Exploring TROS & The Future of Star Wars...

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 4:31 am

Ben never lied to Rey, but Palpatine could easily have lied to Ben.

And another thing......

The FG of Luke and Leia, everything Luke told Rey.....
What if those weren't really Luke and Leia? What if they were Palpatine all along masquerading as Luke and Leia?
If he could pretend to be Vader speaking to Ben, then I'm sure he could pull off a faux Luke and Leia.
Ian himself said Palpatine was based on Satan, also known as the father of lies.....
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 4:48 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Ben never lied to Rey, but Palpatine could easily have lied to Ben.

And another thing......

The FG of Luke and Leia, everything Luke told Rey.....
What if those weren't really Luke and Leia? What if they were Palpatine all along masquerading as Luke and Leia?
If he could pretend to be Vader speaking to Ben, then I'm sure he could pull off a faux Luke and Leia.
Ian himself said Palpatine was based on Satan, also known as the father of lies.....
@motherofpearl1

Exactly. The whole Achto moment could be a hallucination. It's just the lightsaber. How could they retcon the lightsaber? I am all ears to any ideas.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 5:25 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Ben never lied to Rey, but Palpatine could easily have lied to Ben.

And another thing......

The FG of Luke and Leia, everything Luke told Rey.....
What if those weren't really Luke and Leia? What if they were Palpatine all along masquerading as Luke and Leia?
If he could pretend to be Vader speaking to Ben, then I'm sure he could pull off a faux Luke and Leia.
Ian himself said Palpatine was based on Satan, also known as the father of lies.....
@motherofpearl1

Exactly. The whole Achto moment could be a hallucination. It's just the lightsaber. How could they retcon the lightsaber? I am all ears to any ideas.
I take it you mean Leia's sabre?
Simple. Remember the blue lightsabre Ben used to defend himself against Luke?

It could be Ben's original lightsabre. It would make him hurling Kylo's sabre into the the sea even more poignant.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 6:58 am

The problem is that I think that the crossblade saber was made from the original Ben saber.
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 7:43 am

If they retconned the movie, it would be a disaster. What disappoints me the most about DLF is that they treated the issue of getting SW "free" from the Skywalkers only on the surface by killing their bloodline in an unsatisfying way. As much as I am not happy with their choices, I consider that the movies are the ultimate canon material. Of course, they brought back Maul in added-material but for a viewer like me  his story ended in TPM when he was cut in half and fell in a pit. Sure that it sucks that Palpatine never gets questioned for asserting that he is Rey's grandfather when you know how a big liar he is in general. But do you imagine if we finally learn in added-materials that "surprise surprise he was actually lying"? People don't pay tickets to have a movie retconned in added material just because fans campaigned for that. For me, TROS was supposed to be the end of that story: every key question/issue were supposed to be solved with this movie in a way that the Skywalker arc felt complete and that you don't feel the need to explore their future by retconning what the movie established. From what the movie shows us, Ben disappeared like previous Jedi, which heavily suggest he died and became one with the Force. I am just mad that DLF hadn't enough gut either to make him live or give a deifinitive confirmation of his death by showing his Force Ghost in the end. They couldn't ignore that not showing him as Force Ghost or put words on his fate would leave the door opened for speculation. Even showing that he was technically dead but still very much by Rey's side would have felt better and allowed everybody to close the arc in peace.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 7:50 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:The problem is that I think that the crossblade saber was made from the original Ben saber.

I actually liked the crossblades sabre.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:08 am

My idea of retconning would happen in another movie, not additional materials. JJ just retconned everything. A retconning of his stuff would return things to where all the larger canon actually made sense and the last Skywalker didn't die. I'd rather have whiplash than be permanently stuck with an ending that taints the entire series.
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Post by californiagirl on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 9:31 am

When the situation at hand is this bad, and in and of itself chucked most of SW under the bus, and it's affecting LF financially, it's almost not worth saving at this point. If anything, they would be trying to save the rest of SW instead of just this one movie. Not saying it will happen, but they've spent the past month and a half ignoring their own film that just came out. When people didn't like midichlorians, they mostly just ignored it too. This though would take much more extensive intervention.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 10:11 am

