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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by special_cases on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 4:55 am

I bet there will hidden Luke's kid in the next 5-10 years. Y'all know it will happen. If some Luke's fanboy will become a CEO of LFL or some OT boomer purist will become a CEO of Disney, then it's done deal.
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Post by Mila95 on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 4:58 am

I'll laugh so hard if they give Luke a secret kid and it's not far fetched at all tbh. First cause it would be such an admission that Rey Skywalker is a failure and second cause just the sheer desperation that would have lol

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Post by vaderito on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 7:18 am

yeah, I could totally see such a dumb scenario. Franchises are not concerned with continuity so whatever new management thinks is profitable will take precedence over continuity. Look at Rey Palpatine. if they made her great granddaughter than yes. But granddaughter? lol. So Palpy at 100 and Anakin at 23 had their kids at approximately the same time. I mean, if it computes for Rupert Murdoch, I guess it computes for Palpy but still...
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Post by fuhry on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:10 am

@Darth Snoopy wrote:@motherofpearl1
...

In regards to the almost lack of plot in TROS, in review they had many opportunities to up the stakes of their characters e.g. kylos almost non reaction to Palpatine stating he was every voice in his head - I would have had Ben have a freak out at that actually and coming off the coattails of TLJs '' let the past die'' have him misguidedly burn the FO to the ground as it was just an extension of Palpatines mechanisations. This would have been interesting as it meant him fighting the FO, but not necessarily turning to the light - a variation of vengeful motive that Finn had when Rose saves him in the TLJ. Rey being a Palpatine, we see a very lopsided reaction - to Finn, she says she's going to kill the Emperor (in revenge) , there's Dark Rey and we see her lashing out or giving back to Kylo her anger in her actions and the infamous stab and heal. But her being a Palpatine didn't have as many ramifications as it could have if it had been introduced earlier or differently. I also, have a personal pet idea of a scenario where the new republic could have had a severe hate of Palpatine and therefore feared his offspring (similar to Leia and Luke with the Vader reveal in Bloodline). And then perhaps they could have wanted to hunt down anyone seen as his possible heir from an official political or mercenary perspective. If Rey was created in the writers room  as knowing she was a hunted Palpatine - she could have been hiding out on Jakku, and it would have created a similar conflict in her wanting to belong somewhere but not being able to. Finn, is the character, that shouldn't have been pushed into comic relief or being so untouched by the strife of fellow troopers. He should have been visibly horrified when being put in a position of fighting other stormtroopers and actively addressed the brainwashing done by the FO. Rose - the handling of this character in TROS, is what I will never forgive ever. She didn't have to have a major arc or anything, but she was blatantly minimized. I've seen people argue that she had nothing to contribute to the story, but at least address the kiss from TLJ Suspect . I'm also not reducing her to Finns love interest or crutch, but in Star Wars, romance was always an important facet. A kiss in SW means more than it does in other films, Irvin Kershner explained that once, and I've subconsciously always perceived it that way.

@Darth Snoopy

I feel this so much.

I will say this though about Rose: I think they DID address the kiss in TROS. Don't you remember Finn's platonic shoulder slap as he walked by Rose? It was the visual way of saying "By the way, the FinnRose kiss meant nothing". But I think in a larger sense, in TROS, nothing MEANT anything. All this buildup, for fans, over years, and then it's quick reveal, move on.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:15 am

@vaderito wrote:yeah, I could totally see such a dumb scenario. Franchises are not concerned with continuity so whatever new management thinks is profitable will take precedence over continuity. Look at Rey Palpatine. if they made her great granddaughter than yes. But granddaughter? lol. So Palpy at 100 and Anakin at 23 had their kids at approximately the same time. I mean, if it computes for Rupert Murdoch, I guess it computes for Palpy but still...

