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Official TROS Spoilers discussion

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Post by Sacrebleu on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 11:17 am

@fuhry wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:Making Rey a Palpatine also took valuable time because it had to be explained, time that could have been used for more character moments and development.  It also added two more new characters (her parents) that we barely learn anything about.
@Sacrebleu

Personally I think some further exposition on Rey's origin is helpful to the story.  But they way they chose to expose this was so clunky and awkward.  Palpatine tells Kylo, Kylo tells Rey, Luke and Leia knew all along?  Ugh.  I would rather they full-out retcon TLJ and have one of her parents be alive, and having her run into that person.   That's what they did with Poe!  So just replace that unnecessary Poe backstory with Rey backstory.
@fuhry

I agree with you about the clunkiness.  "You're a Palpatine" makes me cringe.  I still don't know how Leia and Luke knew, and it sure makes Luke's repeated "Who are you?" in TLJ look strange.

But there is a larger issue for me.  IMO, whoever decided Rey's parentage and whatever they decided, it should have been left at that.  Each and every time you play the "this-character's-parents-aren't-who-you-think-they-are" game it loses more of its effectiveness, and that game has been played plenty in this saga.  By shoehorning another reveal into the final film, they had to make up too much ground quickly.  Doing it yet again also cheapens the device and in a crowded, fast moving film left all of it to be explained to Rey by Kylo.  He had to convey a great deal of information to Rey in a big hurry.  "Your parents were nobody because they chose to be, they were trying to protect you, Palpatine wanted you because he knew what you would become, you don't just have power, you have his power, Palpatine is your grandfather, you're a Palpatine, he tried to find you, he gave the order to kill your parents, and by the way we're a Dyad."  It's too much and mars the drama of the reveal.  Contrast that with the Vader and Luke scene on Bespin.  I was in the theater for opening night of ESB in 1980, and it works so much better when you don't see it coming from a mile away.  By having two parentage reveals in the OT, the audience was conditioned to expect it and look for it in the ST, and indeed many demanded it and got angry when they didn't get the one they wanted.

Because they changed Rey's parentage most of her conversations, especially with Kylo, had to be about that.  It lessened the impact of the big moment in TLJ where Rey finally faces the truth about herself and her family.  She has the big epiphany, the big character changing moment, in which Kylo plays a significant part, and then....psych!  Nuh-uh.

Rey Palps is an unnecessary change, because whether or not Palps and Rey are related, he's the evil bad guy, she despises him, and she's going to kill him.  Their familial relationship has no real relevance to the story besides making her more afraid of the dark side, and she had already been shown in the earlier films to have that tendency.  It is part of the Jedi journey, regardless of who your grandparents are.

I'm not saying Rey Palps or Rey Kenobi were necessarily bad ideas, but the way they executed it was all wrong.  Two parentage reveals for Rey are one too many IMO.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 1:06 pm

The poor dialogue in TROS makes the entire PT look as if it was written by William Shakespeare.
"They fly now! You're a Palpatine. I am all the Jedi."

Cringe along.
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 4:21 pm

From a couple days ago. The person who shared this said their source claimed they were editing until Thanksgiving, but they find the rest of it plausible. How legit do we think this is?

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Post by Geralt_Riv on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 4:45 pm

@californiagirl wrote:From a couple days ago. The person who shared this said their source claimed they were editing until Thanksgiving, but they find the rest of it plausible. How legit do we think this is?

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@californiagirl
Sounds like bulls**t to me.
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 6:36 pm

@Geralt_Riv It's hard to tell with these things. We thought much of the leaks were nonsense, but they were mostly true. Who knows what exactly went down, or even if or when we find out.
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Post by Geralt_Riv on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 7:10 pm

@californiagirl wrote:@Geralt_Riv It's hard to tell with these things. We thought much of the leaks were nonsense, but they were mostly true. Who knows what exactly went down, or even if or when we find out.
@californiagirl
There is one thing in there that feels like truth: story group was excluded from making this movie. That JJ and Terrio could do whatever they wanted. There could be enough evidence in the movie that supports that. It contradicts much of Disney canon. The rest is mostly bulls**t in my opinion. Of course the movie changed during filming but I don't think that it changed so much that we got something completely different. JJ always changes some scenes in his movies because he goes for what looks cool to him, but what is presented here would mean that he doesn't know how to make movies and I don't think that is the case. The rest of this story is even less possible. Especially three different endings with one where Ben Solo lives or Adam pushing for a kiss in the movie.

PS: "Adam and Daisy are very close" is so unfortunately worded that it feels like shipping actors so I leave it at that.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 8:58 pm

@Geralt_Riv wrote:
@californiagirl wrote:@Geralt_Riv It's hard to tell with these things. We thought much of the leaks were nonsense, but they were mostly true. Who knows what exactly went down, or even if or when we find out.
@californiagirl
There is one thing in there that feels like truth: story group was excluded from making this movie. That JJ and Terrio could do whatever they wanted. There could be enough evidence in the movie that supports that. It contradicts much of Disney canon. The rest is mostly bulls**t in my opinion. Of course the movie changed during filming but I don't think that it changed so much that we got something completely different. JJ always changes some scenes in his movies because he goes for what looks cool to him, but what is presented here would mean that he doesn't know how to make movies and I don't think that is the case. The rest of this story is even less possible. Especially three different endings with one where Ben Solo lives or Adam pushing for a kiss in the movie.

PS: "Adam and Daisy are very close" is so unfortunately worded that it feels like shipping actors so I leave it at that.
@Geralt_Riv

Agree

I dismissed it because it's too exaggerated...