@reylo1992 wrote:If they retconned the movie, it would be a disaster. What disappoints me the most about DLF is that they treated the issue of getting SW "free" from the Skywalkers only on the surface by killing their bloodline in an unsatisfying way. As much as I am not happy with their choices, I consider that the movies are the ultimate canon material. Of course, they brought back Maul in added-material but for a viewer like me  his story ended in TPM when he was cut in half and fell in a pit. Sure that it sucks that Palpatine never gets questioned for asserting that he is Rey's grandfather when you know how a big liar he is in general. But do you imagine if we finally learn in added-materials that "surprise surprise he was actually lying"? People don't pay tickets to have a movie retconned in added material just because fans campaigned for that. For me, TROS was supposed to be the end of that story: every key question/issue were supposed to be solved with this movie in a way that the Skywalker arc felt complete and that you don't feel the need to explore their future by retconning what the movie established. From what the movie shows us, Ben disappeared like previous Jedi, which heavily suggest he died and became one with the Force. I am just mad that DLF hadn't enough gut either to make him live or give a deifinitive confirmation of his death by showing his Force Ghost in the end. They couldn't ignore that not showing him as Force Ghost or put words on his fate would leave the door opened for speculation. Even showing that he was technically dead but still very much by Rey's side would have felt better and allowed everybody to close the arc in peace.
Ki don't think anything could be more of a disaster than what they've already done!😁
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:If they retconned the movie, it would be a disaster. What disappoints me the most about DLF is that they treated the issue of getting SW "free" from the Skywalkers only on the surface by killing their bloodline in an unsatisfying way. As much as I am not happy with their choices, I consider that the movies are the ultimate canon material. Of course, they brought back Maul in added-material but for a viewer like me  his story ended in TPM when he was cut in half and fell in a pit. Sure that it sucks that Palpatine never gets questioned for asserting that he is Rey's grandfather when you know how a big liar he is in general. But do you imagine if we finally learn in added-materials that "surprise surprise he was actually lying"? People don't pay tickets to have a movie retconned in added material just because fans campaigned for that. For me, TROS was supposed to be the end of that story: every key question/issue were supposed to be solved with this movie in a way that the Skywalker arc felt complete and that you don't feel the need to explore their future by retconning what the movie established. From what the movie shows us, Ben disappeared like previous Jedi, which heavily suggest he died and became one with the Force. I am just mad that DLF hadn't enough gut either to make him live or give a deifinitive confirmation of his death by showing his Force Ghost in the end. They couldn't ignore that not showing him as Force Ghost or put words on his fate would leave the door opened for speculation. Even showing that he was technically dead but still very much by Rey's side would have felt better and allowed everybody to close the arc in peace.
Ki don't think anything could be more of a disaster than what they've already done!😁
@motherofpearl1

True bom They probably want us to guess what happened and test reactions to see whether or not it's worth exploring other options than death in the future but that makes me rather mad: if that's not their intention, then leaving the door opened for speculation is cynical toward Bendemptionists. If that's the intention, that's not respectuous of the GA viewer, which they apparently don't care about. The last time I saw Maul, it was cut in half in TPM. I had a WTF moment when DLF brought him back out of the blue in the Solo spin-off movie. Like, am I seriously supposed to know that the guy actually came back from death years ago in added materials DLF ?
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Post by Moonlight13 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:19 am

@californiagirl wrote:When the situation at hand is this bad, and in and of itself chucked most of SW under the bus, and it's affecting LF financially, it's almost not worth saving at this point. If anything, they would be trying to save the rest of SW instead of just this one movie. Not saying it will happen, but they've spent the past month and a half ignoring their own film that just came out. When people didn't like midichlorians, they mostly just ignored it too. This though would take much more extensive intervention.
@californiagirl
I think this is way worse than people not liking midichlorians, and they won't be able to ignore the final movie of the entire saga forever. The problem is that it's TRoS that's affecting the rest of SW, I've seen a lot of people saying they can't watch the other SW movies anymore, because TRoS gives them an entire different context. So, if there would be a way to make TRoS better, it would be good for the entire franchise, in my opinion.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:40 am

@Moonlight13 wrote:
@californiagirl wrote:When the situation at hand is this bad, and in and of itself chucked most of SW under the bus, and it's affecting LF financially, it's almost not worth saving at this point. If anything, they would be trying to save the rest of SW instead of just this one movie. Not saying it will happen, but they've spent the past month and a half ignoring their own film that just came out. When people didn't like midichlorians, they mostly just ignored it too. This though would take much more extensive intervention.
@californiagirl
I think this is way worse than people not liking midichlorians, and they won't be able to ignore the final movie of the entire saga forever. The problem is that it's TRoS that's affecting the rest of SW, I've seen a lot of people saying they can't watch the other SW movies anymore, because TRoS gives them an entire different context. So, if there would be a way to make TRoS better, it would be good for the entire franchise, in my opinion.

Exactly.
A lot of people hated the prequels, but they didn't taint the entire saga, unlike TROS. As a Han Solo fan I didn't want to see TFA, until I got curious why so many people were shipping Reylo!