I still have nightmares thinking of the conception of Rey's dad!😳

I honestly wouldn't put anything past them now, post TROS. After they retconned an entire film they're capable of anything. Ironically if anything deserved retconning it's TROS.
I've noticed that they've started to push Rey on Star Wars merchandise now such as SW Insider magazine, and film magazine specials covering last year's cinema releases. Where before it was either Rey or Kylo or both, now it's just Rey. They want us to forget the STs most fascinating character, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather forget Rey. I've never gone off a character as quickly as I did with Rey Palpwalker.

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Post by AhsokaTano on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:29 am

So I’ve been trying to reconcile how it’s one year between TLJ and TROS and it’s obvious to me by the force bond session between Rey and kylo that this isn’t the first time they’ve been in contact.... . A lot could have happened in that time in force bond sessions . It’s also obvious including from the Resistance Reborn novel that Rey was keeping things from the resistance and had feelings for Ben . Lucasfilm could throw anything at us . As was referenced here luke could even have a kid . Hell we could have even had a reconciliation between Rey and kylo and a break up in that year and that’s where TROS is that - the break up stage . Lucasfilm have made it clear that there are things we don’t know about characters ie in Leia novel
Leia has a boyfriend before Han , Jyn Erso sleeps with a guy in the imperial prison she’s at so just saying . We don’t know everything. Will be interesting to see what the novel expanded edition reveals .
Another thing wanted to mention was kylo would have been maskless in that year as he reforges the mask with Sith alchemy at the beginning of the film after he’s paid Palpatine a visit at Exegol ( is there more to the mask than we know as it disappears half way through the movie - does Ben’s spirit go to the mask at the end like a genie in a bottle or Lord Momin - is this how Rey will bring him back ?). The mask isn’t reforged before that which begs the question about this mask and why it’s reforged and what possibly it can do as it’s reforged with Sith magic.

A lot of online articles now believe Ben will somehow come back as there are so many ways he could :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/star-wars-franchise-bring-ben-solo-back/amp/

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Post by Darth Snoopy on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:34 am

@fuhry wrote:
@Darth Snoopy wrote:@motherofpearl1
...

In regards to the almost lack of plot in TROS, in review they had many opportunities to up the stakes of their characters e.g. kylos almost non reaction to Palpatine stating he was every voice in his head - I would have had Ben have a freak out at that actually and coming off the coattails of TLJs '' let the past die'' have him misguidedly burn the FO to the ground as it was just an extension of Palpatines mechanisations. This would have been interesting as it meant him fighting the FO, but not necessarily turning to the light - a variation of vengeful motive that Finn had when Rose saves him in the TLJ. Rey being a Palpatine, we see a very lopsided reaction - to Finn, she says she's going to kill the Emperor (in revenge) , there's Dark Rey and we see her lashing out or giving back to Kylo her anger in her actions and the infamous stab and heal. But her being a Palpatine didn't have as many ramifications as it could have if it had been introduced earlier or differently. I also, have a personal pet idea of a scenario where the new republic could have had a severe hate of Palpatine and therefore feared his offspring (similar to Leia and Luke with the Vader reveal in Bloodline). And then perhaps they could have wanted to hunt down anyone seen as his possible heir from an official political or mercenary perspective. If Rey was created in the writers room  as knowing she was a hunted Palpatine - she could have been hiding out on Jakku, and it would have created a similar conflict in her wanting to belong somewhere but not being able to. Finn, is the character, that shouldn't have been pushed into comic relief or being so untouched by the strife of fellow troopers. He should have been visibly horrified when being put in a position of fighting other stormtroopers and actively addressed the brainwashing done by the FO. Rose - the handling of this character in TROS, is what I will never forgive ever. She didn't have to have a major arc or anything, but she was blatantly minimized. I've seen people argue that she had nothing to contribute to the story, but at least address the kiss from TLJ Suspect . I'm also not reducing her to Finns love interest or crutch, but in Star Wars, romance was always an important facet. A kiss in SW means more than it does in other films, Irvin Kershner explained that once, and I've subconsciously always perceived it that way.

@Darth Snoopy

I feel this so much.

