Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 10 Apr 2020, 10:26 am

I still can’t bring myself to buy or borrow the novel and while I have most of the “Shakespeare” books and that cover is beautiful, I just can’t subject myself to that story anymore. The more they talk about it, the angrier I get, but truthfully it was all evident just from watching the film. “We weren’t trying to undo any of Rian’s story.” Uhh... you pretty blatantly did, though.
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Post by Atenais on Fri 10 Apr 2020, 2:17 pm

@special_cases wrote:(...) I hope everybody noticed that the marketing's budget wasn't adequate for the last Saga movie.
@special_cases

I will never forget that. Some of us complained about the poor marketing in this forum. I remember we complained about lot of things, and people here called us pessimists. In the end - unfortunately - we were right.

*****

Seems like the confinement is helping to keep this forum active. I hope you are fine, guys!
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Post by vaderito on Fri 10 Apr 2020, 8:01 pm


https://www.themarysue.com/daisy-ridley-opened-up-about-the-backlash-against-the-rise-of-skywalker/

“It’s changed film by film honestly, like 98% it’s so amazing, this last film it was really tricky. January was not that nice. It was weird, I felt like all of this love that we’d sort of been shown the first time around, I was like ‘Where’s the love gone?’ I watched the documentary, the making-of, this week, and it’s so filled with love; and I think it’s that tricky thing of when you’re part of something that is so filled with love and then people…You know, everyone’s entitled to not like something but it feels like it’s changed slightly. I think in general that’s because social media and what have you.”

“If I went to a film and didn’t like it, I just wouldn’t tweet about it. But it’s such a conversation, and it always has been. I guess now conversations are just more public, so there’s stuff I wouldn’t have seen, but honestly, trying to scroll through my news feed in January and trying not to see Star Wars stuff, I’d see headlines and be like ‘Oh my god this is so upsetting.’ It’s been tricky but then it’s having that thing of I feel really proud of it, and I’m so thrilled to be part of it. But it’s a funny thing.”
[/quote]
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Post by Atenais on Fri 10 Apr 2020, 10:24 pm

I don't like or dislike a movie because it was made with love. I don't really care about how they make a movie, I just want to watch something good.

As people say, the hell is full of good intentions.
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Post by cherrylipstick on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 12:39 am

Well I'm sure that she did her best, especially with the poor character development she had in this last movie.
I'm also sorry for her because it must not be pleasant to read bad reviews, but what did she expect? Did she forget about the loud judgements after TLJ?
Yeah they probably were a nice group, they worked hard, they had fun and so on, but unfortunately for her the audience doesn't judge a movie by its bts stuff. And with a saga like SW it's impossibile to keep its fandom quiet, no matter if the movie is good or bad.
In this case it was simply a disaster Evil or Very Mad

And about Domhnall, after how his character was treated, he's simply TOO polite and nice to say that Laughing
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Post by unicorn on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:28 am

@Atenais wrote:I don't like or dislike a movie because it was made with love. I don't really care about how they make a movie, I just want to watch something good.

As people say, the hell is full of good intentions.
@Atenais

Maybe they should have made the movie with a decent script instead of love.
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Post by MaddieDove on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 4:23 am

Oscar seems to regret that his character stayed alive - will Daisy understand that insisting to be reunited with her peanut on the set was not the best use of everybody's brains and influences?

Did they have the first rehearsal at all? Having in mind how many rewriting there were, and experimenting and improvising on the set, no one's alarms went off at the time? Or were they so deep in the haze of collegial love?
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Post by vaderito on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 5:02 am

Yeah, movies shouldn't be made for cast members to hang out. TROS was made partly to have cast members hang out (cause they were complaining about lack thereof in TLJ even though they were working with other actors so it's kind of unfair to those actors) and that didn't work because it felt forced. These characters simply weren't at the right place for that and also for the type of talk-over-each-other-yell-woo-and-Reeey interaction that worked in TFA due to getting to know each other but was super grating in TROS.
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Post by californiagirl on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 8:14 am

I still think it's JJ and Terrio who are responsible for the amount of BFG that TROS had, based on things they've said, regardless of what the cast wanted. It's not like the Resistance buddy-buddies came into being solely because Daisy and John wanted it.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 9:04 am