I was moved, but not devastated, because unlike the fans, it didn't spoil the 'happy ending of the OT. Han, Luke and Leia lived years after ROTJ, and until Ben 'turned' they had good lives. And they left behind Ben, Anakin's grandson.

Every time I watched the other films I had a warm feeling inside knowing these characters had a descendant. I thought of how they'd live on through Ben and his children.
Now they've gone forever. And at this present moment I don't know if I'll be able to watch the other films again. And I'm not alone.
Although I'm repeating myself, if they wanted Princess Rey Skywalker, they should have made her Luke or Leia's child.
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:52 am

@Moonlight13 Yeah but if that ever happens, I hope it would be in some support materials that is intended for the GA - not only for the fans or even for a specific part of the fandom. Let's hope that one day Daisy and Adam will agree to reprise their role but it's rather unlikely in the current context. They already dedicated a big part of their careers to these roles. Adam is now a 36 years old actor which means that by the time any project will blossom, he will be near or in his forties so time jump will probably be required. Adam looks ambitiou: it's hard to imagine that a guy like him would be okay with playing that kind of role in space while he certainly aims higher now that he got so close to get the highest recognitions. And given how tough he is in the choice of his roles, he certainly wouldn't accept to be back without fixing high conditions for his return, especially after that fiasco. Last problem in the equation is whether Daisy would be okay to reprise her role because what's the point of bringing Ben back if it's not to bring back to Rey? After all, we don't really how Adam and Daisy get along in general and if their chemistry would work so well in another context. As long as they do their job well, they don't need to be friendly in real life but making a film together with mostly warm interactions is something else than mostly angry interactions. Maybe we will get nice BTS footages but I don't feel like these two are so confortable around each other in general. We shoudn't even have to think about this option in the first place. At that point, the only hope I have is that it's absolutely clear that Adam loves his character so much and that KK will know how to bring him back on board.
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Post by MaddieDove on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 12:48 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:@Moonlight13 Yeah but if that ever happens, I hope it would be in some support materials that is intended for the GA - not only for the fans or even for a specific part of the fandom. Let's hope that one day Daisy and Adam will agree to reprise their role but it's rather unlikely in the current context. They already dedicated a big part of their careers to these roles. Adam is now a 36 years old actor which means that by the time any project will blossom, he will be near or in his forties so time jump will probably be required. Adam looks ambitiou: it's hard to imagine that a guy like him would be okay with playing that kind of role in space while he certainly aims higher now that he got so close to get the highest recognitions. And given how tough he is in the choice of his roles, he certainly wouldn't accept to be back without fixing high conditions for his return, especially after that fiasco. Last problem in the equation is whether Daisy would be okay to reprise her role because what's the point of bringing Ben back if it's not to bring back to Rey? After all, we don't really how Adam and Daisy get along in general and if their chemistry would work so well in another context. As long as they do their job well, they don't need to be friendly in real life but making a film together with mostly warm interactions is something else than mostly angry interactions. Maybe we will get nice BTS footages but I don't feel like these two are so confortable around each other in general. We shoudn't even have to think about this option in the first place. At that point, the only hope I have is that it's absolutely clear that Adam loves his character so much and that KK will know how to bring him back on board.
@reylo1992

Do you think KK will stay so long at the helm of LF? I doubt.
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 12:53 pm

@MaddieDove wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:@Moonlight13 Yeah but if that ever happens, I hope it would be in some support materials that is intended for the GA - not only for the fans or even for a specific part of the fandom. Let's hope that one day Daisy and Adam will agree to reprise their role but it's rather unlikely in the current context. They already dedicated a big part of their careers to these roles. Adam is now a 36 years old actor which means that by the time any project will blossom, he will be near or in his forties so time jump will probably be required. Adam looks ambitiou: it's hard to imagine that a guy like him would be okay with playing that kind of role in space while he certainly aims higher now that he got so close to get the highest recognitions. And given how tough he is in the choice of his roles, he certainly wouldn't accept to be back without fixing high conditions for his return, especially after that fiasco. Last problem in the equation is whether Daisy would be okay to reprise her role because what's the point of bringing Ben back if it's not to bring back to Rey? After all, we don't really how Adam and Daisy get along in general and if their chemistry would work so well in another context. As long as they do their job well, they don't need to be friendly in real life but making a film together with mostly warm interactions is something else than mostly angry interactions. Maybe we will get nice BTS footages but I don't feel like these two are so confortable around each other in general. We shoudn't even have to think about this option in the first place. At that point, the only hope I have is that it's absolutely clear that Adam loves his character so much and that KK will know how to bring him back on board.
@reylo1992