I will say this though about Rose: I think they DID address the kiss in TROS. Don't you remember Finn's platonic shoulder slap as he walked by Rose? It was the visual way of saying "By the way, the FinnRose kiss meant nothing". But I think in a larger sense, in TROS, nothing MEANT anything. All this buildup, for fans, over years, and then it's quick reveal, move on.
@fuhry

I think I must have forgotten about the shoulder slap, If this happened in the beginning or middle of the film, the break-neck pace must have meant it flew over my head. Makes the Rose situation worse for me though.
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Post by Mana on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:35 am

@OrionStars wrote:This is a big surprise from the new Vader comic. I don't know whether this female character was Padme or Padme clone or Padme doppelgänger. Let's hope that Vader didn't marry that new "Padme" and had other kids as replacements, lmao

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 3 YjlBUpa
@OrionStars

The most horrifying thing is that looking from a post TROS perspective, the above doesn’t seem far fetched at all....


Last edited by Mana on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Darth Snoopy on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 9:42 am

@AhsokaTano wrote:So I’ve been trying to reconcile how it’s one year between TLJ and TROS and it’s obvious to me by the force bond session between Rey and kylo that this isn’t the first time they’ve been in contact.... . A lot could have happened in that time in force bond sessions . It’s also obvious including from the Resistance Reborn novel that Rey was keeping things from the resistance and had feelings for Ben . Lucasfilm could throw anything at us . As was referenced here luke could even have a kid . Hell we could have even had a reconciliation between Rey and kylo and a break up in that year and that’s where TROS is that - the break up stage . Lucasfilm have made it clear that there are things we don’t know about characters ie in Leia novel
Leia has a boyfriend before Han , Jyn Erso sleeps with a guy in the imperial prison she’s at so just saying . We don’t know everything. Will be interesting to see what the novel expanded edition reveals .
Another thing wanted to mention was kylo would have been maskless in that year as he reforges the mask with Sith alchemy at the beginning of the film after he’s paid Palpatine a visit at Exegol ( is there more to the mask than we know as it disappears half way through the movie - does Ben’s spirit go to the mask at the end like a genie in a bottle or Lord Momin - is this how Rey will bring him back ?). The mask isn’t reforged before that which begs the question about this mask and why it’s reforged and what possibly it can do as it’s reforged with Sith magic.

A lot of online articles now believe Ben will somehow come back as there are so many ways he could :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/star-wars-franchise-bring-ben-solo-back/amp/

@AhsokaTano

Yeah, it seemed as if they had spoken before. So theres question marks over that time gap, for sure. As for the topic of any surprise Skywalkers (e.g. Luke's kid or Reylo kid) could happen, if the powers that be will it so, but I might cringe so hard it'll break my face - if it's handled in a manner resembling the plot and retcons of TROS.
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Post by californiagirl on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:26 am

People were commenting very excitedly but also very vaguely about the Vader comic that relaunched yesterday, and I had no idea what was going on. Surprised the Reylos are all so happy by a Vader comic, though I know Soule's run from a couple years ago is supposed to be quite good (Vader being perpetually sad and obsessed with dying and/or bringing Padme back from the dead). Look at Vader and Kylo both getting nice things at the same time. When the comics, new ride, and TV shows are all vastly superior to the actual movie, lol. The movie was supposed to be the most important thing they couldn't afford to mess up on, but oh well.

I hope they don't do the secret kid thing, or so-and-so is actually related to so-and-so. That can work if set up well, forming the crux of the given story, I read lots of things like that. But in this case, the foundation isn't there. It would really feel like a reversion to Legends, which was made non-canon Legends in the first place to get rid of nonsense like that. There are people at LF who actually care about things like this, but they are not the ones with the final say, if those above them want otherwise, as we see with TROS. But given the underperformance and mixed to poor reception to TROS, and the fact the discussion around it dwindled very quickly, I hope they take the hint and realize this direction is not to their own benefit.