It isn't come solely because actors wanted to JJ notoriously bends over backwards and writes movies around fan service, including fan servicing actors. Look no further from his writing the movie around Leia footage which was sheer madness and of course didn't end well. It's just a very stupid approach that has nothing to do how storytelling works. No wonder all his movies lack structure and are really poorly plotted.
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Post by fuhry on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 1:46 pm

I think a big part of the Star Wars magic is the ensemble acting. Watching Luke find the droids, Obi-wan, and then Han and Chewie, the whole group blasts into space on an adventure, the young kid, the old wizard, the wisecracking smuggler. Then, when they get to the Death Star, the droids split off, Obi-wan goes off, and now we get the Luke/Han/Chewie fun chemistry. Then Leia gets added in and suddenly there's tension and competition between Han and Luke, which is also kind of fun. Then Luke goes off with his pilot crew, which is also kind of fun.

To me, the reason TFA really worked (despite its problems) is that it really recreated that nicely. You have Rey finding BB-8, then Finn, and they have a really fun chemistry. Then you add in Han and Chewie and it ramps up a notch. Yes, Finn has that fun moment with Poe, but it's short and fleeting, getting Finn from A to B. Finn and Poe's chemistry is at it's best but it's brief. Finn and Rey, on the other hand, have a better adventure chemistry. And then of course there is the Rey/Kylo chemistry which kind of sets Finn adrift. Meanwhile Poe's real chemistry is with Leia and the x-wing squad he commands.

In TLJ, the Poe/Leia chemistry continues. Meanwhile Rey is on her journey to Kylo through Luke (with whom the chemistry is decent, not Luke/Yoda level but kind of good). And Finn finds Rose who is kind of like a surrogate Rey for him but much more aligned with his journey. And you definitely get some Rey/Chewbacca fun going on. The chemistry in TLJ is really 1:1, not so much groups.

So I understand why you'd want to bring characters more together in the final act. And putting Threepio right in the action was a solid move in that regard. But putting Poe out with Finn and Rey and Threepio gallivanting around is backwards character development. He's gone through this great maturing process in TLJ, and with Leia dying, the logical progression is for him to continues his leadership arc. But instead, he's running around with the group being the dominant character and rendering Finn superfluous. I even like the Poe/Rey bickering - I think it makes sense, but small doses would have been much better, just as small doses of Finn/Poe bromance are better.

You know what would have been fun? Finn/Rey/Rose. Imagine if Rose was the one out with Finn and Rey, navigating her feelings for Finn and Rey's friendship bond with him. With no one clearly in command of that group, it's a much more fun scenario. And Poe could have been back at base, continuing his relationship with / replacement of Leia and that would have ended up developing Connix' character a bit as Poe's sounding board.

So I really think that their love affair with the character of Poe (TFA version) really undercut their attempt to create some quality star wars ensemble acting. His presence just blocks the development of Finn and Rey (and Rose, OMG) and the creation of an alternate story for him as a former smuggler really wastes a lot of precious screen time, which is truly inexcusable when you're trying to explain how the f**** Palpatine got un-dead.

It's like a freaking Poe spinoff movie. Have Rose and Poe switch places and it's instantly a better movie. Switching Hux and Pryde would work wonders too. As for Kylo, they moved his development back too, forcing them to start from their own 10 yard line and waste screen time rehashing what he and Rey already went through in TLJ.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 2:02 pm

Yeah, their boner for Poe is so strange to me. They wanted him dead originally yet once they spared him, they gave him a comic book series sight unseen, and then put him in the Resistance show, gave him POV plot in TLJ that bored everyone out of their mind, then that dumb drug dealer story in TROS, etc. Nothing good really came from keeping that one around.
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Post by californiagirl on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 2:16 pm

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Post by Atenais on Sat 11 Apr 2020, 9:38 pm

@californiagirl

What a great article.

However, Markey was much more candid in her assessment, citing The Last Jedi as a burden on The Rise of Skywalker, arguing, “It’s very strange to have the second film so consciously undo the storytelling of the first one. I’m sorry that’s what it felt like.”

I read this nonsense and I thought of how stupid excuses uncreative people make.

The Rise of Skywalker doesn’t represent a thematic or narrative twist on the core ideas of The Last Jedi, but instead a passive aggressive point-by-point attempt to erase it, chiefly insisting that Rey could not use the Force that well without a preexisting relative to explain it.

THIS.

