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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by Gemini on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:44 am

@californiagirl wrote:I think Rey Palps in unpopular both because it was badly set up and just kind of a bad idea, but because it's ultimately what we got in the end. I'm thrilled at the tanking of both Rey Palpatine and Rey Skywalker.

The Dune trailer just dropped, my main worry is that people will view it as just another SW/Trek/Avatar/mainstream space opera. To my understanding, Dune is immensely weird, and beyond the first book becomes nihilistic and everyone has unhappy endings. Which is fine because Dune is not SW, I just wonder if expectations aren't quite on track with what it is.
@californiagirl

Me too LOL
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Post by Atenais on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 12:56 pm

@californiagirl wrote:And are we really still going on about "Rian ruined JJ's Kenobi plans because he's bad" almost three years later? This is the most clear-cut demonstration yet that they were never committed to any particular lineage for Rey, it was all very flippant and not treated with much significance. There wasn't much for Rian to contradict to begin with, because I'll be blunt, most people weren't thinking of Kenobi and there wasn't enough set-up from the first 7 films for it to actually make sense. There wasn't really any parentage theory based on preexisting characters that would make sense going into TLJ, let alone after it.
@californiagirl

No, we're not going to this path, because RJ wasn't an independent creator, he didn't create anything the studio didn't approve. This is just childish complain to give the blame to one person. We're talking about a multimillionaire studio!

The thing is, they didn't have a plan and no balls. And they aren't geniuses to come up with a good story, even if things aren't planned. And they were to much greedy to dare to displease a portion of their public, so, they did hear the complains after TLJ. I'm sad because it was such a waste of a great project, with good actors.
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Post by Gemini on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 2:19 pm

I mean, in regards to what she meant about Kenobi. I think she means in TFA, because she then says she became no one (in 8? ) said it was Rey Palp at the start of TROS then it changed several times during the filming of 9, No?

There is a "kenobi connection" moment to her in TFA when he calls out to her after she sees herself abandoned as a child. And it means lineage if daisy said that in an answer to her lineage. I think she means TFA. TFA would be the beginning.

It was only present in TFA. It wasn't in 8, there was echoes of what was started in 7 during 9, but nothing much.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 3:13 pm

@californiagirl wrote:I think Rey Palps in unpopular both because it was badly set up and just kind of a bad idea, but because it's ultimately what we got in the end. I'm thrilled at the tanking of both Rey Palpatine and Rey Skywalker.

The Dune trailer just dropped, my main worry is that people will view it as just another SW/Trek/Avatar/mainstream space opera. To my understanding, Dune is immensely weird, and beyond the first book becomes nihilistic and everyone has unhappy endings. Which is fine because Dune is not SW, I just wonder if expectations aren't quite on track with what it is.
@californiagirl

Not going to lie; I tried watching the mini series as a kid and couldn't understand or get into it. After watching The Thug Notes edition I am a tad excited for it.


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Post by spacebaby45678 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 3:48 pm

I have been a Dune head since the 90's read the first three books, Dune, Dune Messiah, and God Emperor of Dune...

Dune's nihilism is a cautionary tale as opposed to Hollywood's current habit of dressing up nihilism as a happy ending...


General audiences have never taken to the story... it is hard to translate to the screen, however there are themes in Dune that make it an exceptionally timely myth for the times that we live in right now.  Denis hinted at this in his interview with Stephen Colbert this morning, I am hoping he leans into those themes.. I hope it lands in our cultural solar plexus

And honestly after watching Timothee in The King on Netflix... I am a huge fan.. he has something..



Last edited by spacebaby45678 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Birdwoman on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 3:53 pm

I have been taking a break from Star Wars the last couple of months. When I heard the interview it was nice to hear what so many of us had said since TROS came out that they just winged and shoehorned things into the story. I know that TLJ was not every ones cup of tea but I felt that it actually expanded the SW movie universe potential past the 'Skywalkers.' Now it is back to special blood lines. I will wait and see what they do with the new content but so far they seem to be producing content tied to the OT, which I thought the whole purpose of the movies was to expand past it? Of course, I am known to misunderstand things.

Also, during this time of living through a extremely long quarantine I just want movies with hopeful endings. Real life is hard as it is and the ending of TROS is depressing to me besides being poorly written movie.

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 4:14 pm

And to think, LF probably thought this was going to be a great week for them, with Mando first look/press yesterday and announcing a publishing panel at NYCC today, but sandwiched in between was this mess. More of a confirmation than being fully news, but still, it set the discourse rolling again, and on top of being outshone by the Dune trailer. Also John's recent comments. This week did not go as expected for them!
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Post by Piper Maru on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:22 pm

The brand is damaged beyond recognition and they need to accept that instead of just trying to patch things up with "treats" for the fans.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:54 pm

@spacebaby45678 wrote:I have been a Dune head since the 90's read the first three books, Dune, Dune Messiah, and God Emperor of Dune...

Dune's nihilism is a cautionary tale as opposed to Hollywood's current habit of dressing up nihilism as a happy ending...