Also there's a whole Jedi Leia discourse going on, which really is just another cheap move so Rey's skills can be justified while also ignoring canon and the fact it makes Leia seem like a terrible parent who wouldn't train her child and foisted him on her weird brother.
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Post by Atenais on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:50 pm

@Darth Snoopy wrote:
@AhsokaTano wrote:So I’ve been trying to reconcile how it’s one year between TLJ and TROS and it’s obvious to me by the force bond session between Rey and kylo that this isn’t the first time they’ve been in contact.... . A lot could have happened in that time in force bond sessions . It’s also obvious including from the Resistance Reborn novel that Rey was keeping things from the resistance and had feelings for Ben . Lucasfilm could throw anything at us . As was referenced here luke could even have a kid . Hell we could have even had a reconciliation between Rey and kylo and a break up in that year and that’s where TROS is that - the break up stage . Lucasfilm have made it clear that there are things we don’t know about characters ie in Leia novel
Leia has a boyfriend before Han , Jyn Erso sleeps with a guy in the imperial prison she’s at so just saying . We don’t know everything. Will be interesting to see what the novel expanded edition reveals .
Another thing wanted to mention was kylo would have been maskless in that year as he reforges the mask with Sith alchemy at the beginning of the film after he’s paid Palpatine a visit at Exegol ( is there more to the mask than we know as it disappears half way through the movie - does Ben’s spirit go to the mask at the end like a genie in a bottle or Lord Momin - is this how Rey will bring him back ?). The mask isn’t reforged before that which begs the question about this mask and why it’s reforged and what possibly it can do as it’s reforged with Sith magic.

A lot of online articles now believe Ben will somehow come back as there are so many ways he could :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/star-wars-franchise-bring-ben-solo-back/amp/

@AhsokaTano

Yeah, it seemed as if they had spoken before. So theres question marks over that time gap, for sure. As for the topic of any surprise Skywalkers (e.g. Luke's kid or Reylo kid) could happen, if the powers that be will it so, but I might cringe so hard it'll break my face - if it's handled in a manner resembling the plot and retcons of TROS.
@Darth Snoopy

@Darth Snoopy wrote:
@AhsokaTano wrote:So I’ve been trying to reconcile how it’s one year between TLJ and TROS and it’s obvious to me by the force bond session between Rey and kylo that this isn’t the first time they’ve been in contact.... . A lot could have happened in that time in force bond sessions . It’s also obvious including from the Resistance Reborn novel that Rey was keeping things from the resistance and had feelings for Ben . Lucasfilm could throw anything at us . As was referenced here luke could even have a kid . Hell we could have even had a reconciliation between Rey and kylo and a break up in that year and that’s where TROS is that - the break up stage . Lucasfilm have made it clear that there are things we don’t know about characters ie in Leia novel
Leia has a boyfriend before Han , Jyn Erso sleeps with a guy in the imperial prison she’s at so just saying . We don’t know everything. Will be interesting to see what the novel expanded edition reveals .
Another thing wanted to mention was kylo would have been maskless in that year as he reforges the mask with Sith alchemy at the beginning of the film after he’s paid Palpatine a visit at Exegol ( is there more to the mask than we know as it disappears half way through the movie - does Ben’s spirit go to the mask at the end like a genie in a bottle or Lord Momin - is this how Rey will bring him back ?). The mask isn’t reforged before that which begs the question about this mask and why it’s reforged and what possibly it can do as it’s reforged with Sith magic.