Do you think KK will stay so long at the helm of LF? I doubt.
@MaddieDove

No idea tbh. But since she is the one who wanted Adam on board, I guess that if there is one person who would want him back, it would be her. But I am not getting my hope high on that one.
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Post by Moonlight13 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:18 pm

@reylo1992
I agree. I guess if it's in a book, TV show, etc., it would be better than nothing, but I think it should be in a movie so that it can reach the GA. I think they can convince them to return with the right conditions and I'm sure Adam and Daisy can do a good job, they are great actors in my opinion.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 1:42 pm

If only we could get Rian to direct.
It could be a self contained story, they don't have to do another trilogy.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 7:58 am

I think that the future of SW is going to be this:

they didn't put any plans in motion for potential direct continuation after TROS regardless of medium (movies, shows, comic books, books) beyond what was already approved as supplemental material (Kylo comic books, Poe&Zorii Adventures in Drug dealing book,etc). They waited to see whether TROS would re-build the fandom. It didn't. So I think that they'll release whatever ST era content was already published and then less and less.

they will ramp up anything involving Mando era and characters cause that's their hottest thing. So expect mando ancillary materials to get published in much greater amount than ST era.

they'll continue to mine OT because it always sells

they'll try to woo back old fans by giving them KOTOR or similar era movie(s) with lots of lightsabers

so all in all, I really don't think that any ST character dead or alive is their priority or even bottom of the list. They aren't on the To Do list at all. It's over. They know they screed up and will try to bounce back by making eevryone forget about it. Dragging characters into the spotlight only reminds everyone of disappointment.
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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 8:12 am

@vaderito wrote:
so all in all, I really don't think that any ST character dead or alive is their priority or even bottom of the list. They aren't on the To Do list at all. It's over. They know they screed up and will try to bounce back by making eevryone forget about it. Dragging characters into the spotlight only reminds everyone of disappointment.
@vaderito

Pretty much this. Out of sight, out of mind is going to be their motto going forward. I know the fandom is salty because they don't talk about Ben Solo, but if you take off the Reylo goggles, they're not addressing TROS at all. From Rey Skywalker™ to Babu Frik, they're not going to validate anything. Ben is a particularly sore subject, because it's obvious to everyone and their mothers that they f**** up very hard.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 8:31 am

I see they've opened a SW themed hotel, as well as Galaxy's Edge.

I think this kind of thing is what DLF are focusing on now, rather than the films. They've sacrificed the Skywalker saga to promote other mediums. Fine if you can afford the in all likelihood eye watering fees, but not much comfort for cinemagoers who expected the Skywalker saga to end, if not on a high, at least with a good film.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 8:54 am

@Piper Maru wrote:

Pretty much this. Out of sight, out of mind is going to be their motto going forward. I know the fandom is salty because they don't talk about Ben Solo, but if you take off the Reylo goggles, they're not addressing TROS at all. From Rey Skywalker™ to Babu Frik, they're not going to validate anything. Ben is a particularly sore subject, because it's obvious to everyone and their mothers that they f**** up very hard.
@Piper Maru

hear hear!  Claps

I get that it's hard for fans to accept that this is the case. but some actors wouldn't be so adamant about not coming back, to the point of sounding hostile, if they were told that there was a chance. Iger talking about possible Mando spin-offs drives the point in backhanded way. They are more than happy to address what's popular atm. They are mum about what isn't. That's why they hate on BenSolo hashtags. Not because it's Ben Solo but because it's a reminder that TROS is a screw up.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 9:02 am

I think they're trying to push Rey and the other members of the Trio. And it's backfiring.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 9:05 am

Not anymore. They aren't talking about anything TROS. It's true. JJ was MIA. Hubby only told investors that TROS made 1 billion and shifted the focus to D+ and Mando. Even Terrio and Maryann stopped talking.
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Post by special_cases on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 9:08 am

The only thing I'm looking for in the future of Star Wars is the opening of Lucas Narrative Art Museum. I saw that there will be some rare concept art of OT and PT and even art in my avatar was surprisingly featured. I can't wait for some new art of Padme. Interesting if something from ST will be featured because there are cinema exhibitions from film franchises that don't involve Lucas, from Battleship Potemkin to How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

https://lucasmuseum.org/collection
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Post by vaderito on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 9:14 am

if that comforts anyone, Kylo is the part of SW Disney Plus logo:



they went with all masked characters, maybe because Mando is masked, maybe because more effective (and less characters to include in such a short time), but he's there so I guess he means something.
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