General audiences have never taken to the story... it is hard to translate to the screen, however there are themes in Dune that make it an exceptionally timely myth for the times that we live in right now.  Denis hinted at this in his interview with Stephen Colbert this morning, I am hoping he leans into those themes.. I hope it lands in our cultural solar plexus

And honestly after watching Timothee in The King on Netflix... I am a huge fan.. he has something..

@spacebaby45678

This BTS looks even better than the trailer:

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Post by vaderito on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 5:57 pm

@Darth Dementor wrote:  
Not going to lie; I tried watching the mini series as a kid and couldn't understand or get into it.  After watching The Thug Notes edition I am a tad excited for it.

@Darth Dementor

Oh no! I understand that you couldn't get into Dune mini cause it's pretty stilted (not as much as Lynch movie but still). But Children of Dune mini is wonderful and very accessible. It's a totally different animal. Give it a chance. It's very emotional and score is one of the best ever.

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 6:50 pm

There was a SW Sims add-on pack this week too. The Reylos march on.

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Post by cherrylipstick on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 12:45 am

@Birdwoman wrote:I have been taking a break from Star Wars the last couple of months. When I heard the interview it was nice to hear what so many of us had said since TROS came out that they just winged and shoehorned things into the story. I know that TLJ was not every ones cup of tea but I felt that it actually expanded the SW movie universe potential past the 'Skywalkers.' Now it is back to special blood lines. I will wait and see what they do with the new content but so far they seem to be producing content tied to the OT, which I thought the whole purpose of the movies was to expand past it? Of course, I am known to misunderstand things.

Also, during this time of living through a extremely long quarantine I just want movies with hopeful endings. Real life is hard as it is and the ending of TROS is depressing to me besides being poorly written movie.
@Birdwoman

I quote everything but especially the bolded part.
What I will never forgive about this movie, apart from deaths, bad story choises, lineages, is definitely the depressing and flat ending.
I could have accepted a bad movie, but this ending (and this sequel trilogy in general) ruined everything SW was for me. Because no matter what happened in the story you still knew that it was the kind of movie where there's always hope and the possibility for an happy and satisfying ending.
But this bunch of incompetent decided to choose the worse option possibile and they ruined the entire brand. SW used to be epic, now is just a joke.

Now I can no longer hear a SW song (music that I used to love soooo much in the past) without feeling annoyed, and I will never forgive them for this  Evil or Very Mad
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Post by spacebaby45678 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 2:40 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:I have been a Dune head since the 90's read the first three books, Dune, Dune Messiah, and God Emperor of Dune...

Dune's nihilism is a cautionary tale as opposed to Hollywood's current habit of dressing up nihilism as a happy ending...


General audiences have never taken to the story... it is hard to translate to the screen, however there are themes in Dune that make it an exceptionally timely myth for the times that we live in right now.  Denis hinted at this in his interview with Stephen Colbert this morning, I am hoping he leans into those themes.. I hope it lands in our cultural solar plexus

And honestly after watching Timothee in The King on Netflix... I am a huge fan.. he has something..

@spacebaby45678

This BTS looks even better than the trailer:

@vaderito

The cast looks so genuinely pumped especially Jason... I love the minimalism of the design... I am ok with not seeing Dune until 2021.. it is a must see in IMAX not going to be appropriate for digital release like Mulan.
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Post by vaderito on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 4:34 pm

@spacebaby45678 Jason is so freakin adorable. I'm in love. Such genuine charisma and charm. Everyone pretty much let him hype the fans cause he does it so well. Yeah, this is to be seen on IMAX, proper release not TV. So yeah, I'm OK with a wait if needs be.
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Post by rey09 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 8:56 pm

I've been trying to read Dune for like a year now, so hard to get through...but now gotta push myself. Looks gorgeous as expected.

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Post by californiagirl on Fri 11 Sep 2020, 5:14 pm

Almost 9 months later and there are still new takes about TROS being not good. There have been a lot of pieces about the movie in general, or the treatment of Rey, Kylo, the women, people of color, 2 second same-sex kiss, etc., but it's rare to have a more specific theme addressed, probably because TROS doesn't have many. This one is about the disregard of death, even if I disagree with him on a couple of points.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/lets-talk-about-death-baby-in-star-wars-the-rise-of-1844998633
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 12 Sep 2020, 8:31 am

@cherrylipstick wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:I have been taking a break from Star Wars the last couple of months. When I heard the interview it was nice to hear what so many of us had said since TROS came out that they just winged and shoehorned things into the story. I know that TLJ was not every ones cup of tea but I felt that it actually expanded the SW movie universe potential past the 'Skywalkers.' Now it is back to special blood lines. I will wait and see what they do with the new content but so far they seem to be producing content tied to the OT, which I thought the whole purpose of the movies was to expand past it? Of course, I am known to misunderstand things.

Also, during this time of living through a extremely long quarantine I just want movies with hopeful endings. Real life is hard as it is and the ending of TROS is depressing to me besides being poorly written movie.
@Birdwoman

I quote everything but especially the bolded part.
What I will never forgive about this movie, apart from deaths, bad story choises, lineages, is definitely the depressing and flat ending.
I could have accepted a bad movie, but this ending (and this sequel trilogy in general) ruined everything SW was for me. Because no matter what happened in the story you still knew that it was the kind of movie where there's always hope and the possibility for an happy and satisfying ending.
But this bunch of incompetent decided to choose the worse option possibile and they ruined the entire brand. SW used to be epic, now is just a joke.