A lot of online articles now believe Ben will somehow come back as there are so many ways he could :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/star-wars-franchise-bring-ben-solo-back/amp/

@AhsokaTano

Yeah, it seemed as if they had spoken before. So theres question marks over that time gap, for sure. As for the topic of any surprise Skywalkers (e.g. Luke's kid or Reylo kid) could happen, if the powers that be will it so, but I might cringe so hard it'll break my face - if it's handled in a manner resembling the plot and retcons of TROS.
@Darth Snoopy

I admire you, guys, for being able to analyze the events in the movie. Everything looked so out of place, we had one year between the movies, but we saw Kylo reforging his mask in the movie, so, why did he find necessary to have his mask back after one year? There's no reason, but to sell toys. The answers for the questions of this movie are off screen. Lets assume that they kept talking this whole time, looks like they didn't talk about anything important, because their dialogue was pretty weird, forced even. Not to tell that the movie retconned events from the past. How can I trust in their story this way? I can't and don't bother to care anymore.
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Post by Saracene on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 2:31 pm

@californiagirl wrote:Also there's a whole Jedi Leia discourse going on, which really is just another cheap move so Rey's skills can be justified while also ignoring canon and the fact it makes Leia seem like a terrible parent who wouldn't train her child and foisted him on her weird brother.
@californiagirl

It also throws Rey’s coming-of-age story out of whack. For better or for worse, TLJ ended with both Rey and Kylo moving past their mentor figures so that they can stand on their own in the last chapter. But then Rey... just gets another teacher and has an almost completely off-screen relationship with her mentor that we don’t get to see?
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 4:31 pm

A lot of things happened off screen, including the reasons for Palpatine's return.
No excuse I'm afraid, just lazy story telling.

There's a lot of praise on YouTube, for TROS. Ugh.
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Post by special_cases on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 6:15 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@californiagirl wrote:Also there's a whole Jedi Leia discourse going on, which really is just another cheap move so Rey's skills can be justified while also ignoring canon and the fact it makes Leia seem like a terrible parent who wouldn't train her child and foisted him on her weird brother.
@californiagirl

It also throws Rey’s coming-of-age story out of whack. For better or for worse, TLJ ended with both Rey and Kylo moving past their mentor figures so that they can stand on their own in the last chapter. But then Rey... just gets another teacher and has an almost completely off-screen relationship with her mentor that we don’t get to see?
@Saracene

The most bizarre thing is that it's possible to accept on narrative and character development level that yes, Rey and Kylo returned to I-need-a-mentor mindset but when there is ZERO personal or impactful mentorship from both Leia and Palpy, and all scenes look literally unnatural for obvious reasons... The movie just doesn't even try to make anything work: on visual level, on storytelling level, on chemistry level, on idea level. It takes boring and weak idea, makes it look even more boring and weak, and execute it with the most boring and weak outcome. No for journey and no for destination. It applies even to Reylo stuff in TROS, some Rey and Kylo scenes are enjoyable only because of actors' work and chemistry. (The same goes for Poe, who was kind of enjoyable on the screen)
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Post by KiraRen2015 on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 6:26 pm

@motherofpearl1 I'm surprised at that. I've seen the complete opposite on YouTube and a couple of revaluting TLJ ones.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 8:11 pm

This is an excellent summary of where the disappointment lies, at least from the discussions I've had with several long-time forum members from here. The writing in TRoS points doesn't just contradict or make the overall ST plot/character arcs (and the entire Saga by the ripple effect) convoluted or confusing beyond the scope of "we're going to pretend that Leia never kissed her twin brother," it completely unravels a lot of details that LFL touted as being hallmarks of its new era. Primarily a focus on good quality writing that was consistent and told a story about the individual characters, both the OT characters later in life, as well as the new/younger characters.

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Contradicted Its Own Setup

This is the problem with conducting a course-correction on the scale of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. When you rewrite the story to such a dramatic extent so late in the game, you risk contradicting everything that's gone before. In this case, the scale of the problem is quite remarkable; it's one thing to contradict tie-ins from four years ago, another to fail to match with the books being written at the very same time you're shooting your film.

