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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by DeeBee on Sat 04 Jul 2020, 6:56 pm

@californiagirl wrote:Here's a thread to end all threads about the TROS production. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was true. I want the tell all, this is the closest we've gotten. Incorporates many of the things we've discussed without seeming too wish fulfillment. https://twitter.com/neon_heartbeat/status/1279378702372007936
@californiagirl

I would love to read this but I don’t have a twitter account. I clicked on the link & it asked me to sign in, must I have an account to access it?
I’m pretty clueless about twitter ( clearly!)
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Post by californiagirl on Sat 04 Jul 2020, 7:14 pm

@DeeBee Odd, you shouldn't need an account, nor is this person on private. Sometimes people can control who sees their stuff though. It's too many posts to copy over though, I'll try linking it again. https://twitter.com/neon_heartbeat/status/1279378702372007936
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Post by DeeBee on Sat 04 Jul 2020, 7:15 pm

@californiagirl wrote:@DeeBee Odd, you shouldn't need an account, nor is this person on private. Sometimes people can control who sees their stuff though. It's too many posts to copy over though, I'll try linking it again. https://twitter.com/neon_heartbeat/status/1279378702372007936
@californiagirl

Thanks for such a swift reply :-)
It worked!! I’m off to read it now :-) thanks for sharing
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Post by Piper Maru on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 4:15 am

I know some people with ties in the film industry and that thread lines up with some things that randomly came out in the past few months and also with what my acquaintances told me. Something must have leaked last week, because that's when I've heard some whispers. If so, s*** is going to hit the fan sooner or later Twisted Evil
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 6:01 am

I know they'll NEVER do it.....but TROS was a disaster area and should be removed from canon. TFA was popular and a commercial success, TLJ divided opinion but financially was as successful as ESB, and recieved massive critical acclaim.
TROS was an abomination. I doubt very much if the cast would be interested in returning, but the story could continue in comic or book format. TROS ended the SW saga with the heroes dead and their enemy's descendant literally standing on their graves.
This is NOT the way to end any saga.
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Post by unicorn on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 8:03 am

@Piper Maru wrote: Something must have leaked last week, because that's when I've heard some whispers. If so, s*** is going to hit the fan sooner or later Twisted Evil
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Pop corn Me, waiting for the sh*t lol!
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Post by vaderito on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 8:52 am

OK guys at least this quote is pure BS:


-Trevorrow was not told what the plot of TLJ even was when they told him six months before the film came out to start working on his script, so he had to rewrite that
- Disney was, as we all suspected, paying attention to the negative reactions to tlj and thoug tros would fix it

Not sure what to make of this quote from that TROS Tea Tweet. Trevorrow was fired before TLJ came out so there was no reaction to pay attention to. He was officially removed in Sep 2017. TLJ came out in Dec 2017. Moreover, it's no secret that CT asked Rian to add Rey and Poe meet cute because he wrote their romance into DotF script. So he had some idea about TLJ plot. Not that this disputes the whole Tea, just that I'm not sure about this part.
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Post by unicorn on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 11:22 am

I took this as two different points, no?  One point CT not knowing the plot of TLJ in time, so he had to rewrite his own script.  Another point DLF reacting  to the mixed opinions about TLJ.
But whatever, I don´t know what´s BS in this tweet and others and what is possibly true.
There went clearly so much wrong with this desaster of a movie, almost everything of these rumors could be true, at least in parts.
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Post by vaderito on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 11:52 am

I don't think that the tweet is 100% LARP but it's very possible that the source knows a little but embellishes a lot. And those types are the worst cause hard to tell which is which. I'd say that November stunt double is true because too specific to make up for no reason. Trevorrow is embellishment for it doesn't add up (if he was kept in the dark than how come he knew Rey and Poe had no scene together and asked for one to be included? How come his script continues Finn and Rose romance?). The story about Adam and Daisy stunts is what Eunice the stunt coordinator talked about. So not a new thing. Matt Smith very likely true cause too many unrelated people with connections said he was involved. I think he was the acolyte that Palaptine spirit possessed (early MSW leak). I also believe that they shot various versions of some key scenes (the source mentions Reylo fihgt) because I've heard that from an actual source.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 2:40 pm

Wish they'd gone the Matt Smith route, far more believable.
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Post by Atenais on Sun 05 Jul 2020, 3:23 pm

Unfortunately I'm late and the tweets are now protected. Could any of you still see it and send to me? ♥
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Post by californiagirl on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 12:09 am

Are we 100% sure the Trevorrow script was his actual script? I've always thought it was very plausible, but I don't think it was ever confirmed. And I interpreted its Finn/Rose relationship as platonic rather than romantic, but could be wrong. I know he wrote multiple drafts, though I thought that was mostly because KK didn't like them, rather than not knowing the plot until late in the game. Maybe both.

