberately leaving key plotholes in order to bring me to buy added materials. Let's hope that the commercial failure of TROS will make them aware that what keep people interested are feel-right storytelling, where key questions raised by the movies get coherent answers in the movies.
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Post by reylo1992 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 3:52 am

@californiagirl wrote:I still don't get how they went years without realizing Kylo's worth. If anything, they capitalized on it for parts of marketing. This is a giant corporation, their favorite thing is money, and Kylo/Ben is money. It ain't that hard.
@californiagirl

Not only it's a question of money since he became the favorite character but beyond that it's purely and simply a question of common sense given what that character represents in that particular story. The fact that they didn't realize it or ignore it to push a certain agenda shows that coherency of the story wasn't their priority. From the moment you make a character the only child of the Skywalker family in a trilogy sold as the sequel of the Skywalker saga, you can't expect people not to bond with that particular character, especially if you make him the victim of a tragedy that repeated itself and plagued his whole family. When I think about it, it makes the message of the trilogy pretty dubious. There is this idea that if you're not worthy enough - and even if you become worthy enough at some point - you are interchangeable and forgettable. If you"re not a good legacy character enough, well we can replace you with someone more worthy. If you"re not a good son enough, well your family can replace you with someone that fits better their expectations. If you don't like where you come from, well you can just erase your identity instead of embracing it as a whole. And if you lose your lover, well forget him: there are plenty more fish in the sea. And beyond that, the movie implies that romantic love & the perspective of having children is problematic because it only brings bad fortune., which is basically what the Twins and Ben's birth brought to their family and the Galaxy. All of that for the sake to make their female lead "instrumental to gender equality" by ending her arc alone in the desert. Nice!


Last edited by reylo1992 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Saracene on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 4:04 am

@reylo1992 wrote:Not only it's a question of money since he became the favorite character but beyond that it's purely and simply a question of common sense given what that character represents in that particular story. The fact that they didn't realize it or ignore it to push a certain agenda shows that coherency of the story wasn't their priority. From the moment you make a character the only child of the Skywalker family in a trilogy sold as the sequel of the Skywalker saga, you can't expect people not to bond with that particular character, especially if you make him the victim of a tragedy that repeated itself and plagued his whole family.
@reylo1992

I think they genuinely believed that Ben finding redemption was by itself an uplifting ending. They just failed to see that Ben wasn't Vader and that his death didn't mean what Vader's death meant in the OT.
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Post by reylo1992 on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 4:43 am

@Saracene wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:Not only it's a question of money since he became the favorite character but beyond that it's purely and simply a question of common sense given what that character represents in that particular story. The fact that they didn't realize it or ignore it to push a certain agenda shows that coherency of the story wasn't their priority. From the moment you make a character the only child of the Skywalker family in a trilogy sold as the sequel of the Skywalker saga, you can't expect people not to bond with that particular character, especially if you make him the victim of a tragedy that repeated itself and plagued his whole family.
@reylo1992

I think they genuinely believed that Ben finding redemption was by itself an uplifting ending. They just failed to see that Ben wasn't Vader and that his death didn't mean what Vader's death meant in the OT.
@Saracene

Agree but I would add that it's probably even worse than that. When I look back at JJ's comment that TROS was "supposed to tie 9 movies", I find his comment hypocritical in retrospect.  Basically, the PT don't exist in their version of SW. We get to see Cloud City and Endor after the final victory but screw Coruscant & Naboo. The family tragedy begun with the separation of the twin as the "original sin" as if  the fall of their father and the death of their mother wasn't the roots of that tragedy.  The Skywalker lightsaber originally belonged to Anakin aka the Chosen One but hey! Luke was the original hero so who cares about Anakin's tragic backstory and bringing him back as Force Ghost to have some significant role at some poin. Let's just have him tell some poor line to Rey in order to appease people who just care about coming back to the roots set up by TPM: what was supposed to be the Balance of the Force, what was Anakin chosen for and what oes it mean for the entire arc ? The story of Skywalker and Palpatine started on Naboo, where Anidala blossomed and where Padme wanted to give birth: screw! let's reunite the Twins in death on Tatooine where they were never supposed to be had the family tragedy never happened. Screw Schmi, Anakin, Padme & Ben as part of the Skywalker legacy because it all started with the Twins. You get my point: based on how they executed that story, it looks like in their mind the Skywalker arc is a 6 episode saga starting from ANH, with RO as introductory spin-off. Therefore, I am not so surprised any more that they went along with Ben = Vader vs. Rey = Skywalker and Reylo just as a better version of Anidala. Without taking into account that if Ben died saving Rey, does it mean that Anakin was meant to die anyway in order to save Padme?
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Post by vaderito on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 5:11 am

It's really simple. They decided to kill all descendants from Anakin. And he was descendant from Anakin. It isn't that they didn't recognize the worth for how could they not. It's simply that they made a decision that was non-negotiable no matter what.