But as it's been pointed out, TRoS doesn't just ignore or hand wave away significant developments from TLJ, it also does it to TFA. It certainly isn't interested in what was some of the most interesting ideas/themes which were explored across the previous films, including Rogue One and Solo, about the less famous and powerful characters, like Rey (Michael Arndt said in the 2015 WGA writer's talk that she was the central character in the Saga the furthest down the social ladder who had the farthest distance to travel, which TRoS changes), Rose, Enfys Nest, Bodhi, Cassian, Chirrut, and Baze, and even Qi'ra given her choice at the end of Solo. That's a huge disappointment for me, personally, about TRoS. We get a lot of "yay team, we're all in this together!" pep talks. But it's really not interested in going after the rich a**hole's in Rian's words who cheat/try to steal from Rey in Niima Outpost, drove Rose from her homeworld and vacation in Canto Bight, or who Enfys Nest is fighting with her team of Cloud Riders. I would've loved to have seen a plot that followed this through about the system as exploited by the opportunists and the criminal alliances with the Empire and First Order (the major plot of Bloodline) with an uneasy team up between complicated enemies/exes as part of following through the speech ghost Han makes about what Leia championed. I suspect under different circumstances, not one with Q3 product launches for a streaming service and theme park ride where corporate management was anxious to not have any more old time fans pissed off at them, we might've got that story from somebody like Rian with input from Kasdan and whatever Carrie's thoughts were on the topic. It probably would've pissed off the same group which hate TLJ and characters like Rose. But it would've stood up as telling a consistent story (also a more interesting story IMO) across all the films. Instead two of the most promising details, what actually happened at Uncle Luke's Bible Camp and the impact of Casterfo outing Leia as Vader's biological daughter on Luke and Ben, are going to be at most, relegated to a comic book. A comic book, which by the way is on its 3rd pressing for the 1st issue because it keeps selling out as it seems to be dumping out relevant plot points (turns out Ben didn't kill anybody) which should've been in TRoS and outright contradicting details like who Snoke was and his role in Ben's fall. Even on Twitter, the author of Resistance Reborn is low-key criticizing TRoS for its handling of Poe contradicting how she wrote him, likely based on TLJ and you'd hope some creative input from LFL. Books aren't the movies and details that were too ancillary/complicated for the movies went into the books. But at least up until now they were consistent and you had novels like the ones Claudia Gray and Jason Fry (who sardonically replied, "That's showbiz, baby!" about what TRoS does to his novel) that were the result of consultation/collaboration with Rian Johnson. Versus how TRoS's cone of silence turned out to not be because of major spoilers but because they were literally making it up/changing it up until the last minute.
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Post by Lily Snape on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 12:44 am

@Darth Snoopy wrote:@motherofpearl1
I managed to stay away from spoilers going into the film, but have since learnt that most of the film was quite accurately leaked on Reddit? And that most people, thought they were fake or just decried the story as being bad. I do wonder if Disney or Lucasfilm actually monitors these leaks or if it was intentional? Though I think writers and creators should stick to their guns, and not worry about fan response - I think its interesting that the reactions to the leaks were negative? I also like to know if they ever, and I think they should, do test screenings for Star Wars films.

In regards to the almost lack of plot in TROS, in review they had many opportunities to up the stakes of their characters e.g. kylos almost non reaction to Palpatine stating he was every voice in his head - I would have had Ben have a freak out at that actually and coming off the coattails of TLJs '' let the past die'' have him misguidedly burn the FO to the ground as it was just an extension of Palpatines mechanisations. This would have been interesting as it meant him fighting the FO, but not necessarily turning to the light - a variation of vengeful motive that Finn had when Rose saves him in the TLJ. Rey being a Palpatine, we see a very lopsided reaction - to Finn, she says she's going to kill the Emperor (in revenge) , there's Dark Rey and we see her lashing out or giving back to Kylo her anger in her actions and the infamous stab and heal. But her being a Palpatine didn't have as many ramifications as it could have if it had been introduced earlier or differently. I also, have a personal pet idea of a scenario where the new republic could have had a severe hate of Palpatine and therefore feared his offspring (similar to Leia and Luke with the Vader reveal in Bloodline). And then perhaps they could have wanted to hunt down anyone seen as his possible heir from an official political or mercenary perspective. If Rey was created in the writers room  as knowing she was a hunted Palpatine - she could have been hiding out on Jakku, and it would have created a similar conflict in her wanting to belong somewhere but not being able to. Finn, is the character, that shouldn't have been pushed into comic relief or being so untouched by the strife of fellow troopers. He should have been visibly horrified when being put in a position of fighting other stormtroopers and actively addressed the brainwashing done by the FO. Rose - the handling of this character in TROS, is what I will never forgive ever. She didn't have to have a major arc or anything, but she was blatantly minimized. I've seen people argue that she had nothing to contribute to the story, but at least address the kiss from TLJ Suspect . I'm also not reducing her to Finns love interest or crutch, but in Star Wars, romance was always an important facet. A kiss in SW means more than it does in other films, Irvin Kershner explained that once, and I've subconsciously always perceived it that way.