The Matt Smith thing seems likely, which makes me both sad it didn't happen but also glad that, even if it's potentially bad, it might exist somewhere. He said he wasn't involved back in early 2019, and no one ever explained it, so it's been a point of conspiracy and rumor to this very day. Funny how he's been entirely MIA since that point. Which also aligns with the Palpatine reveal at Celebration, mixed up or overlapping with the Matt Smith/acolyte rumors shortly after. Might explain why it didn't leak before that point, if Ian McDiarmid came only late in production, possibly with the skeleton crew of those last couple months. Would also explain why he's only on one set, and why he's not in the art book (Exogol is hardly there either), and barely in the VD.

Even things we do know they filmed, like on Mustafar, got majorly slashed. Imagine what exists we don't even know about. Given everything that went down, I wouldn't be surprised if it changed even more afterwards. No wonder the plot seems jumbled to nonexistent, they basically scrapped it because they were forced to swap out the villain for another one that didn't make sense in the context of everything else they'd done.

And of course, the Rey Palpatine thing that people long guessed, even back in December at release, had been tacked on at the last minute. Wonder if there was a parentage reveal in an earlier cut, Daisy gave me the impression there wasn't. Nor was there in CT's supposed leaked script. Was there a different Snoke explanation, or none? Again, not in the leaked script either, and the editor admitted it was a last minute add.

Daisy also mentioned the ending changed, wonder what that implies. The whole Rey Skywalker thing seems tacked on pretty late, leaked during summer reshoots, connecting to that point about the lack of TROS/Reywalker merch because the film didn't match the stuff anymore, which people guessed a while ago, paired with the reused Pasaana footage. The BFG hug was also a reshoot. Rey flying back to the base at the end looking weirdly emotionless was reused footage of her flying to, not from, Exogol, if I'm not mistaken. But I have no idea what the original ending would have been, just that the one we got seemed really patched together at the last second.

Meanwhile, the fate of Ben Solo remains a complete mystery. Wonder if they changed that around at various points as well, and on whose order.

My biggest question at the moment is if Disney/Iger wanted certain things in response to TLJ, why didn't they push it from the beginning of production, rather than the end of the shoot/reshoots/post-production? And why did they think the audience was too dumb, apathetic, tasteless, or hateful to notice the poor quality of the end product? Like why did they think this would work, whether by fan reception or monetary profit? Even the people they were trying to cater to didn't like it for the most part.

And above all, this would explain why someone high up in production, along with good portions of LF, was salty about the direction shift, leaking stuff for a full year in much detail (though I could never figure out if Jannah was supposed to be Lando's daughter). The cast, crew, fans, even SW itself didn't deserve this.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 2:56 am

Apart from Rey/Poe and the awful treatment of Kylo, CT's script was a lot better than TROS, so I'm genuinely baffled why they changed it - they could have kept some of it at least. Regarding them thinking it would work, I suspect that like many wealthy big corporations Disney are so confident everything they do will be a success that they thought "it's Star Wars, everyone's going to accept it".
Solo should have taught them a lesson, but although I've said it before, whoever thought ending the entire SW saga with the heroes all gone and a Palpatine inheriting the family legacy needed their heads looking.


Regarding the art book....I noticed that some concept involved Kylo watching some kind of mist rising from Darth Vader's mask ..... another abandoned plot. TROS is full of them.
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Post by DeeBee on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 4:10 am

@Atenais wrote:Unfortunately I'm late and the tweets are now protected. Could any of you still see it and send to me? ♥
@Atenais

Hiya! I just checked and I can see it. I took a copy of it.
Maybe check again?
https://twitter.com/neon_heartbeat/status/1279378702372007936
If it doesn’t work tag me and let me know and I’ll PM it to you Atenais sunny
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Post by Saracene on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 5:58 am

I have a big problem believing that most of the film’s issues had little to do with JJ, when exactly the same issues pop up in pretty much all of his movies. TRoS sounds like a JJ Abrams movie through and through, just with his worst traits magnified.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 6:03 am