If anything is revealed to make anyone a mustache twirling villain - including JJTerrio, I dismiss it. There are stupid decisions (and DFL will need to face the music for that), but nothing was decided out of malice.
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 9:42 pm

The other bit that seems possible is LF employees being unhappy, since there's unfortunately ample evidence of that in the past 5 months.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 29 Apr 2020, 10:55 pm

There were definitely unhappy employees (and perhaps the ones that are most unhappy have left), yet I also see happy and neutral-type outlook employees at LF (and LF-related)based on their social network feeds. (Perhaps they are OK with TROS, as foreign as that feels, or they are focusing/working on the other projects with mythic/narrative promise from LF). ??

Someday all will be revealed, but I think it's too soon, and what we feel is concerning - nobody in the industry seems to care. There was a time it seemed there was a smoking-gun, but Variety, etc just didn't care. When I saw that they didn't care, I admit recalibrating my concern about this (no use for it to affect my blood pressure Very Happy Smile)
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Post by special_cases on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 2:13 am

Sounds like fake and was created with certain agenda. All important information is about Kylo or Reylo. Usually there is more juicy information to share about the plot/story.
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Post by Sacrebleu on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 8:27 am

They can't have it both ways. They can't move on from the Skywalkers and create new leads unrelated to the Skywalkers while simultaneously connecting virtually everything in the films to the Skywalkers, because that pushes the Skywalkers front and center again, which is exactly what happened with Kylo/Ben. He was the character who got the most response, love him or hate him, in part because he was the only Skywalker.
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Post by vaderito on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 10:34 am

@californiagirl

There are some things in that scoop that I knew about since Feb 2019. And some things that I knew about much earlier but that's not for public forum. So it's really 50-50.
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Post by MaddieDove on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 12:11 pm

I doubt the part where Daisy seemed to push for Reylo and having specific wishes for that part of the movie. It doesn't go together with her January wonder about where the love's gone. (And we know what kind of love she referred to, lol.)
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Post by Geralt_Riv on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 12:53 pm

@vaderito wrote:@californiagirl

There are some things in that scoop that I knew about since Feb 2019. And some things that I knew about much earlier but that's not for public forum. So it's really 50-50.
@vaderito
Could you pm me what you know?
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 3:03 pm

I've just seen Disney are selling face masks with favourite character images on them.
In short, trying to make money from the pandemic.
How low can you sink?
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 3:34 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I've just seen Disney are selling face masks with favourite character images on them.
In short, trying to make money from the pandemic.
How low can you sink?
@motherofpearl1

I know Disney can be something else at times, yet here, I need to be Snopes lol. They are donating the profits for the face masks to MedShare

https://www.medshare.org/

"Charles Redding, CEO and president of MedShare, said in a statement that the donations will “make a tremendous impact in the communities we serve.”

“Their contribution of one million Disney cloth face masks will be provided to families in underserved communities and organizations working to limit the spread of COVID-19, while their monetary donation will be used to support the medical community’s ongoing efforts to provide lifesaving care to those who need it most,” Redding continued."

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/495531-disney-unveils-new-cloth-face-masks-to-donate-up-to-1-million

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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 3:40 pm

Well, at least they have some morals left.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 3:57 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Well, at least they have some morals left.
@motherofpearl1

I hear ya! It's my hope that the morals build due to reflection with many, many things (including TROS)

Morals is an issue with many all/companies - primarily Amazon now. It's definitely a positive to shine a light on them when moral BS occurs.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Thu 30 Apr 2020, 6:21 pm

There is a Twitter film event occurring with the hashtag #ArrayNow about diversity in film, and it was wonderful until I saw a tweet from Bad Robot

"Our friends at ARRAY have partnered with Twitter to connect over 50+ directors with film lovers using the hashtag #ARRAYNow. Join them to ask your favorite filmmakers questions!"

https://twitter.com/bad_robot/status/1255997046638534656

Which indicates TROS was not purposefully made to appeal to dudebros, yet it's painful that it seems that way (and how men are blind to this, and maybe why many in Hollywood are not scolding Bad Robot because they either feel supported in person OR they feel concerned about confronting them).

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Post by californiagirl on Fri 01 May 2020, 10:40 am

My timeline has gone nuts over the Rey Barbie, even the people who hated TROS. People did want Rey dolled up at some point.

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 Ew549k10

Apparently LF does think they have a female audience they want to keep. Despite the fact the recently announced May the 4th livestream looks to be all men, or at least who they put on the poster. But Leonard Maltin will be there, so that's quality at least.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 01 May 2020, 12:42 pm

@californiagirl

Do you know where the dolls are coming from? Is there a link? I’m not the best internet sleuth, but I haven’t found anything on Twitter or Google other than the pic. Are they coming out May 4th?
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 01 May 2020, 12:45 pm

@californiagirl wrote:My timeline has gone nuts over the Rey Barbie, even the people who hated TROS. People did want Rey dolled up at some point.

Official TROS Spoilers discussion - Page 4 Ew549k10

Apparently LF does think they have a female audience they want to keep. Despite the fact the recently announced May the 4th livestream looks to be all men, or at least who they put on the poster. But Leonard Maltin will be there, so that's quality at least.

Remember how not long ago we were comparing Rey to a Barbie doll....😆
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Post by vaderito on Fri 01 May 2020, 12:45 pm

I'm sorry but who are these dolls supposed to be? I don't recognize a single character/celebrity.
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Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 01 May 2020, 1:44 pm

Rey's far left but I haven't a clue about the others.
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Post by Geralt_Riv on Fri 01 May 2020, 3:36 pm

@vaderito wrote:I'm sorry but who are these dolls supposed to be? I don't recognize a single character/celebrity.
@vaderito
C3PO, Stormtrooper and Chewbacca? Laughing
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