@Darth Snoopy

There was a theory just after the film previewed and confirmed that the rumors were all true, that maybe insiders at LF had been trying to save the film by leaking the plot early while there was still a chance for JJ et. al. to realize, “Oh wow, people from all persuasions within the fandom hate this.” While there was still time to fix it at the last minute.

But no. They just put out a “I find your lack of faith disturbing” post on Twitter a week beforehand, and a trailer with Palpatine’s line about “At last...myyy boyyyyyy. I am every voice you’ve ever heard inside your head.” And we thought— a lot of us— “Our lack of faith is disturbing? That’s a good sign! They’re telling us that they would never make a crap movie like the one in the plot leaks! And surely they wouldn’t reveal to us that Ben Solo was manipulated and groomed all his life only to kill him? He has to have a happy ending. These leaks are bogus.”

I wish they had been.
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Post by Lily Snape on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 12:49 am

@vaderito wrote:They wanted the trio to continue beyond IX. But the trio flopped because characters were random. you never make a trio random. there's a structure behind trios. It's like a triangle there you have a top point and 2 points at the bottom that support the top. There's never equality in a trio for one is always who the story is about with 2 supporting him/her. That's why it's important that support has specific meaning. Take these examples:

Neo is the top. He's the One. But he cannot reach his potential without knowledge (Morpheus) and belief in himself (Trinity). That's why this trio is a mentor/knowledge/teaching and a love interest/emotion/faith in one you love.

Harry is the top. He's the bridge between Muggle and wizard worlds. For him to reach his potential, he needs to be in touch with both sides. Ron the wizard-born wizard is his wizard side (magic), Hermione the Muggle-born witch is his Muggle side (learning). There's a reason why those 2 members of the trio are exactly this.

TFA was never structured as a trio and therefore ST was never structured as a trio. Rey has always been self-sufficient. While Harry wasn't all that without his friends, Hermione's brains and knowledge, on one side, and Ron's emotional/family support on the other, Rey never needed anyone. That's a death knell to any trio if your top doesn't need support because he/she is self-reliant. So what do Finn and Poe represent? Nothing. What benefit Rey has from them? None. It's a bust.

BTW, if you look at chronology of events, CT script had a lot of Rose because he was fired before TLJ came out. So her treatment was not adjusted to backlash. They announced that CT was let go on Sep 5 2017 which is 3 months before TLJ release.

https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/colin-trevorrow-will-no-longer-direct-star-wars-episode-ix.html

So you now understand why she was minimized in JJ script. It was written after TLJ came out and therefore influenced by TLJ reception. They can't deny that. CT didn't have Rose as a major character out of the goodness of his heart but because they expected big things from her. JJ cut her down because she proved unpopular (and make no mistake CT would have too if he remained aboard).
@vaderito

It’s the old thing you learn in literature class about character foils— you’re absolutely right. Again, another ripple in the pond that started with the mistake of keeping Poe alive and then making him a bigger character than he should have been. The trio was probably supposed to be Rey, Finn, and— taking Poe away and elating enough time for Kylo to pull a Zuko earlier in the trilogy— Kylo/Ben.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 2:10 am

@KiraRen2015 wrote:@motherofpearl1 I'm surprised at that. I've seen the complete opposite on YouTube and a couple of revaluting TLJ ones.