Now I can no longer hear a SW song (music that I used to love soooo much in the past) without feeling annoyed, and I will never forgive them for this  Evil or Very Mad

100% with you.
They have turned my most precious form of escapism for forty two years into a miserable, depressing piece of ****. No one will tell me a film which ends with the bloodline of the characters who were the heart and soul of the franchise extinct is hopeful, let alone satisfying.

Ultimately I've washed my hands of the lot of them. They can whistle for my money now. I'm zero invested in prequels. We know how and where the story ends.
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Post by californiagirl on Sat 12 Sep 2020, 2:49 pm

This is interesting. Apparently major IP universes generally don't have a way to keep track of continuity outside of fan wikis. Given that Chuck has done SW before...

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Post by KiraRen2015 on Sat 12 Sep 2020, 2:58 pm

@californiagirl OMG I'm crying with laughter here! If this is true in LF's case, then not only is it embarrassingly shameful, but also renders the whole story group pointless. What is the point of hiring them to keep tabs on continuity if they don't bother to keep track themselves and resort to this? They are a completely laughing stock!
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Post by unicorn on Sat 12 Sep 2020, 3:41 pm

If we had known this, maybe we could have written some really helpful articles. Dammit!
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 12 Sep 2020, 4:12 pm

Even better send them some Reylo fanfiction.
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Post by Atenais on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 2:36 pm

Interesting article from Inverse, about Rey's parentage.

I will quote some lines I liked:

But with the recent reveal from Daisy Ridley that Lucasfilm "toyed with" the concept of Rey being Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter instead, we need to ask: was there a better option?

The short answer: Yes, but it's not Rey Kenobi. Here's why.

Perhaps the best answer for Rey's identity lies in a since retconned line from The Last Jedi when Kylo tells Rey that she "comes from nothing." This would not be the natural progression of the Chosen One story, in fact, it wouldn't be a Chosen One story at all, just the story of a girl with massive Force capabilities swept up into a revolution.

Rey Nobody would have subverted everything we'd seen in Star Wars so far, and it would leave an important message: You don't have to be from a famous family to be a hero, all you need is passion and drive. Star Wars could have gone from a hero's journey to a villain's journey to an everyman's story — even if it's an everywoman who could use the Force.

I mean, the Hero's Journey trope is a good one. But we want to see the same trope again and again or we want to see something different?
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Post by Saracene on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 3:57 pm

“All you need to be a hero is passion and drive... oh and massive force abilities too.” Some egalitarian message.

How is a hero journey different to an everyman journey? Luke in the OT was a complete everyman, an ordinary farm boy swept into an adventure. No one referred to the Skywalkers before the ST as some sort of elite royal family. It honestly feels like a forced perspective to justify Rey’s central role in the ST, like Rey Nobody is correcting something and it’s “undemocratic” to just follow generations in a *family space soap opera*. Yes of course SW doesn’t have to be about the Skywalkers or family soap, but then have the balls to genuinely make movies about the new characters instead of forcing them into the centre of the family saga while coasting on familiarity and nostalgia. Also, how is Rey not a Chosen One when TLJ basically says that the force picked her to be Kylo’s light side counterpart? Sounds like a Chosen One to me.

Sorry but all these “Rey Nobody is revolutionary and subversive” claims are IMO totally misguided.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 4:42 pm

I'm fine with Rey Nobody. I'm fine with Rey Kenobi.

But I despise Rey Skywalker.
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Post by DeeBee on Tue 15 Sep 2020, 6:25 am

Hi all, sooooooooo the TROS story gallery is finally up on the Official Star Wars website.
And warning, there’s loads of salt from me incoming! Take cover if you have high blood pressure haaa.
I’ve not had a chance to read right through All of it yet, but all movies on the website get a story gallery, here the movies main plot points are summarised. ( as you may have Guessed it doesn’t make TROS look good!)
https://www.starwars.com/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-story-gallery
A few random comments.. in no particular order...
Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 28 3d9b7410
Rey collapses! Dead? Nah. They still haven’t decided. But this is fill in the blank Star Wars. So if you want her to be dead, she’s dead. If you want her to be almost dead? She’s almost dead. Whatever you like.
What do you make of the ‘rare smile’
Twist the knife a bit LFL me thinks...

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A skywalker once again wields... I... can’t... even!  
It’s like LFL want us to cheer hoorah! Then meh. He dies, whatevs.

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Nope, summarising the plot like this doesn’t make it any more understandable!
It’s so clunky this plot they actually say basically ‘just like what happened with Palpatine and Luke!’
(Doing that exact same thing again? That’s suuuuuper clever! Not.)

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Ohhh so it wasnt luck, it was......... gratitude!  Rolling Eyes

You find any gems? Pls share?
Oh Star Wars, you deserved so much better than this...
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