The problem is really that characters they wanted to carry the Saga forward failed. That's why killing the best one is so jarring and ignited a passionate reaction. But if the trio succeeded in being as compelling as Kylo/Ben, which they didn't, people would be more accepting of the end of Skywalkers and need to move away from them. Mind you, I never thought that SW needed to move away from Skywalkers given that they wanted to branch out and make all kinds of movies, so some of them could have followed Skywalkers. But for whatever reason, they felt Skywalkers were a burden or held back the franchise or whatever, they decided to end them once and for all. And they expected their new characters would have the same value which they didn't. So miscalculation but such is life.

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Post by Piper Maru on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 5:43 am

They needed all the blood-related Skywalkers dead so their concept of "Spiritual Skywalker" and "Skywalker as Myth" could have gravitas, too bad it backfired.
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Post by vaderito on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 5:54 am

Too bad nobody told them forced, unearned sith always backfires and has no gravitas. lol! She's a spiritual successor not because she earned it but because they keeled over. Rolling Eyes


Also, they spent 3 movies unsuccessfully trying to turn Poe into a New Han and then even came up with that desperate and awful spice runner background (against their already established canon background they pushed in comics) which tells you that they really wanted the 3 heroes to be as popular as OT characters and seen as their successors. And it backfired.
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Post by OrionStars on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 5:57 am

@vaderito wrote:It's really simple. They decided to kill all descendants from Anakin. And he was descendant from Anakin. It isn't that they didn't recognize the worth for how could they not. It's simply that they made a decision that was non-negotiable no matter what.

The problem is really that characters they wanted to carry the Saga forward failed. That's why killing the best one is so jarring and ignited a passionate reaction. But if the trio succeeded in being as compelling as Kylo/Ben, which they didn't, people would be more accepting of the end of Skywalkers and need to move away from them. Mind you, I never thought that SW needed to move away from Skywalkers given that they wanted to branch out and make all kinds of movies, so some of them could have followed Skywalkers. But for whatever reason, they felt Skywalkers were a burden or held back the franchise or whatever, they decided to end them once and for all. And they expected their new characters would have the same value which they didn't. So miscalculation but such is life.

@vaderito

That's the case. Ironically, I've seen FM members talked about that topic and they also came to the same conclusion that to expand the galaxy, SW should move on from the Skywalkers, but the difference was FM wanted OT trio to be some type of Hogwarts teachers, for some of them the story of ST could be about "Luke's students, Luke/Han/Leia pass the torch to the new generation then they may die peacefully". But LFL destroyed the love that FM had for SW by hijacking all the accomplishment of Skywalker family then they gave it all to an imposter. To archive their goal, LFL even turned the legendary OT trio into a group of 'nepoticide smurf Luke, estranged smuggler dad Han and irresponsible mom Leia'. I wonder whether LFL realized that they strangled their franchise to dead. The young audience decided to skip SW because they found SW new protagonists boring and unenjoyable, while the old audience and loyal fans decided to abandon SW because they felt betrayed by being forced to see their faves were disrespected and were discarded. Now LFL have to start from scratch... again like Lucas in 1977


Last edited by OrionStars on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by vaderito on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 6:00 am

I have a perfect ending for TROS:

Palpy:"I am all the Sith!"

Rey: "And I am all the Jedi!"

Tony: "And I am Iron Man!" [snaps Rey and the Resistance out of existence]

The End

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Post by special_cases on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 6:12 am

HE'S NEVER KISSED A JEDI?

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 40 Tenor

What, Poe is a Kisses Collector in that script? Who thinks like that after kissing someone? Are there any other Jedi around whom Poe could have kissed?

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https://www.reyloskyforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=925
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