The comments on the article are very nice too.
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Post by fuhry on Sun 12 Apr 2020, 9:12 am

I really like the article, but:

1. I don't think the central twist of TLJ was Rey finding out her parents were nobodies. I think the central twist was Reylo.
2. Regarding the argument that TLJ subverted TFA, I really don't think TFA needed any help subverting itself. In retrospect, Abrams loves creating situations and throwing them up on screen with no good idea of how to resolve them. He paints himself into a corner and can't convincingly get out. That's what he did in TFA, creating both a mystery about Rey's parentage and a romantic tension between Rey and Kylo that complicated it.

Rian just went with the romantic tension, and pretty much ignored Rey's history. She goes into the cave, nothing. Kylo, the guy who's trying to get her to join him on the dark side, tells her in a way that leaves room for interpretation. He doesn't back it up with anything. To me, he almost completely ignores it.

So when J.J. had to figure out what to do with the story, he had to find a way out of the mess that HE created, and he failed to do so convincingly.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 12 Apr 2020, 11:42 am

@fuhry wrote:I think a big part of the Star Wars magic is the ensemble acting. Watching Luke find the droids, Obi-wan, and then Han and Chewie, the whole group blasts into space on an adventure, the young kid, the old wizard, the wisecracking smuggler. Then, when they get to the Death Star, the droids split off, Obi-wan goes off, and now we get the Luke/Han/Chewie fun chemistry. Then Leia gets added in and suddenly there's tension and competition between Han and Luke, which is also kind of fun. Then Luke goes off with his pilot crew, which is also kind of fun.

To me, the reason TFA really worked (despite its problems) is that it really recreated that nicely. You have Rey finding BB-8, then Finn, and they have a really fun chemistry. Then you add in Han and Chewie and it ramps up a notch. Yes, Finn has that fun moment with Poe, but it's short and fleeting, getting Finn from A to B. Finn and Poe's chemistry is at it's best but it's brief. Finn and Rey, on the other hand, have a better adventure chemistry. And then of course there is the Rey/Kylo chemistry which kind of sets Finn adrift. Meanwhile Poe's real chemistry is with Leia and the x-wing squad he commands.

In TLJ, the Poe/Leia chemistry continues. Meanwhile Rey is on her journey to Kylo through Luke (with whom the chemistry is decent, not Luke/Yoda level but kind of good). And Finn finds Rose who is kind of like a surrogate Rey for him but much more aligned with his journey. And you definitely get some Rey/Chewbacca fun going on. The chemistry in TLJ is really 1:1, not so much groups.

So I understand why you'd want to bring characters more together in the final act. And putting Threepio right in the action was a solid move in that regard. But putting Poe out with Finn and Rey and Threepio gallivanting around is backwards character development. He's gone through this great maturing process in TLJ, and with Leia dying, the logical progression is for him to continues his leadership arc. But instead, he's running around with the group being the dominant character and rendering Finn superfluous. I even like the Poe/Rey bickering - I think it makes sense, but small doses would have been much better, just as small doses of Finn/Poe bromance are better.

You know what would have been fun? Finn/Rey/Rose. Imagine if Rose was the one out with Finn and Rey, navigating her feelings for Finn and Rey's friendship bond with him. With no one clearly in command of that group, it's a much more fun scenario. And Poe could have been back at base, continuing his relationship with / replacement of Leia and that would have ended up developing Connix' character a bit as Poe's sounding board.

So I really think that their love affair with the character of Poe (TFA version) really undercut their attempt to create some quality star wars ensemble acting. His presence just blocks the development of Finn and Rey (and Rose, OMG) and the creation of an alternate story for him as a former smuggler really wastes a lot of precious screen time, which is truly inexcusable when you're trying to explain how the f**** Palpatine got un-dead.

It's like a freaking Poe spinoff movie. Have Rose and Poe switch places and it's instantly a better movie. Switching Hux and Pryde would work wonders too. As for Kylo, they moved his development back too, forcing them to start from their own 10 yard line and waste screen time rehashing what he and Rey already went through in TLJ.

The Rose hatred really angers me. Kelly as great, and I wanted to see more of her. I thought her character was nixed in order for a possible FinnRey, but they introduced Jannah, as Rey's destiny was to remain a virgin goddess.
And all Jannah really did was steal Finn's story arc.

-------

https://www.reyloskyforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=929
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