I'm glad to hear that.
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Post by OrionStars on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 9:20 am

@Mila95 wrote:I'll laugh so hard if they give Luke a secret kid and it's not far fetched at all tbh. First cause it would be such an admission that Rey Skywalker is a failure and second cause just the sheer desperation that would have lol
@Mila95

I'm gonna be honest here, it's pretty much an admission that Rey Skywalker was a goner since the moment they declared that their future project is just going to be....The Yodalorian. I mean, WB immediately announced that they will make Aquaman 2 and Joker 2 after the original films reached $1 billion to hype their fans up and to keep them interested in DC franchise. Meanwhile, you know what Bobby just announced, don't you?  It sucks that Bennie Boi was born and was associated with the ST, but his character arc was completed and he's probably chilling in force heaven now. At least, Bobby has finally realized that Rey Skywalker and BFG should fall into the dark void of oblivion for the sake of SW franchise, they're not going to blindly push ReySky and BFG in hope that those characters would become iconic like what they did in the last 4 years anymore.
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Post by Piper Maru on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 10:14 am

The Yodalorian

Stretcher

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 11:11 am

@OrionStars wrote:
@Mila95 wrote:I'll laugh so hard if they give Luke a secret kid and it's not far fetched at all tbh. First cause it would be such an admission that Rey Skywalker is a failure and second cause just the sheer desperation that would have lol
@Mila95

I'm gonna be honest here, it's pretty much an admission that Rey Skywalker was a goner since the moment they declared that their future project is just going to be....The Yodalorian. I mean, WB immediately announced that they will make Aquaman 2 and Joker 2 after the original films reached $1 billion to hype their fans up and to keep them interested in DC franchise. Meanwhile, you know what Bobby just announced, don't you?  It sucks that Bennie Boi was born and was associated with the ST, but his character arc was completed and he's probably chilling in force heaven now. At least, Bobby has finally realized that Rey Skywalker and BFG should fall into the dark void of oblivion for the sake of SW franchise, they're not going to blindly push ReySky and BFG in hope that those characters would become iconic like what they did in the last 4 years anymore.
Do you have a link to what Iger said, please.
I'd like to see it.
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Post by californiagirl on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 11:55 am

@motherofpearl1 He basically said SW wouldn't grow in Asian markets (he really means China) if they relied on stories that required knowledge and connection to lots of older, legacy movies and characters. He contrasted this to Mandalorian, which is a new group of characters and its own story. Kind of a questionable statement, given they haven't even announced Disney+ for China yet, even Netflix isn't available there yet. He's trying to blame TROS being less successful on what it inherently was, as opposed to it being not good. Honestly the only way that film works is if one doesn't care too much about the continuity/canon or characters at all.
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Post by snufkin on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 12:01 pm

One detail I keep thinking over, is the whole talk Maz and Rey have in TFA about how her belonging is ahead and that the people she's waiting for aren't coming back, but somebody else could. Which LOL, the intent JJ probably had on some level was "turns out yer granddaddy is sorta important." But what a silly and depressing outcome for that moment, "somebody who still could" is Zombie Emperor on a crane and then her belonging is two dead people and a robot.
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Post by vaderito on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 12:04 pm

TBH, Mando works whether you watched SW or not. That's a big reason why it's so popular. You need no catching up in order to udnerstand what's going on. It's in SW universe but it's separate from previous events, so you really don't need to see in full detail how the galaxy came to that point. There was a war, and now it's a period of lawlessness and that's all you need to know.

I'm with @OrionStars If RRS was such a success, they would be announcing content with her left and right. Or with BFG if they were success. But it's crickets on that front. Instead, they are planning more content with Yodalorian Claps characters. That's not how studios behave in the wake of success. so I'll take it that they accepted that TROS didn't improve SW fortunes at last as far as BFG (individually or in any combo of 2 or 3) goes.
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