I think that the best bits of TFA might have been due to Kasdan's writing. I suspect he was the one who wanted Sympathetic Kylo. I did read somewhere that Harrison was the one who suggested the scene where he stroked his son's face, JJ didn't want that.
If this is the case I think the Han Solo death scene was simply so JJ could make Kylo a hate figure and when he replaced him with his Mary Sue, people would cheer. But thanks to Rian and Adam it didn't go the way he thought.
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Post by vaderito on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 8:23 am

@Saracene wrote:I have a big problem believing that most of the film’s issues had little to do with JJ, when exactly the same issues pop up in pretty much all of his movies. TRoS sounds like a JJ Abrams movie through and through, just with his worst traits magnified.
@Saracene

this. anything that tries to absolve JJ from any responsibility is either JJ camp planting damage control rumors or JJ super fans LARPing as insiders.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 8:51 am

Worst thing is I mourn what could have been.
Love or hate TLJ, RJ left so many tantalising ideas.
Kylo forced to flee the FO after a coup by Hux on discovering who'd REALLY killed Snoke.
Poe becoming leader of a harsher, more fanatical Resistance.
Rey struggling to control her powers and finding herself pulled between the Resistance and Kylo.
Luke's FG visiting Kylo...a d them finally resolving the past
Finn and Rose going undercover and liberating the stormtroopers
Kylo and Rey facing the Son of Mortis together.

What a waste.
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Post by californiagirl on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 9:24 am

Even for JJ, there seems to have been some sudden, radical shift quite late in production/post, even for someone notorious for constantly changing as he goes. He and Terrio are responsible too, as evidenced by literally whenever they talked about TROS after release, it just got increasingly worse every time. But the film practically radiates corporate intervention.

If they had kept more of CT's script, they would have needed to credit him as a screenwriter. I think they only listed him for story development out of contractual obligation. After Book of Henry, I imagine Disney wanted as little association with him as possible.

Anyway, Kasdan, Matt Smith, and Kiri Hart have all been super MIA during this whole thing.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 9:56 am

I wish they could erase TROS from canon and continue the story in comic or book format. Or they could still do that and leave TROS , continue in a 'what if' AU.
I'd love it if there was a better version of TROS out there - no Palpatine, no Rey Palpwalker, Ben/Kylo surviving,..but that's just wishful thinking.

It's not just killing off Ben that gets me mad....it's the way they have absolutely ruined Rey. How she was presented in TROS makes her look as if she never felt a thing for Ben Solo . She ends up a self righteous, judgemental little prig. 'I could never love Kylo Ren'......how lucky Belle wasn't like that, or the Prince would have remained a Beast.

JJ himself referred to the Disney prince similarity on the TFA behind the scenes. So why did he turn his 'princess' into a self righteous nun?
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Post by Atenais on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 10:12 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@Atenais wrote:Unfortunately I'm late and the tweets are now protected. Could any of you still see it and send to me? ♥
@Atenais

Hiya! I just checked and I can see it. I took a copy of it.
Maybe check again?
https://twitter.com/neon_heartbeat/status/1279378702372007936
If it doesn’t work tag me and let me know and I’ll PM it to you Atenais sunny
@DeeBee

I couldn't see it yesterday, now I can. Thank you very much.
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Post by snufkin on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 11:55 pm

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 15 Screen85
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 1:58 am

I did exactly the same as Singer - I tried to watch it again and ended up skipping to the Kylo scenes. Which was even more depressing when I realized how few of them there are.

Maybe I'm the only one but I just can NOT stand the Trio.
Plus the sight of Poe flying the Falcon, and Rey sitting in Han's seat.
They couldn't make it more obvious if they tried.
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Post by special_cases on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 1:45 am

JJ was behind a lot of leaks for this production and he is still doing it. All these people from JJ's team and sudden leaks sources (credible) are appearing to manipulate the internet crowd's opinion. So gross if you ask me. Ironically that JJ is so obsessed with the audience's love but he just forgot that there is much easier way to get it. Write some adequate story, direct an original movie and f*cking own the thing you created. Instead of telling us how George's prequels were not so great or that RJ's approach wasn't fitting.
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 10:00 am

Not sure what he thought the benefit would be. I guess it prepared people, but it just made everyone angry and stressed months before it came out. Did he really think the response would be positive? Even though it kept changing? Like why would he think people would like him for this?
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